Opioids Addiction - IV vs other ROA

[Bropiace]

This question has been bothering me for sometime. Beside the obvious difference in bioavailibilty and the psychological factor of the rush, at equidosage of blood concentration compared to other ROA, do you think there are other known or unkown factors that would increase the addiction and the difficulty to kick the habit ?

To clarify, it is my understanding that the bioavailibilty of Heroin is about 50% when snorted and I would assume around 100% when IV'ed. Let's say Joe have been doing X Heroin daily for a year IV'ed and Jack did the same batch intranasal for the same lenght but he did twice the amount of Joe. Assuming they are genetically identical twins would they have the same difficulty and level of acute withdrawal and PAWS or would Joe, being the IV guy, would have it harder ? And if you think so, why would that be ?

 

[Sprout]

It's worth considering that IV has the entire needle fixation to contend with. If you don't spike now, don't start - ridiculous complications, much higher OD risk, much shorter duration, blood-borne infections...
Just... don't. I regret taking up IV every day, it's a beast all of its own.

 

[SluttyPeach]

The withdrawal will be terrible no matter which ROA is used, but IV is the hardest to quit and by far the most dangerous. So basically it will suck either way, therefore it would be best to avoid IV altogether because you WILL suffer.
Nobody here can tell you what to do but please don't do it if you haven't already. You will hate every day of your life! It's not worth it.. You could get a disease like hep c or HIV, lose a limb due to abscess, or die. Not to mention getting in trouble with the law.

If it doesn't kill you it will make you wish you were dead.

 

[SKL]

I'm a junkie, I like drugs, I like the whole lifestyle ...

This, basically. IV drug use identifies you with a certain culture, a certain lifestyle, a certain commitment and dedication to getting high, and backing out of that is pretty hard. Once you can identify with that, something so stigmatized by the mainstream but so embraced by this particular culture, it can be pretty all encompassing and pretty hard to break your embrace with.

 

[manboychef]

^^^qft.

It is hard for folks that have never IV'd anything, especially coke, to understand why the needle is such a fetish.

To answer the question, opiate addiction is opiate addiction, its going to be rough on both of them because using something intranasaly is just as habit forming as using a needle.

I was in rehab with some people that were hooked on putting stuff up there nose, ie...hydrocodone and oxycodone.

 

[Bropiace]

Thanks to everyone that shared opinion and experience.

sluttypeach you are right, if my mind was set to IV nothing I would read in here would make me change my mind. However I want to reassure all of you, altho it might seems otherwise I am nowhere near IVing.

I am well acquainted with the terrible grip opiate addiction has even with different ROA, I snort Dilaudid daily and tried to kick multiple times.

Anyway, as an addict, I am interested in multiple topics related to it. And honnestly, it always bothered me that people say IV is more addictive than other ROA because I don't see any logical reasons to this (beside bioavailability of course and a strong psychological component as other mentionned... Fetishism, love of the rush, cultural stigmata and resolve to ignore it) all of those I understand, yet I see no reason for physiological reasons.

On top of this, I seem to be receiving conflicting opinions. Some say it will be more addictive, some say addiction is the same beside the psychological aspect of it. And of course IV is more dangerous. Still for those of you who believes at the same plasma concentration, IV would be more addictive (putting aside the psychological part of things), I would like to hear your theory on which mechanism would be at work to justify it.

 

[SluttyPeach]

I'm no expert by any means but one would think that IV is more addictive because you get more of the drug into your system, needle fixation aside.

As far as the fixation it seems that although the needle itself isn't inherently addictive, the feeling we get from using it is. Therefore our brain associates sticking yourself with a needle.. With pleasure. It's a learned behavior which complicates the vicious cycle of addiction and makes it that much more difficult to break.

 

[tricomb]

It took a lot for me to break my needle fixation, it was probably more than half of the rush, but I've spent years trying to rewire my brain to the way it was prior to needle fixation, and it's been working out so far. I just avoid opiates as much as possible ha.

 

[SluttyPeach]

I did for over a year, talked myself into thinking I wouldn't hurt to do it ONE MORE FUCKING TIME.. You know the rest

 

[tricomb]

yeah I relapsed on the needle like a year after quitting IV use, and although it wasn't limited to just ONE more time (it was several) but for whatever reason, I was able to stop quickly and I haven't had any problems since then. I guess I got lucky?

 

[SKL]

yeah I relapsed on the needle like a year after quitting IV use, and although it wasn't limited to just ONE more time (it was several) but for whatever reason, I was able to stop quickly and I haven't had any problems since then. I guess I got lucky?

Similar experience here, though there was about 3 years of bupe and a bear of an alcohol problem intervening. Now I've been able to take a little vacation with a bundle or three and just rock out, then return to civilian life. A dangerous path to tread though.

 

[Bropiace]

So from what I hear (and by no mean am I trying to minimize it's power) it is mostly a psychological thing.

I've been snorting the major part of my addiction and the ritual will always be a huge part of the pleasure. I can imagine how powerful it can get when IVing with the rush that follows. Still it would suggest the physical dependence at the same blood concentration is the same. The Pavlovian association with the needle would be an additional challenge tho.

 

[SKL]

Yeah, the Pavlovian association ... every time I smell an alcohol wipe, I think of shooting dope. Which is a bit of an issue as I work in a hospital.

 

[tricomb]

Similar experience here, though there was about 3 years of bupe and a bear of an alcohol problem intervening. Now I've been able to take a little vacation with a bundle or three and just rock out, then return to civilian life. A dangerous path to tread though.

indeed.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

IV I found more addictive, than say oral/snorting or plugging if you want to include that... Guese needle fixation, fixing it up, finding a spot, and my favorite part watching the blood go in the syringe. Then wanting to bang anything that can be banged... best not to start IV with anything, woulda saved me a lot of trouble...and all the dreams I've been having lately of doing it..TOURTURE, seems so real and I wanna do it sooo bad again, and well, probly will. Best not to start that route coming from someone who has done it....Really takes over your life more so than other ROA in my opinion...

 

[Bropiace]

Any idea why that would be ?

 

[manboychef]

Any ROA can become a ritual. I think a lot of the IV is the fact that it is so taboo...it becomes mysterious, alluring, and comfortable. If you have the same concentration in the blood your dependence will be the same. It will be just as bad a withdrawal if you stop. However, as slutty peach stated, you get hooked on that rush. The instant relief of withdrawal is also pretty addicting. Knowing that practically as soon as you have it in your hand you will be well. I also became addicted to tasting my shot in the back of my throat as soon as I hit, especially cocaine, and too a lesser extent heroin.

I'm of the school of thought that I can't take any vacations from not shooting opiates. I know if I do it once, I am right back to where I started. Couple that with the thought that if I have something I'm not going to waste it by sniffing it or eating it...it is going right in my vein. I know I just cannot use anymore...I don't want to end up back where I started.

The dreams get better with time. I woke up startled in rehab searching around my bed for a needle with one blessed hit in it so many times. It gets easier to immediately realise what reality is though. I have no idea why we have drug dreams when we stop.

@bropiece: Using a needle is not a never for an opiate addict...its a not yet. Remember, curiosity killed the cat.

 

[SKR]

The increased addiction associated with needle use is rooted in the increase in the instant gratification factor. With the needle one can go from sick to high in seconds. We don't like to wait us junkies and the needle reduces that unnecessary waiting, unnecessary because we discovered the needle.

 

[Bropiace]

@manboychef and SKR
It makes lots of sens. I remember telling mt doc about how I needed more fast action at equidosage than long action to last the day. Altho I am convinced it is partly for a pharmacological reaso or another, he initiated an extremely interesting discussion on the reward center in the brain and how fast action reinforced it each time I would use them.

My initial reaction was something along the line of how psychological addiction could also be a bitch and he corrected me in explaining that this reinforcement was purely neurological.

That would definitely be a reason why at equi plasma levels IVing would be more addictive. The reinforcing effect of the constant instant gratification could be overwhelming and the reason some like manboychef would feel it a waste to go with another ROA.

@bropiece: Using a needle is not a never for an opiate addict...its a not yet. Remember, curiosity killed the cat.

It sounds way too true to be ignored. I would be lying anyway if I said it never crossed my mind that IVing would be more economical or that I never wondered what the effect would be like to IV. Altho I never considered it seriously, I also never seriously saw myself addicted to opiates.

And if this question bothered me for a while on an intellectual perspective, might be that subconsciously part of me know that if that door is shut, it ain't locked.

Thank you guys for sharing.

 

[Kid Amine]

IV is instantaneous rush and the peak 'better' than snorting. and yes, it will save you money initially, I was snorting 2 dubs (double size stamp bags), and when I first shot up, 1/5 of one bag was all I needed. Ofc that quickly escalated to doing 2 bags a shot, and doing it more frequently than when I snorted, getting up to a 2 rack a day habit.

Another great reason NOT to IV is having a fair amount of hard-to-conceal/dispose of paraphenalia to go with it (syringes, spoon, filters, lighter, syringe caps, etc). You stand a much higher chance of getting busted IV over sniffing. and track marks can be very difficult to hard.

Also, while most people use 28-30ga needles for injection, when they do a liver biopsy, they use a 5" long needle (that's just the metal part; the barrel is another 5" or so) that is about 10-14ga - it's basically a fucking hollow icepick. Being told you have HepC sucks, finding out your liver is stage 3 (bridging fibroids) sucks more, having to take interferon and ribavirin for 6-12 months and having your red blood cell counted bottom out at 63% of normal sucks royally. Stick to insufflation.