BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,339
Suggestion: Try searching Legal Q&A for "entrapment"...
BigTrancer
BigTrancer
At Dinner With an Undercover Narcotics Detective
- Thread starter dexter_stayne
- Start date
Sorry for entering this thread so late, but with regards to plain clothes police in Sydney, all i can say is you guys would be absolutely shocked if you knew the full extent of their operations.
At a major Sydney night club, every Friday night there are no less than 50 undercover operatives in the club. No guys, I am not kidding... 50. Obviously they would not send 50 police into a club every week just to bust a couple of dealers. They are there to gather information. If you have ever sold a pill to someone in a (the) major night club in Sydney, there is a good chance you have had your picture taken by these people. They target one section of the night club each week, flood it with undercovers and go from there.
Just quickly let me tell you a bit about the undercovers themselves. About 40% are female. About 30% are Asian. Of the white males, about 40% are pretty solid fellas (as you'd expect a police officer to be) and the rest are fairly thin. Come to think of it there is one who is a touch too solid.
They generally enter the club in groups of couples as paying customers but let me assure you, the club staff know who they are.
Once inside they pretty much just cosy on down, get comfortable and act as normal as you or I. Impossible to pick them out so don't even try. However, while this is going on, there are 2-3 people going around trying to score as many pills as possible. These are the people who will be identifying potential targets for later in the night.
It is around the time that everyone seems to have a cheeky smile on their face that they start getting to work. The idea is to find out who are the major players or who know major players. They will then try to befriend them and get as much out of them as possible. With most people under the influence, it usually isn't too hard to get info.
Messages are passed from one operative to another by several means..
1. Chinese Whispers, but you can imagine how suspect this could look so it is not used very commonly.
2. Dancing and Pointing is the most common. Has anyone ever noticed a couple of guys evenly spaced backed up against a wall who every few mins just break out in dance. You know with the hands pointing out in front of them. This is used to point in the direction of where a purchase is about to made or to point out a person who needs to be kept under surveillance from that point on. This is the easiest way to pick out undercovers.. because they are all dancing in a similar way during a part of a song which isn't all that dancey.. you know what i mean?
3. Hand and Body Gestures are also used. You know, the scratching of the noise, the squeezing of the earlobe, lighting of cigarettes etc The lighting up of ones face by placing a glowstick close to it is one that most wouldn't think of or notice. Also, a person walking past with a water bottle in hand, with either his hand covering the label or not.
4. There are also a few who are wired with microphones and earpieces, these are the people co-ordinating movements and actions.
When the police have someone they would like to fully investigate that person is tagged and followed for the rest of the night. They will have their photograph taken on a number of occasions. Cameras are hidden in females hair, in packs of ciggarettes and on the inside of the back of peoples jackets. Photos are also taken with normal slimline digital cameras which are simply half pulled out of a pocket, say cheese, and back in again.
If it is warranted (for example, he has been obvserved selling a large amount of pills, and has told an operative that he has access to large amounts of drugs) he will be followed home, identified (via car rego, house address etc) and will have his phone tapped and possibly be put under 24 hour surveillance. If they think they might have someone of interest, but couldn't get enough out of him from inside the club, this person can expect to be asked if he has any drugs for sale on his way home from the club. Perhaps from a drunk, homeless guy who is standing well inside the casino premises with a bouncer about 20 metres away who makes no attempt to remove him from the premises??..."
You can imagine how easy it would be to nab some of the big guys using this system. Even the people who are so careful and only sell to good friends can be caught out. Say i purchase 100 pills from a good friend. I then sell them off to my trusted friends and trusted (smalltime) dealers, keeping say 5-10 for myself. Make a couple of bucks and have essentially a free night out. Now let's say one of those small time dealers, of whom i'd known for years and have never had any problems with, sells 10-20 pills to one of his mates who has decided he wants to make a few bucks. He takes his 10-20 to this night club. Has no idea of what's going on around him, gets tagged and followed home. He then goes to my friends house to stock up for next weekend, he is followed and my friend is tagged. Guess who's next up the chain. And with me selling 100 pills a week i'm likely to be one of the guys that goes down. But not until it has gone all the way to the top of course. My friends, who were simply sorting their friends out each weekend with say 10-20, are left out of it so as to not let the general public know how the entire operation was brought down. Meanwhile, myself, who was only sorting a few friends out each week also, is looking at 6-60 months.
Well have a little think about that guys. I bet there are some scared people out there now, and rightfully so. It sure made me think twice about what i say and who i talk to when i go out.
I have to run right now but i'll read over this post tonight and anything i've missed I'll add tomorrow morning.
Boomslang.
At a major Sydney night club, every Friday night there are no less than 50 undercover operatives in the club. No guys, I am not kidding... 50. Obviously they would not send 50 police into a club every week just to bust a couple of dealers. They are there to gather information. If you have ever sold a pill to someone in a (the) major night club in Sydney, there is a good chance you have had your picture taken by these people. They target one section of the night club each week, flood it with undercovers and go from there.
Just quickly let me tell you a bit about the undercovers themselves. About 40% are female. About 30% are Asian. Of the white males, about 40% are pretty solid fellas (as you'd expect a police officer to be) and the rest are fairly thin. Come to think of it there is one who is a touch too solid.
They generally enter the club in groups of couples as paying customers but let me assure you, the club staff know who they are.
Once inside they pretty much just cosy on down, get comfortable and act as normal as you or I. Impossible to pick them out so don't even try. However, while this is going on, there are 2-3 people going around trying to score as many pills as possible. These are the people who will be identifying potential targets for later in the night.
It is around the time that everyone seems to have a cheeky smile on their face that they start getting to work. The idea is to find out who are the major players or who know major players. They will then try to befriend them and get as much out of them as possible. With most people under the influence, it usually isn't too hard to get info.
Messages are passed from one operative to another by several means..
1. Chinese Whispers, but you can imagine how suspect this could look so it is not used very commonly.
2. Dancing and Pointing is the most common. Has anyone ever noticed a couple of guys evenly spaced backed up against a wall who every few mins just break out in dance. You know with the hands pointing out in front of them. This is used to point in the direction of where a purchase is about to made or to point out a person who needs to be kept under surveillance from that point on. This is the easiest way to pick out undercovers.. because they are all dancing in a similar way during a part of a song which isn't all that dancey.. you know what i mean?
3. Hand and Body Gestures are also used. You know, the scratching of the noise, the squeezing of the earlobe, lighting of cigarettes etc The lighting up of ones face by placing a glowstick close to it is one that most wouldn't think of or notice. Also, a person walking past with a water bottle in hand, with either his hand covering the label or not.
4. There are also a few who are wired with microphones and earpieces, these are the people co-ordinating movements and actions.
When the police have someone they would like to fully investigate that person is tagged and followed for the rest of the night. They will have their photograph taken on a number of occasions. Cameras are hidden in females hair, in packs of ciggarettes and on the inside of the back of peoples jackets. Photos are also taken with normal slimline digital cameras which are simply half pulled out of a pocket, say cheese, and back in again.
If it is warranted (for example, he has been obvserved selling a large amount of pills, and has told an operative that he has access to large amounts of drugs) he will be followed home, identified (via car rego, house address etc) and will have his phone tapped and possibly be put under 24 hour surveillance. If they think they might have someone of interest, but couldn't get enough out of him from inside the club, this person can expect to be asked if he has any drugs for sale on his way home from the club. Perhaps from a drunk, homeless guy who is standing well inside the casino premises with a bouncer about 20 metres away who makes no attempt to remove him from the premises??..."
You can imagine how easy it would be to nab some of the big guys using this system. Even the people who are so careful and only sell to good friends can be caught out. Say i purchase 100 pills from a good friend. I then sell them off to my trusted friends and trusted (smalltime) dealers, keeping say 5-10 for myself. Make a couple of bucks and have essentially a free night out. Now let's say one of those small time dealers, of whom i'd known for years and have never had any problems with, sells 10-20 pills to one of his mates who has decided he wants to make a few bucks. He takes his 10-20 to this night club. Has no idea of what's going on around him, gets tagged and followed home. He then goes to my friends house to stock up for next weekend, he is followed and my friend is tagged. Guess who's next up the chain. And with me selling 100 pills a week i'm likely to be one of the guys that goes down. But not until it has gone all the way to the top of course. My friends, who were simply sorting their friends out each weekend with say 10-20, are left out of it so as to not let the general public know how the entire operation was brought down. Meanwhile, myself, who was only sorting a few friends out each week also, is looking at 6-60 months.
Well have a little think about that guys. I bet there are some scared people out there now, and rightfully so. It sure made me think twice about what i say and who i talk to when i go out.
I have to run right now but i'll read over this post tonight and anything i've missed I'll add tomorrow morning.
Boomslang.
Last edited:
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,339
The above might sound paranoid, but the message is fairly sound IMO, and there's no reason why it couldn't be true, in principle. I don't for a moment think that there are speculative missions of hundreds of police dragnetting nightclubs hoping to snare massive dealers by chance, but in the event of lead gathering or acting on prior intelligence it's possible. Fortunately there are not 50 undercover police available for EVERY club, but it might pay to assume there are a few of them nearby whenever you go out, just to keep you from doing anything silly like selling pills.
Boomslang, to save everyone else the trouble I might ask the obvious question: Where can we come by such detailed information as you have posted? (or rather, how can we find out more).
BigTrancer
Boomslang, to save everyone else the trouble I might ask the obvious question: Where can we come by such detailed information as you have posted? (or rather, how can we find out more).
BigTrancer
dexter_stayne
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2003
- Messages
- 179
maybe i need to organize another dinner appointment??
you have seriously freaked me out. then again, if i ever sell in an event, its only really spares.. 10 is an absolute max.
to be a little cynical, the whole operation sounds way to intricate, you can get away with alot in a crowded event, to me it sounds like a little too much discretion.
you have seriously freaked me out. then again, if i ever sell in an event, its only really spares.. 10 is an absolute max.
to be a little cynical, the whole operation sounds way to intricate, you can get away with alot in a crowded event, to me it sounds like a little too much discretion.
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,339
Depends if you wanna go to prison or not...
My point is, yes, clubs/events are crowded and there's a lot going on - but consider the point of view from someone who is A) not on drugs, and B) not there for a good time. It's not THAT hard to ignore the music, people, atmosphere and darkness and pick out what is going on by observing the dynamics in groups of people. Hell, there was a spate of articles in the newspapers recently about pill dealing being 'rife' in city clubs.
They only need to catch you doing it once to fuck your life.
BigTrancer
My point is, yes, clubs/events are crowded and there's a lot going on - but consider the point of view from someone who is A) not on drugs, and B) not there for a good time. It's not THAT hard to ignore the music, people, atmosphere and darkness and pick out what is going on by observing the dynamics in groups of people. Hell, there was a spate of articles in the newspapers recently about pill dealing being 'rife' in city clubs.
They only need to catch you doing it once to fuck your life.
BigTrancer
dexter_stayne
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2003
- Messages
- 179
i think people should be alot more responsible when it comes to bringing their drugs to an event, not to rely on a last minute deal.
Firstly, it makes you more comfortable and happy knowing that you can stay where you are, and concentrate on the people and music.
Secondly, it would take out the big-time dealers who aren't there for the event, they are only there for selling.
Firstly, it makes you more comfortable and happy knowing that you can stay where you are, and concentrate on the people and music.
Secondly, it would take out the big-time dealers who aren't there for the event, they are only there for selling.
Kman003
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2003
- Messages
- 241
wow Boomslang... I had no idea. I'll try and be a little less flamboyant when after stuff in the future. ..easy to say now I suppose. Think the place I was at it was so rife and in your face that maybe it was too hard for the cops to isolate targets. Is this possible ? A place to far gone and rampant with drugs it becomes the land the time forgot ?
Straylight
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2001
- Messages
- 196
I'd back up the above in regards to detection of undercovers- I encountered a few whilst I was living in Queensland. I think their police force has a more traditional recruiting base than Sydney, so there were certainly a few bull-necked guys with short hair, trainers and acid wash jeans that stood out a long way.
On the other hand, there were some guys (and a couple of girls) I met that you would NEVER pick as an undercover- in fact, there was one guy I was absolutely convinced was a stoner who spent his life on the dole... until a friend leaked his real job.
About this time I became a lot more careful who I talked to and what I said when out...
On the other hand, there were some guys (and a couple of girls) I met that you would NEVER pick as an undercover- in fact, there was one guy I was absolutely convinced was a stoner who spent his life on the dole... until a friend leaked his real job.
About this time I became a lot more careful who I talked to and what I said when out...
melancholic
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 2, 2001
- Messages
- 792
I have no problem believing that undercover operations are that intricate. You only have to read about how the police tracked the Italian mafia 20 years ago, to realise they'd be well and truly equipped to perform an operation like that nowadays.
A large group of trained people wouldn't have too much trouble scanning a club full of drug users. Text messages and mobile phone photos can be transfered instantly <- and that kind of technology is available to the general public. Even the local sports team can use hand signals and signs to inform each other, I have no doubt that the police have it all under control.
A large group of trained people wouldn't have too much trouble scanning a club full of drug users. Text messages and mobile phone photos can be transfered instantly <- and that kind of technology is available to the general public. Even the local sports team can use hand signals and signs to inform each other, I have no doubt that the police have it all under control.
sonic_reality
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2002
- Messages
- 688
i really don't see a cop as someone who "devotes their life to occupationally pissing people off, and even ruining peoples lives", because frankly, that is not what they are about!
you only see them that way, because you have something to fear/hide from them!
if you never did anything illegal, you would see cops as the saviours of our streets! and that's the thing, most people don't do anything illegal(besides speeding etc.), so they are seen by most people as the saviours of our streets! especially by older people!
all drug takers/users/abusers seem to think cops are only in it to bust them, and that is the whole reason they have their job. just to fuck druggos around!
but you are wrong, cops do their jobs, because they believe that what they are doing is right(and in most cases it is)!
we have to remember, DRUGS ARE ILLEGAL! we all take the risk of getting busted when we use drugs, and it is not the cops fault when we get done.
it is entirely our own!
i have been busted twice for drugs, and twice when i was younger for shoplifting, and i totally realise that it is ALL my own fault, and i cannot blame the cops for doing their jobs!
sure, they were assholes(well, i got the usual good cop, bad cop situation hehe), but they were only assholes, because that is how i saw them!
i can't believe that you are comparing the cops, to the nazis. that is just wrong man!
and i'm sure many people on this board would agree with me.
who are you gonna call if you are seriously assaulted, or your house is broken into???? who are you going to expect to find the killer, if your wife/child/friend is murdered???
yeah, that's right. the police! and you would expect them to help you, would you not?? you would not be calling them fuckheads then, would you??
i'm gonna say this again, SteveElektro, and all the other people who pay out on cops....
the only reason you don't like the cops, is because you have something to fear from them! don't do anything illegal, and you have nothing to fear.
simple as that!
i can't stand it when people barrage on about how cops are wankers, cops ruin peoples lives, cops can get fucked etc.!!
do they ruin peoples lives when they catch a murderer??? do they ruin peoples lives when they catch armed robbers, or child abusers??
NO, they save/help peoples lives!!
i know i'm gonna get flamed for this, but i know i am right.
you only hate them because you fear them!
sonic_reality
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2002
- Messages
- 688
and on the topic on undercover cops!
the cops sometimes aren't too careful when taking photos!
had a scary experience at my last doof that i went to!
it was a freebie, so we weren't expecting much action in the way of cops!
i was sitting behind a uv banner with a few of my mates(one of whom is a smalltime dealer), and we thought we were pretty safe!
my friend(the dd) then pulled out his baggie of whiz, and started giving us little bits on a knife! after about the 3rd handout, he sticks the knife back in the baggie, and we see a flash!
we all look around to see where it was coming from(thinking someone was taking a photo of the dancefloor), when me and the dd spot a camera pointed straight at us. and then another flash, as they took another photo, with me and my friend looking directly into the lense, with him holding the baggie with the knife in it in plain view.
by now we were both very paranoid, as they had both of our faces on camera(no one else saw the camera).
so one of our mates, who is pretty burly and a straight talker, slowly walks up to them, without making it obvious, and starts chatting with them!
one of the first things they asked, was can you score any drugs!!
my mate went on to give them a big speech about how drugs are bad, and that they should never take drugs because they do damage to your body!
then he came back over to us, and told us the whole story, and they were still watching him.
the next thing you know, they get up, and leave the doof! no one saw them again!
i'm not sure if they were undercovers, but if they weren't, they would have to be the dumbest people i have ever seen at a doof!
i mean, who in their right mind(besides a d ) takes a photo, at a doof(where cameras usually aren't welcome), of a guy dealing out whiz on a knife.
if they weren't undercovers, they were just plain stupid!
i know he was stupid for doing it out in the open, but it was partly his party, so he didn't feel the need to hide it!
the cops sometimes aren't too careful when taking photos!
had a scary experience at my last doof that i went to!
it was a freebie, so we weren't expecting much action in the way of cops!
i was sitting behind a uv banner with a few of my mates(one of whom is a smalltime dealer), and we thought we were pretty safe!
my friend(the dd) then pulled out his baggie of whiz, and started giving us little bits on a knife! after about the 3rd handout, he sticks the knife back in the baggie, and we see a flash!
we all look around to see where it was coming from(thinking someone was taking a photo of the dancefloor), when me and the dd spot a camera pointed straight at us. and then another flash, as they took another photo, with me and my friend looking directly into the lense, with him holding the baggie with the knife in it in plain view.
by now we were both very paranoid, as they had both of our faces on camera(no one else saw the camera).
so one of our mates, who is pretty burly and a straight talker, slowly walks up to them, without making it obvious, and starts chatting with them!
one of the first things they asked, was can you score any drugs!!
my mate went on to give them a big speech about how drugs are bad, and that they should never take drugs because they do damage to your body!
then he came back over to us, and told us the whole story, and they were still watching him.
the next thing you know, they get up, and leave the doof! no one saw them again!
i'm not sure if they were undercovers, but if they weren't, they would have to be the dumbest people i have ever seen at a doof!
i mean, who in their right mind(besides a d
) takes a photo, at a doof(where cameras usually aren't welcome), of a guy dealing out whiz on a knife.if they weren't undercovers, they were just plain stupid!
i know he was stupid for doing it out in the open, but it was partly his party, so he didn't feel the need to hide it!
dexter_stayne
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2003
- Messages
- 179
[Edit: Offtopic comments deleted. BigTrancer]
Last edited by a moderator:
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,339
ROFL -- I don't think "it's my party and i'll deal if i want to" goes down real well in the courtroom as an excuse.
BigTrancer
Virtually all the information i have gathered has come from first hand experience. The majority from 2 incidents that i can't really go into.
I'm not sure how to find out more info, i have asked the operators of this nightclub (which can be identified if you read through my first post) to at least admit that this occurs but have recieved no response. It is quite simple to observe first hand however. Simply show up to the club sober and keep an eye out. Now that you know what to look for it shouldn't be that hard to see. In saying that, it is not the makings for a good night out, but for those who really need to see it for themselves, i'm sure they wouldn't mind giving up one good night out.
Something i forgot to mention in my first post is that the same unit that is present at this nightclub each friday night, is also present at all major raves in Sydney. So, to anyone who was planning a night out with Tom or simply a night of Passion this weekend.. use caution.
Boomslang.
I'm not sure how to find out more info, i have asked the operators of this nightclub (which can be identified if you read through my first post) to at least admit that this occurs but have recieved no response. It is quite simple to observe first hand however. Simply show up to the club sober and keep an eye out. Now that you know what to look for it shouldn't be that hard to see. In saying that, it is not the makings for a good night out, but for those who really need to see it for themselves, i'm sure they wouldn't mind giving up one good night out.
Something i forgot to mention in my first post is that the same unit that is present at this nightclub each friday night, is also present at all major raves in Sydney. So, to anyone who was planning a night out with Tom or simply a night of Passion this weekend.. use caution.
Boomslang.
sonic_reality
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2002
- Messages
- 688
i know, that's why i said he was stupid for doing it!
and i spose we were stupid for being there when it was being done, but hey...... who's gonna knock back freebies????? not me
not like it matters tho that they got my face on camera, i live on the complete opposite side of the country now, so i think i'm safe.
but i think they might think about watching him from now on
and i spose we were stupid for being there when it was being done, but hey...... who's gonna knock back freebies????? not me
not like it matters tho that they got my face on camera, i live on the complete opposite side of the country now, so i think i'm safe.
but i think they might think about watching him from now on
quiet roar
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,990
how many cops are out there catching "real criminals" and how many others are revenue raising, busting jaywalkers, and hassling small time druggies.
I agree we do need some protection (from the cops more often than not), but I have found in my dealings with them that the vast majority of cops are simple minded power trippers, who get their rocks off in hassling people who can't stand up for themselves - I wont even get into the set ups and bashings.
I'm sorry sonic_reality, i know there are some good ones out there, but the majority of the ones i have met do not make me feel safe or protected.
I agree we do need some protection (from the cops more often than not), but I have found in my dealings with them that the vast majority of cops are simple minded power trippers, who get their rocks off in hassling people who can't stand up for themselves - I wont even get into the set ups and bashings.
I'm sorry sonic_reality, i know there are some good ones out there, but the majority of the ones i have met do not make me feel safe or protected.
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,339
There's heaps of them! The police actually have a whole Real Crimes Division, whom are out there solving all the crimes that make pill-takers scared... the police in RCD prefer to leave investigating drug offenses and jaywalking to the Fictional Crimes Division...
BT
BT
dimmo
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2001
- Messages
- 942
^^
Umm, everything has to be put into perspective though.
Example, a policeman attends a multiple fatality caused by a drunk driver. He then pulls over a driver three times over the legal limit. He is not going to be friendly towards that driver, because he has seen the damage these people do.
Same with drug users.
The bashings do go on, and i'm sure often the people the police are dealing with instigate it - especially when under the influence of something.
I mean what the fuck are people doing getting mouthy to men with guns and the ability to arrest for fucks sake? 8(
I do think that Police should be rostered on/off street duty, like a sailor in the Navy has shore duty as well as sea duty.
Too much time doing one thing, often associating with criminals can/will affect some people too much ... maybe even become criminals themselves.
Umm, everything has to be put into perspective though.
Example, a policeman attends a multiple fatality caused by a drunk driver. He then pulls over a driver three times over the legal limit. He is not going to be friendly towards that driver, because he has seen the damage these people do.
Same with drug users.
The bashings do go on, and i'm sure often the people the police are dealing with instigate it - especially when under the influence of something.
I mean what the fuck are people doing getting mouthy to men with guns and the ability to arrest for fucks sake? 8(
I do think that Police should be rostered on/off street duty, like a sailor in the Navy has shore duty as well as sea duty.
Too much time doing one thing, often associating with criminals can/will affect some people too much ... maybe even become criminals themselves.
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,339
I dunno if we can successfully link the often-repeated 'all police r bastards' argument into this undercover cops thread though... because, like, wouldn't undercover cops be trying to be anything BUT bastards, and swallowing their deep down desire to choke all young drug using scum, in order to be your friend and buy a bickie off you?
BT
BT