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Aus - Teenager Nick Mitchell's LSD overdose - death, delusions and despair

12 to 14 hour trip? Huh? I've never tripped that long on LSD...
 
LuGoJ said:
12 to 14 hour trip? Huh? I've never tripped that long on LSD...
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Yeah by 11 or almost 12 hrs you should be coming down, and not tripping for hours more. It sounds like it was not LSD but a research chem. I feel bad for this guy and his family.
 
pmoseman said:
Those 8 people who snorted lines of LSD, one of their trips (at least) reportedly lasted 12 hours.

Plenty of people have died from LSD.
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Have they? From the direct result of an OD from the drug? Not from something they did whilst on the drug (like jumping from height or being run over or a car crash etc)? How many? (approx)

Who snorts LSD? What kind of LSD is that? From my 20 odd years of doing LSD I have only seen in in blotter form and also microdots. I have heard of liquid form, that is apparently sometimes dropped onto sugar cubes and eaten or sucked.

Does LSD come in a powder? If so, I've never seen it or had it in my 20 odd year tripping experience.
 
Whole thing is absurd. So much idiocy in the article being quoted here I'm not even going to try and address it. The kids got an RC which was sold to them as LSD (probably nBOME or what the fuck ever, it's killed a few people lately, but it could be one of the DO*, which are always around) but is orders of magnitude more dangerous, one died, the other flipped out and got hurt, and now everyone is screaming for the exact thing that caused this tragedy (more drug control).

These kids are direct victims of prohibition, nothing less.
 
Yeah that's pretty much what I think.

This case also happened around 1.5 yrs ago and I dont think nbomes were actually illegal then? I may be wrong.
 
Thousands I presume, from taking the drug aka "cause of death". LSD is a solid, they chopped it up and snorted it.
 
Put simply, LSD does not cause death at recreational or therapeutic doses (less than 500 ug / 0.5 mg). An increase in news articles in 2012/2013 suggesting deaths related to LSD are almost all related to 25I-NBOMe and 25C-NBOMe, two new chemicals, available on blotter, but completely different from LSD. While there are substantial reasons why users should be cautious about LSD use (see LSD Health), death is not a major risk.

Less than a handful of human deaths have been tied in the medical literature to the pharmacological effects of LSD, and none of these deaths have been unquestionably attributable to LSD's actions. The clearest case was documented by Fysh et al. in 1985; however, they fail to explain the circumstances of the death, only discussing the toxicological assessment, casting some doubt that the only explanation for the death was LSD.
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Pharmacological fatalities are those deaths caused by the direct action of a plant or drug in the body, not including deaths caused by accidents or as a result of inebriated behavior. Generally, LSD is considered to have a very low risk of death. As Haddad and Winchester stated in 1990, "No well-documented human deaths resulting directly from the toxic effects of LSD itself have occurred, though LSD has been implicated in accidental deaths, suicides, and homicides."1 And in Psychedelics Encyclopedia, Peter Stafford summarizes:

For those concerned about immediate medical hazards in ingesting LSD [...] Abram Hoffer has estimated, on the basis of animal studies, that the half-lethal human dose--meaning half would die (a standard measure for drugs)--would be about 14,000 [ug]. But one person who took 40 mg. (40,000 [ug]) survived. In the only case of death reportedly caused by overdose ([Griggs and Ward, 1977]), the quantity of LSD in the blood indicated that 320 mg. (320,000 [ug]) had been injected intravenously.2

Possible Pharmacological Fatalities
Though LSD can result in increased body temperature and vasoconstriction at high doses, there are less than a handful of documented deaths or near-fatal medical cases relating to the pharmacological action of LSD in humans. None of these include enough documentation to prove unquestionably that LSD has, by itself, resulted in a person's death. Below are the best documented possible pharmacological fatalities that we have been able to find attributed to LSD.
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https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_death.shtml

Chopped it up and snorted it? That must be rare, I've never heard of it being used that way, it's eaten nearly all the time in my experiences -

Blotter
The most common form of LSD is paper blotter divided into about 1/4" squares called tabs. A single tab usually contains between 30 - 100 ug of LSD. Paper blotters are created by taking a sheet of absorbant paper (usually decorated and perforated) and soaking it in a dilution of lysergic acid diethylamide. The dilution can vary greatly from one batch to another, or one chemist to another. Because of the method used to make blotter tabs, there is no practical way to know the exact dosage of a particular tab without either trying it or knowing the chemist. Adjacent tabs on a sheet will usually contain very similar levels of LSD. Because a blotter tab is so small, only extremely potent chemicals such as LSD can fit at active levels. See the Strychnine myth.

[Caution: As of 2013, the potent NBOMe compounds appear to be supplanting LSD on a significant portion of acid-style blotter, sometimes misrepresented as LSD by dealers.

Liquid
LSD is soluble in water and other solvents, though liquid LSD is usually dissolved in ethyl (drinking) alcohol or in water. Liquid LSD is used in the creation of blotter tabs. A single drop of potent liquid LSD could be 50 times a normal dose, although it is generally diluted to the point where a single drop is equal to approximately one dose. This varies greatly from batch to batch, and is sometimes a weak dose while othertimes a very strong dose. Liquid LSD is somewhat uncommon. Be extremely careful when dealing with it as there is no way for the average person to gauge its potency. It is frequently stored in small dropper bottles. Caution: when one reaches the end of the bottle, one should not rinse it out and assume that what remains is a small dose. There can still be many doses left along the inside surfaces and taking them all at once can lead to some unexpectedly strong and possibly very uncomfortable experiences.

Gelatin
Also known as "window panes". Gelatin LSD is made by mixing liquid LSD with gelatin and forming it into small, thin squares. The benefit of this method is that less of the LSD is exposed to sun and air which break down lysergic acid diethylamide. A single square of gelatin is commonly stronger than a single blotter tab of LSD. (Rough estimate 50 - 150 ug per square).
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LSD
Generic name for the hallucinogen lysergic acid
diethylamide-25. Discovered by Dr. Albert Hofmann in 1938, LSD is one
of the most potent mind-altering chemicals known. A white, odorless
powder usually taken orally, its effects are highly variable and begin
within one hour and generally last 8-12 hours, gradually tapering off.
It has been used experimentally in the treatment of alcoholics and
psychiatric patients. [Where it showed some success.] It
significantly alters perception, mood, and
psychological processes, and can impair motor coordination and skills.
During the 1950s and early 1960s, LSD experimentation was legally
conducted by psychiatrists and others in the health and mental health
professions. Sometimes dramatic, unpleasant psychological reactions
occur, including panic, great confusion, and anxiety. Strongly
affected by SET and SETTING. Classification: hallucinogens. Slang
names: acid, sugar. See also appendix B. (RIS 27:211-52 entries)

-- Research Issues 26, Guide to Drug Abuse Research Terminology,
available from NIDA or the GPO, page 54.
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^ That says white odorless powder, but I have never seen it sold as a powder, but that doesnt mean it isnt or hasnt been, maybe people do snort it and I've just never seen or heard of it...I'm happy to be wrong, I think the general way to use it is to eat tho from my experiences with it.
 
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^ it's a well known story, but your refusal to offer details, references - or anything but unsubstantiated claims - serves to do nothing but derail the thread, pmoseman.
Without evidence, your claims are just inflammatory trolling.

The people you speak of took the equivalent of 1000s of doses (perhaps tens of thousands, I cannot recall the details) - of crystalline LSD - yet they lived, and suffered no lasting harm.

Besides cannabis, there is no psychoactive drug with a safety profile that comes close to that; the acute toxicity of alcohol, nicotine, paracetamol/acetaminophen, cocaine - almost every other drug would unquestionably kill in these doses.

Stop deliberately spreading false information.

This (old) news story falsely attributes the death to LSD, as it was written before the mainstream media had become aware of the various NBOMe drugs and so forth that have been sold as acid (on blotter) and caused serious problems and fatalities.

You are being disingenuous - to put it kindly.
 
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spacejunk said:
^ it's a well known story, but your refusal to offer details, references - or anything but unsubstantiated claims - serves to do nothing but derail the thread, pmoseman.
Without evidence, your claims are just inflammatory trolling.

The people you speak of took the equivalent of 1000s of doses (perhaps tens of thousands, I cannot recall the details) - of crystalline - yet they lived, and suffered no lasting harm.

Besides cannabis, there is no psychoactive drug with a safety profile that comes close to that; the acute toxicity of alcohol, nicotine, paracetamol/acetaminophen, cocaine - almost every other drug would unquestionably kill in these doses.

Stop deliberately spreading false information.

This (old) news story falsely attributes the death to LSD, as it was written before the mainstream media had become aware of the various NBOMe drugs and so forth that have been sold as acid (on blotter) and caused serious problems and fatalities.

You are being disingenuous - to put it kindly.
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No. People would certainly live at those doses with all the drugs you mentioned.

Some of the 8 party-goers suffered no long term harm from it.

The article believes it was LSD. Provide the source to clear that up...
 
pmoseman said:
No. People would certainly live at those doses with all the drugs you mentioned.
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So you are seriously arguing that 1000 to 10,000 the active or "standard" dose of alcohol, nicotine, paracetamol/acetaminophen, cocaine would not be fatal?

That is foolish, to say the least.

I asked you for a source to back up your claim - which you won't do - because you are a troll, and I know how you operate; evidence isn't something you seem to value.

For the sake of thoroughness, let's give your anti-drug crusade another kick in the direction of the door.

A google search of this old story contradicts the "LSD overdose" theory in a matter of seconds.

This from an Erowid.org article on 25x-NBOMe fatalities:
Incident: Nick Mitchell, 2012
Nick Mitchell died on Dec 6, 2012. His death was blamed on LSD, but as of August, 2013, the police suspect that it was 25I-NBOMe sold as LSD. No LSD was found in toxicology tests.
Duffy C. "Research Chemical NBOM-E Linked to Drug Deaths of Teenagers Henry Kwan, Nick Mitchell, Preston Bridge". 7 News. Aug 8, 2013.
7.30 can also reveal that police have a strong suspicion the drug caused the death of 15-year-old Nick Mitchell from the Central Coast, who died last December. At the time the death was blamed on LSD. "Unfortunately young Nick Mitchell died as a result of taking a substance, and his friend who survived engaged in quite reckless behaviour," Det Supt Bingham said. "Toxicology reports have since come back that no LSD was involved in Nick Mitchell's death."
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A news story from a reputable news organisation on this tragic story:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-...om-e-blamed-for-teenagers-drug-deaths/4872078

And especially for you, pmoseman, a blog post about irresponsible morons publicly blaming LSD for overdoses of similarly potent hallucinogenic substances:
http://enpsychedelia.org/enpsychedelia/blog/murdoch-news-journos-lie-about-lsd/



Now you've made your point, time and time again about your opposition to safe drug use.

But it is time you showed some respect - respect for this deceased young man, his poor family and friends.
Respect for people who do use drugs as safely and responsibly as one can in this terrible "war on drugs" (a war whose victims are all innocent civilians; but whose beneficiaries are violent thugs, criminal syndicates and police (oh, sorry I already mentioned "violent thugs") - and the people that profit from the desperation and vulnerability of people caught in bad situations because of the climate of hostility towards drug users.

And finally, I think you should try to consider the people who make bluelight a positive force in the world - a place of compassion, education, accurate information and help for people who are trying to take responsibility for their actions (rather than blame drugs for their problems, live in ignorant fear - or spread unfounded mistruths - or lies, in the case that they know the information to be untrue).
If you're not interested in using bluelight to learn or contribute wisdom or factual knowledge - just to argue, waste people's time and make comments to get a reaction, I would politely suggest you cease such obnoxious behaviour.
You've been posting here for long enough to know the role of this forum in advocating safety over [abstinence];playing dumb wont cut it anymore - you deliberately seek to wind people up - and in a thread talking about the tragic death of a young person, that is in very poor taste.

Get with the Harm Reduction program or leave bluelight to do it's thing.
You're converting no one.

From that final link, should you fail to read it:
I would like to make a complaint about the article entitled, “Teenager Nick Mitchell’s LSD overdose – death, delusions and despair”

Journalists Clementine Cuneo and Richard Noone have barely checked facts and jumped to conclusions that are inconsistent with known effects of the drug LSD. The headline itself claims that the teenager overdosed on LSD, but early on in the story it is noted that police believed he had taken LSD. Using phrases like, “such a deadly substance” when LSD is known to be a safer substance than Australia’s popular legal drugs alcohol and nicotine is irresponsible reporting. The story focuses on LSD being the deadly factor in this boy’s death, although the toxicology report is not yet in.

I will be interested to see what the toxicology report says, and speculate the substance was more likely the research chemical 25I-NBOMe, which some nefarious types sometimes sell as LSD.

It seems a hark back to ancient times to use the death of this boy to proliferate an obsolete and ill-thought-through ‘anti-drugs’ agenda.

I would like to see the article corrected and the irresponsible and scientifically unfounded speculation about what killed Nick Mitchell removed.
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Yep, well done SpaceJunk, I dont know what Pmoseman is on about half the time. But hopefully that clears this subject up for her.

Anyway RIP to the dude who died, it must be very hard on his family and friends.
 
lol I don't even need to read this article. The title says it all "blah blah teen dies from LSD" that statement right there - what it basically says is this kid died from some dumbass research chemical, probably that 25i-nbome nonsense or something... I hate to say this but LSD isn't even made anymore by hardly anyone, there are probably only a few hundred doses of LSD made each year for close-knit underground groups, its not widespread anymore.
 
It's who you know. There's loads of LSD around the world even if you arent seeing it.
 
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gh0stmAn said:
lol I don't even need to read this article. The title says it all "blah blah teen dies from LSD" that statement right there - what it basically says is this kid died from some dumbass research chemical, probably that 25i-nbome nonsense or something... I hate to say this but LSD isn't even made anymore by hardly anyone, there are probably only a few hundred doses of LSD made each year for close-knit underground groups, its not widespread anymore.
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Wow I can call my dealer and buy the world's supply of LSD. Maybe there is no LSD in your town, and maybe it's hard to get in Australia, I don't live there I don't know. If you come to western Canada (where I live) there is no problem getting sheets, as many as you want. Same with many places in Europe. People need to stop thinking the world supply is reflected by their local scene. My local edm festival has lots of LSD, if you go to high school raves here though then yes you will probably get RC's. I don't consider my local teenage rave scene to be an indicator of any drug related trends. It's like saying all the MDMA out there is fake. Maybe it is in your circle but it is not in mine.
There is lots of real LSD out there and when testing is done like at the Boom festival in Portugal the majority of it is real too.
 
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