doorknob
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I was under the impression that 'brain' was really strong putty amphetamine, ie looks like a sweaty little rat brain in a bag.
Still dumb.
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Amphetamine: What actually is it?
- Thread starter infinity2k7
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I was under the impression that 'brain' was really strong putty amphetamine, ie looks like a sweaty little rat brain in a bag.
Still dumb.
doorknob
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Cheers man. Unfortunately I'm all out of IPA so shall have to wait for another day. I presumed glucose would dissolve as well as sugar.
Most places seem to say IPA won't dissolve amp? And will dissolve glucose sparingly?
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doorknob
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You're correct, just tried myself. Why didn't I try this before I wasted all that time. Not a complete loss though, the powder doesn't burn the nose anymore and has no smell really! The acetone definitely took something, evaped it and got a slightly yellow gunk. Wonder what it could be?
Mendo_K
Ex-Bluelighter
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Always good to have a look at recent lab results, heres a few from a german website, about 15 tested with % ranging from 6% pure to 88.9%, with the majority of the results containing 4-MeA, have a look anyway.
http://saferparty.ch/tl_files/images/download/file/Warnungen_PDF_2013/Amphi_Dez_Januar_2013.pdf
http://saferparty.ch/tl_files/images/download/file/Warnungen_PDF_2013/Amphi_Dez_Januar_2013.pdf
Mailmonkey
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i love this thread, just for its title. 
amphetamine oil
hi all ,just a comment on what people are calling paste,its starts as an oil then its mashed into paste ,years ago I saw some of the process only a quick look an hour or so that is ,the guy had cooked a brown looking liquid for seven days in a large round bottom pirex flask that was being heated in a dome shape heater box thing ,the glass tube had foil around it that he cleaned now and again he said ,it had like white fur inside that he said had to be cleared now and again .this tube was vented near an open window as there was a real strong smell of ammonia ,he had an old style Italian coffee steam machine that he fired into this mix with another tube going to a long z shaped watercooled tube which then went to a glass collector flask with a small tap on it to separate the oil from the steam water mixture .he then had this oil which he mixed into a paste ,he called this mash .can anyone expand on this process or method ,what was in the mixture boiling for seven days or so ?happy to exchahge info in private message ,peace all .
hi all ,just a comment on what people are calling paste,its starts as an oil then its mashed into paste ,years ago I saw some of the process only a quick look an hour or so that is ,the guy had cooked a brown looking liquid for seven days in a large round bottom pirex flask that was being heated in a dome shape heater box thing ,the glass tube had foil around it that he cleaned now and again he said ,it had like white fur inside that he said had to be cleared now and again .this tube was vented near an open window as there was a real strong smell of ammonia ,he had an old style Italian coffee steam machine that he fired into this mix with another tube going to a long z shaped watercooled tube which then went to a glass collector flask with a small tap on it to separate the oil from the steam water mixture .he then had this oil which he mixed into a paste ,he called this mash .can anyone expand on this process or method ,what was in the mixture boiling for seven days or so ?happy to exchahge info in private message ,peace all .
fastandbulbous
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AlphaMethylPHenEThylAMINE (the upper case letters indicate where the name comes from). As for the question about freebase, amphetamine freebase is an oily liquid that smells of geranium (honest, the pissy smell is due to it not having pharmaceutical levels of quality control, The reagents used to synth it, like formamide, all have less than aesthetically pleasing odours, even in trace amounts: Pure formamide smells like a cage a rat/mouse has pissed in). Paste is a soggy mess because most of the common amphetamine salts absorb water from the atmosphere to some degree (amphetamine sulphate absorbs some, if they produced the hydrochloride salt, it would totally dissolve in the amount of water it'd absorb from the atmosphere). Hopefully, one day, someone will think it's a good idea to produce amphetamine tartrate - then you'd get a nice dry powder that didn't sting when it went up yer hooter and wouldn't go all soggy if not kept in airtight containers.
If it's amphetamine sulphate (which in nearly every case it will be), it won't dissolve in isopropanol nor just about any other solvent than water. Sulphate salts are too polar to dissolve in organic solvents. If you want to purify it, dissolve as much as it's possible to dissolve in very hot water (ie form a saturated solution), then let it cool down slowly and you'll get rosette type formation of needle shaped crystals (it's much more soluble in hot water than cold water). Pour off the remaining solution (keep it, it still has some amphetamine sulphate dissolved in it along with all the glucose), wash with absolutely dry isopropyl alcohol and then leave to dry and you'll have fairly neat amphetamine sulphate crystals. Very pretty & fluffy (ideal if you want to use antisocial routes of administration!)
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infinity2k7
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Sorry to bump this thread but i obtained a new batch of speed from NL lately and this came to mind yet again after the annoyance of even trying to get it out of the bag properly. There is liquid in the double vac sealed bag and then a 'special?' bag that stops it from burning through it possibly. It's a mess overall, like usual. So this inconclusive thread came to mind again.
Facts i know is that leaving it out to dry definitely loses a ton of weight and potency. Even in the freezer you need to vacuum seal it. This suggests amphetamine freebase, which is definitely volatile - the original amphetamine back in the day sold was inhalers; you can catch and inhale the gas that comes off this product (when opening a box of the stuff this became clear). I've tried speed from i guess the 'top' made in west Europe, the good base in the UK, and the worst overpriced powder at the bottom.
The whole process makes no sense still to me though, except one theory came to mind (as to why it's made in bulk in a half-liquid form by the labs in Holland/Belgium). If seized product is not vacuum sealed it will actually lose a lot of weight - from 2008 to 2009 UK purity of amphetamine imports was 9%, then 44% (??). And the fact this actually lowers the seized weight a lot, which is what they convict on. The price has also kept going down suggesting its more in supply than ever, it's large amounts to be moved and this could be a clever method to evaporate evidence. The 9% seizure being possibly a evaporated seizure and the 44% being the actual full shipment? Why would you risk 91% inert product when transporting.
Otherwise why not just make sulphate and cut? All the labs seem to make this shit in some form, the process of making this liquid-paste is deliberate. I should note i had polish speed once it might have been dried out but it did seem like actual sulphate, in rocks.
Other things; a friend purified the paste to powder and it came out 30% or so of the weight. I don't know if its racemic or how this comes into it. But the 30% left still works as intended. But if you even DRINK the horrible liquid out of the bag its extremely strong. Could this be a mixture of both? The police always say ALL speed is amphetamine sulphate i notice too.
One funny thing it means is that any speed paste not vacuum sealed across the whole country loses potency slowly. The amount lost overall, haha. It probably ends up powder at the bottom of the chain simply cause its been cut and evaporated. Hence the absolute shit purity average from street seizures.
To the posts on this page;
This was not simply water taken in from the air, even if it does do that. there was liquid in the bag, lots of it. I accidentally sucked a lot of it out with a vacuum sealer stupidly. I understand what you are saying but further down the chain it gets less pastey not more pastey. If i asked to buy a LOT it would still be the most liquid stuff. I think they might actually produce both freebase and sulphate, in some kind of mixture, at the lab level. Also i thought the cleaning method was acetone.
The oil post above even anecdotal seems to back this up, thats not the method to make sulphate. Also the post about German purity ranging so heavily. 5% speed would be 50mg for a gram lets keep in mind. Someone might get that i guess, but i actually think its stronger and just isn't properly checked before it starts to get ruined. I think 5 was the average in the UK one year.. like 5 dexedrine tablets basically from a gram? and thats the average? and 10 quid a gram or something. Ridiculous. I wonder the turnover of purity checking after seizure.
Facts i know is that leaving it out to dry definitely loses a ton of weight and potency. Even in the freezer you need to vacuum seal it. This suggests amphetamine freebase, which is definitely volatile - the original amphetamine back in the day sold was inhalers; you can catch and inhale the gas that comes off this product (when opening a box of the stuff this became clear). I've tried speed from i guess the 'top' made in west Europe, the good base in the UK, and the worst overpriced powder at the bottom.
The whole process makes no sense still to me though, except one theory came to mind (as to why it's made in bulk in a half-liquid form by the labs in Holland/Belgium). If seized product is not vacuum sealed it will actually lose a lot of weight - from 2008 to 2009 UK purity of amphetamine imports was 9%, then 44% (??). And the fact this actually lowers the seized weight a lot, which is what they convict on. The price has also kept going down suggesting its more in supply than ever, it's large amounts to be moved and this could be a clever method to evaporate evidence. The 9% seizure being possibly a evaporated seizure and the 44% being the actual full shipment? Why would you risk 91% inert product when transporting.
Otherwise why not just make sulphate and cut? All the labs seem to make this shit in some form, the process of making this liquid-paste is deliberate. I should note i had polish speed once it might have been dried out but it did seem like actual sulphate, in rocks.
Other things; a friend purified the paste to powder and it came out 30% or so of the weight. I don't know if its racemic or how this comes into it. But the 30% left still works as intended. But if you even DRINK the horrible liquid out of the bag its extremely strong. Could this be a mixture of both? The police always say ALL speed is amphetamine sulphate i notice too.
One funny thing it means is that any speed paste not vacuum sealed across the whole country loses potency slowly. The amount lost overall, haha. It probably ends up powder at the bottom of the chain simply cause its been cut and evaporated. Hence the absolute shit purity average from street seizures.
To the posts on this page;
This was not simply water taken in from the air, even if it does do that. there was liquid in the bag, lots of it. I accidentally sucked a lot of it out with a vacuum sealer stupidly. I understand what you are saying but further down the chain it gets less pastey not more pastey. If i asked to buy a LOT it would still be the most liquid stuff. I think they might actually produce both freebase and sulphate, in some kind of mixture, at the lab level. Also i thought the cleaning method was acetone.
The oil post above even anecdotal seems to back this up, thats not the method to make sulphate. Also the post about German purity ranging so heavily. 5% speed would be 50mg for a gram lets keep in mind. Someone might get that i guess, but i actually think its stronger and just isn't properly checked before it starts to get ruined. I think 5 was the average in the UK one year.. like 5 dexedrine tablets basically from a gram? and thats the average? and 10 quid a gram or something. Ridiculous. I wonder the turnover of purity checking after seizure.
LearntYoung
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This topic is way too big to completely read through, but I've read a few lines of text and I'll just add my 2 cents to this topic. Hopefully it answers questions, but I don't know what questions are asked %)
Dealers often keep amphetamine as paste, because it's easier for them to handle and keep than dry powder. Drying their amounts takes forever, makes a mess and easily loses product in the process. Also, they can sell less actual product for more money, because it appears to be about twice as much as it actually is. Lastly, users often think paste is fresh from production or even think it's more pure. These last 2 points are a myth, since it can just as easily be stored and/or cut in paste form.
On the user's side, however, it's important to dry the paste and only use dried powder. The solvent used could be methanol, whch is highly toxic. It causes blindness and ultimately death. Whatever solvent used, it evaporates easily at room temperature, but faster on a heated plate or something alike. Don't put the paste in the oven or microwave, because this could damage the amphetamine and definitely makes the device smell like chemical waste for at least a week. Drying the paste doesn't cause product loss and doesn't decrease the quality. Even when storing, it doesn't make much of a difference if you keep it as paste or dried. If anything, keeping it as paste would be less durable, because equilibrium reactions could reverse when there's leftover materials in the paste.
The only reason to ever store amphetamine sulphate in a freezer would be when you plan to keep it for over a year or two. The molecule is extremely stable and the loss of effectiveness at room temperature is negligible.
After drying the paste, I would personally highly recommend washing it with acetone. After drying, because otherwise you'll lose some product. An acetone wash not only filters out caffeine if your speed is cut, but it also dissolves leftover materials, like sulphuric acid, which tend to give a nasty burn if you're snorting it. After washing with acetone, it will be dry again in no-ime. There are two points that are important when washing:
1. Always use anhydrous acetone. If it contains water, you'll also dissolve the amphetamine and everything will pass through the filter. In case this happened by mistake, you can just evaporate the acetone/water and you'll get your speed back, just not washed yet.
2. Be aware that the resulting product is extremely dry. You'll only need to slightly insufflate if you're snorting, because it'll end up in your lungs, leaving you coughing and wasting speed, because it won't be absorbed as it should, if at all. Even when you're orally dosing, be careful as you can easily blow it away. Think of it as dust.
I often talk to people who are claiming I waste my speed by washing, because I'm left with less in terms of weight. The weight however, doesn't equal the amount of amphetamine. If I wanted to use caffeine or whatever, I'd just purchase that. I prefer a clean product over bigger lines and more side effects.
Do I have more to say? I guess not. I wanted to add a news article about methanol poisoning with speed users, but I can't find it anymore.
Feel free to comment or ask questions.
Dealers often keep amphetamine as paste, because it's easier for them to handle and keep than dry powder. Drying their amounts takes forever, makes a mess and easily loses product in the process. Also, they can sell less actual product for more money, because it appears to be about twice as much as it actually is. Lastly, users often think paste is fresh from production or even think it's more pure. These last 2 points are a myth, since it can just as easily be stored and/or cut in paste form.
On the user's side, however, it's important to dry the paste and only use dried powder. The solvent used could be methanol, whch is highly toxic. It causes blindness and ultimately death. Whatever solvent used, it evaporates easily at room temperature, but faster on a heated plate or something alike. Don't put the paste in the oven or microwave, because this could damage the amphetamine and definitely makes the device smell like chemical waste for at least a week. Drying the paste doesn't cause product loss and doesn't decrease the quality. Even when storing, it doesn't make much of a difference if you keep it as paste or dried. If anything, keeping it as paste would be less durable, because equilibrium reactions could reverse when there's leftover materials in the paste.
The only reason to ever store amphetamine sulphate in a freezer would be when you plan to keep it for over a year or two. The molecule is extremely stable and the loss of effectiveness at room temperature is negligible.
After drying the paste, I would personally highly recommend washing it with acetone. After drying, because otherwise you'll lose some product. An acetone wash not only filters out caffeine if your speed is cut, but it also dissolves leftover materials, like sulphuric acid, which tend to give a nasty burn if you're snorting it. After washing with acetone, it will be dry again in no-ime. There are two points that are important when washing:
1. Always use anhydrous acetone. If it contains water, you'll also dissolve the amphetamine and everything will pass through the filter. In case this happened by mistake, you can just evaporate the acetone/water and you'll get your speed back, just not washed yet.
2. Be aware that the resulting product is extremely dry. You'll only need to slightly insufflate if you're snorting, because it'll end up in your lungs, leaving you coughing and wasting speed, because it won't be absorbed as it should, if at all. Even when you're orally dosing, be careful as you can easily blow it away. Think of it as dust.
I often talk to people who are claiming I waste my speed by washing, because I'm left with less in terms of weight. The weight however, doesn't equal the amount of amphetamine. If I wanted to use caffeine or whatever, I'd just purchase that. I prefer a clean product over bigger lines and more side effects.
Do I have more to say? I guess not. I wanted to add a news article about methanol poisoning with speed users, but I can't find it anymore.
Feel free to comment or ask questions.
-5 years of use / experience + 5 years of reading about drugs
-Studied chemistry for a year
-Currently studying pharmacy
-Erowid
-Other drug forums
I'm sorry for not linking, but the Erowid part contained synth info and the other drug forums are Dutch.
-Studied chemistry for a year
-Currently studying pharmacy
-Erowid
-Other drug forums
I'm sorry for not linking, but the Erowid part contained synth info and the other drug forums are Dutch.
infinity2k7
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- Aug 1, 2007
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Hi i respect your experience and opinion but i have my own some of which i would not like to go into detail, i did say some earlier in the thread. I'll just quickly go point by point.
The dealers above me did not make it into a paste. I did not want it as a paste. Weighing out paste is disgusting, it's harder to do anything with! They have to package it specifically so it doesn't burn through the plastic bags it comes in. It certainly is heavier wet ofc but the price has only gone down and the quality remains the same. If i hypothetically bought kilos of speed it would be this stuff i'm describing unless there's a large variation in production in Holland. It is definitely higher up from the production, who else even has the means to attempt to make it? If i got it as a powder, i would not pour a strange liquid in it (which you admit you aren't sure is even water) to bulk it up... i'd mix with glucose or whatever usual cut.
After its gone from Holland through middlemen, it often is a more dry paste, or a powder. But the wettest strongest paste i had was from close enough to the source, trust me! For years, except the single one time it was bizarre orange d-amp supposedly.
I know it sounds weird but have you actually tried the extremely wet paste? Maybe you'd see it's stronger.. although my main thought is still, why does it have any large pools of liquid in. The people i buy from are not the types to fuck around with poor quality product, the amphetamine is so cheap in the first place..
I'd like to know some of the dutch synthesis info if you can provide it in pm. A picture of the final step of freebase to sulphate; and then nothing about making a strange pastey substance. I've NEVER seen bulk amphetamine powder. It's always been more liquid, i'm sure other people will back me up on this? Also i should note i even have heard of Australians talking about paste. So its prehaps not unique to NL/BE production.
ps: one time i tested just solely drying a batch. the result was so weak. A friend who did a proper clean though, his end result was quite good although i hadn't had any speed in a long time.
The dealers above me did not make it into a paste. I did not want it as a paste. Weighing out paste is disgusting, it's harder to do anything with! They have to package it specifically so it doesn't burn through the plastic bags it comes in. It certainly is heavier wet ofc but the price has only gone down and the quality remains the same. If i hypothetically bought kilos of speed it would be this stuff i'm describing unless there's a large variation in production in Holland. It is definitely higher up from the production, who else even has the means to attempt to make it? If i got it as a powder, i would not pour a strange liquid in it (which you admit you aren't sure is even water) to bulk it up... i'd mix with glucose or whatever usual cut.
After its gone from Holland through middlemen, it often is a more dry paste, or a powder. But the wettest strongest paste i had was from close enough to the source, trust me! For years, except the single one time it was bizarre orange d-amp supposedly.
I know it sounds weird but have you actually tried the extremely wet paste? Maybe you'd see it's stronger.. although my main thought is still, why does it have any large pools of liquid in. The people i buy from are not the types to fuck around with poor quality product, the amphetamine is so cheap in the first place..
I'd like to know some of the dutch synthesis info if you can provide it in pm. A picture of the final step of freebase to sulphate; and then nothing about making a strange pastey substance. I've NEVER seen bulk amphetamine powder. It's always been more liquid, i'm sure other people will back me up on this? Also i should note i even have heard of Australians talking about paste. So its prehaps not unique to NL/BE production.
ps: one time i tested just solely drying a batch. the result was so weak. A friend who did a proper clean though, his end result was quite good although i hadn't had any speed in a long time.
LearntYoung
Bluelighter
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- Jun 26, 2014
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Read that first paragraph of mine again 
It's not that dealers add any solvent, it's still there from production, because it would slow down the production and require more space. Dealers pay for the wet weight and therefore want to sell for that as well, simple. But believe me, having a dust-like powder to distribute would result in different struggles than you had. With a wet paste, you could even use volumetric dosing instead of having to weigh everything.
I could PM you about the synthesis, but I won't, because I can't imagine synthesis discussions being allowed.
Just know that it's either Methanol or Isopropyl Alcohol that's in your paste. IPA isn't as dangerous as Methanol, but takes longer to evaporate. Methanol is more expensive.
It's not that dealers add any solvent, it's still there from production, because it would slow down the production and require more space. Dealers pay for the wet weight and therefore want to sell for that as well, simple. But believe me, having a dust-like powder to distribute would result in different struggles than you had. With a wet paste, you could even use volumetric dosing instead of having to weigh everything.I could PM you about the synthesis, but I won't, because I can't imagine synthesis discussions being allowed.
Just know that it's either Methanol or Isopropyl Alcohol that's in your paste. IPA isn't as dangerous as Methanol, but takes longer to evaporate. Methanol is more expensive.
SmokingAces
Bluelighter
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Extremely wet means it is still completely immersed in solvents. "Base" amphetamine isn't freebase it is exactly as LearntYoung says. I've also had stuff exactly like you describe and it dried to only like 50% of it's weight. It was strong stuff for sure. If you think your supply is somehow best because it's wet though think again even buying from the main distributors you can get drier stuff which if your counting the actual weight of amphetamine not solvents is a better deal. There is also loads of variation between sellers. What you have may not be cut but it's full of production solvents which are potentially dangerous and it has not been given the final wash.
ferrett1979
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- May 15, 2003
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All the 'dutch' stuff lately dries out super quick but ive never noticed a change in potency. I love to snort so that's why i dry out and obviously it's much easier to handle. A very small 'bomb' certainly does the trick too. This stuff is like rocket fuel, a tiny line has u going for hours and the high is alot nicer than what i remember from the later 90s and the comedown isnt that bad unless u do a lot.
packet_sniffer
Bluelighter
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The last batch of dutch amphetamine paste I had was very wet. It stunk of left over solvents. Dried it out and got about 50% back. Quality was good. A small line had me going for 10 hours. If I was guess I would say anywhere from 40% to 80% purity. If it's good quality I can binge on dutch paste for 3 days without sleep.
F.U.B.A.R.
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