Any alternative to MDMA? First-time come-up and come-down wasn't a good experience...

[eandfriends]

Hello everyone, as a preface, I tried MDMA (although it wasn't tested) for the first time last month. I took half a pill while my friends took 1 pill each (I am about 45kg). I have a family history of anxiety disorders (but never had to take medication, everything is manageable so far). This is the first ever 'hard drug' I tried (besides weed; that wasn't too intense and more of just chill).

COME UP:
First 15 mins. I didn't feel anything but after 20 mins. or so, it hit me so hard. Music was blasting where we were (in a small private 'EDM' room we rented) and the sound seemed to change in pitch and became more pronounced, and I also got a bit of feeling I was losing control (for a while). Visually, there's very mild distortion like my hands and lower body looked weird (also lasted for a few mins. only), and heart was beating so fast, like ever in my life, started to grind my teeth, and suddenly got a headache (behind my head / upper neck area). I didn't feel cold though (I was actually very warm to touch), just some tingly sensation at the beginning. My friends were also coming up at the same time as me so it didn't help that there was nothing to ground me. Although a good friend somehow stabilised and was able to reassure me to just let go and accept the sensations. And it's not like we're going to hallucinate.

ROLLING:
Anyway, after that harsh come-up, I sat for a few moments to ground myself and accept this new way of seeing things. Well, it felt great (I had a headache but didn't bother me)! After a while, I tried dancing and after that, I couldn't stop. And the music, god, it was wonderful. Every sound was like coming from within me. I had no visuals though. Just maybe a 'dreamy' filter to everything. The feeling to me is like being super high on alcohol without the tiredness / sleepiness / and clumsiness that comes with it. Touching felt really nice. Not like mind-blowing to me, but, there's something extra that I can't describe. I got also very empathetic, like, I was hugging my friends and holding their hands (and they're like that to me also). I took another quarter of a pill (or even smaller) when I felt that the high is coming down and it lasted me for another 3 hours. I didn't feel a come-up with that, just sort of energised me again and sustained my high.

COME DOWN:
Come down the day after wasn't so bad. I felt very tired and there's some numbness all over my body. Felt like throwing up when I tried eating something. Not too hungry. But not depressed and all that. It was the following days that was quite hard for me. I felt quite anxious, mildly depressed and experienced derealisation. Felt that I was still in a "high" state or my brain sort of latched to that feeling and haven't come down to 'normal'. Thought it would last forever, however, I am back to maybe 98% normal after a 3 weeks. But it was very scary and I had to struggle in those weeks to keep myself calm and remind myself of how it feels to be normal. Part of the war that's happening in my mind is that the rolling felt so good but having to go through all these negative emotions (before and after) makes me want to avoid it in the future.

TLDR:
Really enjoyed rolling (even just for the way the music sounded so heavenly and how I felt so energetic) but going through 6 hours of 'euphoria' seems not worth it if I would experience all the come-up anxiety and come-down deralisation/anxiety/mild depression. I don't mind the physical come down (tiredness, nausea, etc.). More on the mental come down that concerns me.

So I'd like to ask, is there any alternative to MDMA that has a smoother come-up and no come-down but kind of close to the vibe you get from it? If none, then is there a way to make:

1) The come up smoother, as if like drinking alcohol? At least with alcohol, I am gradually getting higher. This one is like, here you go, you're 10/10 high and that's it. I don't have the option to just stay at level 5 high, then later maybe go to 6, 7. Feel like I am more in control this way. I am also quite a sensitive person so half a pill's stimulation was an overload (at the beginning).
2) Is my feeling of derealisation due to having experienced it for the first time? Like, my brain got shocked since it has never experienced this before. Maybe next time, I'd have a knowledge that it will pass so I can recover faster?

Any advise? Thanks!

 

[Swim15]

Honestly with how your subjective reaction to the experience (seeing as it’s one most enjoy) and family history I don’t think MDMA or the class is drugs is for you.

Very few people are prone to a lot of anxiety (unless it’s trash MDMA which is a possibility) although there are some and the family history gives some precedent to probably not use it as well.

 

[Phobos]

Do not take MDMA and weed together if you are generally prone to anxiety.
Do not drink alcohol with MDMA, it will make the roll harder and less controllable/more confusing and the come down harsher.
IMHO it ruins the experience and anyway, first you need to get to know MDMA alone, then you can experiment with other things in combo.
Next time if you take MDMA just take a smaller starting dose and you can see how you like that.
With your weight 80 to 100mg should be all right but not terribly intense.
Do not take it again for a couple of months anyway, or you risk stacking the comedowns ie not having fully recovered and creating more stress for your nervous system.

Ah and in case you are wondering, you can't divide your MDMA and get a much smoother comeup, it has a so called threshold effect so until you get to a certain dose (this varies from person to person but most of the time it's between 80mg and 125mg) it feels like a weak stimulant, and then a small increase in dosage causes the WOOOOOOWOOOOOHWOOOOOOOH. Plus while you wait to assess how high you are, if you take too long you are just reducing the power of the peak for no benefit as you will feel exactly as bad when you come down anyway.
But one thing I can say, next time the feeling will be more familiar and should upset you much less as you know you already managed to get through it just fine with no experience.
Anyway regarding your original question, it's hard to say what you would consider close enough in effects to be acceptable.... You might like a moderate dose of LSD, like 80 or 100ugm, or maybe dislike it even more? What's sure is that LSD does not cause more than a bit of tiredness the next day unless you take heroic dosages.
Or maybe 2C-B could be it, or 4-FA.... Take your time to experiment, there is no rush, be safe.

Keep posting here getting the info you need.

 

[Hilopsilo]

Hey friend

I get really crazy comeups as well, I know what you mean by feeling like you're losing control. Been that way since the first time I rolled many years ago. I've tried so many things to try and mitigate that but all I've found I can do is bite the bullet and know that the come-up is only temporary, its a 30 minute hell but its only 30 minutes. To me, the experience is worth that initial turbulence. I always have to literally muster up the courage to down the capsule. Like you say, a big part of this is going from sitting there after you've taken it trying to brace for impact, but nothing can prepare you for being blasted to, as you say 10/10 high and that's it.

I don't experience the negative aftereffects, but what you describe doesn't sound good. MDMA may not be for you if you experience that

 

[epic11]

Hello everyone, as a preface, I tried MDMA (although it wasn't tested) for the first time last month. I took half a pill while my friends took 1 pill each (I am about 45kg). I have a family history of anxiety disorders (but never had to take medication, everything is manageable so far). This is the first ever 'hard drug' I tried (besides weed; that wasn't too intense and more of just chill).

COME UP:
First 15 mins. I didn't feel anything but after 20 mins. or so, it hit me so hard. Music was blasting where we were (in a small private 'EDM' room we rented) and the sound seemed to change in pitch and became more pronounced, and I also got a bit of feeling I was losing control (for a while). Visually, there's very mild distortion like my hands and lower body looked weird (also lasted for a few mins. only), and heart was beating so fast, like ever in my life, started to grind my teeth, and suddenly got a headache (behind my head / upper neck area). I didn't feel cold though (I was actually very warm to touch), just some tingly sensation at the beginning. My friends were also coming up at the same time as me so it didn't help that there was nothing to ground me. Although a good friend somehow stabilised and was able to reassure me to just let go and accept the sensations. And it's not like we're going to hallucinate.

ROLLING:
Anyway, after that harsh come-up, I sat for a few moments to ground myself and accept this new way of seeing things. Well, it felt great (I had a headache but didn't bother me)! After a while, I tried dancing and after that, I couldn't stop. And the music, god, it was wonderful. Every sound was like coming from within me. I had no visuals though. Just maybe a 'dreamy' filter to everything. The feeling to me is like being super high on alcohol without the tiredness / sleepiness / and clumsiness that comes with it. Touching felt really nice. Not like mind-blowing to me, but, there's something extra that I can't describe. I got also very empathetic, like, I was hugging my friends and holding their hands (and they're like that to me also). I took another quarter of a pill (or even smaller) when I felt that the high is coming down and it lasted me for another 3 hours. I didn't feel a come-up with that, just sort of energised me again and sustained my high.

COME DOWN:
Come down the day after wasn't so bad. I felt very tired and there's some numbness all over my body. Felt like throwing up when I tried eating something. Not too hungry. But not depressed and all that. It was the following days that was quite hard for me. I felt quite anxious, mildly depressed and experienced derealisation. Felt that I was still in a "high" state or my brain sort of latched to that feeling and haven't come down to 'normal'. Thought it would last forever, however, I am back to maybe 98% normal after a 3 weeks. But it was very scary and I had to struggle in those weeks to keep myself calm and remind myself of how it feels to be normal. Part of the war that's happening in my mind is that the rolling felt so good but having to go through all these negative emotions (before and after) makes me want to avoid it in the future.

TLDR:
Really enjoyed rolling (even just for the way the music sounded so heavenly and how I felt so energetic) but going through 6 hours of 'euphoria' seems not worth it if I would experience all the come-up anxiety and come-down deralisation/anxiety/mild depression. I don't mind the physical come down (tiredness, nausea, etc.). More on the mental come down that concerns me.

So I'd like to ask, is there any alternative to MDMA that has a smoother come-up and no come-down but kind of close to the vibe you get from it? If none, then is there a way to make:

1) The come up smoother, as if like drinking alcohol? At least with alcohol, I am gradually getting higher. This one is like, here you go, you're 10/10 high and that's it. I don't have the option to just stay at level 5 high, then later maybe go to 6, 7. Feel like I am more in control this way. I am also quite a sensitive person so half a pill's stimulation was an overload (at the beginning).
2) Is my feeling of derealisation due to having experienced it for the first time? Like, my brain got shocked since it has never experienced this before. Maybe next time, I'd have a knowledge that it will pass so I can recover faster?

Any advise? Thanks!

Nothing feels like mdma, and it sounds like you had one hell of a time with it. haha. 2c-b is a LITTLE (VERY LITTLE) like it, but way more visual. I get the same come up thing when its gonna be good. Just make sure you eat a bit before dropping, it calms my stomach. (like 3 hours prior, and not a HUGE meal, but enough to feel satisifed) You can also try ginger before rolling, its good for nausea. Welcome to mdma, its a beautiful world.

Edit: To add, you did break a huge harm reduction rule and took more when you felt you were coming down. Big no-no there. Only take 1 initial dose, and if you must take more, get a re-dose about half that of the intial into you by 45-1 hour. Anything after that is dangerous, and doesnt add to the experience.

 

[AutoTripper]

Anything after that is dangerous, and doesnt add to the experience.

I'm not disputing your advice at all, but I still have to disagree with that. Redosing worked very well for me at any time intervals, to a point of course and depending on both circumstances and product.

But no way was MDMA ever anywhere near like LSD in that sense and redosing would always produce a very worthwhile effect and add to the experience I was always able to achieve dramatically higher, more transcendental and deeply hallucinogenic states by re dosing which I never could have achieved otherwise.

Like 3 good pills, spread out through the night at least 4 hours apart for example and the second and third pill would work just as well as the first one and my high hi and intensity of the experience would increase to the same degree as the very first pill take me from being sober.

Taking the additional two pills in this scenario would result in a much longer and more hallucinogenic experience and afterglow compared to only taking the one pill at the start of the night.

Was always my experience at least. With respect of course, I'm not suggesting that your own experience and that of others could not be completely different,

 

[Phobos]

I'm not disputing your advice at all, but I still have to disagree with that. Redosing worked very well for me at any time intervals, to a point of course and depending on both circumstances and product.

But no way was MDMA ever anywhere near like LSD in that sense and redosing would always produce a very worthwhile effect and add to the experience I was always able to achieve dramatically higher, more transcendental and deeply hallucinogenic states by re dosing which I never could have achieved otherwise.

Like 3 good pills, spread out through the night at least 4 hours apart for example and the second and third pill would work just as well as the first one and my high hi and intensity of the experience would increase to the same degree as the very first pill take me from being sober.

Taking the additional two pills in this scenario would result in a much longer and more hallucinogenic experience and afterglow compared to only taking the one pill at the start of the night.

Was always my experience at least. With respect of course, I'm not suggesting that your own experience and that of others could not be completely different,

A metabolite of MDMA is MDA via demethylation in the liver, IIRC about only 7% of the MDMA is converted but this ofcourse varies from person to person.
For some reason, it is when redosing multiple times during a session that the roll will become more hallucinogenic and erratic/confusing, at least this is my anecdotal experience.

 

[AutoTripper]

A me


A metabolite of MDMA is MDA via demethylation in the liver, IIRC about only 7% of the MDMA is converted but this ofcourse varies from person to person.
For some reason, it is when redosing multiple times during a session that the roll will become more hallucinogenic and erratic/confusing, at least this is my anecdotal experience.

Yeah not disagreeing with you there on the established facts. However, I think this factor is actually way overemphasised as an explanation for more hallucinogenic effects with redosing and highwr dosing.

Sure there is an increase in MDA and this plays a part in the process, but MDMA is hallucinogenic itself past a certain threshold. I mean, that small % of MDA is nowhere near enough for me to account for the undoubted increase in all effects including hallucinogenic from redosing. Which again, always worked brilliantly for me.

I would have so many sessions, some of the absolute best, purest, most blissful, transcendental experiences wouldmcome from splitting my doses over 24 to 48 hours. For example, 3 very good clean strong pills over a night, maybe 10 hours.

Then another 2 the following afternoon. Words could not describe the magic and wonder of those final pills and the sheer beauty of the prolonged social occasion spent with friends. Having stabilised with such a steady, complete but together high and buzz by the morning, but still rolling hard, in a perfectly happy and content frame of mind....redosing those 2 pills, apart, would do way more in terms of qualitative effects and level of enjoyment, bliss and euphoria than the first night.

In these type of circumstances in particular, I would always get the strongest and most magical effects from MDMA.

It just wasn't the case that it didn't work or produce an effect, quite the opposite at times. So this particular piece of modern MDMA folklore still has me perplexed.