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Amanita Combinations

The only root reason I can surmise to informally call another person delusional is if you are, by proxy, presuming yourself to be crystal clear; and I would suggest that no such human ego exists because ego, by its very nature, is itself a kind of self-reaffirming emptiness. Everyone here is just dealing with a projection.

There's a good quote whose author I unfortunately forget, but the words still ring true to me:
"My love is my business; it has nothing to do with you. You love me, and that isn’t personal. You tell the story that I am this, or I am that, and you fall in love with your story. What do I have to do with it? I am here for your perception, as if I had a choice. I am your story, no more and no less. You have never met me. No one has ever met anyone."

Calling someone else delusional is just an attempt to reaffirm a part of your own story that you're projecting onto them. Besides, I don't see anything particularly delusional about someone expressing that they have found truth in something. Most of us have been there at some point, whether or not we want to admit it. My purpose here is not say what "I can do", it's to posit what "I might be able to do". It's possible to enter the right-brained realm of psychedelics while maintaining a balanced left-brained presence. That is to say, it's possible to critically evaluate an abstract experience and draw truth from it.

Ultimately though, I think rationalists who claim to have answers are just as delusional as people who think they have the holy grail in an entheogen, if either is delusional at all. The self-aggrandizing title of rationalist is kind of hubristic in of itself, as it's fruitless to supplant one allegedly surrogate delusion with the so-called "more real" one. That's just ego talking.

I'm simply a follower and observer of the Mystery. I might talk the talk but ultimately, deep down, I don't claim to really know anything. I don't claim that I am even real - but I guess that comes down to faith, which there is a lot more of at work here than some people care to admit.

EDIT: Oh yeah, about amanitas. I personally don't dabble in those, not after treating someone with kidney failure due to ingesting them. Most of the stories I've read about it have not been good - although good for you if you have found some truth in it.
 
i kinda got the feeling that it would go very well with ketamine, just a feeling...
 
Yes well... OR, the dizziness and vertigo Amanita can produce are potentiated tenfold. Remember ketamine and alcohol? And or ketamine + GHB which is a potential vomitfest. Also not a pleasant example of what (side)effects can synergize.

The only root reason I can surmise to informally call another person delusional is if you are, by proxy, presuming yourself to be crystal clear [...]

Fair enough. But having been on a path that sounds so very similar and after much reflection calling that ultimately of a more or less self-delusional nature I think some attempts of projection could at least conclude to be a warning and a motion of distrust.

If we're going to get all technical and Foucault on our asses, no there is no party who has the right to define and attribute sanity or insanity, which is similar to your argument.

But what I was getting at I guess, was that there are some ideas explored in certain ways that are a house of cards... that when analyzed dialectically and elements of what is said investigated, connections melt like ice. For example the flick 'what the bleep do we know'. It's all good and well trying to match theoretical patterns and connect them in interdisciplinary ways, but in the end it is nothing more than suspecting one thing having to do with another. There are many metaphysical patterns that seem so universal that they recurr in microcosm as well as macrocosm, following laws of nature and life.
I've heard a lot of that babble, and there may be some interesting things there - even more: they sound magical, 'if only one could show all the connections and complete the connect-the-dots'. Unfortunately, at least in my opinion, people who trip a lot end up grasping air and offer nothing more than platitudes and the promise or vague direction of a profound answer... but there often appears no 'material' to the ideation. Instead, people who don't build on drug experiences (alone) but actually set out to write a theory, using mindmapping, etc to form an actual idea... those are more the type I'd like to hear from what they have to say.

I am generalizing here. I know not what you hold in your minds. But when I read certain phrases, it just starts smelling more and more of vaguery and behavioral trends of self-delusion to me. Hoping the ideas that will crystallize to something tangible will strike you like thunder, forcing them by "unlocking the potential / promises of a selected entheogen", well sorry. No disrespect but call me if you have something tangible but don't pretend like your house of cards is a concrete foundation and construction site.

Maybe I am abreacting to one individual in particular who periodically challenges me, first asking about evolution and mutagenesis, chaos theory and a lot of other things, then challenging me in what at first is presumed to be a scientific or rational debate saying that he thinks there are alternative theories to how our existence was shaped. However every strand of theory ends up evaporating into nothing and I kid you not... after hours eventually not a single reason could be presented, a cause, a something that would validate the consideration of the frankly outrageous theories that were thrown at me.

You know, just talking and suggesting things.. it's all good. Carte blanche. But when I rebel is when bullshit is tried to be passed off as a real scientific argument. Something similar to the whole creationism not belonging in a science classroom thing. Now you might think "I am not presuming to be scientific about it at all", but nevertheless I'd still like your ideas to be consistent and to sum up to something that has meaning.

And I see it in PD as well: things that sound beautiful and would implicate things beyond our wildest imagination - I am thinking of the more daring theories presented also in the Spirit Molecule documentary as well... a lot of things that sound great, and flourish with an audience that just knows too little about the needed background information to doubt, argue and dispute it. To just call it interesting reverie, with zero basis. This lack of skepticism is painfully present in new age culture. Too much of the esoteric. To remind you here is the definition: "Intended for or understood by only a particular group". Well I don't like talking poetically and intentionally vague and people listening who have the unfortunate tendency (similar to schizophrenics) to see patterns where there are none.

This last thing may be paramount to why I think self-delusion should not be thrown out the window too quickly: Tripping a lot can cause this 'seeing patterns where there are none', I would bet money you could prove that with solid research. It's one of the beautiful things of a trip to literally visually SEE patterns all over that are not really there. Explanations have been offered about the neurological basis. I think this effect carries over to our world of thought and that when tripping often this effect lingers as a chronic side-effect.
As I illustrated before: you might start studying several ideas and theories from all sorts of directions you can dig up. Stuff from the internet and from a variety of disciplines. Then you start seeing patterns, some of which are valid associations. But why I am very skeptical and feel strongly about this is: you also see patterns where there are none.
How is that not delusional?
 
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Yeah I'll drop it now, I was just ethically obligated to say something. And y'all don't follow my posts if you think I don't believe myself to be a delusional, neurotic mess of a person. Peace and prosperity upon you. <3

foreigner said:
Oh yeah, about amanitas. I personally don't dabble in those, not after treating someone with kidney failure due to ingesting them. Most of the stories I've read about it have not been good - although good for you if you have found some truth in it.

I've done some brief looking and while a number of the members of the amanita genus are severely nephrotoxic (and some are hepatoxic), I didn't see anything implicating amanita muscaria as being so. And I don't think muscimol or ibotenic acid pose that kind of risk, nor that A. Muscaria should pose any lethal risk to humans without some significant complicating factors. Do you have further info on this?

I have quite an interest in GABAergic hallucinogens and would like to play with this stuff myself at some point.
 
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If somebody said "I'm Christian", you wouldn't say they were delusional.

No, I would say they are scared, brainwashed, conditioned as a child, guilt ridden, judgmental and on some huge "I'm better than you" power trip.
 
if your expressed reason behind your desire to experiment with aminata combinations is that they contain the meaning of life, how could combining them with opiates, coke, or methamphetamine possibly further this purpose?

I believe that we are not supposed to concsciously be aware of the meaning of life. I took Amanitas for the first time five years ago, without dissociatives. I had a similar experience to DwayneHoover. In fact some of the details are the same. But, at the time, I didn't understand it. I viewed it as a profound and inexplicable experience. Over time, I went on a spiritual journey, in some way guided by muscimol, in some way guided by psilocybin, and in many ways guided by the strange series of unexpected circumstances that would lead me to this point in my life. I've experienced serious tragedies. My ego has taken bigger blows than most people will ever experience. I have sinned terribly. And I have been redeemed. And all of this has lead me towards God. Over the past year I have had a series of spiritual encounters, the strongest of which have been as a result of muscaria. Over the past three months, though, I have had at least a dozen encounters with a divine power on many substances. The first time it happened, three years ago, I put it down largely to delusion. I got a lot out of the experience. It changed me. It shocked me. It was this unbelievably lucid ordeal. I'd had DMT, but this was amazing. And I didn't want to go back to it for fear of compromising that memory. Like if I went back I would discover that it was all in my head. Also, it scared me. And I didn't understand it. The first time I had DMT was similar. I didn't have it again for some time because it completely changed my perspective of drugs. As I've said before, DMT is nothing in comparison to muscimol. But, I suspect that's a duration thing. Anyway, I had muscimol again with dissociatives and I not only experienced the vision that people talk about but I also had this unspoken voice dictating to me the meaning of the vision. Since then I have read accounts of Soma experiences and I understand them. They are all the same. It's difficult to explain, but I understand DwayneHoover's experience with the being who consumes all forms of consciousness. I can explain it. But I need to include some diagrams and get it right in my head. I will post an explanation of it, and what I understand about the meaning of life, in the next couple of days.

As for, why combine it with opiates and other psychedelics? Because I have read a number of positive reports of psychedelics being combined with Amanitas and no negative ones. DMT is a rare combination. That's why I asked. But mescaline and LSD have been recorded. They are okay. I have done psilocybin. I have done DXM. I have done nitrous. And if I hadn't tried DXM with muscimol I never would have had a prophetic vision - which is COMPLETELY different to a drug induced delusion. I've had meth habits. I've experienced psychosis. I have had everything under the sun, excluding research chemicals which are too vast to cover. Muscimol is not like a drug experience. A divine experience, a vision, is not like a hallucination. You have to experience it to understand.

Also, you aren't very experienced with muscimol but you already want to combine it with potentially lethal substances like bromo-dragonfly? Honestly this sounds reckless and idiotic.

I don't think there's any point in calling me idiotic. I was going to start with a low dose of Bromo and work my way up. But, now, given that it has been recommended that I don't I will not. It's not idiotic to ask questions. This is part of my research. I am implementing harm reduction into my lifestyle by posing questions, before making mistakes. John Ruskin said, "To be able to ask a question clearly is two-thirds of the way to getting it answered.” In other words, it is ignorant to insult people for asking for help. What is far more preferable, is to help.

Also, maybe you should look up what a central nervous system depressant is, it's not a very difficult concept.

I could do that. Or you could just answer my question. Even if I look up what a CNS depressant is, I need to understand why it's a bad idea to take it with muscimol. The internet is full of people asking reasonable questions and other people saying "look it up." If someone comes up to you on the street and asks you a simple fact, do you tell them to go to a library?

That description of the muscimol experience honestly sounds so awesome but unfortunately it also sounds like it has the potential to be absolutely hellish, which is one of the only things stopping me from ordering some and trying it.

It will be hellish if you are afraid at all of it being hellish. You need to let go of everything. If you do you go to heaven, if you don't you go to hell. This is the origin of heaven and hell. This near death experience that stimulates the end. The first time, I went to hell. It was amazing, but utterly terrifying. Five years later, I went to heaven and I felt bliss like I never imagined.

Muscimol is not for the faint of heart.

I've had a year of very frequent psilocybe mushroom use and being a scholar of it's effects (very chaotic putting things together in an existential crisis), and also a year of very frequent LSD use where I felt I was 'on to something', trying to piece together unifying theories very similar to the way you call it "the key to the meaning of life waiting to be unlocked". So I can relate to it.

I'm glad you can relate to some extent, but psilocybe mushrooms aren't relatable. I'm an absolute mushroom nutcase. I've had at least a kilogram of psilocybes over the past year. I'm not exaggerating. I take them even when I'm not on drugs. I take below medicinal below threshold doses. I have been on mushrooms more days over the past year than I have been off them. I often take so many that I end up experiencing psilocybin induced paralysis, which is a rare phenomen that I have only ever encountered about ten cases of. Psilocybin is literally nothing in comparison to muscimol. The hallucinogenic properties of DMT massively outweigh psilcoybin, but the revelations do not. That's why I'm interested in ayahuasca because maybe with a longer DMT trip, you can gain something from it. DMT, for me, when smoked, is entirely hallucinogenic. Muscimol is more hallucinogenic than DMT, and maybe a million times more hallucinogenic than psilocybin. It also has a million times the revelation. I would trade every psilocybin trip I ever had for half an hour in a muscimol dream. And I've had thousands of psilocybin trips. Thousands and thousands. I am used to trips and knowing how to deal with them. I am a master. Everybody around me has fallen. I have been tripping hard for over ten years, taking everything. I never break down. I never form crazy delusions. I can differentiate between standard revelations from psilocybin and messages from God. I can also differentiate between hallucinations and visions. If you've only ever had visions, I understand the confusion. Before having this experience, I would have insisted that it can not exist. But it does. It's not a question of concreting my state of mind. If you saw a penguin you would believe in penguins. I believe in what I have seen, and felt, and experienced.

think rationalists who claim to have answers are just as delusional as people who think they have the holy grail in an entheogen, if either is delusional at all

Beautiful, thank you. When never said "the universe is clearly rational", I wanted to object but I held back. Nothing is clearly anything. I have strong beliefs but I don't tell you that you are delusional and the world is clearly irrational. I think it's a sign of insecurity to insist that another person's beliefs are incorrect and that yours are correct.

i kinda got the feeling that it would go very well with ketamine, just a feeling...

Ketamine is one drug that I have never enjoyed. But it's been a long time. I've been tempted to have another taste. I think it would be better than DXM with muscimol because of the reduced retrograde amnesia and the reduced side-effects. Been thinking about K and muscimol a lot recently. Not sure if I can get some anymore though.

Solipsis

The difference between delusion and faith isn't really that important. What I believe brings me enormous joy. It doesn't do anyone any harm. I have always been really safe with my drug use and I will always continue to be. If I believe what I believe and it makes my life better, who cares? I always envied faith and I thought I'd never have it. Now I do and I really believe. I don't just want to believe like born again Christians who force themselves. I have experienced it. If what I've experienced is a delusion, I'm not sure I want to know. We are all deluded after all, in one way or another. That's what ego is. Muscimol feels like permanent ego death. For over a week, I have been without an ego. Seriously. I'm like a differnet person. Faith is only a house of cards if you start pulling it apart. You have to believe.

I have quite an interest in GABAergic hallucinogens and would like to play with this stuff myself at some point.

Please do. You are an ideal candidate. Go in pure of heart without fear and you will be rewarded beyond your ability to comprehend. Much love.

If somebody said "I'm Christian", you wouldn't say they were delusional.
No, I would say they are scared, brainwashed, conditioned as a child, guilt ridden, judgmental and on some huge "I'm better than you" power trip.

Who is better than who; the Christian for claiming faith or you for judging them?

In other words...

"How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Luke 6:42
 
Ha ha good read!
Really feeling a good vibe from amanitas now, I've always been interested in them and felt the sacred power but now i'm stoked :)

I have tried smoking and loved it, but it wasn't overly submersive.i had one exp years ago eating an eighth, but they were weak specimen. That was a good exp and felt very empowering but was not the full exp I know, but now I have ten pounds of Washington state mushrooms to work with, so I'll soon be meeting with them.

I have practised shamanism for seven years and am a full believer in the sacredness held in the plant teachers, as well as the realness of personal revelation. I really like the breakdown of delusion you guys discussed and it was neat to hear varying perspectives on such an objectively intangible idea as faith and visionary truth.

All we have is our own exp of reality and or own memories from which to deduce what we feel is accurate or substantial in the world around us. Such a beautiful conundrum! The answers in a book, the answers in a plant? Who cares to argue when you've experienced truth...i mean logical retrospective analysis is healthy and allows us to integrate these experiences, but ultimately when you believe you believe, and that's beautiful too!

Would love to hear more
 
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I have ten pounds of Washington state mushrooms

Ten pounds? Wow. I have one ounce of Washington caps. Ten pounds is crazy. One hundred and sixty ounces. That's like a barrel full. That's insane, man. I ordered a pound of caps from Europe, but they're no good. Washington are the best as far as buying dried caps goes. Can't beat the ones I pick from the ground, though, for some reason. I'm jealous of your stash. I don't have enough Muscaria to last me until next year. Washington caps are expensive.
 
<snip> This is crossing the line into vendor talk, can you not mention that again, we generally consider doing this sort of thing to be an attempt at solicitation. Thanks.

~Never
 
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Interesting historical reference. JLH (spelling?) use to be the main soruce of online amanita marketing...and they use to sell these amanita panterinoid (not panterina) mushrooms from the rocky montains.

Damn those things were strong! strongest amanita's by far...in a batch of these there would be two or three special mushrooms that were blacker, smaller, and more dence than the rest and these were the "tango &cash) of the amanita world..2 grams of these would be the equilant of 18 grams of washington's finest! I luckly found this out by accident just doseing one of these mushrooms in hoping to add a little something special to my (sleeping)dream world..and ended up having one of the most intense amanita experiences of my life!

In my experience amanita panterina mushrooms have a bad rep...in that they tend to be no more toxic than muscaria..only a good deal my pscho-active.
 
I lived in the Metro Seattle area for 27 years and explored and found many native Psilocybe species. P semilanceata(Liberty Caps) are one of my favorites with P. cyanescens right up there and finally a special find were P. baeocystis. Founds loads of P. stuntzi also. In the Cascade foothills I found a weak but pleasant find, P.pelliculosa. I have found at least 8 Psilocybe species over the years in the Puget Sound region.
In the fall I frequently encountered Amanita species including A. muscaria. I know the use of A. muscaria goes deep back into prehistoric times but the fruiting body contains many other alkaloids and the proportions can vary depending on the substrate and location. So I left all Amanita species on my "Do not take" list. They are much like playing around with Datura species. Things may go fine or very badly.
Let alone combining them with other drugs. Remember, there are over 600 species of Amanita and to identify them down to the species levels requires much knowledge and a good microscope.
I rather read about the experiences of others with this species than experiment on myself. There are so many others which are very safe by comparison in the genus Psilocybe.
So good luck and be safe.
I have also cultured Psilocybe(Stropharia) cubensis.
 
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Interesting historical reference. JLH (spelling?) use to be the main soruce of online amanita marketing...and they use to sell these amanita panterinoid (not panterina) mushrooms from the rocky montains.

Damn those things were strong! strongest amanita's by far...in a batch of these there would be two or three special mushrooms that were blacker, smaller, and more dence than the rest and these were the "tango &cash) of the amanita world..2 grams of these would be the equilant of 18 grams of washington's finest! I luckly found this out by accident just doseing one of these mushrooms in hoping to add a little something special to my (sleeping)dream world..and ended up having one of the most intense amanita experiences of my life!

In my experience amanita panterina mushrooms have a bad rep...in that they tend to be no more toxic than muscaria..only a good deal my pscho-active.

It sure would be interesting to look at the spores under a decent microscope at around 400X and see if the even really are Amanita spp or Psilocybe spp. It's the only way to tell. I have always owned a microscope with an oil immersion lens which allows for a maximu, 1200X for all the 'scopes I've had. I never take chances with mushrooms. I always get a positive I.D. on them prior to trying.
 
Tried kratom and l-theanine with amanitas. Great combo really relaxing and sedating. Dose was 8g kratom, 2g amanita, and 400mg l-theanine. Gonna ramp up the doses tonight.
 
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I have 2-3g dried from a trusted source, but been wary of taking them. I read up on preparation, and I'm not too intimidated by the effects (especially as this is likely to be a low dose?) but it's a question of set and setting, and going into it comfortable. I have a wife and child, and it's hard to think of a time where there would be the time I could set aside just to lie back and see what comes, without a worry about what I ought to be doing, am I ok, partner worrying if I'm ok etc.
Something like lsd I can just do like last time and go out on a 40 mile bike ride, come back mostly sober!
 
but it's a question of set and setting, and going into it comfortable. I have a wife and child, and it's hard to think of a time where there would be the time I could set aside just to lie back and see what comes, without a worry about what I ought to be doing, am I ok, partner worrying if I'm ok etc

With my extremely limited experience 2-3gs shouldn't be more impairing than a few drinks.


Edit: tonight's flavor is 10.4g kratom 3g amanita 60mg dxm and 200mg l-theanine very nice not going for super trippy grey for unwinding after work and watch studio ghiblis beautiful art. Kinda goin for a weed alt but I like this much better than weed and it won't make meh fail my drug test I'll edit again when more coherent
 
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Summary of this thread so far... some parts re-arranged and possibly out of context for my own amusement.

OP:I'd like to know what is likely to be bad combination with muscimol. I don't want to die.

BL: Opiates and alcohol are particularly bad ideas as they are CNS depressants too, involved in many fatal OD's

OP: I want to combine muscimol with alcohol, DMT, hash, MDMA, DOI, 2C-B, LSD, BromoDragonFLY, methamphetamines, codeine, morphine, heroin and mescaline. Don't tell me not to.

BL: Do you mean all of these together at once?

OP: I did mean everything at once.

BL: DO NOT combine DXM with a MAOi, was is present in ayahuasca, since it has serotonin reuptake inhibiting properties. You probably already knew this,

OP: I've never had an MAOI, so I'm not familiar with what classes of drugs clash with it. Having said that, I'm not going to rush into ayahuasca.

BL: (I)t would be downright stupid to combine with anything that acts (on GABA) in a similar manner, as it would lead to anesthesia or even death. Opiates and other downers are also against my advice, you don't want to be in a bigger haze I think, and drifting off too far can be dangerous I imagine.

OP: I'm still unclear as to why opiates are a bad idea. I don't understand any of the chemistry involved, so I don't know what a central nervous system depressant is and why it is a bad idea to consume that with muscimol.

BL: Also, maybe you should look up what a central nervous system depressant is,

OP: I could do that. Or you could just answer my question.

OP: I want to experiment with combinations is because I believe this drug contains the meaning of life.

BL: You are delusional.

OP: If somebody said "I'm Christian", you wouldn't say they were delusional.

BL: No, I would say they are scared, brainwashed, conditioned as a child, guilt ridden, judgmental and on some huge "I'm better than you" power trip.

OP: I am a prophet. I have experienced what Ezekiel experienced, first hand. Although it is difficult to explain to other people without sounding like a lunatic. I am a master. Everybody around me has fallen. I have been tripping hard for over ten years, taking everything. I never break down. I never form crazy delusions. I can differentiate between standard revelations from psilocybin and messages from God.

BL: I think self-delusion should not be thrown out the window too quickly: Tripping a lot can cause this 'seeing patterns where there are none',

OP: I've had thousands of psilocybin trips. I'm an absolute mushroom nutcase. I've had at least a kilogram of psilocybes over the past year. I'm not exaggerating. I take them even when I'm not on drugs. I take below medicinal below threshold doses. I have been on mushrooms more days over the past year than I have been off them

BL: It seems to me that tryptamines would be the ideal psychedelic combination with Soma. Go for it man,

OP: The first time I had DMT was similar. DMT is nothing in comparison to muscimol. It's difficult to explain, but I can explain it. But I need to include some diagrams and get it right in my head. You have to experience it to understand.

ME: coughdelusionalcough

OP: If what I've experienced is a delusion, I'm not sure I want to know.

ME: Exactly.
 
With my extremely limited experience 2-3gs shouldn't be more impairing than a few drinks.

Anyone more experienced want to confirm/contradict?
And by that do you just mean I'd function as well as on a moderate amount of alcohol, or that it wouldn't be any more interesting? :\
If I'm just going to feel a bit off balance and merry/drowsy I think I'll just have a few drinks!
 
Alf:
Yeah I mean you'd be able to function as well. It's more interesting than alcohol but feels kinda similar, I'd recommend trying those low doses when you'd usually have a few drinks to see how you react before going for a heavy trip and gauge how strong you're batch of amanitas are.

Combined 4gs amanita with 12g kratom and 200mg l-theanine, nodded hard and puked when I chewed a 4mg nicotine gum. I had a drink made and was actually to fucked up to drink it. Made me very talkative too and had a lot of visual noise. Really enjoy the combo.

Rwt nobody wants a summary, espcalliy one that focuses on differing philosophy and not the point of this thread- effects of amanitas combined with other drugs. Lame ass post.
 
Alf:
Yeah I mean you'd be able to function as well. It's more interesting than alcohol but feels kinda similar, I'd recommend trying those low doses when you'd usually have a few drinks to see how you react before going for a heavy trip and gauge how strong you're batch of amanitas are.

Nice one. Unfortunately there is no more of this batch, although they do grow in my mother's front garden so there is always the potential for there to be more...

In the spirit of the OP, how is the combination with cannabis?
I no longer smoke heavily but I do enjoy a puff, especially if there's something else in my system (old habits I guess).
How would a small amount of mellow hash interact?
 
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