Benzos Benzo wd right after sub wds and could use some help

[OCD2DOC]

I have taken pregabalin for a month in daily dose of 200mg,when quitting valium.Succeed than to quit benzo and after stopping to take pregabaline feel absolutely no withdrawl

I have heard this about pregabline. With all the stories I have heard about people greatly lowering their benzo wds, I think it should be considered by anyone getting ready to embark on a benzo wd journey.
I've heard it has pretty nasty wds if you do get dependent on it, tho. If you didn't get wds after a month of using then that is pretty encouraging.
Especially given the fact it took out your wds.

My luck I would get addicted to the Pregabaline 8).
Since I am doing ok except for mornings I will probably will just ride this out with the gabapentin. It has worked really well for me thus far.

I used to have some Lyrica stashed away, but for the life of me I can't find it.
I even remember seeing the bottle with the name on it.
It was from the manufacturer. My grandmother had it prescribed, but she didn't want to take it for some reason.
I guarantee I will find it after I am done wd'ing

 

[OCD2DOC]

No tea will make you sleep during BZD withdrawal

Kava kava won't either but it will make you less of a basket case

Only thing that got me to sleep was...yep...benzos and possibly a FAT fucking shot of Haloperidol...

I did a suboxone wd at the same time I started this benzo taper.
The benzos were knockiing me out, but just for like 30 minutes and I would wake up with super duper uber anxiety.
But yeah, real sleep is something you can forget about when your in the thick of suboxone or benzo wd.
I did finally start getting more than 2-3 hours when I started the gabapentin.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

No tea will make you sleep during BZD withdrawal

Kava kava won't either but it will make you less of a basket case

Only thing that got me to sleep was...yep...benzos and possibly a FAT fucking shot of Haloperidol...

Speak for yourself. I got one person on here to get sleep during benzo withdrawal by telling them to try high dose chamomile.
Apigenin does bind to gaba A receptors, without all the side effects of benzos, so why would it at least not be worth the try if some one is in that serious of withdrawal?

"Apigenin competitively binds to the benzodiazepine binding site of the GABA type A receptor, has clear anxiolytic activity in mice when administered intraperitoneally, without showing evidence of sedation or muscle relaxant effects at doses similar to those used for classical benzodiazepines and no anticonvulsant ."

Flavonoids as GABAA receptor ligands: the whole story?

Benzodiazepines are the most widely prescribed class of psychoactive drugs in current therapeutic use, despite the important unwanted side effects that they produce, such as sedation, myorelaxation, ataxia, amnesia, and ethanol and barbiturate potentiation ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I've taken benzos off and on, some times for days or weeks at a time for 15 years and have never experienced any benzo withdrawal.
So everyone is different obviously.

 

[JackARoe]

"Apigenin competitively binds to the benzodiazepine binding site of the GABA type A receptor, has clear anxiolytic activity in mice when administered intraperitoneally, without showing evidence of sedation or muscle relaxant effects at doses similar to those used for classical benzodiazepines and no anticonvulsant ."

I have often said on the forum that chamomile will be more relevant in medicine. The time I grew my own and made tea from a handful of fresh chamomile had much stronger effects than the older tea bags you can buy. It is worth a try, I wish more would try that and see. So I think freshness is key for these effects. I also believe we will make a stronger version of this in time.

Mulungu and fresh chamomile are underrated. Mulungu, a nice handful simmered is fairly strong. I think that will also will become more relevant.

Not sure however if they will hold over benzo withdrawal or start a healing. I mean poppy could ease heroin withdrawal but cause an addiction too. But I think chamomile, at least the kind we can get in a store is light enough. But grow your own and make a strong tea and tell me I am not crazy.

Glad you are doing well OP. Your thread is full of good info. Also it shows how strong some of you are to muscle through benzo withdrawal. We can't tell how bad it is when you type so clear and concise. But thanks for the updates. Updates are the pinnacle of BL. Nothing worse than someone saying "hey I am going to take this and that" and they never come back to update us and we never know.

I do believe the body heals in any fashion. I mean we are not even the same cells we were a few years ago. I do believe a person will heal if they take care of themselves. I never really buy it when someone says permanent, although I will say the ability to get readdicted quicker probably is permanent with certain substances including benzos. But healing will happen. And as you posted OP you can feel the healing daily. Keep going and stay well.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I have often said on the forum that chamomile will be more relevant in medicine. The time I grew my own and made tea from a handful of fresh chamomile had much stronger effects than the older tea bags you can buy. It is worth a try, I wish more would try that and see. So I think freshness is key for these effects. I also believe we will make a stronger version of this in time.

Mulungu and fresh chamomile are underrated. Mulungu, a nice handful simmered is fairly strong. I think that will also will become more relevant.

Not sure however if they will hold over benzo withdrawal or start a healing. I mean poppy could ease heroin withdrawal but cause an addiction too. But I think chamomile, at least the kind we can get in a store is light enough. But grow your own and make a strong tea and tell me I am not crazy.

Glad you are doing well OP. Your thread is full of good info. Also it shows how strong some of you are to muscle through benzo withdrawal. We can't tell how bad it is when you type so clear and concise. But thanks for the updates. Updates are the pinnacle of BL. Nothing worse than someone saying "hey I am going to take this and that" and they never come back to update us and we never know.

I do believe the body heals in any fashion. I mean we are not even the same cells we were a few years ago. I do believe a person will heal if they take care of themselves. I never really buy it when someone says permanent, although I will say the ability to get readdicted quicker probably is permanent with certain substances including benzos. But healing will happen. And as you posted OP you can feel the healing daily. Keep going and stay well.

My partner comes from a weird German colony called the hutterites.
And they grow chamomile there & he often brings some back from them.

People really underestimate chamomile. Of course it's not going to feel exactly like a benzo or like a euphoric drug (actually I have had a few euphoric experiences from chamomile), but a strong enough tea could theoretically & anecdotally help some one in benzo withdrawal.

It'll be interesting to see if they synth or created anything new out of apigenin.

 

[OCD2DOC]

Glad you are doing well OP. Your thread is full of good info. Also it shows how strong some of you are to muscle through benzo withdrawal. We can't tell how bad it is when you type so clear and concise. But thanks for the updates. Updates are the pinnacle of BL. Nothing worse than someone saying "hey I am going to take this and that" and they never come back to update us and we never know.

I'm hanging in there, but I guess I don't really have a choice at this point, eh?
I appreciate the reply and thoughts on the chamomile tea.
I am going to pick some up this weekend at the store and give it a go.

I guess I need to do an update since it's been a couple of days.
I believe I'm around the 12 day mark now. ( for anyone keeping score I did a 2 week taper from 2 mg after a 3 year habit and started at the same time I was kicking subs)
Yesterday I felt pretty good and got a lot done, but today I have been completely assaulted by wds.
It's crazy how these benzo wds seem to follow a Jekyll/Hyde type pattern.
Definitely from one day to the next, but even from the early part of the day to the evening I notice a night and day difference. I generally start noticing improvement by 1-2 in afternoon. Up until then I am mostly a space cadet.

I got a good amount of sleep last night, but this morning I woke up with an excruciating migraine and pretty intense neck soreness. The headache started in my neck and wrapped around to my eye. It was utterly debilitating. I couldn't move off the couch or I would start spinning/get nauseous, and I had to pull the shades because any light felt like what I imagine a vampire most likely would experience in the early a.m. after a long night of vampin' .

I ended up taking about 250-300 mg of gabapentin this morning ( I went another 48 hours without so I gave myself another break), and after a couple rounds of excedrin migraine I was finally able to sit up and move around.
On my bad days this is usually how it goes. Sit around wrecked for half a day, and then feel halfway ok for the rest the evening. I am definitely grateful to get the breaks, but its tough because you really can't plan anything due to the fact you don't know how you will feel from one day to the next.

I'm definitely curious to hear about protracted wds from anyone who has successfully made it out of benzo wds. Everyone seems to have a slightly different experience, but maybe there is a pattern to be recognized.

Anywho, I will continue to soldier on and report back until I make it out of this benzo blackhole I've gotten myself in.8)
I definitely hope this thread benefits someone in the future. It for sure has helped me, so the correspondence definitely won't end up being all for naught.

I'm trying to be as straightforward as I can. I don't want to discourage anyone, but I for sure don't want to mislead anyone about the how long and intense the benzo wd symptoms are.

 

[OCD2DOC]

^ Oh, I left out a symptom, and that is fatigue. Not sure how I forgot this as it has been rather noticeable. It's usually just early in the morning or late at night, but if I wake up in middle of night and have to get up it's like I am fighting against 5 x force of gravity to walk.
Thankfully it wears off pretty quick in the early afternoon, but until then I ain't doing much.

 

[JackARoe]

I'm hanging in there, but I guess I don't really have a choice at this point, eh

Don't sell yourself short, you could always say screw it and stay on benzos. A lot of people do that. Trust me, you going through that and adding to the momentum of the next person that wrestles through it. One person trailblazing adds to that momentum. I am impressed. So that energy that you are putting out there someone else can read at BL and muscle through themselves. Momentum and I do believe it is transferable if a person wants to give it a shot and recover themselves.

I guess I am fascinated that a drug that does not do much for me can have such a horrible withdrawal.

 

[OCD2DOC]

Don't sell yourself short, you could always say screw it and stay on benzos.

I guees in actuality I could, but at this point in my mind it's not an option.
I began to have too many side effects from the suboxone and the xanax to go back on either at this point.
The xanax sides were the most recognizable, tho.

They say when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired you'll do something about you situation/problem. I've reached critical mass in regards.

A lot of people do that. Trust me, you going through that and adding to the momentum of the next person that wrestles through it. One person trailblazing adds to that momentum. I am impressed. So that energy that you are putting out there someone else can read at BL and muscle through themselves. Momentum and I do believe it is transferable if a person wants to give it a shot and recover themselves.

I definitely have benefited from the folks that have had the unfortunate experience to suffer through benzo wds, so I just feel it necessary at this point to follow suit with my little benzo plight.

Today I'm just shy of two weeks, and I don't feel all that bad relatively speaking.
For sure not out of the woods, but seems I might be entering into the next phase of the wd process ( protracted wds).
I can see this being a bit of a war of attrition as far as the waves of wds.
Especially in the mornings.
Having said that, I would rather do this for weeks or even months than go back on benzos. It might be more misery up front, but the ends justify the means, IMO.
Definitely less temporary misery to go back on the benzos, but intuitively I know the long term suffering would be far greater.

I guess I am fascinated that a drug that does not do much for me can have such a horrible withdrawal.

I can definitely relate to that. Kinda weird situation for me, I can relate to those that don't like benzos and those that do. I don't really like benzos unless they are in concert with an opioid/opiate. The combo of the two make a new hybrid drug for me.
Only problem is the amalgamation also creates some novel side effects for me.

I had some good times and the subs and xanax got me by at a point in my life that I needed them, but I don't feel I need them anymore.
I don't necessarily have any real regrets. I always knew the piper had to be paid, so I'm not stressing too much over giving him his due.

Appreciate the reply!

 

[OCD2DOC]

Update: Day 32 off suboxone and day 16 off benzo.

I'm not doing too bad all things being considered.
Mornings still a bit challenging, but I'm not gutanteed a wd episode every morning like the first couple of weeks. Last two days I just had mild benzo wds in the morning and definitely got better after I got up and out. Today I feel ok.
I'd say sub wd sides down to 10% and the benzo wds holding steady at around 30% ( mainly confined to the mornings).

I think getting up and getting moving in the mornings is going to be the key to this benzo recovery. Getting on with life and not letting these waves keep me chained to my couch is the challenge.
125% feel better if I can get out and find something physical to do.
Thankfully I have two houses to take care of, so I can work outside in the yard pretty much daily. Tilled up a spot for a garden yesterday. I'm still 50/50 if I want to fool with a garden this year, but it's probably something I need to do to keep me busy and outside.
Weather changes moods as the old Nirvana song goes.8)
I'm not sure I could pick a better time to be coming out of the fog of wds than the Springtime.

Again wanted to say thanks for the support from everyone that contributes on this site.
I've always found this site to be the place to get the straight dope so to speak.
I tried another site that has a very large benzo support group, and I didn't really care for it.
I'm not trying to dispair or diminish anyone's story/experience, it's just I found there to be a tendency to dwell on the symptoms; and I'm more focused on the times when I feel good.

But that's probably a me thing, and I know different people cope with stress differently.
I guess it doesn't matter how you recover so as long as you in fact do recover.

Peace and Respect!

 

[Nas47]

Keep on in that spirit man!Peace

 

[OCD2DOC]

Keep on in that spirit man!Peace

Thanks, friend. I definitely have kept a positive attitude this go around.
It's something I haven't necessarily been able to in the past.
I'm not sure you can necessarily control this entirely.
I mean so many things go into your mood and state of mind.
I think what has helped me in this area is I made sure I wasn't going to have tons of life pressures closing in on me as I healed. I spent like a year getting all my ducks in a row and making sure I wasn't setting myself up for failure.

Been another couple days since I updated ( 3 when I get up tmrrrw morning)
Some improvement since my last post, but the fatigue and morning mild psychosis remains.
A buddy of mine was checking on me today and asked me how I was doing.
He has never been through benzo wd so I had to give him a fitness analogy so he could relate.
I told him if opiate wd ( like herion) is like working out really hard and then you're sore for like 2-3 days, and opiod wd ( like suboxone) is like doing basic training and having to break your body down over 6 weeks, then xanax wds is most likely going to end up being like a running a marathon....running a marathon race after dropping a 1-2 hits of acid that is.
Not a perfect analogy, but he got the point.

From the rate of improvement I estimate it's going to be about 50 days before I am feeling better ( based solely on I feel I am improving 1 to 2 % a day).
Fortunately, I feel like I am out of the immediate woods, but unfortunately looks like came out in time to find there is still a river, field, and small mountain I have to cross before I am home.

 

[Nas47]

Keep on.To be chemically free is great.as to my benzo got to lower and took take it.can get prescription.all other is big questionmark.the future day-also

 

[OCD2DOC]

Keep on.To be chemically free is great.as to my benzo got to lower and took take it.can get prescription.all other is big questionmark.the future day-also

Thx Nas47, I genuinely appreciate the support.
I wasn't sure I was going to be able to push through the first few days, but discovering I had the gabapentin felt too much like fate to turn back.
It really was godsend. You would do yourself a big favor to aquire some for when you kick.

Lowering your dose over time and/or switching to a longer lasting benzo like valium no doubt would have been the better way to go. I highly suggest you go this route if you are able to.

I'm not doing that bad though, but I bet if I would have done a proper benzo taper I wouldn't have suffered as much. It's been a weird detox. I mean I was still recovering from the subs when I jumped off the xanax. Not sure how much that affected me.
I do know my CNS was like, " wtf are you doing, man" lol.
My nervous system is actually still wondering what is going on in the mornings when my body realeases chemicals for me to start the day. Wears off by early afternoon, so I guess things could be worse.

You'll get there for sure when you are ready/able. It took me a long time to get to the point where I was ready. Like I said before, I'm not down on myself for using the benzos.
Likewise, I'm not anti-benzo per se, it's just for whatever reason the xanax turned on me.
The side effects literally became as bad as the intiial reason I went on the benzos.
A true catch-22 I got myself into.

But yeah, in my experience benzo wd is doable. If I was you I wouldn't expect the worse. Most likely if you are smart about it you'll start feeling somewhat better after a couple weeks or so. I mean I was dumb about it, and I still got some relief as I started approaching the 2 week mark.
Best of luck to you, and thanks again for checking in on me.

 

[OCD2DOC]

Starting 4th week of benzo wd. I had a pretty rough weekend as far as symptoms.
I no longer have to wonder what people mean by " windows and waves".
These benzo wds are truly two steps forward and one step back.
For sure not a linear progression in regards.
I am getting good sleep ( which I am very grateful for), but no matter how much I rest I still wake up in mild to medium wds almost everyday.

Taking it all in stride, tho. I have faith my nervous system is healing and trying to return to normal. Similar to a broken bone, it's not going to get better overnight.
With all major injures/stresses the healing process is going to bring periods of pain along with it.

On a positive note, I do still continue to feel better in the evenings. This has been basically constant throughout ( albeit, some days it's not until late evening)
I'll try to keep an update on this thread. It'll probably be weekly at this point, and that's mainly for documentation purposes.
I'm switching my progression meter to bi-weekly, tho. That's probably the most realistic thing to do.

Hope my experience doesn't give anyone looking down the barrel of benzo wds pause.
The wds still haven't been so bad I would consider going back on benzos.
Definitely not fun, but like I've said a few times now they are doable.
Keep in mind your mileage may vary.
I did a rapid taper/pretty fast jump immediately after suboxone wds started to let up ( btw, definitely avoid doing this combo).
If one was to take things slower it will hopefully save them some pain.

 

[Xorkoth]

You're doing great, it's very impressive that you're getting off both suboxone and benzos at about the same time. You've made it far enough that you should be in the home stretch of acute withdrawal. Once you're past the acute stage, you will face a long road to feeling 100% again, but for that part, I find that working out daily is an absolute godsend.

Watch out for the gabapentin, too, as it is addictive. But most people say it's pretty easy to taper down compared to benzos and opiates. You might end up needing to taper it and get off of it, too. Not saying you definitely will, just keep that in mind.

 

[JackARoe]

I agree with Xorkoth. Very impressive OCD2DOC. You can power a city on your determination. Not everybody has that. So thanks for documenting here at BL too. There are a lot of posts where someone starts tapering and then we hear nothing. But this post will help others in the same situation. I particularly get sad when I see someone trying to get off a monster benzo habit and ends up in the Shrine. But this is a good example of taking the bull by the horns.

Interesting how the benzo withdrawal sneak back at times even after so many weeks later. I mean opiate withdrawal sucks, but it's saving grace is no matter the opiate if someone abstains for a full month they will feel much better at the end of the month, whether methadone, heroin or any other opiate. I have never had bupe, so I can't comment but willing to bet at least 6 weeks after stopping a person balances out. At least there is that knowing with opiates. As I see some people have lingering physical symptoms for longer with benzos and not as linear.

Growing up I am glad I did not have the internet when I was using heroin and methadone. The term PAWS did not exist and to be honest I never suffered from it. I always felt great when I beat a habit and usually gave myself a vacation about 2 months out and felt great. I hope you feel great in another month OP. You deserve it. And I believe you will. Maybe if you let the benzo dependency go for another few years it would be that much harder. Yet even at 3 years I do not want to experience what you type. But yeah, I am impressed.

Also I notice you take very small amounts of gabapentin. 100 mgs is nothing. For opiate withdrawal using 1800-2100 (and others a LOT more) is common. So keep that low and you should be ok.

 

[OCD2DOC]

You're doing great, it's very impressive that you're getting off both suboxone and benzos at about the same time. You've made it far enough that you should be in the home stretch of acute withdrawal. Once you're past the acute stage, you will face a long road to feeling 100% again, but for that part, I find that working out daily is an absolute godsend.

Watch out for the gabapentin, too, as it is addictive. But most people say it's pretty easy to taper down compared to benzos and opiates. You might end up needing to taper it and get off of it, too. Not saying you definitely will, just keep that in mind.

Thanks, and I appeciate the encouragement.
I've read a bunch of the benzo archives, and I've seen you help and encourage others as well.
I'm trying to document my story in hopes it will encourage someone else is a similar boat.
Don't feel right taking help and not leaving any.

But yeah, I'm out of the acute part I believe. I've read as you heal you will have waves like this. I'm just looking forward to finish ridding any stored toxins and my GABA receptors to return to a normal state/ number. I agree with you tho, the road to normalcy is almost assuredly going to be a long one.
I've actually seen a number of people say they can deal with anxiety better after they recovered from benzo wd. Honestly, I can see that. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger an all that.

I'm definitely in no trouble with the gabapentin ( sincerely appreciate the warning as I know it can be addictive).
I've only took it maybe 8 times in last 3 weeks. I took it for I think 5 days straight in the first few days to cushion wds and avoid seizures. I started with 600 mg and tapered to @100mg.
After that, I went 48 hours a couple times before taking a small dose( 200 mg maybe). From there I went almost a week before taking another small dose.
I had some crazy muscle twitching today in my left calf and could feel general electricity flowing in my body, so I took about 300 mg for the first time since that dose last week.
The gaba is nice for stopping the nervous system from just randomly firing.
It's great for times when you just need a break or to quail a particularly annoying symptom.

My goal is to stay pharmaceutical free for as long as I can. I'm not on any prescribed meds at the moment. First time I can say that in a long time.
I went 3 years clean a few years back after a decade of being hooked on opiates, but that was like going on 4 years ago now. Only a few years, but seems like a lifetime ago.

 

[OCD2DOC]

I agree with Xorkoth. Very impressive OCD2DOC. You can power a city on your determination. Not everybody has that. So thanks for documenting here at BL too. There are a lot of posts where someone starts tapering and then we hear nothing. But this post will help others in the same situation. I particularly get sad when I see someone trying to get off a monster benzo habit and ends up in the Shrine. But this is a good example of taking the bull by the horns.

Thanks, JackARoe. I've noticed your encouraging folks as I read old archives, too.
All you guys and gals that spend time helping others out here deserve a medal.
I've seen in different posts where you echo the sentiment we need more success stories posted. Hopefully my experience will be one.

I'm for sure not short on determination this go around. Failure is just not an option.
I've always been that way when I make my mind up about something.
It probably stems from my obsessive personality. Rarely does it work out to be a good thing (case and point doing sub and benzo wds same time 8)), but every once and blue moon I will stumble on beneficial rituals.

Interesting how the benzo withdrawal sneak back at times even after so many weeks later. I mean opiate withdrawal sucks, but it's saving grace is no matter the opiate if someone abstains for a full month they will feel much better at the end of the month, whether methadone, heroin or any other opiate. I have never had bupe, so I can't comment but willing to bet at least 6 weeks after stopping a person balances out. At least there is that knowing with opiates. As I see some people have lingering physical symptoms for longer with benzos and not as linear.

Benzo wds from my experience so far is very monotonic. Makes it real hard to judge progress. I've quit marking days off the calendar. I've accepted the fact this is going to be a war of attrition. I'm just trying to focus on the times when the symptoms are diminished.
It's crazy tho how I feel like two different people from morning time to evening time.
Definitely not scschizophrenic, but I sure can see where this could ( and does) manifest in some.

Growing up I am glad I did not have the internet when I was using heroin and methadone. The term PAWS did not exist and to be honest I never suffered from it. I always felt great when I beat a habit and usually gave myself a vacation about 2 months out and felt great. I hope you feel great in another month OP. You deserve it. And I believe you will. Maybe if you let the benzo dependency go for another few years it would be that much harder. Yet even at 3 years I do not want to experience what you type. But yeah, I am impressed.

To tell you the truth it was a matter of never feeling good/right on the benzos that made my decision to quit so easy. Your basic sick and tired of being sick and tired and decided things couldn't get much worse. Well actually, they can and did, but I'm willing to trade some temporary suffering for long term happiness.
There's been days in this wd that I felt better mentally and physically than the bad days on the sub and xanax. That's the type of thing that gives me hope when the harder symptoms hit.

Also I notice you take very small amounts of gabapentin. 100 mgs is nothing. For opiate withdrawal using 1800-2100 (and others a LOT more) is common. So keep that low and you should be ok.

Yeah, started at 600 mg and it did the trick, so I figured why up it.
I'm definitely not looking to get another habit. Shout out to all those that recommend the gaba and warned about how sucky the wds from it can be.
That advice definitely has saved me some suffering.

 

[OCD2DOC]

Well, it's been another week and I feel absolutely amazing!!
......is what I wish I was saying

All teasing aside, I am hanging in there. I got wrecked by waves all last weekend and 2-3 days this week. I had a nice window this weekend where I almost felt human again only to be reminded today that I'm still a benzo wd zombie.
It was pretty amazing to string two days of feeling mostly ok together, though.

Symptoms now are crazy restless legs/body for few hours a day, calf spasm in one leg, burning sensation in feet (had this after md wds and lasted until I healed, hoping I'm fortunate this go around), couple nights of insomnia, very mild psychosis for hour or two in morning and before bed, pretty strong agitation at times that causes me to get pissed off easy, light sensitivity in morning, super sensitive to loud or sudden noises, fatigue, and can't forget the good ole tinnitus.
Those are the main ones, anyway.

The wds tend to wax and wane. Very much true to what I read they would do.
I am getting ready to start week 5, and I've read a lot of people see some improvement in between weeks 5 and 8/9. Fingers crossed. I do feel like I'm healing despite the wd symptoms hanging around.
I continue to eat like a monk and stay busy as I can.
Working outside is giving all the exercise I can handle.
I'll report back end of next weekend with how week 5 went.