Stimulants Amphetamine makes you kinda of autistic

[surge]

I started taking around 30 mg oral street amphetamine every day for therapeutic use. I don't want to explain it since this post is about something else, BTW it worked like a chair, I've got all the effects I expected. BUT I have good evidence that amphetamine make people antisocial because of reduced serotonin release, and in some cases it is an unwanted effect. Meth probably less or contrary because at high doses releases serotonin also!
It is well known dopamine2 receptors inhibit serotonin release -I was a little bit wrong, it is well known that serotonin inhibit dopamine release, maybe it isn't viceversa, if so there must be another pathway that lead to low serotonin release-,, probably because serotonin, empathy and stuff can be annoying when you just want to reach a goal so evolution made the brain in this way. But it is too much.
When I'm on speed I can't make eye contact for more than 10 seconds, it feels so strange and that's because of serotonin (oxytocin in reality, but it is released from serotonin pathways). I also don't have empathy, not just that I don't feel sad when someone tells me a sad story lol, but really I can't understand if someone is angry at me, or just how he feels and what kind of character it has.
This is especially a problem on speed because you just talk talk talk talk and since you lack of empathy you'll probably talk about nothing or yourself which is annoying if you do it too much (like how you do on speed), and since you don't understand when you should stop you'll end with being insulted or something lol. On amph I'am very interested in listening to others, but while I can perfectly comprehend what others says I can't process it from an emotional prospective and I answer something I would never say normally because it is just useless and not what the other one wants to listen.
With my friends nothing happens, also because they know I'm experimenting with speed these days, but all the new people I had a chance to talk literally just run away after a little bit, EVERYONE lol, even if I tried to limit myself, but like I cannot have more empathy by myself, the best I can do is just stop talking which is not something I want. Of course people with low serotonin like autistic people are not antisocial (against society, that hurt society or just people), but with speed you become antisocial because you don't give a fuck about anything and since you like to talk you just keep annoying people forever, this is antisocial; also for this you don't have social anxiety even with low serotonin I think.
Anyway this has to be fixed in chronic use. I'm thinking about combining speed with some non neurotoxic nor cardiotoxic mdma analog like MDAI or just switching to mephedrone. It is a relevant problem, for me at least. I also miss serotonin, relations now are just like work. I just want to know if this is relatable, is it? Also what do you think about combining an entactogen?

 

[Snafu in the Void]

How long have you been taking amphetamines and how much do you sleep/eat?

It may be bringing out mild autism you already have. I can relate to what you're saying to some degree. The stims are likely exacerbating symptoms you already have rather than inducing them.

I would highly advise against mixing phenethylamines, not very safe. Why do you want to try this?

 

[surge]

How long have you been taking amphetamines and how much do you sleep/eat?

It may be bringing out mild autism you already have. I can relate to what you're saying to some degree. The stims are likely exacerbating symptoms you already have rather than inducing them.

I would highly advise against mixing phenethylamines, not very safe. Why do you want to try this?

I'm on speed everyday, I take 30 mg in the morning. I conduct a regular life... I want to do this because as I said, those stuff are very important side effects of amphetamine IMHO, and I want to prevent those since I take speed everyday as a therapy (arranged therapy because my country allows the prescription of stimulants only to those with extremely severe ADHD, and then there are also other absurd rules that makes stimulants practically non-prescribable for the most part of people who needs them, but it is good, I evade taxes and I have speed, I would prefer some pure dextroamphetamine but here we are)

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I'm on speed everyday, I take 30 mg in the morning. I conduct a regular life... I want to do this because as I said, those stuff are very important side effects of amphetamine IMHO, and I want to prevent those since I take speed everyday as a therapy (arranged therapy because my country allows the prescription of stimulants only to those with extremely severe ADHD, and then there are also other absurd rules that makes stimulants practically non-prescribable commonly)

I'm trying to understand what your question/goal is here. You want to stop having these side effects you speak of?

 

[surge]

I'm trying to understand what your question/goal is here. You want to stop having these side effects you speak of?

Of course, It is very unpleasant, I'm basically antisocial at the moment as I said and I can't feel emotions like I used to (emotion blunting is called and it comes also from low serotonin). I thought about entactogen as a good combination to force the serotonin release even with amphetamine.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

Anyway this has to be fixed in chronic use. I'm thinking about combining speed with some non neurotoxic nor cardiotoxic mdma analog like MDAI or just switching to mephedrone.

Terrible idea bro, MDAI is gonna tank your serotonin leading to lethargy and bad sleep, mephedrone much the same + it's extremely addicting and bad for your body. Both are not at all gonna help with ADHD symptoms.

There shouldn't be really noticeable serotonin release with street speed btw.
Do you actually have ADHD? Your post reads very amped up, lower the dose for sure.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

Ah I misunderstood, so you use it therapeutically every day? Not even functionally? How can street amphetamine be therapeutic, especially daily, it seems like you're just weirdly justifying being amped up daily. Which is fine by me, but you gotta face the consequences. If it's hurting your relationships, likely due to being too amped up and people generally don't like that, then just stop taking or take way less. If you dose every day it's likely you're on the path to addiction, and not even the functional effects will remain.

Also, adding another serotonin or triple releaser daily is an even worse idea which will likely wreck you in the long term, with like zero upsides.

I also don't see any reason why you would be low on serotonin due to the amphetamine given you get some sleep.

 

[surge]

Terrible idea bro, MDAI is gonna tank your serotonin leading to lethargy and bad sleep, mephedrone much the same + it's extremely addicting and bad for your body. Both are not at all gonna help with ADHD symptoms.

There shouldn't be really noticeable serotonin release with street speed btw.
Do you actually have ADHD? Your post reads very amped up, lower the dose for sure.

I normally speak like that (without amphetamine), maybe it is because english is not my native language and I tend to build simple phrases that can explain the concept as direct as possible without too much words since I don't know many of them. By the way the problem is that amphetamine indirectly actually inhibit serotonin release... I think mephedrone is a bad idea too, I need to manage serotonin releasers and dopamine releasers differently to have more freedom regarding dosing (so maintaining low the serotonin releaser). MDAI do not cause cause serotonin depletion if I take a dosage that release just the right amount of serotonin to be normal or so. I'm very worried about a tachycardia with this combination though, this is why I asked and most importantly to understand if it is just me that experience those effects at such dosage. Serotonin levels are very low on amphetamine because it cause emotion blunting which is a known side effect of stimulants, known in the therapeutic and recreational use.

30 MG of street amphetamine seems a good dosage to me, also because it is probably very impure and it is a 1:1 racemic mixture, not like adderall, levoamphetamine it is not as powerful as dextroamphetamine, I tried different dosages first.

P.S. I was not diagnosed formally by adhd, my psychiatrist talked about amphetamine, but given the situation in the end I've got a prescription of non stimulant alternatives (which exist, but don't work)

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I normally speak like that (without amphetamine), maybe it is because english is not my native language and I tend to build simple phrases that can explain the concept as direct as possible without too much words since I don't know many of them. By the way the problem is that amphetamine indirectly actually inhibit serotonin release... I think mephedrone is a bad idea too, I need to manage serotonin releasers and dopamine releasers differently to have more freedom regarding dosing (so maintaining low the serotonin releaser). MDAI do not cause cause serotonin depletion if I take a dosage that release just the right amount of serotonin to be normal or so. I'm very worried about a tachycardia with this combination though, this is why I asked and most importantly to understand if it is just me that experience those effects at such dosage. Serotonin levels are very low on amphetamine because dopamine inhibit a lot serotonin release, indirectly trough the activation of D2 receptors, this cause emotion blunting which is a known side effect of stimulants, known in the therapeutic and recreational use.

30 MG of street amphetamine seems a good dosage to me, also because it is probably very impure and it is a 1:1 racemic mixture, not like adderall, levoamphetamine it is not as powerful as dextroamphetamine, I tried different dosages first.

P.S. I was not prescribed formally by adhd, but my psychiatrist talked about amphetamine, but given the situation in the end I was prescribed with non stimulant alternatives (which exist, but don't work)

But you don't need any serotonin releasing agent. Amphetamine will trigger some serotonin release already, but it should be very minor, this is scientifically proven, otherwise they wouldn't be prescribing daily amphetamine to kids and teenagers. So your serotonin levels are fine, unless you've been taking triple releasers like MDMA and mephedrone. If you're worried about your serotonin levels do some exercise, go outside, sleep, whatever. Adding triple releasers will not magically give you empathy and solve your social issues, it will make you look even more annoying and actually deplete your serotonin levels in the end.

You say you lack empathy and annoy people because of the speed, which is reasonable, amphetamine can flatten emotions and make people just talk a lot. I think you think that low serotonin levels lead to autistic traits in people, which is not the case. Low serotonin doesn't lead to a lack of empathy, rather the opposite in my experience, due to the more intense emotions.

 

[negrogesic]

I certainly experience the effect you are describing. When I take any appreciable amount of amphetamine a similar thing happens, empathy decreases etc. If my girlfriend tries to talk to me for instance I am pretty impatient and sort of stand there wishing that she would stop talking.

But not so sure I buy the serotonin hypothesis. My guess is that more directly NE/DA mediated. Granted I've noticed that taking a low dose of dextromethorphan (60mg or so) with dextroamphetamine does soften it up quite abit, but this isn't the world's safest drug combination. True, DXM has affinity for the SERT but again not convinced about the serotonin hypothesis.

 

[surge]

But you don't need any serotonin releasing agent. Amphetamine will trigger some serotonin release already, but it should be very minor, this is scientifically proven, otherwise they wouldn't be prescribing daily amphetamine to kids and teenagers. So your serotonin levels are fine, unless you've been taking triple releasers like MDMA and mephedrone. If you're worried about your serotonin levels do some exercise, go outside, sleep, whatever. Adding triple releasers will not magically give you empathy and solve your social issues, it will make you look even more annoying and actually deplete your serotonin levels in the end.

You say you lack empathy and annoy people because of the speed, which is reasonable, amphetamine can flatten emotions and make people just talk a lot. I think you think that low serotonin levels lead to autistic traits in people, which is not the case. Low serotonin doesn't lead to a lack of empathy, rather the opposite in my experience, due to the more intense emotions.

I think you understood that I have low serotonin from withdrawal or something, it is not like that but I understand that I might wrote everything bad and confusing. The amount of serotonin that amphetamine release simply does not exist at common doses, because its ability to do something at VMAT2 or SERT do not change the serotonin concentration in any appreciable way as you said and in fact I never talked about it. A well-known side effect of amphetamine is emotional blunting even at a low dosage, ofc it doesn't affect everyone but a lot of people yes, when someone have emotional blunting, it is not on the withdrawal, or the comedown, it is on the principal phase. The cause is a low serotonin concentration because serotonin is the monoamine responsible for the feeling of emotions, good or bad it doesn't matter, if you completely deplet serotonin by eating a lot of SRAs in a day you will just feel nothing, emptyness. I tried it and it is not painful or something, maybe it could be useful if there was a way to induce it easily and safely. In the first post I talked about the side effects I've got from amphetamine in the 7 days I tried it on day to day life and I wrote that probably those are the one commonly called emotional blunting and so here is why the low serotonin concentration thing came from (drug induced low release of serotonin, usually I'm very empathic and I feel very strong emotions, so it is not a matter of exercise). MDAI is not a triple releaser, it is very selective for serotonin, also most analogs of mdma in practice don't relase much of monoamines other than serotonin. Low serotonin levels doesn't lead to every autistic trait known, but autistic people have low serotonin levels, and this is the cause of a lot of traits regarding for example emotions, sociability and agressiveness.

 

[surge]

I certainly experience the effect you are describing. When I take any appreciable amount of amphetamine a similar thing happens, empathy decreases etc. If my girlfriend tries to talk to me for instance I am pretty impatient and sort of stand there wishing that she would stop talking.

But not so sure I buy the serotonin hypothesis. My guess is that more directly NE/DA mediated. Granted I've noticed that taking a low dose of dextromethorphan (60mg or so) with dextroamphetamine does soften it up quite abit, but this isn't the world's safest drug combination. True, DXM has affinity for the SERT but again not convinced about the serotonin hypothesis.

I'm not so sure either it is just the first thing that came into my mind.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I think you understood that I have low serotonin from withdrawal or something, it is not like that but I understand that I might wrote everything bad and confusing. The amount of serotonin that amphetamine release simply does not exist at common doses, because its ability to do something at VMAT2 or SERT do not change the serotonin concentration in any appreciable way as you said and in fact I never talked about it. A well-known side effect of amphetamine is emotional blunting even at a low dosage, ofc it doesn't affect everyone but a lot of people yes, when someone have emotional blunting, it is not on the withdrawal, or the comedown, it is on the principal phase. The cause is a low serotonin concentration because serotonin is the monoamine responsible for the feeling of emotions, good or bad it doesn't matter, if you completely deplet serotonin by eating a lot of SRAs in a day you will just feel nothing, emptyness. I tried it and it is not painful or something, maybe it could be useful if there was a way to induce it easily and safely. In the first post I talked about the side effects I've got from amphetamine in the 7 days I tried it on day to day life and I wrote that probably those are the one commonly called emotional blunting and so here is why the low serotonin concentration thing came from (drug induced low release of serotonin, usually I'm very empathic and I feel very strong emotions, so it is not a matter of exercise). MDAI is not a triple releaser, it is very selective for serotonin, also most analogs of mdma in practice don't relase much of monoamines other than serotonin. Low serotonin levels doesn't lead to every autistic trait known, but autistic people have low serotonin levels, and this is the cause of a lot of traits regarding for example emotions, sociability and agressiveness.

Ah I see, I understand you now.
But as far as I know, "serotonin release" is something that doesn't really happen when just interacting with people right, or release doesn't have anything to do with feeling emotions? It's about the levels of serotonin in the body, right? It's not like dopamine that gets released when eating something good.

 

[tweakerguy]

Interesting topic, and something I think about a lot (I have pretty severe A.D.D. [no hyperactivity]).
I am a daily methamphetamine user (going on about 2 + years thanks to easy access).
Lately I've begun to struggle with the "emotional blunting" side effects you spoke about. What's worse though, is my increasing inability to read social cues (autism 101) while high, which is what I think you were trying to articulate in your OP. This makes it harder to hide more than anything else.
However I believe these comes more from the overall of sleep from
But yes, daily usage is a trade off. You only begin to see the positive therapeutic effects after tolerance is gained long after the euphoria is gone. With meth though, there's the added benefit of targeted serotonin release making it more cerebral compared to amphetamine's mostly peripheral effects.
It is a shame you are limited to speed paste, the doses you likely have to take must be very taxing on your body.

 

[surge]

I had some time to research it good. Basically 5ht1-family serotonin heteroreceptors inhibit dopamine release. Then I've found a lot of papers about how those serotonin receptors related to empathy, impulsivity, aggression etc... (everything affected also by amphetamines) inhibit specific dopamine neurons to work. With amphetamine all dopamine neurons are less inhibited, but by taking it with MDMA for example you could increase serotonin and so inhibit more only those dopamine neurons regarding emotion blunting, counteracting amphetamines selectively.