• TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | Eligiu | deficiT

Alcohol or Benzos?

Benzo's. Way eassier to taper. Tapering Alcohol is nearly impossible.

And because Alcohol effect's so many things beside GABA-a, benzo's only cover the GABA-a so you still feel like shit.
Alcohol is also more 'euphoric/ recreational' and easy available.
No they are not, 5 days of pure misery for alcohol and benzos and opiods together can easily make it bearable.
It takes a long time once your body is use to benzos, my doctor talked about a year to a year and half. But I am essentially dying( I have chirosis and was diagnosed 8 years ago and feel like shit and can barely eat) But then again who knows. You got that euphoric part right, especially for me( when I drank, and especially in the beginning, for me it was the best euphoric feeling, I would listen to some good music and drink and read. Alone but as happy as I could ever be. Although drinking beer and shooting pool was quite enjoyable when I was in a social mood.
 
A lemon water and a benzo please. Yeh.

I guess this isn't the drinking forum . . . or is it !!
 
Benzos are way better. Civilized drug. Alcohol made me an imbecile. But The key factor is The dose.
I could never be a moderate drinker, I was once in a while a bad drunk and trouble would occasionally follow.
 
No they are not, 5 days of pure misery for alcohol and benzos and opiods together can easily make it bearable.
It takes a long time once your body is use to benzos, my doctor talked about a year to a year and half. But I am essentially dying( I have chirosis and was diagnosed 8 years ago and feel like shit and can barely eat) But then again who knows. You got that euphoric part right, especially for me( when I drank, and especially in the beginning, for me it was the best euphoric feeling, I would listen to some good music and drink and read. Alone but as happy as I could ever be. Although drinking beer and shooting pool was quite enjoyable when I was in a social mood.

Is there any chance you could get a transplant? I also found alcohol incredibly euphoric especially when I first started abusing it. I remember reading Allen Carr's the easy way to stop drinking and he absurdly tried to argue that we only think alcohol is euphoric because we associate it with joyous circumstances like weddings, vacations, parties, hanging out with friends and the like. In my experience however, I'd often find myself alone, depressed, anxious and on the brink of despair only to feel this incredible happiness coming upon me after drinking a few beers. It was so euphoric, the only drug I would rank above it in terms of euphoria is crack but with crack you get ridiculous peaks and valleys between hits whereas with alcohol you can get a more sustained euphoric feeling.
 
Google kava bars in your area.
I found two in the whole state of Michigan. (OK, Dearborn is still a bit of a drive) Neither are anywhere close too the suburb of Detroit I live in. Besides with all the meds I'm on, who knows what the Interaction with kava could be. Also I have been warned about possible liver damage, which I can't handle.
 
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Yeah I wasn't recommending you take up kava drinking I have no idea if that's safe with cirrhosis I just thought it might be interesting to see if there were any in your are.
 
Having been dependent on both simultaneously, all I can say is alcohol was a walk in the park to quit. I'm still dependant on Valium 5 years after my last drink. At least I'm halfway through my taper 🙏
 
Why not both? Pyeyzolam is an a5b1y1 selective GABA PAM and so it's effects closely mimic alcohol.

But no mood lability, no loss of executive function, no retrograde amnesia and of course, no toxicity.

I think we figured 30mg of pyeyzolam was like drinking 2 bottles of wine in 30 minutes. Take more and you just fall asleep (but it doesn't alter sleep architecture so you wake refreshed).

Pyeyzolam doesn't undergo the usual ADME but rather ADRE so no metabolites - it's all removed by the kidneys.
 
Is there any chance you could get a transplant? I also found alcohol incredibly euphoric especially when I first started abusing it. I remember reading Allen Carr's the easy way to stop drinking and he absurdly tried to argue that we only think alcohol is euphoric because we associate it with joyous circumstances like weddings, vacations, parties, hanging out with friends and the like. In my experience however, I'd often find myself alone, depressed, anxious and on the brink of despair only to feel this incredible happiness coming upon me after drinking a few beers. It was so euphoric, the only drug I would rank above it in terms of euphoria is crack but with crack you get ridiculous peaks and valleys between hits whereas with alcohol you can get a more sustained euphoric feeling.
They (the doctors) said to me I could get on the donor list back in December 2015 if I drove to Detroit to some place and pissed in a cup everyday for 6 months.( to make sure I wasn't drinking) They said I had a year to live without one. At the time I was on Medicaid and now I am not and am stuck on shitty insurance that I have to buy. Medicaid would have paid for it.
But now I could end up with a hugh bill that would really hurt my financial situation. Besides I am not really looking to live a real long life anyways.
I am not suicidal, and in not an option as far as I am concerned. I out lived my parents and my only sibling( my little sister). I have some family but they are far away. I am alone and can survive for a while and besides: I destroyed my liver. Also my pancreas is giving me trouble also. However, things have stayed the same and I am greatful that I am allergic to alcohol. If I had a new,( new to me) liver I would be stuck on certain anti transplant rejection drugs.
Besides, I will die when the Lord says it is time. Also, there may be someone else who could get the liver, that didn't destroy theirs and needs It because of another reason other than abusing their body the way I did for 20+ years. According to the doctors, I should have been dead 7 years ago,( like I said I will die when ALMIGHTY GOD says it is time).
The worst part is that I would just turn back into a raging alcoholic and would probably not have access to the benzos and opiods I would need to fight alcohol withdrawal when the times when I need to be sober, In order to get things done.
I am now in my later 40's and probably went through alcohol withdrawal 100's of times. The last time was the worst, and I had my father to take me to the hospital and now if I were to be able to drink again, I don't believe that I could stay sober. Now that I am on my own, being sober is the only way that I can remain semi- functional.
If I were to get get a transplant I would just turn back into a drunken mess and would probably not be able to survive the withdrawals the way I could when I was younger. Even then I was hospitalized many times. The older I got the worse( granted they only last for 5 days) the psychological aspect was horrible, I couldn't eat for usually 5 days and at time I couldn't keep liquids down, and sometimes I could barely move.
But at least then, I had my dad who would buy me a pint of vodka or a 40 or 2 of malt liquor to help me ease off the withdrawals some. Now it would be a disaster if I could drink.
You are absolutely right about the sustained Euphoria. The idea that it is euphoric because we associate it with happy occasions actually made me laugh. You are right that it mood elevator that brings sustained euphoria and the idea that we only think it is euphoric because of some happy memories is beyond ridiculous. I too know all too well what being on the brink of despair and then chugging some malt liquor and then, bye bye despair: Hello some hours of euphoric happiness.
Anyways thank you for the reply, and it is nice too hear from someone who understands, the temporary, very euphoric effects, even while extremely depressed that alcohol can bring. Unfortunately their is a price to pay for that temporarily fix. Best of luck.
 
Having been dependent on both simultaneously, all I can say is alcohol was a walk in the park to quit. I'm still dependant on Valium 5 years after my last drink. At least I'm halfway through my taper 🙏
I agree because although alcohol withdrawal is pure misery( for up to about 5 days without benzos) and throw in some opiods, problem solved.
You are absolutely right about benzos. Long term use( trust me I know all too well) are a nightmare. I switched after about 6 and a half years from Ativan( lorazepam) to Valium (diazepam) because it is a long lasting and milder benzo,( Thank you various BL members). I know if I quit CT, it could kill me. My doctor was talking about a year or more to taper of benzos. It must be noted that when I started using them(legally) I wasn't really expected to live very long( cirrhosis).
mauve good luck on your taper, and staying away from drinking.
.
Lots of people on this board who know more than me will give you solid tapering advice and support in quitting. You might have tapered too quickly if you went from 30 mg a day to zero in a week. You may or may not be in seizure territory, so please learn what you can and be safe and you've got this!

I don't have experience with real benzo wds but I've got to think that the K will help quite a bit for the extremely short period of time it lasts and it probably wouldn't be great for you to stay in a K hole for for days on end while your wds pass...
You are right, 30mgs of Valium to none in a short period could be way way too fast and potentially life threatening. Valium has a long half life and the withdrawals could take a while too really kick in. Oddly enough, that is exactly what I am prescribed.
 
I broke rule 1 and ended up taking 24mg of dliclazepam a day (that equates to 360mg of diazepam). I had been tapering but was about to run out. My wife went to our doctor and proposed a plan. So I began at 140mg diazepam a day and stopped in around a year.

The odd thing? When I got down to 10mg a day... I just stopped. I have no idea why.

But it appears that benzodiazepines alters brain chemistry. A decade later and diazepam does nothing for me.

Luckily I take clobazam to control epilepsy and 1,4 and 1,5 benzodiazepines bind at totally different sites so that still works for me.

Good luck to you.
 
They (the doctors) said to me I could get on the donor list back in December 2015 if I drove to Detroit to some place and pissed in a cup everyday for 6 months.( to make sure I wasn't drinking) They said I had a year to live without one. At the time I was on Medicaid and now I am not and am stuck on shitty insurance that I have to buy. Medicaid would have paid for it.
But now I could end up with a hugh bill that would really hurt my financial situation. Besides I am not really looking to live a real long life anyways.
I am not suicidal, and in not an option as far as I am concerned. I out lived my parents and my only sibling( my little sister). I have some family but they are far away. I am alone and can survive for a while and besides: I destroyed my liver. Also my pancreas is giving me trouble also. However, things have stayed the same and I am greatful that I am allergic to alcohol. If I had a new,( new to me) liver I would be stuck on certain anti transplant rejection drugs.
Besides, I will die when the Lord says it is time. Also, there may be someone else who could get the liver, that didn't destroy theirs and needs It because of another reason other than abusing their body the way I did for 20+ years. According to the doctors, I should have been dead 7 years ago,( like I said I will die when ALMIGHTY GOD says it is time).
The worst part is that I would just turn back into a raging alcoholic and would probably not have access to the benzos and opiods I would need to fight alcohol withdrawal when the times when I need to be sober, In order to get things done.
I am now in my later 40's and probably went through alcohol withdrawal 100's of times. The last time was the worst, and I had my father to take me to the hospital and now if I were to be able to drink again, I don't believe that I could stay sober. Now that I am on my own, being sober is the only way that I can remain semi- functional.
If I were to get get a transplant I would just turn back into a drunken mess and would probably not be able to survive the withdrawals the way I could when I was younger. Even then I was hospitalized many times. The older I got the worse( granted they only last for 5 days) the psychological aspect was horrible, I couldn't eat for usually 5 days and at time I couldn't keep liquids down, and sometimes I could barely move.
But at least then, I had my dad who would buy me a pint of vodka or a 40 or 2 of malt liquor to help me ease off the withdrawals some. Now it would be a disaster if I could drink.
You are absolutely right about the sustained Euphoria. The idea that it is euphoric because we associate it with happy occasions actually made me laugh. You are right that it mood elevator that brings sustained euphoria and the idea that we only think it is euphoric because of some happy memories is beyond ridiculous. I too know all too well what being on the brink of despair and then chugging some malt liquor and then, bye bye despair: Hello some hours of euphoric happiness.
Anyways thank you for the reply, and it is nice too hear from someone who understands, the temporary, very euphoric effects, even while extremely depressed that alcohol can bring. Unfortunately their is a price to pay for that temporarily fix. Best of luck.

Ah I understand. I honestly wouldn't want to do a transplant either. I recently had a liver scare myself after finding out I'd had hep c for past decade which I must have picked up during my IV heroin days. Luckily after the scan I found out I don't have cirrhosis just a lot of liver inflammation which can go away if the hep c is cured. I never worried about my liver when I was drinking because I always knew my stomach would give out long before my liver and that's actually why I stopped drinking was that I kept getting alcoholic gastritis and I wasn't even drinking much compared to most alcoholics. I'll never understand how some people can stomach a bottle of vodka a day for 20 plus years but we're all made differently I guess. I'm glad you outlived the doctors expectations and seem able to accept your circumstances.
 
5 day max withdrawals and benzos and opiods can make it almost painless.
My doc told me 1 to 1 1/2 years to get off the benzos I've been on for nearly 7 years.
I got hospitalized for a couple of weeks, years ago and within hours I was sober( minus the morphine and lorazepam.) I abused alcohol for 21 years. Benzos are nightmare to get off, of. If I quit, I probably die.
Benzos are the worst especially after long term use. I'd take the alcohol if it was a couple beers a day for that time. But I'd rather have neither ever.
 
Benzos are the worst especially after long term use. I'd take the alcohol if it was a couple beers a day for that time. But I'd rather have neither ever.
Long term use of alcohol, after the withdrawals, some don't have any, usually last less than a week. And can be treated with benzos and opiods also help alongside the benzos, also lots of liquids, especially Gatorade or similar drinks. For me 5 days. It is a matter of willpower.
Now with long term benzo use it can take a year or more to taper down, and withdraw can kill you, especially if you have been a daily user of them for a long time.
This is one subject that unfortunately I have a lot of experience with.
 
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They even made Kava Kava illegal in Europe.

Can't grasp who must have came up with that great idea.

I believe it was because unscrupulous suppliers were harvesting the entire plant. Parts of the plant contain a chemical that can result in severe liver injury. In cultures where kava is a traditional medicine, this issue is understood and only certain parts of the plant are used.

But I guess that the people who were selling the stuff didn't feel responsible the long-term health of their customers.

So their was a rationale behind the legal control.

The main active in Kava is kavain and it appears that it has issues. It may prove the basis for an improved treatment for epilepsy but it's not without risk.
 
But if somebody were holding a gun to your head and you had to choose between being addicted to alcohol or being addicted to benzos, which would you pick to give yourself the best chance of getting clean again 6-8 months in the future?
I only read the first post, so I'll jump over all the obvious (for me) things. Though benzo addiction is a serious thing, and I've a very close friend who was addicted to benzos (flunitrazepam since age 15), I would chose benzos. Alcohol seems nice when you are 13 or 21 and like to behave as dumb as the guy next to you. It's party and don't give a fuck. Fun for a some time, but then it gets dull.
Benzos, that's another thing. You can get pretty clumsy on them as well, like zombie clumsy if you don't drink enough water, but I never felt stupid-clumsy while on benzos. And there is no diarrhoe involved. Addiction is no fun, no matter to what. But if I had to chose how to spend my time, I'd rather pop benzos at whatever place I like and let life slowly pass by than to sit at home or in a bar and fall all over myself whenever I have to go to the bathroom.
 
I went down too quick on the benzos and once I hit 1 mg I was hurting mentally, physically and I needed to go back up to 2 mg. But from 4 mg to 1 mg in 2 weeks was too much to quick. I need to take my time with the detox. I wish I never knew about any meds nor took any ever. They are a pitfall and don't grow on trees. You need to keep seeing the doc and more refills. Damn Rockefeller medicine!
 
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