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Adelaide PMA Death
- Thread starter anon-sa
- Start date
*chaoscat*
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 957
Not true ruski, it may be acceptable to do pma in certain circles, but I think the majority of ravers in adelaide do think it is a stupid practice and would not behave in such a stupid way. People hear about the ppl who seek out pma, and consider them fools.(and they ARE, this is proof). Please do not judge what the majority thinks simply from the ppl you know. I think this is one reason a lot of young ppl take these risks, they judge somethings acceptability by what others around them are doing. It's your life, take resposibility for it yourself...
One big thing is if you see your friends or family overdoing it, don't let it go... self-destructive behaviour MUST be taken seriously...
This is my post from pillreports:
Condolences to his friends and family.
He knowingly took pma for at least a year according to him. I had on many occasions had a go at him about his pro-pma attitude, but sadly, no matter how much you try to help people, they make their own choices.
Sadly it seems that many of the younger generation of pill-takers do not take warnings seriously.
Life is precious - more precious than a night of drugtaking fun... please everyone, appreciate what you have, and treat yourself with respect...
[This message has been edited by *chaoscat* (edited 30 August 2001).]
[This message has been edited by *chaoscat* (edited 03 September 2001).]
One big thing is if you see your friends or family overdoing it, don't let it go... self-destructive behaviour MUST be taken seriously...
This is my post from pillreports:
Condolences to his friends and family.
He knowingly took pma for at least a year according to him. I had on many occasions had a go at him about his pro-pma attitude, but sadly, no matter how much you try to help people, they make their own choices.
Sadly it seems that many of the younger generation of pill-takers do not take warnings seriously.
Life is precious - more precious than a night of drugtaking fun... please everyone, appreciate what you have, and treat yourself with respect...
[This message has been edited by *chaoscat* (edited 30 August 2001).]
[This message has been edited by *chaoscat* (edited 03 September 2001).]
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Messages
- 6,179
It's hard to believe people would willingly take PMA. Even more odd is why anyone would want to make it, instead of MDMA
The answer lies in two main reasons. It's a bit easier and if the process fucks up, you haven't lost expensive hard to get ingredients ingredients.
The second reason, is that the the starting material is anise oil, cheap and not suspisious to purchase.
It is often suggested as a good practice exercise for inexperienced chemists wanting to make E
From Rhodium's site:
[ 30 August 2002: Message edited by: phase_dancer ]
The answer lies in two main reasons. It's a bit easier and if the process fucks up, you haven't lost expensive hard to get ingredients ingredients.
The second reason, is that the the starting material is anise oil, cheap and not suspisious to purchase.
It is often suggested as a good practice exercise for inexperienced chemists wanting to make E
From Rhodium's site:
[ 30 August 2002: Message edited by: phase_dancer ]
Pleonastic
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2000
- Messages
- 9,428
Ummmm, my sympathy goes out to his family and friends for the tragic loss, but it's a loss which should never have happened. Quite honestly though, it's very hard for me to feel sorry for him. I wonder what ran through his mind at the point when he realised he'd gone too far. I somehow doubt it was anything like his post on pillreports.
Apologies for sounding slightly harsh, but this death was no accident - from the sounds of it it was something waiting to happen. I hope others learn from this unfortunate story not to be hero's with their drugs and to play safe. Once again, condolences to those he left behind.
Apologies for sounding slightly harsh, but this death was no accident - from the sounds of it it was something waiting to happen. I hope others learn from this unfortunate story not to be hero's with their drugs and to play safe. Once again, condolences to those he left behind.
ruski
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2000
- Messages
- 2,440
I know it was a broad generalisation, I think I did state that, but I think it was meant as a rather total warning to the Adelaide people rather than a dig at them
Like Soma says, I think you really need to intentionally produce PMA. From my understanding, and what I have read, PMA or PMMA??, synth is generally easier than MDMA synth.
Its a highly dangerous substance, and te reason why we promote pill testing is to virtually eradicate the chances of you ever unintentionally or intentionally taking a pill that may contain PMA/PMMA.
Like Soma says, I think you really need to intentionally produce PMA. From my understanding, and what I have read, PMA or PMMA??, synth is generally easier than MDMA synth.
Its a highly dangerous substance, and te reason why we promote pill testing is to virtually eradicate the chances of you ever unintentionally or intentionally taking a pill that may contain PMA/PMMA.
White Smoke
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2000
- Messages
- 60
Myself and my partner are truly sad to hear this tradegy.
Deepest condolenses to family and friends of
Ian Hard.
Deepest condolenses to family and friends of
Ian Hard.
Thats a shame to hear...
But i fear people wont take much notice of this.. apart from those close to him..
Maybe if there was a face to go with all of this people would realize he was a real person and not another statistic..
Is there a photo around of him ?
But i fear people wont take much notice of this.. apart from those close to him..
Maybe if there was a face to go with all of this people would realize he was a real person and not another statistic..
Is there a photo around of him ?
http://www.system6.doof.org/gallery/tcfm2/image11.htm
Ianhard is the one in the middle
there are plenty are pics of him on the system 6 board but thats just one....
RIP Alan....
Ianhard is the one in the middle
there are plenty are pics of him on the system 6 board but thats just one....
RIP Alan....
B
blufluffybunny
Guest
Fark.
RIP dude.
RIP dude.
I will start this by saying that Alan was an amazing person and a great friend who will be dearly missed by many people, if I could have done anything to stop his death I would have but I'm glad I was able to spend time with him on the last days of his life......
Just to clear a few things up that I have read in this thread....
1) Mr E moore - The Pma caps that were consumed by Alan were not the Blue jels but a brown powder cap otherwise known as a "Dr Death"
2) Rosencavelier - this was in the papers Friday's actually page 13 ( The Advertiser ) and also Thursdays news on channel 7.
3) Mr Horse - Alan was very well researched when it came to drugs, he would never even think of taking a drug or pill without finding out as much as possible about it first, he is considered to be the most knowledgeable on drugs with many people refering to Alan before taking drugs.
4) Choascat - your comment stating "suicidal behaviour MUST be taken seriously..." I think is very stupid, you obvilously did not know Alan personally you may have spoken to him in regards to his pro-pma attitude but did you know him as a person? If you did you would have known that Alan was one of the happiest people around and always the life of a party... actually the last days of his life he was talking about how these were the best days of his life and how much he loved all of his friends and those around him....
The offical cause of death as listed by the Royal Adelaide hospitial was "Bad Pill" NOT an overdose.
It is so sad to watch one of your friends die from anything even worse when it is drugs and someone that had so much to live for. Please take this as a lesson learnt and DO NOT mess with PMA, test all your pills before taking them because PMA plays a part of a lot more than you are lead to believe.
Just to clear a few things up that I have read in this thread....
1) Mr E moore - The Pma caps that were consumed by Alan were not the Blue jels but a brown powder cap otherwise known as a "Dr Death"
2) Rosencavelier - this was in the papers Friday's actually page 13 ( The Advertiser ) and also Thursdays news on channel 7.
3) Mr Horse - Alan was very well researched when it came to drugs, he would never even think of taking a drug or pill without finding out as much as possible about it first, he is considered to be the most knowledgeable on drugs with many people refering to Alan before taking drugs.
4) Choascat - your comment stating "suicidal behaviour MUST be taken seriously..." I think is very stupid, you obvilously did not know Alan personally you may have spoken to him in regards to his pro-pma attitude but did you know him as a person? If you did you would have known that Alan was one of the happiest people around and always the life of a party... actually the last days of his life he was talking about how these were the best days of his life and how much he loved all of his friends and those around him....
The offical cause of death as listed by the Royal Adelaide hospitial was "Bad Pill" NOT an overdose.
It is so sad to watch one of your friends die from anything even worse when it is drugs and someone that had so much to live for. Please take this as a lesson learnt and DO NOT mess with PMA, test all your pills before taking them because PMA plays a part of a lot more than you are lead to believe.
johnboy
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Oct 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,873
i have tried to keep quiet on this subject, but i have to comment on one of the last posts:
some of the things he posted on dosages of PMA were based on his own experimentation, and he tried to say that these high dosages were suitable for anyone. he posted much of this misinformation on pillreports and although i was worried that people would take his advice, i was heartened that plenty of people stepped up to challenge his "facts".
none of us should feel that we know everything. there is always something we dont know, or some factor we havent taken into account. this is why we always advise cautionary things like "start with halves" "have someone looking out for you" etc.
sure we all try to push our boundaries occasionally, and go that little bit further but at least the substances we usually do this with are somewhat forgiving. PMA is not forgiving. PMA has a safety margin that's just not to be fucked with.
if you do want to do this, go right ahead. personal liberty means that we should all be allowed to do as we wish, even if it is to do very dangerous things. the problem comes when someone tries colour other people's perceptions of that danger, for good or bad.
this has been the limit of my contact with alan, a few postings, and it is only on that which i make these judgements but i dont think those judgements are any less valid.
i saw someone acting like an idiot, and then they were dead. like everything in life, i'm sure it is a million times more complex but that is all i can see. my heart goes out to his family and friends, all loss is terrible, but i can only hope that in some way this serves as an example...
it's just a shame we've had so many fucking examples already. how many more is it going to take?
no, he thought he was, and he also felt that his limited personal experience was more valid than a wealth of peer reviewed journal articles.
some of the things he posted on dosages of PMA were based on his own experimentation, and he tried to say that these high dosages were suitable for anyone. he posted much of this misinformation on pillreports and although i was worried that people would take his advice, i was heartened that plenty of people stepped up to challenge his "facts".
none of us should feel that we know everything. there is always something we dont know, or some factor we havent taken into account. this is why we always advise cautionary things like "start with halves" "have someone looking out for you" etc.
sure we all try to push our boundaries occasionally, and go that little bit further but at least the substances we usually do this with are somewhat forgiving. PMA is not forgiving. PMA has a safety margin that's just not to be fucked with.
if you do want to do this, go right ahead. personal liberty means that we should all be allowed to do as we wish, even if it is to do very dangerous things. the problem comes when someone tries colour other people's perceptions of that danger, for good or bad.
this has been the limit of my contact with alan, a few postings, and it is only on that which i make these judgements but i dont think those judgements are any less valid.
i saw someone acting like an idiot, and then they were dead. like everything in life, i'm sure it is a million times more complex but that is all i can see. my heart goes out to his family and friends, all loss is terrible, but i can only hope that in some way this serves as an example...
it's just a shame we've had so many fucking examples already. how many more is it going to take?
I was sorry to hear about this but it was something waiting to happen in Adelaide. The Dr Deaths have been around here for so long and it is generally common knowledge that they are PMA. They have caused so many hospitalisations that i've lost count. People usually get burn't once and learn there lesson but some still seem to like them. It sounds like Ianhard knew full well what he was taking but made a mistake. I hope the people in Adelaide learn from his mistake and something good comes out of this.
PMA is an unfortunate by-product of the governments demonising of ecstasy and the evil greed of drug suppliers.
PMA however is NOT a by-product of MDMA related synthesis. The evil drug manufacturer has made it intentionally.
If someone started with safrole, isosafrole or piperonal (for MDA only) there is not a stuff up in the world one could make to get PMA at the end of it.
It is possible that some other compound would form, however this is extremely unlikely and i doubt its effects would be anything like that of amphetamines.
The chemist never had the chemicals or the resources to make any MDXX substance.
PMA is made generally with paramethoxy-benzaldehyde (this is the stuff that smells like licorice) or paramethoxy-allylbenzene.
The former is one i personally have seen bottles of and the latter is found in high amounts in a few essential oils you can buy gallons of without suspicion.
You try finding sassafras oil or bottles of piperonal. Answer, you wont.
PMA production is easy because the precursor chemicals r easy to obtain and the synthesis is the same as that for MDA or amphetamines.
One trying to synthesise ordinary amphetamines couldnt accidently get PMA either.
Please test your pils (note this is not good enough if u have a MDXX and PMA mix) and dont let there be demand for this drug.
I recall a chemistry professor of mine telling us that a particular PMA synthesis was flawed, producing a by-product which causes respiratory arrest.
I'll have to look it up, but there may be a possibility that there is PMA out there which is very dangerous, and thats not because its PMA.
Which as we have seen many times, is life-threatening on its own.
PMA however is NOT a by-product of MDMA related synthesis. The evil drug manufacturer has made it intentionally.
If someone started with safrole, isosafrole or piperonal (for MDA only) there is not a stuff up in the world one could make to get PMA at the end of it.
It is possible that some other compound would form, however this is extremely unlikely and i doubt its effects would be anything like that of amphetamines.
The chemist never had the chemicals or the resources to make any MDXX substance.
PMA is made generally with paramethoxy-benzaldehyde (this is the stuff that smells like licorice) or paramethoxy-allylbenzene.
The former is one i personally have seen bottles of and the latter is found in high amounts in a few essential oils you can buy gallons of without suspicion.
You try finding sassafras oil or bottles of piperonal. Answer, you wont.
PMA production is easy because the precursor chemicals r easy to obtain and the synthesis is the same as that for MDA or amphetamines.
One trying to synthesise ordinary amphetamines couldnt accidently get PMA either.
Please test your pils (note this is not good enough if u have a MDXX and PMA mix) and dont let there be demand for this drug.
I recall a chemistry professor of mine telling us that a particular PMA synthesis was flawed, producing a by-product which causes respiratory arrest.
I'll have to look it up, but there may be a possibility that there is PMA out there which is very dangerous, and thats not because its PMA.
Which as we have seen many times, is life-threatening on its own.
the_Oracle
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 5, 1999
- Messages
- 48
OK this is a really touchy issue...
Firstly I truly feel sorry for Ian's family.
As for his dirEct friends, well I feel sorry for their loss but if he was my friend I would have been severely on his back about what he was doing.
Tobi, Alan may have seemed educated in drugs but after following his posts on pillreports one would suggest that his 'knowledge' was based on personal experience as jb suggests.
There is one result we can draw from this posthumous madness...
"Play with fire and you will get burnt"
Firstly I truly feel sorry for Ian's family.
As for his dirEct friends, well I feel sorry for their loss but if he was my friend I would have been severely on his back about what he was doing.
Tobi, Alan may have seemed educated in drugs but after following his posts on pillreports one would suggest that his 'knowledge' was based on personal experience as jb suggests.
There is one result we can draw from this posthumous madness...
"Play with fire and you will get burnt"
OshiePeaker
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2000
- Messages
- 53
Condolences to his friends and family this is a real shame and i sure he will really be missed