almost died on .1 of a molly pill. what happened to me? i dont understand...

[fooder]

that sounds like dxm to me, i had a rollercoaster effect of like horrible feelings and the same like pale face and lip situation with like 300mg, the floaty feeling also kind of corresponds with dxm imo.

 

[severely etarded]

^ no telling.. there's any # of drugs that can make one feel ill.

 

[Yellow-Pudding]

maybe you shouldn't be using mdma while on steroid

 

[samps]

It probably wassent what you Americans refer to as molly, most probly some other shitty chemical also lay of the roids.

 

[sexNcandy]

I'm gonna go ahead and say it doesn't sound like you had a near death experience. If you did, why are you so gung ho on using it again? Yea you said it felt good some of the time but mostly it felt like hell. Well you went through hell and you wanna dive right back in. Oh well.

 

[EntheoDjinn]

Hmmm. blue/purple lips are a sign of cyanosis. And the green skin thing sounds positively weird. There's a high possibility that it was a circulatory problem. Not good at all.

Sounds like using stuff again may be a bit like running the gauntlet.

If you must, and do follow the good advice about testing (although the testing kits don't actually tell you much about what other substances might be in a pill/powder, so don't be too over-confident) titrating from a very low dose (ideally threshold - and of course that may be lower for you than others) might be the way to go. Start with 25mg.

OK it might not have any MDMA effect, but if you're allergic to it then you might have a mild adverse effect. Then you'll know to steer clear of MDMA, if indeed you have managed to source the real thing!

If it's OK you could work up slowly. And of course if you can do the experimenting in a safe place where you can be looked after by friends who are not off their faces and could call the medics should things get wobbly, then you'll be practicing harm-reduction of sorts. Which might save your life or health.

Good luck and stay safe.

 

[JWills20]

(although the testing kits don't actually tell you much about what other substances might be in a pill/powder, so don't be too over-confident)

This isn't true. If the test kit doesn't react, then it's none of the usual ecstasy adulterants. A marquis screens for standard amphetamines, cathinones etc. So it does tell you what other substances are in it. And if it doesn't react, you know it's none of those chemicals, so don't take it.

titrating from a very low dose (ideally threshold - and of course that may be lower for you than others) might be the way to go. Start with 25mg.

25mg isn't really threshold. 40-50mg is a more realistic threshold dose.

 

[Folley]

^ Well, no color change is the reaction for piperazine. So if a pill doesn't react you can deduce that it is either a dud or something VERY nasty.

 

[BlueBull]

This isn't true. If the test kit doesn't react, then it's none of the usual ecstasy adulterants. A marquis screens for standard amphetamines, cathinones etc. So it does tell you what other substances are in it. And if it doesn't react, you know it's none of those chemicals, so don't take it.

Problem is that sometimes if there's a reasonable amount of MDMA in a pill but there's also some other active substance that the MDMA reaction can overpower other colors, even if you look closely.

The last pills I did had a very decent amount of MDMA in them, around 150mg I would gestimate, but I'm also 99% sure there was some speed/amphetamines in there also. Didn't eat for 2 days straight, dilated pupils and shiny/wet-like eyes for 10+ hours after the roll ended, almost no sleep for 2 days. Same for all of my mates.

For me this is a classic reaction to speed, as I never touch the stuff and am very sensitive to it. Had speed pills once (only tested afterwards so dumb mistake but they turned out to be straight up speed pills) and it was exactly the same cracked out after-feeling, same pupils and eyes. And lack of hunger and sleep for much longer than is the case for me with pure MDMA.

Yet no indication of another color in the test (supposed to be green for speed) but a very fast change to dark blue for the MDMA...

 

[VisceralChems]

SSRI's won't give him this reaction. They would've blocked or muted the MDMA effects (if it really was MDMA) but should cause no adverse reaction combined with MDMA. MAOI's on the other hand... So indeed medication is important but it will all be speculation from our side, we will never know for sure

First off, this is entirely false. You can get serotonin syndrome from mixing the two. And I doubt that is the only adverse reaction that is possible.

This isn't true. If the test kit doesn't react, then it's none of the usual ecstasy adulterants. A marquis screens for standard amphetamines, cathinones etc. So it does tell you what other substances are in it. And if it doesn't react, you know it's none of those chemicals, so don't take it.

This is not entirely correct. As EntheoDjinn said, you can reduce your chances for unwanted substances, but even with the tests you can not be 100% confident. First, depending on the test you use, MDMA can have similar reactions to other chemicals. Furthermore, lets say for argument sake you test it with multiple tests, and it reacts exactly like MDMA should ... that STILL DOESNT MEAN IT IS 100% SAFE. For example, if the substance you had contained 25% MDMA and 75% Pipes, the MDMA would make the test appear to prove it is MDMA, and then the Pipes wouldn't react, so you wouldn't even know they were there and it would still be very bad / risky for you.


...The reaction you had sounds VERY dangerous. Again, as EntheoDjinn pointed out, some of the symptoms you had sound like cyanosis...and this can be VERY serious. For example, when people overdose on opiates (like heroin), they exhibit the same symptoms. I am in no way saying I believe there to be opiates in what you took, just point out how serious these symptoms were. Your friends should have probably sought medical attention for you.

I would be very concerned if I were you regarding trying it again. While it is very possible you got some tainted drugs, the fact that only you had this reaction is very concerning, and may just be that you react poorly to this drug (allergic reaction). If for whatever reason you still decide to risk your life trying it again, please make sure you are with friends who will get you to medical attention RIGHT AWAY if it happens again, and as everyone else has said, make sure you test it first!! You may also want to have something written down and kept on you that tells what you took in case you pass out and the paramedics need to know how / what to treat you for.

Very scary...so glad you are OK!! Please be safe and proceed with extreme caution.

P.S. It sounds like you think it may be a hydration issue...which it doesn't sound like to me. Those are signs that your body is not getting enough oxygen, such as from an allergic reaction, overdose, or bad chemical. It is my understanding that a lack of hydration would more likely present signs like fatigue and excess temperature vs the blue lips and discoloration that you described. I would however strongly recommend you that you do not drink alcohol while using it, although two drink was probably not the cause of this reaction.

 

[Folley]

^^ Were you using a mandelin?


The marquis should flash orange before turning to a dirty purple and fading to black if there is MDMA adulterated with meth/amphetamine. You'll need to watch the first 5 seconds VERY closely, it helps to take a video and rewatch a few times.

This is not entirely correct. As EntheoDjinn said, you can reduce your chances for unwanted substances, but even with the tests you can not be 100% confident. First, depending on the test you use, MDMA can have similar reactions to other chemicals. Furthermore, lets say for argument sake you test it with multiple tests, and it reacts exactly like MDMA should ... that STILL DOESNT MEAN IT IS 100% SAFE. For example, if the substance you had contained 25% MDMA and 75% Pipes, the MDMA would make the test appear to prove it is MDMA, and then the Pipes wouldn't react, so you wouldn't even know they were there and it would still be very bad / risky for you.

Not many other chemicals will have the same reaction as MDMA. 6-APB and it's related analogues will usually turn to a deep purple, not the same as MDMA albeit VERY similar. Luckily they are not often sold as MDMA considering they're relatively rare and more expensive than cathinones and other adulterants. A few other chemicals can set off similar reactions, there was a "MDMA methylene homolog" being found in pills that we're all a bit stumped about. My best guess would be that it is to fool the testers, as it is nearly always found in pretty nasty pills. Even then, check this nasty out.... the Mecke and Mandelin seem fine but that marquis is OBVIOUSLY wrong.


You are correct though. You shouldn't trust a reagent blindly. It's best to use the tests in conjunction with Pill Reports/your friends testimonies, with just a little bit of common sense on the side. If something feels wrong, don't do it.

 

[BlueBull]

First off, this is entirely false. You can get serotonin syndrome from mixing the two. And I doubt that is the only adverse reaction that is possible.

I have not heard of this... Is this anecdotal or do you have a source for this? I do not ask this to disprove you or anything. It's just that to my knowledge and from what I've read on this forum SSRI's, while blocking or muting a roll will not cause adverse reactions and will not cause serotonin syndrome, because they in fact stop the MDMA from flooding your synapses with serotonin, thus making it impossible to suffer from serotonin syndrome. MAOI's on the other hand can be fatal if combined and are able to cause serotonin syndrome when used in tandem with MDMA. If my information is incorrect I would like to know you see, so I don't spread false information...

^^ Were you using a mandelin?


The marquis should flash orange before turning to a dirty purple and fading to black if there is MDMA adulterated with meth/amphetamine. You'll need to watch the first 5 seconds VERY closely, it helps to take a video and rewatch a few times.

Yes indeed mandelin, which should turn a light to medium green for amps. But I did not notice any other colors. The shift to dark blue happened fast though so I am not entirely sure light green would be noticeable when there's a good amount of MDMA in them. Did the test twice, once with a very small sample and once with a big sample. Both times under a very bright white light and with a white background. I used to have both marquis and mandelin but my marquis ran out, should order me a new one. Actually it's the EZTest ecstasy and the EZTest Ketamine, but those are marquis and mandelin respectively...

 

[VisceralChems]

I have not heard of this... Is this anecdotal or do you have a source for this? I do not ask this to disprove you or anything. It's just that to my knowledge and from what I've read on this forum SSRI's, while blocking or muting a roll will not cause adverse reactions and will not cause serotonin syndrome, because they in fact stop the MDMA from flooding your synapses with serotonin, thus making it impossible to suffer from serotonin syndrome. MAOI's on the other hand can be fatal if combined and are able to cause serotonin syndrome when used in tandem with MDMA. If my information is incorrect I would like to know you see, so I don't spread false information...

Hi BlueBull, I don't mind if you disprove me, much like you, I would very much welcome being corrected so that I am not misinformed and thus spread incorrect information as well. I have seen multiple claims on forums that SSRIs definitively can cause serotonin syndrome (SS), as well as multiple claims that it cannot cause SS. My personal understanding based on past research is that SSRIs cause increased levels of serotonin in the brain (by stopping your body from reabsorb them after released) and MDMA causes your body to release high levels of serotonin, thus resulting in the potential for too much serotonin (e.g serotonin syndrom). Furthermore, I actually discussed this with my medical doctor when he asked why I was not taking my SSRI, and I told him I was afraid of combining opiates with SSRIs due to the potential of SS. Although this is possible, he had not heard of it happening, but he said he specifically had seen an instance of SS caused by a mixture of an SSRI and Ecstasy. However, I do not have a direct research paper to point to (although a quick google search provides support to this claim), and he kept switching his statement between SSRI's and SNRI's, so take it for what its worth. I just think it is a pretty dangerous statement to claim that "[An SSRI] should cause no adverse reaction combined with MDMA." Particularly since even various SSRIs can have a wide range of reactions / interactions even though they are within the same drug family.

I don't have the time to do the proper detailed research at the moment, but I will be looking into it further. If you find something that is more definitive, I would appreciate it if you could send it to me / let me know!

 

[osfp_malaka]

Lurked here for 5 years, bout time to make an account and this whole thread is just too facepalm worthy not to engage.

To the guy who doesn't believe in serotonin syndrome when MDMA is ingested while on an SSRI, do your research or ask a doctor.

To the guy above me, if you are not taking your prescribed medicine from a PROFESSIONAL doctor just because you want to take MDMA, you are seriously a moron. You were scared of SS with opiates (I assume are also prescribed) and SSRIs? What a terrible excuse, if he hasn't heard of it happening as a doctor who has gone through medical school and has practiced X amount of years, then you just sound like even more of a moron. Why not be honest with him and tell him why you really don't take them? If you want to be lesser of an asshole to your doctor who is looking out for your well-being, how about saying you've read about MDMA therapeutic therapy and engage in said therapy once every other month or something. Or be straight up with him - "Yeah doc, I've been doing lots of research on these drug websites and stuff and I really wanna take ecstacy at this rave next weekend, so that's why I'm wasting my time and more importantly your time here when you're just trying to help me!

 

[osfp_malaka]

Also, just through 5 minutes of Googling, OP - you look like you take anabolic steroids, forgive me if I'm wrong but it looks kinda obvious. Bupropion and steroids are a BAD combo as they both exacerbate each other's effects on the body. I used to be on bupropion and it is a cathinone which can be abused and also will give you a seizure at doses near 1000mg, sometimes lower when starting. I had like 5 of them because I would IV the bupropion and it gave a better rush than fishscale coke - so good it is in my top 5 of all drugs IV'd. I don't know much about steroids and if they mess with your circulatory system, but cathinones surely do, which causes the discoloring like people back in the day on mephedrone having purple knees.

My hypothesis - you got a shitty pill that was cathinone based and it had an interaction with your steroids, if you take them. If you don't take steroids, then an allergic reaction seems like the most reasonable answer - it def has something to do with your circulatory system and it must've been a speedy pill, possibly cathinone containing

 

[BlueBull]

Firstly I should remark that VisceralChems is right, I should not state that an SSRI and MDMA, though not wise to do so, are always safe to combine. There are still a lot of unknowns and there can be situations where this combination is dangerous. It is never wise to combine two chemicals which have such a radical influence on a persons brain chemistry. It's just that when it comes to serotonin syndrome specifically I am not convinced there is any danger...

Hi BlueBull, I don't mind if you disprove me, much like you, I would very much welcome being corrected so that I am not misinformed and thus spread incorrect information as well. I have seen multiple claims on forums that SSRIs definitively can cause serotonin syndrome (SS), as well as multiple claims that it cannot cause SS. My personal understanding based on past research is that SSRIs cause increased levels of serotonin in the brain (by stopping your body from reabsorb them after released) and MDMA causes your body to release high levels of serotonin, thus resulting in the potential for too much serotonin (e.g serotonin syndrom). Furthermore, I actually discussed this with my medical doctor when he asked why I was not taking my SSRI, and I told him I was afraid of combining opiates with SSRIs due to the potential of SS. Although this is possible, he had not heard of it happening, but he said he specifically had seen an instance of SS caused by a mixture of an SSRI and Ecstasy. However, I do not have a direct research paper to point to (although a quick google search provides support to this claim), and he kept switching his statement between SSRI's and SNRI's, so take it for what its worth. I just think it is a pretty dangerous statement to claim that "[An SSRI] should cause no adverse reaction combined with MDMA." Particularly since even various SSRIs can have a wide range of reactions / interactions even though they are within the same drug family.

I don't have the time to do the proper detailed research at the moment, but I will be looking into it further. If you find something that is more definitive, I would appreciate it if you could send it to me / let me know!

Actually an SSRI stops the reuptake of serotonin by disabling the re-uptake mechanism. And because MDMA uses this reuptake mechanism to reach it's desired effect, blocking it with an SSRI will negate the effects of MDMA and stop it from using the re-uptake mechanism to flood the synaptic cleft with serotonin. MDMA reverses the re-uptake mechanism which causes serotonin to be pumped out rather than re-absorbed, so blocking this mechanism in this case will not increase serotonin levels in the synaptic cleft, at least not by much. OD on an SSRI can cause serotonin syndrome but this has nothing to do with MDMA. Furthermore Because an SSRI has a greater binding affinity than MDMA it will take priority in binding with SERT, so it's method of action will take priority. So while you are indeed correct that an SSRI will increase serotonin levels, it should not increase it to dangerous levels when combined with MDMA as the MDMA itself does not increase the serotonin levels in this case, because it is being blocked from doing so by the SSRI

To the guy who doesn't believe in serotonin syndrome when MDMA is ingested while on an SSRI, do your research or ask a doctor.

I have done my research and asked my psych about this combination. To my knowledge an SSRI has a greater affinity for SERT than MDMA. MDMA works by reversing the re-uptake mechanism which pumps out serotonin rather than re-absorbing it. So blocking this mechanism will block MDMA from working and should not increase serotonin levels in the synaptic cleft (at least not by much, MDMA alone would increase it much much more)

And excerpt from a study done on MDMA and serotonin syndrome. VisceralChems or anyone else If you want the full article let me know, I have uploaded it and I will send it to you:

Substances that inhibit serotonin re-uptake are not likely to
increase serotonin to life-threatening levels if used with ecstasy
[23,26,31]. These substances include SSRI antidepressants (e.g.
citalopram, fluoxetine, paroxetine), the SNRI venlafaxine, tricyclic
antidepressants (e.g. clomipramine, imipramine), opioid analgesics
(e.g. tramadol, dextromethorphan) and antihistamines (e.g. chlor
pheniramine, brompheniramine). These drugs differ from other
serotonergic drugs in that they compete with MDMA at the
serotonin receptor site and, therefore, diminish the effects of
MDMA [23,31].
Controlled studies have found that the physiological and
subjective effects of ecstasy are substantially reduced in participants
given citalopram [32,33]. Results from animal experiments also
show that some SSRIs block the MDMA-induced release of
serotonin [31,34-36]. Interestingly, additional evidence from
animal models suggests that some SSRIs may protect against the
long-lasting neurotoxic effects of MDMA [36-38]. Whether this is
the case in humans is yet to be determined.

and

you are seriously a moron.... Then you just sound like even more of a moron.... If you want to be lesser of an asshole...

So you lurk around here for 5 years and then start throwing around random claims and names and you still want to be taken seriously? Give me a break man. First learn to discuss something like an adult, without calling someone names, then maybe I will take you seriously. It's easy to have an opinion. To communicate that opinion in a normal fashion and to back it up with facts, now that is a bit harder...

 

[JWills20]

Alot of amateur neuroscience shit thrown around in this thread now. Just for the record, and as Bluebull quite rightly points, MDMA & SSRI's will not cause SS. Intuitively, it might appear like they do, but this is a flawed claim. Intuitively, SSRI's increase serotonin, MDMA massively increases serotonin = SS. However, in reality what happens is that the SSRI binds to the reuptake transporter at the end of cell, blocking the reuptake, which causes the increase in serotonin. So basically what happens, is when someone becomes a regular user of SSRI's, the SSRI is bound to the reuptake site, so when MDMA comes along and tries to bind to them, it can't, so it just gradually leaves the body like it usually would. Hence, MDMA's serotonin release becomes much lower than usual, hence no SS, hence quite the opposite infact - less serotonin. Remember that Ecstasy sold on the streets is often not just MDMA. So any cases of Ecstasy + SSRI's causing SS (which are extremely rare) are probably down to adulterants.

Problem is that sometimes if there's a reasonable amount of MDMA in a pill but there's also some other active substance that the MDMA reaction can overpower other colors, even if you look closely.

I think a big problem here is that instead of the test kit not detecting it in the actual sample, the small amount you've scraped into the kit is just MDMA. Say the proportion of MDMA is 90%, with 10% amphetamine, then the chances are your sample tested is just going to be MDMA, and not a combined mixture of MDMA & amphetamine. So, the test kit deceives you into thinking it's just MDMA. Does that make sense?

For example, if the substance you had contained 25% MDMA and 75% Pipes, the MDMA would make the test appear to prove it is MDMA, and then the Pipes wouldn't react, so you wouldn't even know they were there and it would still be very bad / risky for you.

I think you're misinterpreting the meaning of 'wouldn't react'. If a pill was an MDMA/Pipe combo, it should show some black discolouration (MDMA) amongst some translucent colouring (reflecting the pipe). When they say 'doesn't react' it means it won't change a specific colour. So, you can tell if your pill is adulterated, because ALL of the sample should go black if it's just MDMA. If only half of it goes black, or the black is weak, or some of the sample hasn't reacted, then you know that it's not just MDMA. I hope that makes sense.

To the guy above me, if you are not taking your prescribed medicine from a PROFESSIONAL doctor just because you want to take MDMA, you are seriously a moron. You were scared of SS with opiates (I assume are also prescribed) and SSRIs? What a terrible excuse, if he hasn't heard of it happening as a doctor who has gone through medical school and has practiced X amount of years, then you just sound like even more of a moron. Why not be honest with him and tell him why you really don't take them? If you want to be lesser of an asshole to your doctor who is looking out for your well-being, how about saying you've read about MDMA therapeutic therapy and engage in said therapy once every other month or something. Or be straight up with him - "Yeah doc, I've been doing lots of research on these drug websites and stuff and I really wanna take ecstacy at this rave next weekend, so that's why I'm wasting my time and more importantly your time here when you're just trying to help me

Let's leave the judgemental bullshit at the door please. BL is a place void of judgement and harsh opinions. Show some respect.

 

[VisceralChems]

Alot of amateur neuroscience shit thrown around in this thread now. Just for the record, and as Bluebull quite rightly points, MDMA & SSRI's will not cause SS. Intuitively, it might appear like they do, but this is a flawed claim. Intuitively, SSRI's increase serotonin, MDMA massively increases serotonin = SS. However, in reality what happens is that the SSRI binds to the reuptake transporter at the end of cell, blocking the reuptake, which causes the increase in serotonin. So basically what happens, is when someone becomes a regular user of SSRI's, the SSRI is bound to the reuptake site, so when MDMA comes along and tries to bind to them, it can't, so it just gradually leaves the body like it usually would. Hence, MDMA's serotonin release becomes much lower than usual, hence no SS, hence quite the opposite infact - less serotonin. Remember that Ecstasy sold on the streets is often not just MDMA. So any cases of Ecstasy + SSRI's causing SS (which are extremely rare) are probably down to adulterants.

Okay, so I have done some more research, and let me say that I tend to agree with BlueBull and JWills20 that it appears MDMA combined with SSRIs do not appear present a high risk of SS; however, I am still not confident enough to say that it has zero possibility. A lot of the research I read talked more about SSRIs and MDMA having the ability to cause SS independent of each other, and would just make some vague reference that combining two substances that both increase serotonin have the potential of causing SS. Or they would state that combining the two could cause SS without substantiating discussion. Therefore, I am not going to quote them as they did not provide any actual worthy explanation of how specifically combining MDMA and an SSRI would result in SS, and some even proposed taking an SSRI after "coming down" from MDMA use could actually reduce neurotoxity . The closest one came was to say that SSRIs do not block all reuptake transporters, and thus the use of MDMA (although muted compared to having no SSRI in system) would still have the potential to increase serotonin levels in the brain ... albeit to less degree and thus less potential than high doses of MDMA by itself, and likely a much higher dose of MDMA would be required.


Regardless, my original point was just that the claim that SSRIs and MDMA could have NO adverse reactions is not necessarily true. As JWills20 referenced, and my doctor stated, there have been known cases of the combination resulting in adverse reactions. Now, whether the reason was as JWills20 proposed and was due to adulterants rather than actual MDMA, or whether it was due to either one of the drugs being taking inappropriately (i.e. someone SSRI naive taking an overly large amounts prior to MDMA, or taking excessive amounts of MDMA to defeat the SSRIs counter-measures) is ultimately unknown, but I think we can all agree they are rare. Despite being rare, for the sake of HR, someone should always approach combining any active substances with caution and an informed understanding of what the potential risks are.

I think you're misinterpreting the meaning of 'wouldn't react'. If a pill was an MDMA/Pipe combo, it should show some black discolouration (MDMA) amongst some translucent colouring (reflecting the pipe). When they say 'doesn't react' it means it won't change a specific colour. So, you can tell if your pill is adulterated, because ALL of the sample should go black if it's just MDMA. If only half of it goes black, or the black is weak, or some of the sample hasn't reacted, then you know that it's not just MDMA. I hope that makes sense.

Perhaps you are correct, especially with my extreme example of 1 part MDMA 3 part Pipes, especially if you are using all available tests; however, in my experience with testing it is rare to see separate colors swirling around, and thus it is VERY difficult to determine with any degree of certainty whether or not you have 100% MDMA vs a mixture of MDMA + adulturants. Especially when you are only using one test, have a high ratio of testing solution to substance, thus resulting in some clear unreacted testing solution, or if it has been adulturated with none concerning fillers (such as sugar). I am actually going to be sending a sample into the lab soon because it is so close, but I can't tell 100% from the tests I have.

To the guy above me, if you are not taking your prescribed medicine from a PROFESSIONAL doctor just because you want to take MDMA, you are seriously a moron. You were scared of SS with opiates (I assume are also prescribed) and SSRIs? What a terrible excuse, if he hasn't heard of it happening as a doctor who has gone through medical school and has practiced X amount of years, then you just sound like even more of a moron. Why not be honest with him and tell him why you really don't take them? If you want to be lesser of an asshole to your doctor who is looking out for your well-being, how about saying you've read about MDMA therapeutic therapy and engage in said therapy once every other month or something. Or be straight up with him - "Yeah doc, I've been doing lots of research on these drug websites and stuff and I really wanna take ecstacy at this rave next weekend, so that's why I'm wasting my time and more importantly your time here when you're just trying to help me!

I am not sure where your rude and ignorant statement is coming from, but unfortunately your statement is completely unfounded and pointless as the reason I was not taking SSRIs had nothing to do with wanting to take MDMA. Also, your presumption that the opiates were prescribed was also false, which is why I was honest about it with him and thus why the conversation was had in the first place. Furthermore, opiates and SSRIs do have documented warnings for SS, even so, I never argued with him, I simply raised the potential concern. Lastly, if you assume that all doctors know exactly what they are talking about, and that you should blinding follow their advice, I feel sorry for you, and you should do some more research about people's negative experiences with DRs.

 

[JWills20]

Okay, so I have done some more research, and let me say that I tend to agree with BlueBull and JWills20 that it appears MDMA combined with SSRIs do not appear present a high risk of SS; however, I am still not confident enough to say that it has zero possibility.

I agree that you can never say never. But this is true for anything in life. There's a 'chance' you'll win the lottery. There's a chance your heart will stop working right now. Law of probability suggests that there is a chance of practically anything happening. But if the probability of something happening is so unlikely, is it worth really discussing it within HR? Where do we draw the line between risk & benefit to then conduct the activity? It becomes a little pedantic if we begin to provide HR advice which takes into account all the possible risks, despite their poor probability. If you go down this road, the obvious choice is never take any drugs, don't drive a car, avoid all sharp objects etc etc. It's no longer HR... It's prohibition!

A lot of the research I read talked more about SSRIs and MDMA having the ability to cause SS independent of each other, and would just make some vague reference that combining two substances that both increase serotonin have the potential of causing SS. Or they would state that combining the two could cause SS without substantiating discussion. Therefore, I am not going to quote them as they did not provide any actual worthy explanation of how specifically combining MDMA and an SSRI would result in SS, and some even proposed taking an SSRI after "coming down" from MDMA use could actually reduce neurotoxity . The closest one came was to say that SSRIs do not block all reuptake transporters, and thus the use of MDMA (although muted compared to having no SSRI in system) would still have the potential to increase serotonin levels in the brain ... albeit to less degree and thus less potential than high doses of MDMA by itself, and likely a much higher dose of MDMA would be required.

The problem with SS is that it's become more and more loosely defined, and is thrown around far too loosely as well. The definition is becoming less and less extreme, with symptoms reflecting things like: bruxism, eye wobbles, elevated HR, elevated BP. So in this sense, the MDMA experience itself is a mild form of SS. It used to, and should, just mean a state of extreme and severe serotonin increase caused by drugs that have a synergistic releasing effect on serotonin. Like far higher than MDMA can induce alone, and MDMA is the most potent serotonin-releasing drug we know of. Like MDMA & MAOIs, where the MDMA has reversed the transporter which is one means of reducing synaptic serotonin, and the MAOI then blocks enzymes responsible for breaking down the synaptic serotonin, so the serotonin spike is just extremely high and the body can't get rid of any of it.

 

[VisceralChems]

^^ Very true. Again, the only reason I brought it up initially was because I had seen contradicting research and specific commentary from a medical doctor within the past week. After doing even more research, like I stated, I do agree with you and BlueBull regarding the low probability, that the occurrences were likely instead caused by either misusing either the SSRI or MDMA individually (or other adulterants all together) and thus would not have brought it up initially. However, just because SS may be a low probability, the world of antidepressants is so vast, and I would weary saying there are "no adverse effects from the combination," which can include something other than SS, as my personal philosophy is that the best combination is no combination (due to the vast amount of variables and unknowns involved). However, like I said, I wouldn't have brought it up for HR sake to just incorporate those rare and unknown potentials, and regret opening that can of worms as it has gotten us off topic a bit, as I don't think anyone was really saying the OP experienced SS anyway.