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Adelaide PMA Death

Oshiepeaker-he will most definately be missed
William-He was 19 years old...
[This message has been edited by e`chic (edited 03 September 2001).]
 
4) Choascat - your comment stating "suicidal behaviour MUST be taken seriously..." I think is very stupid, you obvilously did not know Alan personally you may have spoken to him in regards to his pro-pma attitude but did you know him as a person?
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I am extremely sorry that my post sounds like that to you... I did not know him personally, and since everyone has said how wonderful he was, I have no reason not to believe them.
I will change the post so it does not give that impression, however, what I meant by it was taking extreme risks is often describes as "suicidal", for example extreme sports or driving at high speeds. And his behaviour was definitely high risk. I in no way meant that he was consciously trying to do this, and can understand why that may make people upset.
Please take this as a lesson learnt and DO NOT mess with PMA, test all your pills before taking them because PMA plays a part of a lot more than you are lead to believe.
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See, I don't know where this attitude comes from. Doesn't everyone know how serious the risks are already??? Seriously the only place I ever heard anyone say anything positive about pma, was ianhard's posts. Is this where you were getting your information from?
he is considered to be the most knowledgeable on drugs with many people refering to Alan before taking drugs.
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And yet, many other people saw the naivety of many of his views. I highly agree with all of johnboys post, it's right on the mark. He believed he knew the facts, and anyone who opposed him was wrong. This was dangerous for others as well as himself. I didn't know him, yet I could see it coming. Surely people who were closer to him did too (not that they could have changed anything).
he posted much of this misinformation on pillreports and although i was worried that people would take his advice, i was heartened that plenty of people stepped up to challenge his "facts".
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Yes, but unfortunately he said the same things on other messageboards, and there were only a few people who tried to highlight the dangers. I have been extremely concerned for the safety of inexperienced people who may have been led to believe the risks were lower because of viewing his posts on that board. It's sounds like he was very intelligent, but did lack a bit of common sense (perhaps because of his age).
I wonder how old the people who choose to do pma are? Perhaps they don't really recall the deaths around 96, and so it doesn't seem real to them?
I hope everyone has learned something from this. I know I have, even though I didn't know him.
 
Just out of curiosity, how old are you chaoscat? You seem to bring up the issue of age and inexperience quite alot. How old/many pills do you have to take, to be "experienced". It's very easy to make a mistake when dealing with drugs no matter how well you think you know what your doing. I think people just need to use more common sense and be more carefull about just how much and what they are taking. Drop halves if you have'nt had them before and know your limits! It appears that testing would not have made any difference in this case.
 
RIP IanHard
Can anyone tell me where I can find out more info on PMA? How can you test if the pill has PMA in it? Thanks in advance.
 
I didn't know Allan/Alan/Ian Hard, but I was in Canberra for Passion 2 when i heard and it cut me pretty deep even though i didn't know him. Just within this short time of knowing bluelight.ru and bluelighters I've learnt quite a lot and met many people, but this doesn't make me nor any other bl'er invincible.
Allan/Alan/Ian Hard, hope you're still bouncing hard in heaven man! Gather up all the ravers in heaven and organise the meet man.
Rest In Peace
-babu
 
Just out of curiosity, how old are you chaoscat? You seem to bring up the issue of age and inexperience quite alot. How old/many pills do you have to take, to be "experienced".
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None! I'm talking about "experience" in terms of just being around the scene long enough to see/hear about how often things like this actually happen. If a circle of friends have all only been in the scene for a couple of years, the info that would be shared between them is very limited, due to their limited experiences. This cannot be helped I guess, and is not a reflection of their intelligence. But if this is an area where risks are greater, then those interested in harm reduction will need to find ways of getting through to these people in this type of situation. Clearly the message of harm reduction has not been getting through to some sections of the adelaide scene.
Maturity is not about knowing it all, it's being aware that you do not know it all... many people seem to think that the more drugs you do, the more you know. This could not be further from the truth.
I am not trying to put myself above others, simply trying to understand why things like this happen when, as far as I know, the dangers of pma have been known in adelaide for about 9 years (and certainly well known for 6). I wonder about their ages because if they were in the scene in 95/96 the concept of overdosing on pma would probably be more "real" to them, as this is when the last wave of deaths occurred.
And since you asked NRG, I'm in my mid 20's.
Love to you all XXX
(at the risk of sounding like a hippy!)
 
RESPECT
my condolences go out to all ianhards relatives and friends.
didnt know ya but respected your opinions.
 
I see your point chaoscat. Take it easy
smile.gif
 
its sad that the reason I'm posting again is to express my sadness at the tragic event that took place this week. i always thought education would lead to safety, but i realise now that safety doesnt lead to immortality.
RIP Alan. My sympathies go out to all his family and friends.
Sean.
 
*bump*
...in the interests of harm minimilisation...
The situation that happened here is tragic. Hopefully by having it here, something good may actually come out of it.
 
one thing: Sean
Bluelighter posted 06 September 2001 08:49 PM
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its sad that the reason I'm posting again is to express my sadness at the tragic event that took place this week. i always thought education would lead to safety, but i realise now that safety doesnt lead to immortality.
RIP Alan. My sympathies go out to all his family and friends.
Sean.
umm, since when was taking any PMA considered safe? Im sorry but he diced with death and lost..
Thoughts and feelings do go out to family and friends who now have to put up with a loss that needed have happened.
 
Firstly, I do feel sorry for Ian and his family. However I hope his friends had been warning him constantly about the dangers of PMA.
However.... A few things need to be noted.
Ian did not take any advice from any bluelighters, he thought he was a very knowledgable person when all he would base his judgments on was the VERY limited experience he could have had in his 19 year existence.
Ultimately the blame comes back to Ian. Throughout the course of Australia's Dance scene history, people like him have been FUCKING it up. He now belongs in the category of Anna Wood and Happy Valley 2.
Young ravers of the past listened to their elders/peers who had been doing it longer, God knows I did.
Let this very unfortunate incident be a lesson to ever recreational drug user...
Practice Harm Minimisation.
------------------
..the artist formerly known as the_Oracle
 
Firstly, my heart goes out to 'IanHards' family and friends.
Secondly, I hear many people speaking of the evils of PMA.I have to completely disagree. Just because someone abuses a certain drug beyond the point which many people have indicated is life threatening does not mean the drug itself should be demonized. PMA may not be a pleasent substance, it may be dangerous. But so is Nutmeg, you can get PRETTY FUCKING HIGH of ten table spoons of ground nutmeg(please do not do that at home, it will most likely kill you, for more detailed information about nutmeg, check out www.erowid.org), still nutmeg is neither evil nor dangerous in our mainstream culture.
The dosage for PMA is approximately 40-70. Even at 60 there is a potent increase in heartrate and blood pressure.
At 200mg! WOW! Thats is beyond rational. Especially mixing it with MDMA at that point.
I cannot believe that we are demonising a substance just as the media does. PMA when used in lower doses may prove to have something to provide in terms of experience and/or scientific knowledge. But as it was mentioned above, if you play with fire you may get burned. But if you can utilise fire for your benefit, then its power can be beneficial.
 
I thought it would be appropriate to bring this topic back up as it has been a year today since
Alan (Ianhard) passed away...
Alan you are in my thoughts today,and missed dearly...Love always...
I hope everyone is staying away from PMA...
 
Holy shit... Is it really a year since this tragedy occurred? Rest in peace, Ian Hard.
A timely reminder coming into spring and the summer party season. Thanks Mishy.
BigTrancer.
 
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