Stimulants Amphetamine for cocaine addiction in comparison to Methadone for heroin

[Zonxx]

You know i've met ppl in rehab that smoked a lot of crack or snorted a lot of coke, since i live in the country that makes it. you know ppl in my country take very pure cocaine and LOTS of it since its so cheap. I remember one guy who told me his best friend who was a regular cocaine user, he died of a heart attack at the age of 29, he used to do a lot of sports, was in shape but you know cocaine is very deceiving that's what im trying to tell you. Don't take it too often, try to take breaks from it or only do it on certain ocassions, your body is gonna thank you.

Oh i do, i limit my monthly use to only half the month, but consume anywhere from 5-20 grams during that period, im not sure what my average is all i know is my source quote on quote told me that i was vip and as soon as i call everyone else is dropped which is fucking hilarious because this one chick who connected me with em, one day called before me and we talk alot but MAN i do my share of coke but she cant get out of bed without it, so he ditched meeting her and came to meet me she blew up my phone because she knew i was buying that day, and shat bricks that i was already a more important customer than her and shes been buying off this source for 8 years, me only a year but man i find i use alot but... she works from home too not gonna get into that but, she does a line quite literally every 5 minutes if you can even imagine that, but shes still perfectly healthy aside from a definate crippling issue with absolutely needing cocaine for every waking moment and i sympathize for her because she's chill pretty sure she wants to fuck my flute raw but thats another story so in comparison i think i do alright for myself, albeit ONE FUCKING NIGHT K THIS IS NO JOKE, cops were genuinely posted outside the apartment and i was casually chillin 2-3am livingroom smoking up a storm doing random shit, walking around with my pipe smoking till i heard running up n down the apartment stairs, peeked out and saw cops and wtf'd, turned every light off and went to hide in my room till i heard them outside the apartment door and taking care of my mother and being @ her place i woke her up and was like " yo theres fucking cops running around" to which i was called a dilusional crackhead, and i told her to get the fuck up cuz i wasnt going to that door if they knocked lol so she got up claimed to see nothing outside... they never knocked but the next damn day we found out they were one by one searching each apartment for a missing kid, andfound her the floor below us in some random empty apartment she wandered into, and during this whole nonsense after looking back at the night, cops n all, waking my mother up @ 3 am, didnt put my pipe down for one damn minute LOL i mustve loaded a full gram or two into the bowl because i may never have a bowl last that long ever again, i think i hit that thing for a good 3 hours till it was 'empty' hella residue to smoke afterwards but fucking lol i was quietly moving stuff out of my closet one handed to hide in it all the while smoking a storm out of nervousness i dont think crack houses ever smelt as cracky as the apartment did that night LOL idk why i shared this story but it is funny, and thus i asked my mother what she fucking thought now that i wasnt ' dilusional or full of shit' and got " alright ill believe you next time but jesus christ open a window"

 

[nznity]

Oh i do, i limit my monthly use to only half the month, but consume anywhere from 5-20 grams during that period, im not sure what my average is all i know is my source quote on quote told me that i was vip and as soon as i call everyone else is dropped which is fucking hilarious because this one chick who connected me with em, one day called before me and we talk alot but MAN i do my share of coke but she cant get out of bed without it, so he ditched meeting her and came to meet me she blew up my phone because she knew i was buying that day, and shat bricks that i was already a more important customer than her and shes been buying off this source for 8 years, me only a year but man i find i use alot but... she works from home too not gonna get into that but, she does a line quite literally every 5 minutes if you can even imagine that, but shes still perfectly healthy aside from a definate crippling issue with absolutely needing cocaine for every waking moment and i sympathize for her because she's chill pretty sure she wants to fuck my flute raw but thats another story so in comparison i think i do alright for myself, albeit ONE FUCKING NIGHT K THIS IS NO JOKE, cops were genuinely posted outside the apartment and i was casually chillin 2-3am livingroom smoking up a storm doing random shit, walking around with my pipe smoking till i heard running up n down the apartment stairs, peeked out and saw cops and wtf'd, turned every light off and went to hide in my room till i heard them outside the apartment door and taking care of my mother and being @ her place i woke her up and was like " yo theres fucking cops running around" to which i was called a dilusional crackhead, and i told her to get the fuck up cuz i wasnt going to that door if they knocked lol so she got up claimed to see nothing outside... they never knocked but the next damn day we found out they were one by one searching each apartment for a missing kid, andfound her the floor below us in some random empty apartment she wandered into, and during this whole nonsense after looking back at the night, cops n all, waking my mother up @ 3 am, didnt put my pipe down for one damn minute LOL i mustve loaded a full gram or two into the bowl because i may never have a bowl last that long ever again, i think i hit that thing for a good 3 hours till it was 'empty' hella residue to smoke afterwards but fucking lol i was quietly moving stuff out of my closet one handed to hide in it all the while smoking a storm out of nervousness i dont think crack houses ever smelt as cracky as the apartment did that night LOL idk why i shared this story but it is funny, and thus i asked my mother what she fucking thought now that i wasnt ' dilusional or full of shit' and got " alright ill believe you next time but jesus christ open a window"

dam son, you're hella crazy hahahaha.

 

[Zonxx]

dam son, you're hella crazy hahahaha.

Crazy life, crazy stories = full life, living not surviving :D

 

[Zonxx]

dam son, you're hella crazy hahahaha.

Ive got rediculous story fter story oh so little time

 

[Keif' Richards]

There have definitely been experimental studies examining the potential for say, Dextroamphetamine Maintenance for folks who are heavily dependent upon Methamphetamine. From what I've read, it doesn't seem to be nearly as effective proportionately to say Methadone Maintenance for Heroin Addiction. It seems to be a possibility, but I am not totally sure why this treatment isn't as effective. It's a very interesting topic though. I'd love to hear more about it.

 

[Zonxx]

There have definitely been experimental studies examining the potential for say, Dextroamphetamine Maintenance for folks who are heavily dependent upon Methamphetamine. From what I've read, it doesn't seem to be nearly as effective proportionately to say Methadone Maintenance for Heroin Addiction. It seems to be a possibility, but I am not totally sure why this treatment isn't as effective. It's a very interesting topic though. I'd love to hear more about it.

you see when my brain is working at optimal capacity, i do generate valuable threads ^^ *highfive*

 

[opiatekrzy]

Dextroamphetamine maintenance for meth addiction is a pretty lousy alternative. All the meth I did, trying to use even 90mg of Adderall did nothing but still allow me to go to sleep, that or, get euphoria for two hours and crash and crave for meth...different strokes for different folks

 

[Phobos]

Why has this not become a thing as currently there is no cocaine maintenance therapy treatment and maybe I'm the odd one out, but I don't think so. While amps are highly addictive themselves, so is methadone, essentially replacing addictions, however to lesser substances while you can abuse methadone, amps, why has there been no form of study into this because there are millions suffering with addiction to the ol coca plant with their only option being to abstain which not being addicted but moreso dependent on it myself I have experience using amphetamine to wean off a cocaine high as well as using it after a harder binge to negate any negatives which has significantly proven to me it's viability as a maintenance drug but much to my surprise there still is no form of maintenance for cocaine users as of yet...

The thing is, for a Heroin user, there is a need to avoid the withdrawal as it can be deadly, for cocaine addicts there is nothing happening that is medically relevant except for the psychiatric/psychological issue of the cravings.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Definitely not. IME amphetamine shits all over coke and is way more addictive. It's also gonna give all these people psychosis, which develops in a matter of months. Especially since you'd probably needd to use high doses.
They already use Modafinil (a stimulant) for cocaine addiction.

 

[Gigi1617]

Modafinil was not good for me, the come down was horrid, rathe be on the drug
.. it’s also addictive

 

[Zonxx]

Modafinil was not good for me, the come down was horrid, rathe be on the drug
.. it’s also addictive

from what i read about modafinil while not having used it myself is it sounds like it is more or less an anti-fatigue medication prescribed as an alternative to amphetamine, but it doesn't seem to be better either, i feel like its another ploy by drug companies to make money
amp comedowns can be BAD for alot of people depending on amounts used and how often theyre used - the problem with amphetamine is it depletes your bodies natural stored dopamine over longthy use at higher doses, but im not sure if it has this effect at 'theraputic' ones although i wish there was more information lingering around about Modafinil about how it actually worked in the brain

 

[opiatekrzy]

The thing is, for a Heroin user, there is a need to avoid the withdrawal as it can be deadly, for cocaine addicts there is nothing happening that is medically relevant except for the psychiatric/psychological issue of the cravings.

How can heroin withdrawal be deadly? Neither cocaine or heroin withdrawal is life threatening..

 

[Phobos]

Cocaine withdrawal is not directly dangerous, it will be a bad form of depression with big time irritability, and that can bring indirect dangers ofcourse.

But opiate withdrawal can be deadly, but only in very advanced stages of addiction.
The cause of death is dehydration due to vomit and diarrhoea (losing water + inability to rehydrate) which leads to electrolyte imbalance and cardiac arrest.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

I would think that extended-release methylphenidate would be of more use since for many people it just feels more like C-Jam. Then there is the possibility of mixing a stimulant like that with nitracaine or another cocaine analogue in an oral formulation that lasts for a long time. It could keep the craving down because there is dopaminergic stimulation going on and maybe they can find a clean, relatively safe MPDV analogue to put into a nasal spray for people to deal with sudden cravings, though I think the methylphenidate with or without the cocaine analogues would do the job better.. Since all these stimulants may make it hard for someone to get to sleep some nights, maybe try hydroxyzine plus clonidine plus an optional low dose of triazolam or nitrazepam if needed.

The short duration of action of C-Jam must exacerbate the economic and behavioural damage for people, so a sustained dopaminergic stimulation, maybe one which is modified with clonidine if there is overstimulation, would stabilise the patient and obviate a lot of that, I would think. In the case of overstimulation and insomnia for patients on a cocaine replacement, one wants to use a dopaminergic depressant, I would think, so as a first line clonidine and/or a little bit of tramadol or tapentadol, or if those are contraindicated, dextropropoxyphene, codeine, meptazinol, tilidate, something like that . . . worse cases get GHB; gabapentinoids could also help with this.

Just like with methadone and so forth, I don't think too much if at all should be made of any alleged receptor blockade. The idea is to end the physiological basis for cravings which lead to activities which are very disruptive to the life of the patient.

For example, I think it is going to be clear that Codidol Retard or MST Continus will be the most effective maintenance and slow detoxification agent for narcotic addicts who need stabilisation, with something for craving incidents, be that sublingual or subcutaneous or IV dextromoramide, dipipanone, morphine, or hydromorphone . . . or, just smack.

So they can come up with Smack Contin and Kadian H and use it for that purpose and cancer and chronic pain, and maintenance patients having a little more trouble can get some dry ampoules of smack, phials of shootable Palf or sublingual dextromoramide tablets with effervescence like Fentora, or some linctus or specially-made injectable dipipanone or phenadoxone plus cyclizine and/or hydroxyzine (without the Goddamn sand and the whole menorah, 78 rpm record, and Latin Mass full of wax, of course)

If heroin has too much political baggage in a locale, then make diacetyldiydromorphine, acetylmorphine, dibenzoylmorphine and acetylpropionylmorphine and maybe nicomorphine and dipropionylmorphine available. They do the same thing, with two having some differences -- diacetyldihydromorphine has more legs, and acetylmorphone combines the effects of smack and Dilaudid. Then there are about a half-dozen acetyl esters of oxymorphone which could be used.

Does naltrexone really help these folks in most cases?

One more agent I would suggest is tilidate for injection because some people really get off on it and it may be helpful in sustained temptation over hours, preventing it from turning into the acute temptation incidents which they have found dextromoramide to help with in the Netherlands.

 

[Lucy20]

How can heroin withdrawal be deadly? Neither cocaine or heroin withdrawal is life threatening..

My friend who died during opiate withdrawal would disagree. You get so dehydrated and loss of electrolytes and you die. Thats why there is opiate maintenance and no coke maintenance

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Heart conditions are able to cause fatal outcomes, and pulmonary embolisms and strokes of apoplexy are also possibilities.
I used to take one to three days off cold turkey to wash out tolerance and make sure my willpower was not weakening. I was told by my GP and cardiologist not to do this, and the fact that it could turn my angina pectoris and bad heart into a lethal outcome was the subject of that and a set of very strongly-worded letters countersigned by the hospital's lawyers in case I ever ran into trouble and ignorant doctors when in the USA at university.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

The cocaine abstinence syndrome is mainly a stimulant rebound in the CNS whereas opioid withdrawal in a metabolic disorder which eventually effects more or less every system in the body, isn't it?

Narcotic addiction is the juxtaposition of the acquired metabolic disorder of tolerance and dependence with a phobia about the withdrawal . . . other metabolic disorders, most of which are congenital or determined rather than acquired although there may be some, include everything from diabetes to all sorts of over and underactivity of endocrine glands . . . is withdrawal and forced abstinence any different from improperly treating any other metabolic condition? Fudge for diabetes and so forth? Crank for hypothyroidism? (they do use it for adrenal insufficiency . . . Lenny Bruce used to get 36 ampoules of meth a month on prescription I think)

The type of absolute sobriety and abstinence from any kind of drugs especially pushed by some ignorant folks the rehab racket in the US in particular is not a natural state for the human organism, and certainly not an optimum . . . and it can be acutely and chronically unhealthy for the organism as well . . . A lot of these gangsters claim that all drugs are the same thing and have the same effects on people. Smack, C-Jam, model aeroplane glue, cannabis -- they all do the same thing to people and are immoral for people to take? Shouldn't people who are going to try to take care of addicts be required to have some pharmacology coursework? I have never heard anything so ridiculous my life.

 

[opiatekrzy]

Again, the reason they have opioid maintenance programs is mainly to control phsycial withdraw symptoms and at the same time making one's life more stable and productive without having to worry about it affecting they're everyday lives. It is known widespread that opiate withdrawal is not life threatening. Two examples of drugs that are life threatening during withdrawal are benzodiazepines and alcohol. I don't believe it is appropriate to throw out there in the public that opiate withdrawal is life threatening, because it is not. I'm sure there are rare cases of it, but ones physical health and other factors need to be included that may have caused death. Maintenance programs for opiate addictions are here today , and are NOT promoted to avoid death or hospitalization from withdrawal, they are promoted to enhance one addicts quality of life, provide more stability for them and they're cravings and the non life threatening physical withdrawal symptoms, as well as pain management. 3 drugs that cause life threatening withdrawal symptoms are: alcohol, benzos, barbiturates. Hands down.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Dextroamphetamine maintenance for meth addiction is a pretty lousy alternative. All the meth I did, trying to use even 90mg of Adderall did nothing but still allow me to go to sleep, that or, get euphoria for two hours and crash and crave for meth...different strokes for different folks

Indeed for a Meth addict Desoxyn seems as a more logical choice.

But swapping a Coke addiction for a more productive stimulant at a fraction of the cost is not that bad of a deal.

But in reality the UK approach seems the more realistic and most client oriented. Pharmaceutical Cocaine reefers for crackhead's. And diacetylMorphine ampules or reefer's for the Heroin addict's. Extrapolating this they could be willing to get medical MethAmphetamine produced for the people addicted to that, it has no medical use over here anymore. And Meth is relatively unseen afaik in most part's of EU.

 

[Phobos]

It is known widespread that opiate withdrawal is not life threatening. Two examples of drugs that are life threatening during withdrawal are benzodiazepines and alcohol. I don't believe it is appropriate to throw out there in the public that opiate withdrawal is life threatening, because it is not. I'm sure there are rare cases of it, but ones physical health and other factors need to be included that may have caused death.

Opiate withdrawals can be deadly, the fact that not a lot of people going into withdrawal dies doesn't mean it is not a very real possibility.
When detoxing in a clinic, this risk is nonexistant ofcourse, but whoever is planning to quit a heavy opiate habit and doesn't want to/cannot have medical assistance needs to know that it is possible to die.
I believe in fact that it is very inappropriate to hide from someone that wants to detox from opiates that he might die, just because most will survive.