Tapering Benzo withdrawal: Losing my mind

[Jabberwocky]

I think my favorite aspect of BL is that I can be 100 percent honest with no consequences. Its a shame I cant have that in real life. That's always been my dream when it comes to sexual relationships. I want someone I can tell my deepest thoughts and secrets too without being judged. Talk about a pipe dream lol.

Agreed!

There are lots of different types of relationships we have with people out there. I find it frustrating that I can't be 100% open with all the people I "should" be able to (like a therapist, for instance ), but whether it is good or bad it is kind of the nature of life. Until we find ourselves those outstandingly trustworthy, reliable, safe individuals to have a mentors, teachers, friends, therapists, doctors, and, ultimately, lovers, we have to be careful who we tell what.

That said, we need people we can be near 100% transparent with. That is also why I find BL so incredibly helpful. In all honesty I'm still working on learning to be fearlessly AND strategically honest, even with people I know I can be, so it's not like it is black or white. It is something we have to learn to do after having found people so unreliable that drug use become an attractive way to regulate our mood.

 

[cj]

Your right TPD I have found people to be unreliable in the past. Its started with my parents. Growing up they always used the "If you tell the truth we wont be mad" manipulation technique against me. Then when I told them the truth they would completely freak out and then use it against me the next time we argued about something similar. Then I had a couple of really bad friendships that ended with me getting my feelings hurt. I know part of that is my lack of boundaries with friends and family. I never really learned the ropes of having healthy relationships when I was young. It goes back to being molested for years by someone I called my "best friend". Now days I tend to hide my true self from people because I am scared of rejection and the hurt feelings it causes. Unfortunately that leads me to feeling very isolated and somewhat fraudulent.

The gabapentin has helped my anxiety tremendously. It makes me wonder how much I am feeling the withdrawal from gabapentin on top of the benzos. I had been taking the gabapentin daily for almost a year at fairly high doses. Where as I had only been dependent on the benzos for a month or 2. You know you have been doing too many drugs when you cant even figure out which one your withdrawing from the most. :/

 

[cj]

The gabapentin is really helping me. Thank god

 

[Moreaux]

That's great that you're feeling better! I don't think withdrawals from gabapenton are nearly as rough as benzos.

Interesting topic regarding honesty. I've gotten to the age where I'm 100% transparent with people close to me. I'm at an age where I don't really care how others view me, and the people who stayed with me through my addiction have already seen the worse. I noticed that lying about aspects of my life for fear of judgement was part of what lead me to addiction in the first place.

 

[cj]

I totally agree with you moreaux! When I am actively using I never tell anyone the full picture. I drop bits and pieces to different people while trying to downplay the severity of the problem I have. I lied to my therapist and doctor about the bEnzo problem for 2 months even when I started coming to sessions loaded and they point blank asked. I feel like that's a symptom of my disease, lying to protect my ability to get high. I did the same thing when the doctor screwed up and only partially canceled my bEnzo and gabapentin scripts. I think the honest answer is I am not ready for complete sobriety. I certainly have reservations about sobriety.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The gabapentin is really helping me. Thank god

I'm so glad to hear this. Yeah, when I was misusing my gabaergic meds, particularly the benzos, things went so downhill fast because they make it really, really hard to be aware of what you're doing in real time. Taking 400mg of diazepam at a time cultivates a mind state that is the polar opposite of mindful awareness

 

[cj]

I'm so glad to hear this. Yeah, when I was misusing my gabaergic meds, particularly the benzos, things went so downhill fast because they make it really, really hard to be aware of what you're doing in real time. Taking 400mg of diazepam at a time cultivates a mind state that is the polar opposite of mindful awareness

Yeah your right. Things that should have been major red flags didn't catch my attention like they should have. I found ways to justify taking more and more benzos until it was too late and there was no denying I was addicted.

 

[Jabberwocky]

We can easily should ourselves to death, so please go easy on yourself my dear friend

How are you taking care of yourself these days?

 

[cj]

I am sliding backwards at a scary pace. I ended up getting my kolonopin refilled a few days ago and I have been taking gabapentin almost everyday for more than a week now. I took 1mg of kpin on Monday with no noticeable side effects but it didn't bring me a lot of relief either. All this pressure is starting to make me think about suicide. Like I cant deal with not doing drugs the rest of my life. I am starting to contemplate getting back on heroin in order to stave off some of this anxiety I am feeling. At least heroin wont make me have seizures if I take it too often.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You can have seizures from a heroin overdose.

You've got to realize that man. Heroin isn't the answer.

 

[Moreaux]

cj - it's normal to have a significant increase in anxiety and apathy during the early phase of recovery, particularly from benzos. Also, because you already quit them for sometime tgeybare not going to offer the same kind of relief as they did before because stopping them the way you did caused your glutamate system to become hyperactive which does do some neurological damage :/ You're in a spiral right now and I promise you heroin is only going to make it worse, and it will put you right back to square one. Please take some time to consider if going back to using is really what you want to do...I know you are miserable now but consider how miserable you were then. If you can grin and bare the misery now, at least you know it's temporary and it will get better. If you go back to using you are extending the misery indefinitely.

Regarding suicidal feelings, those too are normal. Please don't act on them because this really is a temporary situation. When they pop into your mind try to distract yourself and move on to other thoughts - force yourself to do this. When I stopped Xanax I was miserable and suicidal for two years - you will not feel the way you do for nearly that long. Since the benzos aren't doing anything for you consider not taking them any longer.

Seriously try some Ashwagandha (in the mornings), and l-Theanine throughout the day. I've been taking 500mg of Ashwagandha every morning for a month, and 200mg of l-theanine 4 to 5 times a day and have very little anxiety, if any. Now it's only presenting itself when I wear nicotine patches. At some point you will be confronted with stopping again...do you really want to start all over? Also, there is also a chance the next withdrawal will be worse.

I know how much this sucks for you right now, but read through the posts you have made in Bluelight for the last few months. Consider where you have been and where you have gone - rationally you know this is temporary. Soberly consider what you are going to do moving forward because this can make or break you. When you read through your posts pay close attention to the posts where you were motivated and had hope - try to remember what you were feeling when you wrote those.

Big hugs!

 

[VastEmpty]

cj -

Well, the upside is that you KNOW you are sliding backwards. Now it's time to dig in and get moving forward, not backwards. I know it's easier said than done, but you have come so far these past few weeks and it would be heartbreaking to give that up.

Didnt you refill your benzos awhile ago and give them to someone to hold on to? Do that again if you can. Above all else, don't give up.

Hang in there, cj. Things will look better tomorrow.

- VE

 

[Jabberwocky]

cj -

Well, the upside is that you KNOW you are sliding backwards. Now it's time to dig in and get moving forward, not backwards. I know it's easier said than done, but you have come so far these past few weeks and it would be heartbreaking to give that up.

Didnt you refill your benzos awhile ago and give them to someone to hold on to? Do that again if you can. Above all else, don't give up.

Hang in there, cj. Things will look better tomorrow.

- VE

I second this advice. Getting someone to handle your benzo prescription for you and doll out a small ass dose you as needed is infinitely preferable to getting back on heroin. That would be a bit of a step backwards (but being told this doesn't help, you're intelligent enough to already know this even if you'd prefer not to believe it).

Keep your head up though. No matter what happens, just try your hardest to stay aware of what you are (or are not) doing. Let us know if we can do anything to help support you through these challenging times!

 

[cj]

Thanks for the support everyone. Nothing has changed from a drug or reality standpoint I just feel like shit. I have 14mg of kpin and 2mg of Xanax about 3 feet from me right now but I am terrified to take them. The glutamate brain damage Moreaux mentioned is really fucking with my head. Like how come an educated bluelighter knows that but a doctor at a hospital doesn't take it into consideration? I am pissed that those dumbasses didn't let me taper properly I had a legit prescription I tried to play by there rules and they still fucked me over. Its just heartbreaking. I really feel like I continuously get the shit end of the stick in life with little more then a shrug and half hearted apology. I know bitching about it wont change anything but I just want it on the record for prosperity. If someone ever looks through these posts when I am gone I want them to see the truth of what happened.

I feel like I am coming to the natural conclusion of a life filled with drugs. I have jacked my opiate tolerance through the roof. I damaged my brain so benzos don't work. I am too anxious to enjoy pot. I have taken phychedelics and ecstacy to the point of boredom. I guess I could still burn myself out with meth but that's never seemed appealing to me really. Friends I thought I would have forever have moved on without me. My family tolerates me but who wants a 28 year old unemployed burnout for a son? I dunno I just feel like things are coming to a close in my life. Maybe this is the natural conclusion for a person who never quite felt right in his own skin.

I might feel differently later but right now the hopelessness is firmly entrenched in my mind. I appreciate the kindness each of you has shown me. This site is the only place I have ever really felt accepted and loved. I cant tell you how awesome that feels. The feeling of belonging. I have never really had that in my offline life. Ehh I am sorry for the negativity you all deserve better. Im going to sleep hopefully I will wake up a different person.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Drugs aren't the answer man, you need to realize that methadone isn't working for you if you are craving heroin, and gabapentin wasn't working if you sought out benzodiazepines again.

You have to realize that drugs aren't working in your favor, and they're not going to. You can't count on them.

Have you considered tapering off methadone in-patient again recently? I think it would be in your best interest.

 

[VastEmpty]

Cj-

Don't apologize for using your thread to get this shit out. That's what we are here for! I'm just sorry it's so bleak right now. I do have a few questions, if you don't mind answering them (no worries if you do, I'll understand).

Whats a normal day like for you right now? What did you enjoy doing on the drugs you are craving? What did you enjoy doing without the drugs, or before them? I know you said you aren't artistic - I'm not either. Not even a itty-bitty bit. But I have a lot of passion for a few areas of my life - relationships (family and friends), reading, work, etc. I've been very lucky to have a job to throw myself into all these years. Have you been to college? Do you have any career plans you could work towards?

Sorry for the 20 questions. You certainly don't have to be specific if you want to answer at all. I hope you sleep well! I'm gonna go do the same. I hope.

- VE

 

[P0kemama]

cj: I am sorry you are going through a bad time. You are one of the people that make BL a safe and supportive place to post... I feel grateful for you, and also that you feel a sense of belonging here. Please know that I have no advice, I just can offer my support, compassion and sisterly love.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Drugs aren't the answer man, you need to realize that methadone isn't working for you if you are craving heroin, and gabapentin wasn't working if you sought out benzodiazepines again.

You have to realize that drugs aren't working in your favor, and they're not going to. You can't count on them.

Have you considered tapering off methadone in-patient again recently? I think it would be in your best interest.

I don't think cj getting off methadone is clearly a good (or bad) idea. For one thing, he will need to take a good long time taper off it to get off it properly. A properly taper will take a significant amount of time and planning, and frankly this probably isn't the ideal time to begin a taper with the chaos his neurochemistry is in thanks to the protracted benzo withdrawal that he's currently experiencing.

Beginning a really slow taper would certainly work, like 5mg a week until he hits 80mg then 1mg a week until he hits 20mg and reassessing (taking breaks from the taper as required). Eventually I think cj would really benefit from getting off the methadone, but first things first IMO.

Right now the priority should be dealing with the benzo withdrawal. Once he feels comfortable with where he's at with the benzos, perhaps that would be a better time to tackle the methadone.

Going inpatient to deal with the methadone right now would be a pretty rash plan, unless he wants to spend months in treatment that is. . . if he is at 120mg right now (I don't know what his current dosage is, but I think it's over 100mg), and goes down 5mg a week until he gets to 80mg (8 weeks) and then 1mg a week until he gets to 20mg (60 weeks) that is approaching 2 years. I wouldn't wish that amount of inpatient treatment on anyone.

 

[cj]

Drugs aren't the answer man, you need to realize that methadone isn't working for you if you are craving heroin, and gabapentin wasn't working if you sought out benzodiazepines again.

You have to realize that drugs aren't working in your favor, and they're not going to. You can't count on them.

Have you considered tapering off methadone in-patient again recently? I think it would be in your best interest.

The heroin thing is weird. I am not having cravings in the classic sense. Its more like I miss the feeling it used to give me when I was using it heavily. That feeling that nothing mattered beyond getting the next hit. Now that I am off of it I worry about so many other things. I guess I just miss how simplistic my life was when I was using. Its hard to describe but I am not having white knuckle cravings where its all I can do to not call my dealer and score. So in that respect the methadone is working very effectively. I don't have any plans on going to rehab. For starters my dose is pretty high 150mg so I would need 6 months of inpatient to even start feeling like a normal person. I cant afford that and I just hate inpatient to the point where that isn't going to happen. I do understand your perspective though.

Cj-

Don't apologize for using your thread to get this shit out. That's what we are here for! I'm just sorry it's so bleak right now. I do have a few questions, if you don't mind answering them (no worries if you do, I'll understand).

Whats a normal day like for you right now? What did you enjoy doing on the drugs you are craving? What did you enjoy doing without the drugs, or before them? I know you said you aren't artistic - I'm not either. Not even a itty-bitty bit. But I have a lot of passion for a few areas of my life - relationships (family and friends), reading, work, etc. I've been very lucky to have a job to throw myself into all these years. Have you been to college? Do you have any career plans you could work towards?

Sorry for the 20 questions. You certainly don't have to be specific if you want to answer at all. I hope you sleep well! I'm gonna go do the same. I hope.

- VE

I try to answer you to the best of my ability. A normal day for me starts with a trip to the clinic sometime before 10am it takes 2 hours round trip there and back. Once I get home I usually eat and spend the rest of the day surfing the net and watching Netflix/tv until I get tired enough to pass out later that night and do it all over again. Im unemployed and I don't have any hobbies to speak of outside BL. I also don't have any friends right now as I have grown away from them or we have had falling outs over various stupid issues. I tried to hold onto to my high school friendships for too long and I got burned. When I was functioning in society better I loved going to shows and doing drugs with my friends but that hasn't been happening for 2 years. I went to college for social work but never finished for various reasons. My dream is too become a harm reduction advocate but it seems to be slipping farther away from my grasp.

cj: I am sorry you are going through a bad time. You are one of the people that make BL a safe and supportive place to post... I feel grateful for you, and also that you feel a sense of belonging here. Please know that I have no advice, I just can offer my support, compassion and sisterly love.

Thank you! It really does mean a lot to me. I get a lot of pleasure out of trying to help people.

I don't think cj getting off methadone is clearly a good (or bad) idea. For one thing, he will need to take a good long time taper off it to get off it properly. A properly taper will take a significant amount of time and planning, and frankly this probably isn't the ideal time to begin a taper with the chaos his neurochemistry is in thanks to the protracted benzo withdrawal that he's currently experiencing.

Beginning a really slow taper would certainly work, like 5mg a week until he hits 80mg then 1mg a week until he hits 20mg and reassessing (taking breaks from the taper as required). Eventually I think cj would really benefit from getting off the methadone, but first things first IMO.

Right now the priority should be dealing with the benzo withdrawal. Once he feels comfortable with where he's at with the benzos, perhaps that would be a better time to tackle the methadone.

Going inpatient to deal with the methadone right now would be a pretty rash plan, unless he wants to spend months in treatment that is. . . if he is at 120mg right now (I don't know what his current dosage is, but I think it's over 100mg), and goes down 5mg a week until he gets to 80mg (8 weeks) and then 1mg a week until he gets to 20mg (60 weeks) that is approaching 2 years. I wouldn't wish that amount of inpatient treatment on anyone.

Yeah I am on 150mg of methadone. I would be open to a long slow taper but what is that going to really accomplish? It will just create another stressful situation for me to deal with. Before I got on methadone I was hopelessly addicted to heroin for 8 years. I haven't used heroin in over a year so I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I fucking hate inpatient rehab so there is no way I would subject myself to a year long program which I feel it would take for me too completely get through the worst of PAWS. Also I haven't found any rehab that is willing to do any methadone taper that isn't stop taking it right now today which is a recipe for relapse on heroin. Plus I cant ask my parents to shell out the kind of money that would cost on a wing and a prayer that I could be one of the 5 percent that are successful.

I decided to have a cheat day today with the benzos just to see what will happen. I have taken 2.5mg kpin and 1mg of Xanax on top of the normal methadone dose. I am feeling pretty good so far even though I should be more sloppy from such a big dose. I guess the truth will be how I feel tomorrow but I had to give it a shot.

Thanks to each of you for replying with your opinions. I have a lot to think about. One question I have though is if I didn't take a benzo for like 6 months will the glutamate system in my brain recover enough for me to be able to use benzos sparingly for anxiety?

As far as the methadone goes I need to tried lightly. When I think of tapering down my mind immediately jumps to hell yeah I could start shooting heroin again if it got it down low enough. Super unhealthy thoughts like that.

 

[Moreaux]

Thanks for the support everyone. Nothing has changed from a drug or reality standpoint I just feel like shit. I have 14mg of kpin and 2mg of Xanax about 3 feet from me right now but I am terrified to take them. The glutamate brain damage Moreaux mentioned is really fucking with my head. Like how come an educated bluelighter knows that but a doctor at a hospital doesn't take it into consideration? I am pissed that those dumbasses didn't let me taper properly I had a legit prescription I tried to play by there rules and they still fucked me over. Its just heartbreaking. I really feel like I continuously get the shit end of the stick in life with little more then a shrug and half hearted apology. I know bitching about it wont change anything but I just want it on the record for prosperity. If someone ever looks through these posts when I am gone I want them to see the truth of what happened.

I don't know why the medical community won't address this beyond withdrawal is bad. Rehabs cut people off benzos cold turkey without a second thought and then send them on their way after 30 days before the PAWS has had a chance to set in.

It is heartbreaking, and people who have been victims of this malpractice have no recourse. I've lost count of the number of benzo addicts I have known that have committed suicide because of the withdrawal. Some people lose years of their life to recovering, and it's absolutely devestating. I know I have lost friends, family, and a career to the effects of benzo withdrawal and it's so hard to reconcile. If I think about it too hard I get depressed because my memory and cognitive ability have been drastically diminished by benzos and withdrawal.

I've thought about starting a class action lawsuit against the pharmaceutical companies for not fully disclosing the reality of long term use, and also one against medical and rehab facilities that cut patients off cold turkey because they do know the repercussions. Benzos have been around for over fifty years, and yet they still will not acknowledge the consequences. Haven't done it because I don't even know where to begin with that and I feel like I wouldn't be taken seriously because I was an addict.

One question I have though is if I didn't take a benzo for like 6 months will the glutamate system in my brain recover enough for me to be able to use benzos sparingly for anxiety?

I'm not certain. Yes, the glutamate issue should be resolved by then but the neurological damage done by the overactivity will most likely not be fully healed. That is part of the reason why they kindle, and the effects tend to be cumulative thus making each withdrawal worse than the previous withdrawal.

Some people who have gotten off of them and go back to them say that they do work again, some say they don't work as well. I think it depends on the length of time you were on them and the amount of damage done during withdrawal, and also how long you took a break from them before starting back on them. I do know that if you start taking them soon after stopping them, within one or two months, the second withdrawal will be substantially worse if you don't do a taper as you are just stacking damage. Sorry I don't have a concrete answer for you :/

I hope you are doing better today.