Advice on first cycle - Strength, martial arts

Samurai_Black

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Messages
16
Hey guys, thanks for all the info shared so far, it's been very helpful. I'll give a little background, why I want to to use steroids, and ask for your advice and experience :) I know this isn't medical advice, but what would you suggest to me?

29 UK male, been training since I was a child, mostly in different martial arts. Been using weights for over a decade, favouring power lifting over body building. I've had a repeat shoulder dislocation, each time was a painful injury, the last time was early 2013. I'm lucky that I don't need surgery, and I feel my strength coming back again with a decent program but I want to boost my training. I've been through physio etc and I've been toying with the idea of steroids for a long time. I know many pro's use steroids just in regular training, I use my body to make a living, between coaching and grafting, so I want to get myself back on track.

I've always been really lean, I weigh about 66kg right now, 5'10. I'm not bothered about bulking up, although I know it will happen, it's not a negative, just not my goal. What I really want to do is build as much strength back in my shoulder as possible, ditto for the rest of my body!

Age: 29
Weight/height: 66kg / 145lbs - 178cm / 5'10
AAS experience: Many training partners on steroids, never used myself.
Goals: Strength, Athletic Performance
BF%: 6-7%
Diet: Clean, mostly fresh and home made
Work out schedule: Not set in stone, I'm open to suggestions. Currently training hard with around 20 min spent on hard intervals for cardio, and weights 3 out of 5 days, light stretching most days.

Let me know if you need to know anything else helpful :)
 
It depends on your comfort level with using PEDs. I mean you can go from something as simple as a basic SARM or Peptide run, to a basic AAS run or a combination. You could be talking about laying in a year long course of cycles that increase as the year goes on, with cycling between 12-16 week AAS courses, with 6-12 week long SARM/Peptide runs, or again combination runs. I have a fair bot of niche knowledge here, while not because I was training and competing but rather because I was training and in combat at the time, so similar, but with widely different end game scenarios.

If I was you I would focus on over all conditioning, and bumping the strength/weight ration not increasing your weight beyond a certain limit, but squeezing the power into the package as it stands. By this I would be looking into compounds like Anavar, Methylstenbolone and the like to get you more strength but with very mild weight gain. Compounds like that will allow you to train with heavier weights,adding power to punches, kicks ect ect with a minimal gain in your weight, it will increase your speed as well if you practice your striking under tension with heavier weights, this will carry over to speed as your body copes with the weight, when its gone the speed increases. You have traditional compounds like Testosterone, which should be run, as a base to preserve normal function, and aid in recovery, muscle building strength and helping to keep the lethargy away. You have the peptides as well, ghrp type, HGH, GH fragments and the like all to help increase healing, add to the ability to build mass, and accelerate healing time, collagen synthesis ( as do compounds like Deca.) The newer compounds the SARMs are like mid way points, helping with mass growth, healing, and endurance ( GW50516 excels at this and is favored by cyclists)

This all being said mate, what are your goals give us a nice hard goal, do you want to put on some weight? Raw power Endurance? What are your skill sets? Ie. are you a boxer, Muy Thai ect ect Liek are you training to step in the ring in a given time frame, do you want to heal a series of injuries?

Give us a look at your training lay out a weeks worth of your training, and 48hrs of your Diet, on and off of your prep for a fight.

like I know you said, that you want strength, in your body and shoulder, but in what manner man pure bomb dropping monster strength I ave gone from Middle to heavy weight strength or, I am a middle weight that dumps like a heavy weight? Don't be offended this is your first cycle? What level of dedication to cycling do you have? Do you want to avoid a basic Test only cycle and go instead for like a peptide cycle?

So yeah I gave you a vague rambling answer ( bit of a fever here man 104 fixing for oral surgery tomorrow, and I am board as fuck, working on a sticky fro this site, but if you answer the questions I fired back and gave me some serious detail into what you are really trying to do with the PEDs I will use my ample time sitting here relaxing to brain storm some answers for PEDs and combat sports I am a huge fight fan bro)
 
Hey Neo, thanks for taking the time! It's great that you replied already, it sounds like you have the perfect experience! I think the best way will be for me to address each point in a quote of it's own.

It depends on your comfort level with using PEDs. I mean you can go from something as simple as a basic SARM or Peptide run, to a basic AAS run or a combination. You could be talking about laying in a year long course of cycles that increase as the year goes on, with cycling between 12-16 week AAS courses, with 6-12 week long SARM/Peptide runs, or again combination runs. I have a fair bot of niche knowledge here, while not because I was training and competing but rather because I was training and in combat at the time, so similar, but with widely different end game scenarios.

To be fair I'm still quite ignorant to the difference between a Peptide run and AAS. I also hadn't thought about multiple cycles for certain, my plan was to do something for a few months (however long is recommended), then judge my results afterwards. I don't see why I couldn't do more, but the plan for now is one course.

If I was you I would focus on over all conditioning, and bumping the strength/weight ration not increasing your weight beyond a certain limit, but squeezing the power into the package as it stands. By this I would be looking into compounds like Anavar, Methylstenbolone and the like to get you more strength but with very mild weight gain. Compounds like that will allow you to train with heavier weights,adding power to punches, kicks ect ect with a minimal gain in your weight, it will increase your speed as well if you practice your striking under tension with heavier weights, this will carry over to speed as your body copes with the weight, when its gone the speed increases. You have traditional compounds like Testosterone, which should be run, as a base to preserve normal function, and aid in recovery, muscle building strength and helping to keep the lethargy away. You have the peptides as well, ghrp type, HGH, GH fragments and the like all to help increase healing, add to the ability to build mass, and accelerate healing time, collagen synthesis ( as do compounds like Deca.) The newer compounds the SARMs are like mid way points, helping with mass growth, healing, and endurance ( GW50516 excels at this and is favored by cyclists)

Absolutely, the strength to weight ratio is of utmost importance really. I've heard Anavar recommended once, but Methylstenbolone is a new one! The effect is pretty much what I'm going for though! All courses should have testosterone, right? So for example, I would inject a form of testosterone and take Anavar tablets? Do I then take something on top of that to keep my hormones at healthy levels when I come off the course?

This all being said mate, what are your goals give us a nice hard goal, do you want to put on some weight? Raw power Endurance? What are your skill sets? Ie. are you a boxer, Muy Thai ect ect Liek are you training to step in the ring in a given time frame, do you want to heal a series of injuries?

Main goal = Heal my shoulder, it's had several dislocations. I've been through physio, don't need surgery. Apparently my healing is pretty good already, just not my luck! I've got other minor injuries (who doesn't?), so I guess overall joint health / strength is my target.

After that my secondary goals are to get max endurance, to improve both muscular and anaerobic performance. Power is absolutely welcome and I expect it! I'm from a striking background, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Boxing. But I also train my groundwork too. I'm in no rush to be fight ready, health comes first. I've got plenty of experience fighting already, when I'm feeling ready I'll get back into it again.

Give us a look at your training lay out a weeks worth of your training, and 48hrs of your Diet, on and off of your prep for a fight.

Right now I'm just doing a basic routine, after I hurt my shoulder last year I've been taking it easy.

1. Back, Biceps
2. Rest Day
3. Chest, Shoulders, Tricep
4. Legs, Abs
5. Rest Day

When I'm strength training I usually jog a mile to the gym and then some form of cardio with hard intervals. Recently I've been doing 4x4 minute rounds on the treadmill, faster each 30 seconds, 1 min rest between. Each week I'll make my cardio a touch harder and my weights a bit heavier.

Breakfast usually a big fruit smoothy, 4-5 bananas + 2 mango is a good one right now. Or I might get a bowl of oats with honey.
Later usually some home made soup, lots of fresh vegetable soups with bread or noodles.
Usually snacking on fruit before training, whatever is good in season.
Then a bigger meal like a big pasta dish. Something like rice and veg with fish or chicken a few times a week too.
After that it depends, if I'm training for a fight, It'll stay clean, maybe a smaller smoothy but with more greens like spinach etc in there. If I'm not fighting, it could be anything from toast, to a fruit salad, to a pizza, depending on hunger!

If I'm training for a fight my training would be more like

1. Morning - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps /// Evening - Techniques + cardio
2. Morning - Cardio - Pad work /// Evening - Techniques, harder training, pad work, sparring / sparring drills
3. Morning - Back, Biceps /// Evening - Technical work
4. Morning - Cardio - Pad work /// Evening - Techniques, harder training, pad work, sparring / sparring drills
5. Morning - Legs, Abs
6. Morning to Afternoon - Sparring
7. Morning - Cardio

like I know you said, that you want strength, in your body and shoulder, but in what manner man pure bomb dropping monster strength I ave gone from Middle to heavy weight strength or, I am a middle weight that dumps like a heavy weight? Don't be offended this is your first cycle? What level of dedication to cycling do you have? Do you want to avoid a basic Test only cycle and go instead for like a peptide cycle?

My greatest concern is keeping the shoulder joint itself as strong as possible. With correct technique, bone alignment, and a really secure joint you can't go wrong. I'm not looking to the steroids to increase striking power, but it will be a happy side effect. My dedication is full on, I'm just not sure about the pros and cons of each type of cycle. Once I start, I wont be wasting my time or stopping half way.

So yeah I gave you a vague rambling answer ( bit of a fever here man 104 fixing for oral surgery tomorrow, and I am board as fuck, working on a sticky fro this site, but if you answer the questions I fired back and gave me some serious detail into what you are really trying to do with the PEDs I will use my ample time sitting here relaxing to brain storm some answers for PEDs and combat sports I am a huge fight fan bro)

Once again, thanks!
 
Ok man give me a day or two to work some thing out I am recovering from a surgery today and am half goofey so Its going to take a few for me to really work up some ideas and a god answer for you.
 
Ok man give me a day or two to work some thing out I am recovering from a surgery today and am half goofey so Its going to take a few for me to really work up some ideas and a god answer for you.

No problem mate, hope the surgery went as well as it could for you!
 
Bollocks it did not go well, Thursday will be the second round, there was an issue with a cist that was a piece of shrapnel thats been in there for a good 6 years lol it is a piece of ceramic so they just thought it was a piece of dental implant but the colour was not right ( words from the surgery tech) Probably why the infection was soo bad its been locked in the capped tooth until I broke the primary cist open when the filling cracked. I am lucky apparently it could have went septic at any time. Thank you for the patience I am writing some shit out now on paper so I can organize my thoughts for a coherent answer when I type it out all medicated lol.
 
Maannnn that bites! It sucks hard it got missed for so long, I can only imagine what that's like!

It's cool you're still taking the time to help me out, thanks man!
 
No worries between naps lol and vomiting it helps keep the mind off of shit lol.
 
If contemplating AAS for boxing or contact sports... I used short chain testosterones: propionate, test-suspension, anavar, t-bol leading up to fights if tested.. In the off season Test-E.. Winstrol was popular in the old days as its great for strength and aggression and out of the system quick if tested.. But winstrol has a bad reputation for reducing the integrity of connective tissue, its liver toxic and detrimental to lipid profile.. One thing about anavar it could make you cramp up..
 
No worries between naps lol and vomiting it helps keep the mind off of shit lol.

lol that sounds like quite a ride :p

If contemplating AAS for boxing or contact sports... I used short chain testosterones: propionate, test-suspension, anavar, t-bol leading up to fights if tested.. In the off season Test-E.. Winstrol was popular in the old days as its great for strength and aggression and out of the system quick if tested.. But winstrol has a bad reputation for reducing the integrity of connective tissue, its liver toxic and detrimental to lipid profile.. One thing about anavar it could make you cramp up..

Ahh ok, that's Winstrol out for me then!

I was originally thinking something like sustanon250 with anavar, I wouldn't know which aromatase inhibitor to use, or what doses to take!

I just did some more reading on test-suspension, that sounds cool. I'm just headed out to train now so I'll do some more reading about everything you mentioned when I'm back.

Why did you choose short chain testosterones when leading up to a fight? And how long would you need for your system to show clean?
 
Ok so what GF said is proper shorter acting gear during the season.

Injectables I will break down via compound

Testosterone
Prop- As a great base, if using a low test high*** set up. It also works as an alaroudn builder of tissue, and helps increase th erate at which you recover from training. Be warry of Test, especially fast acting as it can add weight to you fast if your in a caloric surplus.
Ace- a great work horse fast, and can help add strength when you need it, cuts the injection down to daily, but again becarful if your lookign tp stay in a weigth class
Suspension - Awesome fro the strength and raw tissue growth in a break neck pace though it will be watery. Great fro Agression and strength the day of

Nandrolone
I would stay away from these during the season, and then stick to short esters in the off season as these especially Deca an be tested and found fro a really long time. If you are goign to use a nadrolone use
NPP - it is a faster acting compound but will give you a good bit of size strength, and help the joints out but not my first choice.

Boldenone
This is a great compound for fighters, really nice lean tissue gains you can control with diet. So it is easy to go up or down in weight if your sticking a great diet you can gain in the strength and endurance again on season Cyp or Ace ( these are painfull injections how ever) off season go fro plain old EQ
Dihydroboldenone: a variant of Bold, this is great fro nutrient repartitioning ( not great for it but good at it) It will put size and strength on you again diet dependent. Will be letting you train heavier but if you manipulate your calories you can go up or down in size but the weight on the bars will only go up and you can keep it if your training is spot on after the cycle. This is an over looked compound fro fighters, as it can mean as a middle weight you will be throwing punches that hit like a heavy weight, at the speed of a welterweight.

Masteron
Again short ester on season ( prop) vs E off season, great for adding to a cycle to control sides and harden you up. The thing here fro fighters is clean lean mass thats not much, ( diet dependent) and the fact that it can let less testosterone do more.

Primo
Clean gains, of easily maintainable weight, very little sides.

Tren
Om theory, great size, strength, aggression but- bad news for endurance so not a good choice for a fighter ( my opinion) as often the need to be aggressive at a high level fro a long period means the difference between say a Foreman vs a Frazier, now George could punch through a wall, but Joe could do it all day.

Orals
I will be breaking these down into a few categories 1- strength 2- size 3- aggression a few orals didn't make it, namely oral Prim/ MHN / a well a lot of other designers because well frankly I ahvent foudn much on them fro fighters.

1- Strength
Anavar- a classic strength oral, one used a lot by lifters and fighters pricey, but plays well with others
Methylstenbolone - a newer designer, much like var it will give you great strength gains, but better tissue gains then var, the tissue is clean and lean, and can be manipulated to almost none by diet, but it will give you a great strength increase, less expensive the var, and I prefer it as you can use less to get the same effect.
Epistane - not generally though of as a strength hormone but the gains are there, though this will put on more size then the other two
T-bol - not wildly great fro strength but a solid strength, low tissue gains
M1-T - a nice solid gain is size, aggression is there but not off the chart ( for me any way) and I saw a nice strength gain from this and less mas , though the situation was reversed fro a training partner.

2 - Size
Oxymethelone- a size beast, alot of it ans fast
D-bol- a classic size oral, not a lot but more size then strength ( though it will give you a good strength increase dude to intracellular water)
Methylchlostebol - mild middle of the road size oral nothing crazy but the gains are nice quality gains
Superdrol- great size great strength but, unless your trying to go up a weight class or are really good at training at a deficit and manipulating their body weight

3-Agression
Halo - great size strength and aggression but toxic. Worth it if you can take it and maul a man half to death and your not getting tested.
Cheque Drops- stupid good for strength and aggression you will def turn your ass into the hulk in the ring but again toxic


Peptides fro fighting

TB-500- great fro healing, a solid tool in the box to repair joint issues
GHRP 6 or 2 Great fro helping you grow, and heal. And help with appetite ( ghrp-6) when trying to go up a weight class.
IGF-1 regular or LR3 variant - great fro increased healing, size and adding to a muscle group that is lacking or damaged.

SARMs
Ostirine - great fro lean muscle and helping you recover
GW50516- here is a great compound for fighters, a minor up tick in lean mass , and bone density ( really important for kick boxers, muy thai, ect etc ) but where it shines in the endurance setting. If you can train harder longer, more frequently you can use some of these compounds and control the size the give you, and exploit their strength gains. Train like Bruce with weight gloves not only adds muscle and density, as well as power but it increases speed! and if you can train that hard for that long you can train fro speed/power/strength and


Well I help that helps if you want any more info, like putting it all together lemme know.
 
Top dollar Neo, that's pretty much exactly what I needed to be reading. I just didn't know what to ask for haha! I'll go read about each of those individually now.

My next question for sure is, when I decide what I want to use, how do I decide which goes well with which? I understand that I need something to counteract the side effects, like too much estrogen and so on, how would I decide which to go for? I know that orals alone is a bad idea, so it's a course of injectables, alongside orals, finished off with some post cycle recovery? I've read a little about aromatase inhibitors so far too, but I'm still pretty ignorant.

Just to add a few details, I really don't mind adding weight, I'm not bothered about going up in weight. For years I've taken all my fights at last minute notice and above my weight, I'm certain a few of those lads were on gear too. It would be interesting to actually be their weight!

Thoughts on some injectables;
The different types of testosterone, my friend also recommended prop and sustanon to me in the past. Would you not recommend sustanon (I don't see it up there), when I was reading about the health benefits people seem to get too it piqued my interest for sure.

The nandrolone sounds cool, I would consider myself in off season right now, so something that stays in my system for longer isn't a huge negative, unless there are other negative side effects etc

Boldenone sounds good, from your description it's the kind of benefits I'd like.

Masteron's good too, anything that does more for less is good in my books.

Thoughts on the orals;
Anavar, It's one I've had recommended by another close friend who is also a lifetime martial artist. I don't mind pricey if it's quality though, it's an investment to me.
Methylstenbolone, cheaper and better you say? Fuck anavar!

The size ones sound good, probably a better choice for me on a second cycle when I'm more experience with the changes I'll see.

The aggression ones I can leave, I don't have a problem with mindset, I can turn it on and off well enough that I don't want to risk extra toxicity for it. I'll still read about them though, it can't hurt to learn more.

The peptides sounds very good, especially for healing my shoulder. I heard that sustanon 250 can also increase naturage IGF-1?

GW50516 sounds like a computer part or something from the future, the bone density sounds very inviting to me. I have excellent conditioning through long term training but it can always be better.
 
Hi,

I think the others have said most that could be said.. so..

Dihydroboldenone was already mentioned, it also goes by the name 1-test cyp in case that's easier for you to find.
Methyltren hasn't been mentioned and you most likely shouldn't be using it, but it has a lot of tren effects while being better for your endurance. It's also very toxic, especially the oral version.
Dimethylnandrolone is also one of those really strong ones that you should probably avoid.

There's also a new sarm that's supposed to be good - lgd-4033, so it may be worth reading about.

Oh, and legit anavar if you can get it is very nice.
 
lol that sounds like quite a ride :p



Ahh ok, that's Winstrol out for me then!

I was originally thinking something like sustanon250 with anavar, I wouldn't know which aromatase inhibitor to use, or what doses to take!

I just did some more reading on test-suspension, that sounds cool. I'm just headed out to train now so I'll do some more reading about everything you mentioned when I'm back.

Why did you choose short chain testosterones when leading up to a fight? And how long would you need for your system to show clean?

Sustanon isn't the best option as the ester decanoate will take longer to clear your system (if tested)..
Only use an AI (aromatase inhibitor) if needed, don't automatically jump on an AI, knocking out too much E2 (estrogen) can effect you negatively...

Short chain ester (propionate) is out of your system in about a week.... decanoate might take a month...!! With orals like anavar they could be out of your system in a matter of hours, certainly within a day..... Cheque drops... :) Awesome compound for immediate strength & aggression..!!
 
LGD is not bad I prefer the mix of osta and gw, they are like ppb&j they just work.

DMN- I haven't been able to dig much up about the side of training for size in a BBing show as opposed to say a boxers prgm.

Samurai Blk I will lay a few cycles out for you, 2 that will put weight on 2 that will keep u where you sit but add some power. I will lay out like a year long prgm, a basic 12 week prgm and like an intermediate 24 week. so you will get a few pictures in your mind as to what you can do. This kid of stuff is fun its like a hypothetical doping prgm lol Genetic Freak if your still perusing this post how about you do a few hypothetical prgms, would be interesting to see what ppl come up with. This could be a very fun though exercise.
 
ldg does seem really good, still probably a good idea to be a bit cautious with it being new and all...

dmn is hard to find info on, most what I found is that it's strong, bad for your liver, hard to get, and that some dude got so strong from a few days on it he tore his lat doing db rows, still, better to tell him about it than to pretend it doesn't exist
 
>Cheque drops... Awesome compound for immediate strength & aggression..!!
bit off topic but how do they compare for immediate strength to test no ester, tren no ester, halotestin, methyltren, dmn, ....
 
Hi,

I think the others have said most that could be said.. so..

Dihydroboldenone was already mentioned, it also goes by the name 1-test cyp in case that's easier for you to find.
Methyltren hasn't been mentioned and you most likely shouldn't be using it, but it has a lot of tren effects while being better for your endurance. It's also very toxic, especially the oral version.
Dimethylnandrolone is also one of those really strong ones that you should probably avoid.

There's also a new sarm that's supposed to be good - lgd-4033, so it may be worth reading about.

Oh, and legit anavar if you can get it is very nice.

That's cool man, I did find 1-test / Cyp, it's one my friend had mentioned too, had no idea about the spelling though!

Sustanon isn't the best option as the ester decanoate will take longer to clear your system (if tested)..
Only use an AI (aromatase inhibitor) if needed, don't automatically jump on an AI, knocking out too much E2 (estrogen) can effect you negatively...

Short chain ester (propionate) is out of your system in about a week.... decanoate might take a month...!! With orals like anavar they could be out of your system in a matter of hours, certainly within a day..... Cheque drops... :) Awesome compound for immediate strength & aggression..!!

Ahh wow, I didn't think you could have it out of your system so quickly, makes me wonder why fighters still end up pissing hot the day before a fight! Testing wont be a problem for my first course, I wont be fighting until the end of this year at the earliest.

Each day I'm getting mind fucked from all I'm learning, everything I knew was a lie haha!

That's good to know I don't automatically have to jump onto an AI too.

LGD is not bad I prefer the mix of osta and gw, they are like ppb&j they just work.

DMN- I haven't been able to dig much up about the side of training for size in a BBing show as opposed to say a boxers prgm.

Samurai Blk I will lay a few cycles out for you, 2 that will put weight on 2 that will keep u where you sit but add some power. I will lay out like a year long prgm, a basic 12 week prgm and like an intermediate 24 week. so you will get a few pictures in your mind as to what you can do. This kid of stuff is fun its like a hypothetical doping prgm lol Genetic Freak if your still perusing this post how about you do a few hypothetical prgms, would be interesting to see what ppl come up with. This could be a very fun though exercise.

That's ace mate. I'll look forwards to it as I keep cramming this new knowledge into my head!

ldg does seem really good, still probably a good idea to be a bit cautious with it being new and all...

dmn is hard to find info on, most what I found is that it's strong, bad for your liver, hard to get, and that some dude got so strong from a few days on it he tore his lat doing db rows, still, better to tell him about it than to pretend it doesn't exist

Yeah man, the more I can learn, the better. That's pretty insane though! I have to read about it now! :)
 
My input - do not use anything that will boost strenght too much. Orals like m-stem or superdrol I would avoid, simply because your strength will explode and you will tearbyour shoulder again.

Deca to heal the shoulder... Preferably npp as it's shorter ester and you will be able to pass tests more easily
 
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