Amphetamine: What actually is it?

[infinity2k7]

So i've received some amphetamine from Holland and as most usual it's almost liquid barely a paste.. like putty. Yet it is the strongest stuff i've had for ages and the pattern has gone that the most liquid it was it was stronger. Last time i dried it out in a cupboard to make it into some form which was less annoying to handle and it was noticeably weaker - some say they didn't notice a difference but this was a very big difference. I didn't freeze it i kept at room temp and by the end it was so much weaker (not tolerance).

Yet i read in threads on this board this isn't amphetamine freebase? Cause it really seems like it is amphetamine freebase with a cut to try and soak it up. A comment from the supplier made it sound like they just rush the process and if done right it's actually a much more solid putty with the same potency, which once i got (although it was also bright orange just that time??). People it's all myths, it doesn't disappear and it's simple amphetamine sulphate with cuts yet it definitely does get less potent if you dry it out. It's rather confusing because fact is, it's very cheap, and there's hardly much need for producers to go to the effort to fake freebase and make it in a very annoying almost-liquid form when it's actually sulphate.

Is it being converted to sulphate after uk dealers get it prehaps and then turned into the 'fake paste', and then right down to the powder 5-10% shit? Cause it seems like otherwise the producers might as well just make pure sulphate or phosphate and avoid any drying/cutting (which they apparently have avoided anyway by skipping it). They are happy to give out as pure as possible MDMA, just assuming it's the same organizations, so would they really be doing this all as a ruse just to cut it 20-30% and make it a paste? Even then, cutting sulphate/phosphate would be just as easy if not easier.

So is this a similar experience for others or unusual? It seems like the same actual chemists setting up this production for years so i guess they know what they are doing but it's quite confusing.

 

[Shambles]

I'm far from knowledgable about the chemistry side but was always under the impression that "base" isn't actually a freebase at all generally. Proper freebase is incredibly unstable and caustic and not fit for human consumption.

I do know that when I used to get "base" (and meth and sulphate powder) direct from the chemist "base" was just an oily liquid - not even remotely pastey - which needed heavy cutting to turn into paste and evaporated frighteningly fast unless kept extremely cold.

I also know that oldskool suplphate powder kicks the shit outta most stuff sold as "base" these days. I suspect most of said "dry base/powder" these days is just the cut leftover after the fumes have wafted away.

 

[missing old pills]

And ffs keep paste in the fridge. *sighs with hand on head*

 

[infinity2k7]

I'm far from knowledgable about the chemistry side but was always under the impression that "base" isn't actually a freebase at all generally. Proper freebase is incredibly unstable and caustic and not fit for human consumption.

I do know that when I used to get "base" (and meth and sulphate powder) direct from the chemist "base" was just an oily liquid - not even remotely pastey - which needed heavy cutting to turn into paste and evaporated frighteningly fast unless kept extremely cold.

I also know that oldskool suplphate powder kicks the shit outta most stuff sold as "base" these days. I suspect most of said "dry base/powder" these days is just the cut leftover after the fumes have wafted away.

Yeah this is very much like that; and i doubt it's been cut since coming from the producers, so from the 'top' i imagine.. then why would sulphate be almost a liquid, especially when it disappears after time. It could just be a pure powder and cut but then its been turned into this for some reason. As i said one time it was just as strong, somehow bright orange (i dunno if BMK or one of the precusors is orange maybe?) and in a solid composition completely, rather than a thick gloopy white mess. Also it didn't smell half as bad.

I saw some Europol thing saying it's a 'relatively' new thing to make amp into paste/liquid form to go into the UK (even though it's not is it?), but i hardly think the guy who provided bothered to water it down or whatever it is for no particular reason. They seem overly generous with the MDMA amounts in pills/crystal lately so it'd be funny if they were being really cheap and cutting this stuff up just solely for profit.

 

[missing old pills]

I don't suppose it smells like cat's piss does it?

Old schooler's will know paste has been around since the 90's so I don't know what the international plod are gassing about.

 

[Shambles]

I really don't have a clue. But when buying direct from the chemist he offered liquid "base" and powder "sulphate" as separate products. I always kinda assumed the liquid (what gets turned to base paste generally as far as I know - did when I was... involved in that scene anyway) was freebase but have been informed time and time again since that this is highly unlikely. Still, the fact that the liquid is for sure highly unstable and deeply caustic kinda suggests that maybe it actually was?

Fuck knows in short.

But I do know that whether it comes as liquid, paste or powder it can still be eye-wateringly potent stuff. Powder is just easiest to handle. Folks seem to expect paste to the extent that you probably couldn't sell even the best sulphate powder without adding water these days though

PS: The liquid I got was always yellowish, unbelievably stinky (like clear a house out in seconds stinky) and needed to be kept in the freezer if you wanted owt left 24h or so later. Paste was just the same with shitloads of cut added. Powder always came as a seperate product for the oldskool crowd.

PPS: Was the early 90s when I was getting such things direct from source so definitely not a new trend. "Base" was the new kid on the block at the time - just taking over from oldskool sulphate powder but still seen as a new thing on the market. At least where I lived at the time.

 

[effie]

You could try dissolving a bit in water? I'd imagine the freebase would be insoluble..

 

[missing old pills]

The reason I mention the cats piss stuff if anyone remembers that long ago is that it was wicked

Ah the old daze

 

[Shambles]

You could try dissolving a bit in water? I'd imagine the freebase would be insoluble..

Now that, Ms Eff, is a very good point indeed. And a point against the freebase theory cos all the speed I've ever had in any form is injectable without the need for acid.

 

[missing old pills]

Now that, Ms Eff, is a very good point indeed. And a point against the freebase theory cos all the speed I've ever had in any form is injectable without the need for acid.

Ah shammy as you well know the freebase of speed and MDMA are liquids which must have an acid (in the case of speed is sulphuric acid) so you can make your solid which can either be a paste or a dry powder of which paste eventually ends.

The freebase of these two drugs as you know and have stated is an oily liquid.
It would therefore float on the water.
Water would not seperate the freebase out of the finished product but letting it dry will cause changes to it's strength.

Maybe a clever person with chemisry knowledge could clear this up

 

[Shambles]

Tis odd that, Mopster. Liquid "base" I had was always injectable so can't really be freebase... I think???

This was way back when it was a new thing so adding cut to liquid to make it more user-friendly was as advanced as we got. No idea about acid/base conversions or whatever is required to do a proper job. No idea then and precious little more of an idea now, tbh.

Saying that, I vaguely recall the oil didn't exactly "dissolve" in water but was easy enough to suck up into the pin alongside the added water so the pendulum swings back to freebase territory. Perhaps.

Answers on a postcard.

 

[effie]

It might not be insoluble in water haha I am no chemist.. I thought it was though.

Where's Vader when we need him..

 

[infinity2k7]

Yeah i will try that, i noticed it was mentioned insoluble. It would be nice to clear this up... official sources seem to call it all aamphetamine sulphate too as well. Although btw i thought only MDMA freebase was caustic? Anecdotally some say pure sulphate would not smell and taste so disgusting. Maybe they are too lazy to go freebase - sulphate and skip a step, add some cuts in and ship it out. Maybe the cuts/impurities and freebase would explain the (subjective i suppose) difference in feeling between it and pharma racemic amphetamine.

I dunno just some thoughts but the mystery remains. I see some pics of nice rocks of sulphate which would be much nicer to have. Maybe the fact freebase is apparently a volatile oil so more like to vaporize, and not caustic, explains some things? Seems even less reason to leave it as that.. probably why its cheap.

Infact actually it surely proves it is freebase because sulphate would not lose the potency at all this definitely does even when not being deliberately dried, hence instruction to freeze.

 

[missing old pills]

It's a mad one but there are alot of injectable drugs that come in a liquid form it's just a freebase is what it is- too basic and requires acid to bring it closer to neutral.

That should clear up any people who wonder why some drugs burn fuck out of their noses.

Too basic or too acidic = ouch!

I reckon your chemist friend back in the day could have cleared this one up.

On another thought 'fuck shammy you must of took off!'

 

[Shambles]

Mopster you have no idea 8(

Sadly I was way too young, naive and generally ignorant to have even thought to ask let alone understand the answer. Chemist fella was the real deal though for sure. Supplied large parts of the country with phet "back in the day". Went by the name of "Fingers" on account of having less than the usual number of 'em. Ka-boom! Phet chemistry can be kinda explosive so I hear :D

 

[Allein]

The reason I mention the cats piss stuff if anyone remembers that long ago is that it was wicked

Ah the old daze

Yep, I was very lucky in this respect as I had a personal friend who also happened to be a the main speed supplier for the area so he used to take delivery of the actual paste and then in another location (I never ask questions I don't actually need the answers to) someone else would cut it down with glucose, this was way before anyone started talking about "base speed". It definitely wasn't freebase but it was strong as fek. He didn't sell it like that to many people just a few mates that he knew wouldn't be stupid with the stuff and go banging an 1/8 in one go and ending up dead !

It did stink to high heaven, Sometime I would dry a but out on a radiator and cut it down to snort it but mostly just necked it, always did wizz before starting on the MDXX just to get the evening started and it helped when you had to drive through police road blocks etc

 

[effie]

atm I have a wonderful image of you hyped up on super-strong speed busting through road blocks and laughing at the police you left behind %)

Speed in this country really is shocking. Had some friends go to a festival abroad and the speed they got was so much better, smallish bit (by UK standards) kept them up for 3 days solid..

Does annoy me when people call it "base", fuck off is it amphetamine freebase. OP, you're more likely to have got it than the average person here from your story, but I am still a lil skeptical..

I think dealers make sulphate into a putty and call it freebase for two reasons - it sounds better haha, people want some "base", and adding sugar and a load of water to it increases the weight by a lot (more than just adding a cry cut) > more profit..

 

[Acid4Blood]

Top layer = amphetamine freebase.

Freebase is seperated.

Freebase + sulphuric acid + isopropanol = amphetamine sulphate.

Filtrated.

Dried.

 

[Myshkin]

My theory is that the name 'base' came about because somebody misheard 'paste' and conflated it with 'basing' cocaine.

Also, bear in mind that the terminology came to prominence in the nineties, when jungle music was co-opted (and watered down) by Whitey, and suddenly 'bass' was the word on everybody's lips.

Drug terminology more often than not has its roots in stupidity and ignorance.

 

[effie]

^ I like that hypothesis! Base makes it just sound better and like a different beast to regular ol' speed..

Give me powder any day, I need to snort it for the higher bioavailability and putty is a faff to prepare for that