Opioids Anyone over 30 years on methadone or buprenorphine?

[Ne0]

I'm interested to hear people who have been on methadone or Buprenorphine over 30 years? I'm sure there are lots of people. I'd like to hear how do you feel when you take thee daily dose (first one?) and how often do you have to take, and what doses? How do you feel during the day, physically and emotionally? Do you feel it has more positive effects than negative (aside from relapsing to heroin ofc) on you're life? Do you plan to quit and if so how or do yuo plan to stay on it rest of you're life?

Iv'e heard that Buprenorphine has some anti-depressant effect that in some countries they have srated to give it to people who dont get any positive effect from any antidepressant. If you are on Buprenorphine do you feel that it works as anti-depressant even after so many years?

Thanks for you're input.

 

[Ne0]

well it seem they dont hang in drug forums and why they should?

 

[adder]

Buprenorphine for over 30 years? I don't think that's possible no matter where you live. In the mid 1980s the use of buprenorphine instead of methadone as a maintenance drug was still just an idea and was to be tested clinically.

 

[Ne0]

Buprenorphine for over 30 years? I don't think that's possible no matter where you live. In the mid 1980s the use of buprenorphine instead of methadone as a maintenance drug was still just an idea and was to be tested clinically.

Ok but what about methadone it has been around since nazis? But on buprenorphine over 20 years is possible. I'm just interested how to they feel about it. In here I can reada only about experience who been on only 5 years then weaned off. But I'm sure there are lots of people who will be on them rest of their life.

 

[Soso78]

I was on methadone for about 16 years. While I was on it I didn't realise the effect it had on me, I was numb to everything and was never really happy or sad just felt nothing at all. Getting off it was the best thing I ever did.

 

[Ne0]

I was on methadone for about 16 years. While I was on it I didn't realise the effect it had on me, I was numb to everything and was never really happy or sad just felt nothing at all. Getting off it was the best thing I ever did.

Sound likes typical anti-depressant. How did you quit?

 

[Soso78]

I reduced from 80mg down to 10mg over about a year then just stopped. I got diazepam and zopiclone off my gp to help. I should point out that for most the time I was on methadone I was also using crack and heroin daily, which probably didn't help lol

 

[Ne0]

I reduced from 80mg down to 10mg over about a year then just stopped. I got diazepam and zopiclone off my gp to help. I should point out that for most the time I was on methadone I was also using crack and heroin daily, which probably didn't help lol

Wouldn't you need heroic doses (and money) of heroin to get high while on methadone? WOuldnt it be easier jsut take off days from methadone and then use?

I was wondering how it would had been if you didn't use heroin and crack.

But anyway, Ive heard methadone wd's re worst wds in the planet, how did you manage how long it took before you would say you feel somehow "normal"?

 

[Soso78]

I used quite a bit of heroin and although my tolerance was through the roof I would still feel it despite the methadone.
I quit when I had reduced to 10mg, I was really fucked for about 3 weeks and was about 4-5 weeks before I felt normal again.
In my life I have quit heroin crack drinking and smoking but methadone was without doubt the worst. Physically and psychologically it's just hard to get off it.
Lack of sleep will push you to your limits.

 

[siq]

Well I wouldn't even compare the two to begin with. Much diff drugs. I don't have a problem with either. I've been on bupe for about 4.5 yrs. Nowhere near 30 but its been awhile. I've also done methadone for about a year so I have a very good idea of both. Bupe worked for me. Methadone didn't. On methadone i was exactly like the person said, totally unmotivated, didn't care about shit, always got high ontop of it. Plus, If you have a high enough dose u just nod-off all day. So to your family u are still a drug-addict basically. The other con to methadone from the addicts perspective is that MOST need to go to the clinic every morning, atleast when they start. So you are chained to the city u live in. Now I'm no saint on bupe believe me but theres a HUGE difference. When I slip and screw up it only last for a week or less, and I'm back into my doctor and on track. I dont go off on a 2 year run like I used to prior to bupe. And that in itself is what ignorant people who know nothing bout maintenance dont understand...

 

[adder]

Sound likes typical anti-depressant. How did you quit?

I was on methadone for 2.5 years, have been on buprenorphine for over 4 years now, took antidepressants as well but for much shorter periods of time and in no way methadone or buprenorphine feels like any SNRI or SSRI antidepressant, and definitely buprenorphine is much different from methadone as well.

As for methadone, I can basically repeat what siq described, although all the side effects obviously kick in with time, at the beginning methadone was a very laid-back sedative opioid with no rush for me, I started taking it to slowly taper off heroin, but ended up taking it for over 2 years, and I honestly didn't register the point in time when it actually started to make me feel like a zombie rather than provided a steady opioid effect in the background that helped me to go throughout a day without anxiety (although it wasn't really in the background as the effects of methadone were easily observable to people around me, constricted pupils, "dead" look in the eyes, slow thinking that only got worse and worse with time etc.). So at first methadone did make me feel better and was an OK opioid for my needs back then - that is get rid of anxiety which played a large part in my depression, but in the end it was devastating. My daily dose was 40-50mg/day most of the time (I weighed ~50-55 kg at that time being 170 cm tall), but I also was on 6mg of clonazepam a day, so both drugs played a role in how I felt.

Buprenorphine on the other hand is completely different. For one year I took buprenorphine (8mg a day) along with clonazepam (4mg a day taper down to 0.5mg before switching to 15mg of clorazepate and quitting), and if I were to sum up the side effects of methadone and clonazepam I must say judging by this period methadone was largely resposible for the emotionless "zombie" mode I was in as just as I started taking buprenorphine, I immediately started feeling better, my mood got much much better, I was almost euphoric for the first few weeks of bupe maintenance (but not euphoric like after taking opioids or stimulants, but simply happy with life); clonazepam on the other hand much more impacted my memory which started getting better quite rapidly after I quit benzodiazepine before I even got relief from the extreme anxiety due to withdrawal. Anyway, getting back to buprenorphine - with time it becomes a drug that works mostly in the background, which often may also lead to a trap where one tries to get more relief with it by taking more and it doesn't work that way, if you stay at lower doses, it seems to work more like a regular opioid but in my experience feeling more opioid effects from bupe always leads to wanting stronger opioid effect which again cannot be achieved with bupe, so eventually I got more or less stable at 6mg. If you manage to sort things out in your life, bupe is a drug that allows you to live without withdrawals and cravings, and, other than for the time when you have to take it and hold under your tongue for 15-20 mins, without really noticing you're on it. It definitely does have an impact on you in a way similarly to other opioids, e.g. lower testosterone, constipation, constricted pupils (yet my eyes don't look as emotionless on buprenorphine as they looked on full agonist opioids and especially methadone!), maybe can even add to your depression and anxiety if it was pre-existing, but like I wrote earlier, if you sorted out your life after the hell of opioid addiction, it is more helping. I'm far from thinking I could spend the rest of my life on buprenorphine, but after 4 yours it doesn't seem I will quit it this summer either (for many reasons, I'm not really fully stable, I'm depressed, and I lack spare time to go through the withdrawal), so if I were to take some opioid for the rest of my life, I'd choose buprenorphine over methadone any day. Thanks to buprenorphine I managed to quit clonazepam, I managed to continue studying and get a job at the uni, which all in all finally let me live an independent life to an extent, as I look at it - it's not really that much, far from even a minimum that could make you satisfied with life but it's still much better than living day to day coping drugs.

 

[Ne0]

I was on methadone for 2.5 years, have been on buprenorphine for over 4 years now, took antidepressants as well but for much shorter periods of time and in no way methadone or buprenorphine feels like any SNRI or SSRI antidepressant, and definitely buprenorphine is much different from methadone as well.

As for methadone, I can basically repeat what siq described, although all the side effects obviously kick in with time, at the beginning methadone was a very laid-back sedative opioid with no rush for me, I started taking it to slowly taper off heroin, but ended up taking it for over 2 years, and I honestly didn't register the point in time when it actually started to make me feel like a zombie rather than provided a steady opioid effect in the background that helped me to go throughout a day without anxiety (although it wasn't really in the background as the effects of methadone were easily observable to people around me, constricted pupils, "dead" look in the eyes, slow thinking that only got worse and worse with time etc.). So at first methadone did make me feel better and was an OK opioid for my needs back then - that is get rid of anxiety which played a large part in my depression, but in the end it was devastating. My daily dose was 40-50mg/day most of the time (I weighed ~50-55 kg at that time being 170 cm tall), but I also was on 6mg of clonazepam a day, so both drugs played a role in how I felt.

Buprenorphine on the other hand is completely different. For one year I took buprenorphine (8mg a day) along with clonazepam (4mg a day taper down to 0.5mg before switching to 15mg of clorazepate and quitting), and if I were to sum up the side effects of methadone and clonazepam I must say judging by this period methadone was largely resposible for the emotionless "zombie" mode I was in as just as I started taking buprenorphine, I immediately started feeling better, my mood got much much better, I was almost euphoric for the first few weeks of bupe maintenance (but not euphoric like after taking opioids or stimulants, but simply happy with life); clonazepam on the other hand much more impacted my memory which started getting better quite rapidly after I quit benzodiazepine before I even got relief from the extreme anxiety due to withdrawal. Anyway, getting back to buprenorphine - with time it becomes a drug that works mostly in the background, which often may also lead to a trap where one tries to get more relief with it by taking more and it doesn't work that way, if you stay at lower doses, it seems to work more like a regular opioid but in my experience feeling more opioid effects from bupe always leads to wanting stronger opioid effect which again cannot be achieved with bupe, so eventually I got more or less stable at 6mg. If you manage to sort things out in your life, bupe is a drug that allows you to live without withdrawals and cravings, and, other than for the time when you have to take it and hold under your tongue for 15-20 mins, without really noticing you're on it. It definitely does have an impact on you in a way similarly to other opioids, e.g. lower testosterone, constipation, constricted pupils (yet my eyes don't look as emotionless on buprenorphine as they looked on full agonist opioids and especially methadone!), maybe can even add to your depression and anxiety if it was pre-existing, but like I wrote earlier, if you sorted out your life after the hell of opioid addiction, it is more helping. I'm far from thinking I could spend the rest of my life on buprenorphine, but after 4 yours it doesn't seem I will quit it this summer either (for many reasons, I'm not really fully stable, I'm depressed, and I lack spare time to go through the withdrawal), so if I were to take some opioid for the rest of my life, I'd choose buprenorphine over methadone any day. Thanks to buprenorphine I managed to quit clonazepam, I managed to continue studying and get a job at the uni, which all in all finally let me live an independent life to an extent, as I look at it - it's not really that much, far from even a minimum that could make you satisfied with life but it's still much better than living day to day coping drugs.

So buprenorphine works as anti-depressant makes you feel normal, depression etc.?

 

[adder]

Like I wrote, the antidepressant effect of buprenorphine is mostly evident during the first few weeks after induction ("honeymoon phase") when it generally makes people energetic and motivated. Then this effect gradually subsides, but many people on maintenance still report feeling some kick in the morning after taking their dose, but this is a mild effect, what buprenorphine does is make you feel normal, not feeling withdrawal symptoms and not feeling cravings. Nevertheless, it doesn't really protect you from falling into depression or anxiety, I constantly battle with episodes of recurring depression but it's all due to my lifestyle. After 4 years on it I still think it does help me a lot every day even though it works in the background. You will find differing opinions on it though for sure just as it is with methadone, I guess. For me personally the difference between being on methadone and buprenorphine is huge definitely with buprenorphine being much better as a long-term maintenance drug. How it's going to be when I eventually decide to taper and quit is a different story though, but I'm sure it can't be worse than quitting methadone.

 

[Coolwhip]

Yeah, I was on bupe for a really long time(like 10 years, abused on top of it for at least half og that) and after a while it became more of a negative than a positive as I just didn't feel normal on it(no WD, body felt good or at least fine) but still felt very depressed/no motivaton or energy no matter what the dose and it didn't help with mental issues(or made them worse) could have been the effect on my endocrine system, since getting off I feel much happier but it took some time...but my body still feels achier/temp perception issues worse some days than others but its worth it.

 

[UkMethadonelady]

Hi Ne0
Yes I (and many of my friends in the UK) have been on methadone for over 20 years. I'm currently on day 21 of my detox which I've done at home using Lofexodine (similar to Clonodine) , Zopiclone and Ripinorol (for restless legs). It's hard to extract from your post exactly what you're looking for ? Are you planning to take up a methadone script & intending to stay on it forever ??
Personally I made a consious decision about 10 years ago (after attempting a similar detox) that I wasn't able to quit and that I would just live with it.
For me (and most of my friends) methadone has allowed me the stability and predictability to slowly get my Shit together. Yes there have been times where I was also using daily but Methadone for me removed the sharp drop off and desperation that arises from being reliant on black market drugs supply.
Whilst on my methadone script I went back to uni, got a good job (and kept it!).
Dosing is important. There is such a thing as 'under dosing' for many years I was under-dosed which ensured that I still had the desire to use. Once my local drug service 'discovered' 'optimum dosing' (for most people around 90-120mls) things changed dramatically. Myself and many of the people around me slowly stopped using (after 20-30 years) and started coming off (Or switching to Bupe. ) Bupe definitely does have a more motivating /less depressant effect and is easier to come off.
I hope that answers your question but feel free to ask further.

 

[UkMethadonelady]

Personally I only dosed once a day. I believe it woke me up and motivated me.
Over the years (depending on the ever changing politics/ policies of the local drug service I have been on doses ranging from 20-100mls a day (90-100mls being the most successful)
However -currently in the UK 'maintenance' is not really an option -even for long term users. The current thinking is to get you to an 'optimum dose' and as soon as it starts working then you are forced to start dropping. Physically and emotionally I felt fine. The sweats were a big problem for me on higher does.
For me I do feel it had more positive effects than negative on my life. It kept my life from descending into total chaos until I was really ready to quit.

 

[Ne0]

Thanks for info, but it seems you have different view of "normal" in opioid use. For me it means both mentally and physically normal. I don't meant getting any kind of "high" but that you don't feel depressed and anxious (unless you had anxiety problems before they might come back ofcourse), worst part after opioid wds is anhedonia not getting any kind of pleasure from thing you used to enjoy like playing some game, reading books, etc. That is normal, I can tolerate some physically unpleasant feelings, but not mental death (anhedonia).

 

[UkMethadonelady]

Ne0
I didn't experience complete 'mental death' on Methadone. Some creative death yes but I completed Art degree and then subsequently have maintained a high level job -working my way up through the ranks. This would not have been possible with complete 'mental death' as you describe.
You were asking for people's personal experience of very long term methadone use. That has been mine. Maybe you have already made up your mind

 

[UkMethadonelady]

Ne0
Maybe you misunderstood my mention of 'optimum dosing' which has nothing to do with getting high but has to do with the idea of flooding all of your opiod receptors in order for it to work as a 'blocking' dose (in a similar way to Bupe)
At no point did I feel 'high'

 

[Ne0]

Ok thanks for info, I'm not looking going to maintenance, because I kicked my 3 years opium habit 6 months back, but have been taking some other opioids (buprenorphine mainly) every now and then lately and getting mild wds after use, well maybe better I don't risk it or I end up as I was before. I don't have cravings tho', I just used these opioids as alternative for anti-anxiety drug I had run out (benzos or pregabalin) when I went to to work, I gave general anxiety disorder and people phobia thats why I started to use opium in first place, but I've been working on it, so in future might not need any anti-anxiety drug.

But it seems that they do give normal feel on mental level too, because you were able to complete degree, congratulation on that by the way. So you must got pleasure from normal activities I reckon? On one point I was thinking going to to burpenorphine maintenance from opium, also I read that it has anti-depressant effect (and I'm, not meaning opioid euphoric effect or other associated with opioid recreational use) and has been scripted for people who have depression that is resistant to any normal given anti-depressants. And also because it has as any other opioid have libido decreasing effects to the point where you might be interested in sex once every 2 months if even that, which I find very good (don't ask why), its one of other many reasons why I started to use opium.