Advice/Help - "ectopic beats"/irregular heart issues after taking DLPA - 84 hours +

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Advice/Help - "ectopic beats"/irregular heart issues after taking DLPA - 84 hours +

Dear mods, this is double post with pharmacology/neuroscience, but I have had no replies. Perhaps you can re-locate me to the best sub and delete as appropriate?


TLDR:

• Have irregular heart beat off the back of moderate doses of DLPA (2 x 2 nights of 700mg) and it still persists after 84 hours after cessation. How long can I expect DLPA effects to last?
  
• Looking for info on half life, effects duration, and mechanisms of action (why the hell has it affected my heart like this, and what can I do to reverse it?)
  

Hi guys, there's a complicated back story to all this, but here's the short version:

I took around 700mg + of DLPA in powder form last Friday night and noticed these irregular pulsating feelings in my chest, like every few minutes I would get a large irregular heartbeat. I didn't realise at the time it was DLPA, as I had also taken caffeine, nicotine, cacao (but all in moderate amounts). I'm kind of sober in general at the moment, and seem to be very sensitive to all substances now.

Then on Saturday night (I didn't realise the first night was down to the DLPA) I took roughly 700mg again on an empty stomach and this time felt the onset and the irregular beats almost immediately as the drugs/supplement hit, coupled with major anxiety. I went quite nuts that night, as I went into deep health anxiety and all sorts of other horrible paranoias I wouldn't indulge in so much normally.

Now it's Tuesday (Weds for edits) night, and I'm still getting this irregular pulsating heart beat every few minutes. It's random, so sometimes it doesn't happen for a while, sometimes it's 1 or 2 mins apart. I have exercised, and it's been ok. Resting heart rate is 78ish when sitting in middle of day, though it was in the low 60s when I measured on waking about 2 weeks ago. EDIT - it's seems to be that when waking there is no irregular heart beat sensation and it may take some time to manifest once up and moving. I'm not sure yet though..

How long can I expect the DLPA effects to last? I read somewhere that the pain reduction effects can last upto 4 weeks in some people. I also read one guys horror story of giving himself severe anxiety that was still there after a few weeks (although diminished). I don't need any extra anxiety in my life these days. I'm not freaking out, but the irregular heart beat is definitely a trigger! Looking for info on half life, effects duration, and mechanisms of action (why the hell has it affected my heart like this, and what can I do to reverse it?)


EDIT - I did also go for my first swim in months on the Friday before the first dose on the Friday night, and probably really pushed my heart with sprints etc. I'm pretty out of shape, I can't run 1.x miles without taking 4 or more breaks at the moment. So the exercise is probably heavy on one side of the heart at the moment?


Thanks for reading, I hope I can get the bottom of what is actually going on. There are few sources discussing stuff close to these symptoms from what I've searched through, but mostly stuff about the benefits of DLPA and not an in depth discussion on it's mechanism of action or side effects such as this. Plus I can't be doing the health paranoia thing right now and obsessively reading about the negative effects on random webpages as it makes the anxiety much worse.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

See a doctor or medical professional. I moved this to basic drug discussion for you.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

See a doctor or medical professional. I moved this to basic drug discussion for you.

on the case thanks, it's 2 weeks wait for me unless I go A&E. It seems to be a mild effect and don't want trying not to indulge in panic as it makes it worse.

Info on half life from anyone would be great. It seems the D form might stay in the system for a really long time, but I can't find anything conclusive.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

on the case thanks, it's 2 weeks wait for me unless I go A&E. It seems to be a mild effect and don't want trying not to indulge in panic as it makes it worse.

Info on half life from anyone would be great. It seems the D form might stay in the system for a really long time, but I can't find anything conclusive.

It's your heart. Go to A&E. You will not get into legal trouble, and you should get checked out ASAP.

 

[T. Calderone]

I don't know much about DLPA so I did some searching. Apparently, there are warnings for people who have blood pressure issues to only use it after a meal. Also, it's said that the effects could linger for three to four weeks. I wouldn't take any more if you are having an irregular heart rate and don't smoke either. You may be getting yourself worked up needlessly because you sound very anxious. For now, practice some deep breathing. If your symptoms don't improve then go to A & E. What are your medical conditions? Also, are you taking any other supplements or medications?

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

basically have a weaker version of what this guy had:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/247572/warning_lphenylalanine_induced_panic_attacks/

the irregular beat is scary but it's not worsening, it's the panic and anxiety that's worse and makes it worse. The irregular beat is not all the time, have noticed that it might come on stronger after eating meat/protein. So I'm laying off those for a while as they contain phenylalaline. Will update later today, but the way I see it is going to the A&E might do me more harm than good psychologically.

no smoking, not on any other supps apart from occasional CBD or kava, tried some ashwaganda but it doesn't work in this state. Healthy diet, exercise, sleep, all in good order. Medical conditions anxiety/panic, currently recovering from an accidental overdose about 2 months ago - this could factor into my sensitivity to substances. See my "Kratom detox" thread for more infos (though it's pretty long winded!), just scroll up from last posts I guess.

"You may be getting yourself worked up needlessly because you sound very anxious." 100% - I am anxious on a good day, but this makes it way worse! trying not to over indulge the health anxiety and just do healthy things like walking, meditation, listening to podcasts etc

The main question is, how long could I expect the DLPA to linger. But I guess I will have to brace myself for a few weeks, and keep my finger on the dial should I need extra medical help if things get worse.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

though he had proper palpitations, I have occasional BIG beat

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

so... had no real breakfast (just a piece of fruit) and no noticeable big beats until after eating. Tried sticking with only carbs and sugar, but inevitable dairy crept in and other potential sources of phenylalaline, but no meat or nuts or beans. Have had maybe a handful of the big beats since eating. I suppose the continuation of this issue is due to waxing and waning of phenylalaline levels each day while I'm gradually, hopefully, expelling the overdose (for me.. others have used similar levels to good effect, but my biochemistry seems to be totally against this substance!) I'm still worried, but don't have the energy to completely fast to test my theory properly. Might try a fruit/veg day alone tmrw and see if that stops the beats. Any more infos anyone might have would still be appreciated.

 

[T. Calderone]

I read in this article that DLPA's effects can linger up to 3 to 4 weeks: https://www.healthy.co.nz/ailment/2038-nutritional-pain-control-dlpa.html
This looks like something I may want to try as I have chronic pain but also have high blood pressure. So maybe not.

That's unfortunate you're still having irregular heat beats. It's possible that you could also be having effects from coming off kratom. Have you taken that or any opiates lately? I would eat more and make sure you're drinking plenty of water. Hope you're feeling better!

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

I read in this article that DLPA's effects can linger up to 3 to 4 weeks: https://www.healthy.co.nz/ailment/2038-nutritional-pain-control-dlpa.html
This looks like something I may want to try as I have chronic pain but also have high blood pressure. So maybe not.

That's unfortunate you're still having irregular heat beats. It's possible that you could also be having effects from coming off kratom. Have you taken that or any opiates lately? I would eat more and make sure you're drinking plenty of water. Hope you're feeling better!

thanks man, things seem to be getting better today. Last night after avoiding heavy proteins all day, and exercising/busy day, I felt great for a little while! I think that is possibly the feeling that is reported with the benefits of DLPA - I am transitioning from the "overdose state" to the "right dose" state perhaps. There is information about the effects DLPA on sustaining endorphins or increasing dopamine, so it would make sense that exercise helps to diminish the anxiety, and despite it feeling counter intuitive with these strange sensations, it's really helped my head! I did also use some CBD oil, so that makes sense too re dopamine perhaps.

I think the kratom is long gone, but who knows for sure. I have stayed away from most substances, just a little bit of CBD, ashwaganda, and occasional kava use (2 times per week per substance mostly). I did use a tiny bit of cannabis a few times but that was a while ago now.

I did some experimenting with magnesium yesterday too, though it wasn't the first day I tried it. I rubbed in maybe 200-300mg of magnesium oil and that may have helped add to the improved mood package. In retrospect the "big beat" sensation has been accompanied by other twitches all around my chest, and my body. There are some warnings about DLPA causing nerve damage in high doses. I think my CNS has just been twitching and freaking out, it's hard to know exactly of course, but there is nothing familiar about these feelings except I now remember I have felt similar in the past when I have used DLPA a couple times since the OD. There is slim chance that the "big beat" feeling in my heart is a muscle or nerve or something in my chest, but it's very central and pretty much where I normally feel my heart beat. It may also be related to anxiety and panic, considering that DLPA increases anxiety for some.

That said, I have read various anecdotes of these sensations in people who have just consumed phenylalaline in their diet, or people who get these irregular heart beats even without knowing what the external factors are. Some have worn mini ECG all day and get the OK from Dr, some have worn the ECG and had zero irregular beats despite feeling the sensation.

Our bodies are weird and when we put all this stuff into them, the science becomes so inexact it really bothers me that Drs feel like they are shooting in the dark. I never really knew that angle of medicine before, but my ER trip taught me that I need to take responsibility first, as the Drs won't know what the fuck to do if I make it too complicated! This DLPA trip has really added the extra icing on the cake of caution (lol).

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Also, from that link:

"Pain relief becomes increasingly effective over time, without people developing tolerance.
There are no significant adverse side effects, mental or physical.
DLPA has very low toxicity.
DLPA can generally be combined with other medication or therapy to increase benefits, without adverse interactions."

These quotes are worrying to say the least. Perhaps the increased pain relief is because the DLPA is building up more and more over time. If it takes 3-4 weeks to wear off, of course it increases if you take it daily and not monthly!

There are adverse effects reported in many places. Anxiety, palpitations, and in some cases doses over 5g - death... Also nerve damage has been reported. "The toxicity is in the dose". I mean, magnesium is safe right? Try eating 100g of magnesium and then report there are no adverse effects...

Low toxicity at what dose? What does that even mean? (I don't know about medical definitions of toxicity btw)

Saying that DLPA can be combined with other meds without interactions is a warning sign. They list no examples.


I am obviously biased here a I have had negative experiences, but I think it's a good example of misinformation that could lead to serious issues for someone. That reddit link I posted above is a good example. I mean, that guy could have killed himself with that level of psychological distress if he was another person.

Nothing personal, I'm having a go at the source.

Thanks

 

[d1nach]

"Resting heart rate is 78ish when sitting in middle of day, though it was in the low 60s when I measured on waking about 2 weeks ago. "

Ummm a resting heart rate for a adult is 78. That is normal.

I think you have a severe issue with anxiety and panic attacks.

Phenylalanine is not likely to be active at all because your body can control how much it decarboxylates it.

Similar to monosodium glutamate Your body doesnt just sudden go into seizures from excess excititory signaling

Phenylalanine is related to methamphetine

But first

Phenylalanine needs to be decarboxylated to phenylethylamine

Then it needs a methyl group on the amine

To form amphetamine

On top of all this i believe phenylalanine has hydroxy groups on the benzene ring that further prevent it from entering the brain effectively

If you take maoi inhibits it is possible however a hr of 78 is not very high for someone in a sympathetic crisis

Tachycardia is a hr more then 100 at rest

Then there are grades of tachycardia i think they
I think generally
Months
100 common during amphet and cocaine
Weeks
120 peak in some amphetamine and cocaine users
Days
140 atropine bathsalts very high dangerous amphetamine and cocaine
Hours
160 severe icu
Minutes
180 shock you to try and get ur heart in rthymn
Seconds
200

With each increase the less and less time u can stay at it

Im not a doctor though have you been to a doctor for a ekg?

Maybe you might benefit from talk therapy if you have bad anxiety i had horrible anxiety and it was terriable.

 

[LaGaFàNi]

Is it the N-Acetyl version? The thing is that all people tend to metabolise and thus react differently to phenylalanine. If you look it up on wikipedia, you'll find an image showing you all the possible metabolites it can become. Now you need to take in account that the more additions your liver/brain is going to add to phenylalanine, the more active and NE centered it will become. At first it can become tyrosine, then dopa, which are both "quite easy" on the heart compared to what other PEA metabolites can do. Remember that 700mg is a lot for your brain (where most of the PEA metabolites will be formed) to metabolise at the same time, and obviously, only a small part thus will become dopa or tyrosine, the enzymes involved needing more time to replenish. Now other enzymes will, for example, put a hydroxy group at the beta position, or methylate the N-H bond. The metabolites, like norepinephrine, adrenaline, synephrine etc, have much more cardiac side effects than plain dopa, and they have the ability to cause quite a bit of anxiety if you're prone to stress (don't ask me why, but some people can tolerate bigger amounts of NE agonism without feeling "stressed"). If you want to keep taking DL-Phenylalanine, I counsel you to take vitamin B supplements (they play a major role in the dopamine metabolism and are known to be "calming"), and to titrate your doses to 50-100mg every two hours, which will give you a much better bio-availability (in terms of "normal" plasma levels) ressembling what you'd get out of the digestion of phenylalanine, tyrosine or dopa rich foods like bananas.

Hope this helps, stay safe.

Edit: Just read d1nach's post, had to react:
your body is that of a superhero if it manages to synth amp. out of phenylalanine. Check your sources. And adding a methyl group to ALPHA-METHYL-Phenethylamine (no alpha methyl in phenylalanine, and phenethylamine being the decarboxylate metabolite of phenylalanine) would just make meth.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

@d1nach

Thanks, yeah I have very bad anxiety, but I assure you there are physical symptoms after the DLPA doses. I would hypothesise that my toxic dose is some order of magnitude smaller than the average person, but that anyone can experience these effects if they dose high enough.

My anxiety had been manageable until I touched the DLPA, I have been making massive progress with behavioural work, therapy, meditation and meta cognitive therapy (part of the behavioural work but I mention it alone as it's about learning to accept and control your worry about worry cycle as the source of all mental health issues. Works hand in hand with meditation very well). But I'm early days, I have all these tools I've been accumulating for some time, but not really done them all together like this or with this much resolve until now. The DLPA dose completely put me back to square one, despite all of the progress and tools at hand. To be fair though, I have managed this week fairly well considering a compromised brain chemistry knocking me around every time something difficult comes up.

The extreme anxiety, and physical nervous symptom responses are very scary, and the anxiety was not just psycho sematic - it was definitely induced by some level of toxicity of the DLPA dosage in my system. I have come to believe that people with compromised brain chemistry like mine, or others with anxiety disorders, are probably at higher risk of adverse effects from the DLPA. I honestly don't think anyone should be under any illusions about this substance, but I do understand that everyone is different and that it has been reported that the majority are fine. That doesn't discount my experience, nor the other crazy anxiety stories or reports of toxicity/death at higher doses. The physical effects still persist for me now, and are swinging depending on food, exercise and stress levels.

I have a feeling that you might not be factoring in the D form, which is not the same as the L form we usually consume and process in our bodies naturally.

The D form might as well be a drug IMO. Drugs are after all just chemicals that alter our brain chemistry, lab synthesised or not. The difference generally being it's not something our body has synthesised or used to dealing with, and when we introduce it it makes changes to our body and chemistry in different desirable or undesirable ways. Considering the D form is synthesised in a lab, is not familiar to the body and works in these different positive and negative ways I wouldn't imagine it to be any different from any other chemical/drug that changes your mood and your brain chemistry. Of course there is a deeper philosphical discussion about "chemicals" such as the minerals and vitamins we consume that literally keep us alive, but also change our mood in different ways too. But I hope my point is fairly clear! I'm calling Dlpa a drug!

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Is it the N-Acetyl version? The thing is that all people tend to metabolise and thus react differently to phenylalanine. If you look it up on wikipedia, you'll find an image showing you all the possible metabolites it can become. Now you need to take in account that the more additions your liver/brain is going to add to phenylalanine, the more active and NE centered it will become. At first it can become tyrosine, then dopa, which are both "quite easy" on the heart compared to what other PEA metabolites can do. Remember that 700mg is a lot for your brain (where most of the PEA metabolites will be formed) to metabolise at the same time, and obviously, only a small part thus will become dopa or tyrosine, the enzymes involved needing more time to replenish. Now other enzymes will, for example, put a hydroxy group at the beta position, or methylate the N-H bond. The metabolites, like norepinephrine, adrenaline etc, have much more cardiac side effects than plain dopa, and they have the ability to cause quite a bit of anxiety if you're prone to stress (don't ask me why, but some people can tolerate bigger amounts of NE agonism without feeling "stressed"). If you want to keep taking DL-Phenylalanine, I counsel you to take vitamin B supplements (they play a major role in the dopamine metabolism and are known to be "calming"), and to titrate your doses to 50-100mg every two hours, which will give you a much better bio-availability (in terms of "normal" plasma levels) ressembling what you'd get out of the digestion of phenylalanine, tyrosine or dopa rich foods like bananas.

Hope this helps, stay safe.

Thank you

not the N-Acetyl version.

This does really help quite a lot. My brain chemistry understanding is elementry, but I'm getting there and making some breakthroughs at the moment. In fact, this DLPA experience has led me to start to really make sense of what might be going on in my mind/body.

I'm pretty sure that I have overwhelming production of NE even on a good day, it's probably my biggest source of anxiety along with testosterone and inability to make oxytocin and gaba easily. I find social interaction very threatening as I can't build up that "trust" without excessive reassurance/touch. It takes quite profound positive experiences for me to get comfortable hormones etc running to the point where I can "be myself" and relax.

Have good results with Taurine, Inositol, Magnesium, B vits (which are very anxiety provoking for me in medium/high doses without magnesium + taurine). I feel it's time to try Glycine perhaps? and there was another one on this side of the equation... I need support to start self regulating my chemistry again effectively with a lot of practice and nutritional support, otherwise I walk around "raw" all day and on edge with a lot of shocks or spasms of anxiety at many small stimuli.

... or I end up trying to self treat by smashing a load of drugs that just masks the problem. It's fun to do, but it's clearly hurt me with my last round!

I wish I had just seen a fucking nutritionist 5 years ago when this anxiety started, I have a feeling they would have saved me a lot of trouble. But here in the UK I just did some searching, and for a full biochemical test and care package, it's like £2500... and you won't get that on insurance! Strange that medicine just ignores nutrition so much, it's actually insane IMO.

thanks again, I will try the B vits, it's been a couple days since I had some...


EDIT - scuse the sidetrack, I hope this helps a bit with others experiencing anxiety or weird reactions to DLPA or other related supplemental interactions...

 

[LaGaFàNi]

Please don't call it a drug. Like I said, some people have psychiatric conditions and react in non-understood ways to stimuli others do not even notice. For example Shulgin IV'd quite a dose of DL-Tyrosine to no effects, it already being a closer metabolite to dopamine or norepinephrine than phenylalanine, which I guess should make it more "potent", is just one out of many example that proves phenylalanine should be considered as a supplement for a healthier living and not as a drug.

Edit; Ayyy... I read taurine... Taurine is known to cause heart palpitations, arrythmias, can trigger anxiety and overall is not a thing a person prone to severe anxiety should be supplementing.
Inositol too is not necessary IMO, what do you take it for? What vitamins B are you taking? And do you respect the counseled dosage? Some vits B can be toxic when overdone, like B6.
If i were you I would just take a deep breath, take a shower, put my shoes on and go for a at least 30 mins walk to some park or something, it sounds like you've got some OCD going on, and I don't think glycine or other supplements for that matter will make a great difference in the way you feel. You need to let go for a bit and find a social activity, like voluntering or some club (chess, gaming, whatever gets you in contact with other people) and stay active in a positive way. Once you do that, then you can think about supplementing DLPA or glycine etc.
get some psychological backup, talk to your mom whatevs, and watch not to overdo anything, it'd be stupid to overreact under the influence of your anxiety and end up at the hospit or the psych-house.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

btw @Lagafani

any idea how DLPA toxicity results in nerve damage? a listed side effect, and something I assume I have been experiencing on the lighter end with the various nerve flashes and spasms and this big beat on the heart/chest.

I do get electric shock/spasms related to the anxiety, but the DLPA gave me new and different ones... sometimes shooting down to my left foot etc, but mostly across my chest.

I can assure any reader that this is not just an average "panic attack" for me. I know panic, and these are not my usual panic sensations and have happened even when at rest this last week (and in prior uses of DLPA, which I had never correlated until now)

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Please don't call it a drug. Like I said, some people have psychiatric conditions and react in non-understood ways to stimuli others do not even notice. For example Shulgin IV'd quite a dose of DL-Tyrosine to no effects, it already being a closer metabolite to dopamine or norepinephrine than phenylalanine, which I guess should make it more "potent", is just one out of many example that proves phenylalanine should be considered as a supplement for a healthier living and not as a drug.

Edit; Ayyy... I read taurine... Taurine is known to cause heart palpitations, arrythmias, can trigger anxiety and overall is not a thing a person prone to severe anxiety should be supplementing.
Inositol too is not necessary IMO, what do you take it for? What vitamins B are you taking? And do you respect the counseled dosage? Some vits B can be toxic when overdone, like B6.
If i were you I would just take a deep breath, take a shower, put my shoes on and go for a at least 30 mins walk to some park or something, it sounds like you've got some OCD going on, and I don't think glycine or other supplements for that matter will make a great difference in the way you feel. You need to let go for a bit and find a social activity, like voluntering or some club (chess, gaming, whatever gets you in contact with other people) and stay active in a positive way. Once you do that, then you can think about supplementing DLPA or glycine etc.
get some psychological backup, talk to your mom whatevs, and watch not to overdo anything, it'd be stupid to overreact under the influence of your anxiety and end up at the hospit or the psych-house.

yes but at what point does a supplement become a drug?

rhodiola is a supplement, ashwaganda is a supplement? Both might as well be drugs too IMO - drugs are just a cultural classification most of the time.

I understand what you are saying, but I feel that there is a lot of misconceptions about drugs/medications that are just invented categories that do no-one any good.

Like what is the difference between a pharmaceutical drug or any other drug, apart from cultural packaging? EDIT - take the difference between crystal meth, and adderall... I bet you over half the population think there is a major difference between these 2 drugs.


EDIT - I suppose I need to get my biochemistry down before I can really have this conversation and clarify my position... you have given me more food for though, thank you

 

[LaGaFàNi]

Nerve damage seems very unlikely IMO. Long-term abuse of drugs that can be neurotoxic can lead to desregulation and eventually loss of activity of some nerves, but their's no way DLPA would cause any lasting damage.
These feelings, "chills", "thrills" you talk about are felt when your sympathomimetic receptors (histamine, DA, SERT, NE, maybe even heat regulating ones like CB2 etc) are stimulated, like when having sex or even due to cold weather, and believe it or not, are usually sought after by people... It causes a release of neurotransmitters from the receptor's nerve endings when it perceives external (un)pleasurable stimuli, which should go to the brain so that it knows about whatever stimuli it is that causes the release. Now the interesting thing is that some drugs, like amphetamines, are releasers and agonists, in that they bind to for ex. DA and NE receptors, but also cause the release of dopamine and adrenaline. So when you receive an external stimuli (sex, cold), these receptors will release whatever they "have in stock", thus amphetamines in this case, and during the "travel" to your brain, drugs like amphetamine will trigger extra neurotransmitter release by reacting with other nerve endings "along the way" (in your chest, back, legs, shoulders, genital etc), because of their "releasing" properties. This once again will cause new dopamine release, etc, until the sent "neurotrans-package" arrives at destination, your brain, loaded with good feelings.

So you may want to sit back and relax yourself a bit, and actually enjoy these "shivers", as they are signs that pleasure hormones are being sent to your brain.

EDIT: I explained it the wrong way in that there are electrical signaling pathways that run trough nerves, signal that go from brain to fingers when typing for example, that takes 1/100*x0 secs, and receptors, not nerves, that stock, receive and exchange neurotransmitters. When they receive positive stimuli they release neurotranses into the bloodstream, not via nerves. (0.1-0.5secs for "effects" of release to be felt on a cerebral level) The part about amph causing an increased/escalating release is correct IMO.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

thanks @Lagafani - I would really like to ask you more, can I PM you or make another thread about this? I would like to understand a bit more about some of the regular panic or threat sensations I get that occurred before the DLPA. I feel like I am finally onto understanding these and my brain chemistry better... These, and the ones since the DLPA are both not "shivers" but more like spasms, shocks, burning sensations, battery acid etc. Not fun sensations by any means! I know the shivers from MDMA etc, I used to really like that feeling...

The ones that have occured since the DLPA are internal. In chest, abdomen, legs mostly. Like little shocks. The other pre existing anxiety sensations I generally call brain zaps, they seem to start in my head and flash over the sides and top of my head. In particularly surprising situations I will get shocks all the way to my finger tips. I assume my fight of flight system/amygdala are hard wired to threat now, even my phone going off gives me these zaps! I have however, started think that the head sensations are on the outside of my head, not the inside. These originally manifested after a coke/alcohol/MDMA/mephadrone/diazepam/caffeine combo one night out followed by a benzo WD. Not all at once, but it was a party night... Any thoughts? Shall I elaborate more or make a new thread or PM?



UPDATE: CBD interaction perhaps??

about this new panic/heart beats/heart rate issue. Today I used CBD only, having had a saturday and half a sunday without many (just a few) irregular heart beats. I was thinking the issue was going away, I was also thinking that it might just be muscle or internal twitches of sorts like asophegous or something. Today I doubt that.

After I used the CBD, I gave it an hour and then went for a run. Then I sat down for dinner and ate a turmeric capsule before food. I had a really large spike in heart rate, many larger heartbeats, restlessness, and actually some shivers in my head and an alleviation of some of the persistent fear and doom feelings I get with the anxiety. But the heart rate and restlessness did provoke other anxiety of course. I had no real stimuli to provoke panic or anxiety, I was just watching TV. If anything the run should have (and normally does) shake off any extra anxiety or excess energy lingering...

This CBD oil is pretty strong - 14% entourage. I only used 1 drop, but the turmeric probably potentiated it, then include the endorphins and dopamine release from the run and I guess that's the cause? I assume that the DLPA is still in the background somewhere too, as the results from the exercise were quite strong. I also ate very well today, including strong B vits superfoods and a bit of everything really.

So, my main point is that this is likely an interaction of sorts. I will lay of CBD for a couple weeks and see what happens. I have used it before for anxiety/paranoias/.. and as an anti psychotic of sorts with good effect. But perhaps I need to be aware of interactions and situations that might create certain chemistry to manifest the high heart rate? There are mixed reports of CBD increasing heart rate in some, though it is generally thought to help with high heart rate/blood pressure, some people get an opposite effect!

Again, maybe I need a new thread for this. The key point is perhaps the whole issue is an interaction issue and not just one substance.