Stimulants Adderall to meth?

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I've been trying to inform myself on this topic for some time now. The general consensus seems to be that either a) adderall is incredibly similar to meth or b) adderall is incomparable to meth.

Do we actually know at this point in time how damaging the effects of meth can be in comparison to something like adderall abuse? Are there even known clear differences in the HR components to these two stimulants? I've heard that a massive dose of adderall is much more damaging (physically and mentally) than a small dose of methamphetamine. But do either of these substances have documented information on how they really affect the brain positively/negatively? The public still decides that adderall is safer than meth by a long shot. I just really want to know why that is. I do know that meth being infinitely cheaper might skewer society's views on drugs. Someone would need a truck load of adderall to match the amount of meth smoking an addict typically can do.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don’t have the science to back this up, but I expect that at the maximum recommended dosages of pharmaceutical meth (Desoxyn) which is 5 mg and Adderall (which I think is 40 mg) the two drugs probably have a similar risk profile. I’m interested in this question and have been looking for papers on it.

However, comparing pharma Adderall to illegal Meth is difficult because so many problems with Meth are dose and purity dependent and you rarely know those two variables.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Meth is much stronger than just regular dexamphetamine.

I mean, you can stay up for days on that too, but it probably won't feel good after only a few. Whereas with meth, a few days? Pfft, that goes by in the blink of an eye and you don't even notice

You do hear people make variations of that argument (that meth and dexamp are quite similar pharmacologically), though...that guy Carl Hart was one in particular I remember who talked about that...but I dunno. Maybe it does help remove some of the stigma that has developed around stimulant ab(use), this comparison of a mostly illegal drug (meth) to a very common prescription drug (Adderall)...but anyone who has direct first-hand experience with these stimulants knows that yep, there's a difference, one is just a much stronger, more potent drug.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Meth is much stronger than just regular dexamphetamine.

I mean, you can stay up for days on that too, but it probably won't feel good after only a few. Whereas with meth, a few days? Pfft, that goes by in the blink of an eye and you don't even notice

You do hear people make variations of that argument (that meth and dexamp are quite similar pharmacologically), though...that guy Carl Hart was one in particular I remember who talked about that...but I dunno. Maybe it does help remove some of the stigma that has developed around stimulant ab(use), this comparison of a mostly illegal drug (meth) to a very common prescription drug (Adderall)...but anyone who has direct first-hand experience with these stimulants knows that yep, there's a difference, one is just a much stronger, more potent drug.

As I’ve mentioned many times on BL (sorry for repetition), I find dexamfetamine (which I am prescribed) to be an almost completely different category of drug to meth (to which I am addicted). The principal difference is the ‘body load’, if that’s the right term, of meth which ramps up erotic sensitivities. Even small doses of meth generate that kind of a tingle while large doses can make libido almost uncontrollable. Dexamfetamine on the other hand operates only on my cognitive functions and I feel nothing in my body.

I find the other difference to be the desire for re-dosing. With dexamfetamine I never feel compelled to take more than my prescribed dose and the few time I have I moved from feeling cognitively powerful to feeling jittery really quickly. However, when taking a small dose of meth (say 10-20 mg) in the morning because that’s all I have I will inevitably end up impulsively going and finding a gram and keep going. That’s even if I have not been using for some time. So I rate the addiction potential of dexamfetamine to be significantly lower than that of meth. I currently have 800 dex pills and haven’t touched one for months. But I’m burning through meth that costs 10 X as much at a gram a day.

 

[spidersRfriends]

I've done quite a bit of research on this. Meth crosses the blood-brain barrier much faster than adderall, hence the "rush" feeling. The rush is typically what people enjoy about being high or at least a large piece of it. It's the change in state from sober to inebriated. With drugs that are absorbed faster you have the oncoming rush feeling, which you get with meth but not adderall. It's sort of similar to the instant and extended release versions of opioids, they created extended release versions so there would be a slower absorption, less "rush", and therefor less addiction and compulsive redosing behavior (to feel the next rush).

So the compounds act on the body in much the same way, it's just that one is absorbed more completely and more rapidly than the other. This causes the more euphoric effects but is also responsible for the neurotoxic effects.

Meth you buy on the streets cannot be compared to lab-grade meth (Desoxyn) which is prescribed in 5mg doses. Meth on the street is d-Meth while lab grad Desoxyn is l-meth. The lab grade version is of course more pure and far less "potent" even in equal doses to street meth. You won't be able to get out of street meth what you get out of Desoxyn because of the impurities and difference in chemical structure and strength.

Hope that helps.

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

I've never tried pharma meth (Desoxyn), but the peak of a strong adderall high is similar IME to the peak of a meth high.

This is a good thread because it'll effect everyone differently.

Atelier3 has a lot more experience with it than i do, but for me they seem quite similar.

Although, I've never felt my head spin off addies. And I've taken a lot of adderall at once.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've never tried pharma meth (Desoxyn), but the peak of a strong adderall high is similar IME to the peak of a meth high.

This is a good thread because it'll effect everyone differently.

Atelier3 has a lot more experience with it than i do, but for me they seem quite similar.

Although, I've never felt my head spin off addies. And I've taken a lot of adderall at once.

What about the moreish/re-dosing factor. Do you find them the same in that regard?

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

Well it's quite different because i snort my adderall and it doesn't last nearly as long as meth. So in that sense adderall is moreish for me. Also, the crash from adderall is horrid. Another reason I'd redose.

But, smoking and shooting meth was far more addictive to me. So, moreish in that sense.

 

[Jabberwocky]

update you info, the maximum recommended dosages of pharmaceutical meth (Desoxyn) is 25mg/day check drugs.com

the main difference between meth and adderall is that meth is serotonin dopamine noradrenaline releasing agent but adderall is just noradrenaline dopamine releasing agent, so meth is more addictive with less tolerance ability and less cardiac side effects, in recommended dosages.

Good catch. 5 mg the starting dose to be increased on 5 mg increments up to max 25. Sorry.

I doubt I would be able to tolerate a 25 mg dose. It would trigger my hunger for sure.

 

[4meSM]

Meth you buy on the streets cannot be compared to lab-grade meth (Desoxyn) which is prescribed in 5mg doses. Meth on the street is d-Meth while lab grad Desoxyn is l-meth.

That's not true, both pharmaceutical and street meth are dextromethamphetamine. Although street meth can also be racemic so 50% levo and 50% dextro.
Levomethamphetamine is not a recreational drug or a cognitive enhancer by itself, you find it in vick inhalers which are even sold OTC.
Street meth is not too different from desoxyn if it's good quality, the difference is in the dosage and in thw fact that one of them comes in pill form (which you can't really smoke and shouldn't IV).

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Pretty big difference as far as the toll on the brain goes. That doesn't mean amphetamine is harmless, by any means, though.

 

[Drspazz69]

so meth is more addictive with less tolerance ability and less cardiac side effects, in recommended dosages

Can we talk about the cardiac effects of adderall to meth? Never done meth but have popped addys back in 2014 here and there snorted a good amount on 4th of July back then. I swear I have heart palpitations from doing the addys. 20mg here and there and then friend got scribed 40mg. Never super abused them but we had a good run for a couple months off and on. Anyone else experience heart palps or am I tripping?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I can’t comment on Adderal directly but Rx dexamfetamine gives me palpitations over about 50 mg. However my heart would always seem slow and steady after shooting 2 points of quality meth. It just seemed to beat a bit stronger rather than faster or irregular.

I’d like to know why dex induces tachycardia at modest doses while meth just delivers a fairly chill kind of energy and wakefulness.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I only have one comment - I hate you lucky bustards that are living in a Commonwealth countries. I am jealous as hell because you can actually question is it better to get Adderal and dexamphetamine from the doctor or should you buy meth. I have diagnosed adhd and the only option in my country is Concerta. Oh yes, I can also get SNRI. We don't have meth available and amphetamine sulphate is so cut that you consider yourself lucky if purity is 10%. Fuck you lucky pricks. And a happy new year to you all. ❤

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

So meth releasing serotonin/crossing the blood-brain barrier faster makes it "neurotoxic?"

Particularly, I am very interested the mental side effects (caused by physical changes in the brain). Amphetamines do not restrict blood-flow while increasing heart rate--like cocaine does. Therefor, while it is possible to achieve an amphetamine overdose it is VERY unlikely. You'd have to take enough to kill Moby dick the whale and his friends. An adderall/meth overdose would most likely be intended in my opinion. Where as cocaine? People do drop from trying to inhale a line far too big.

However, I'm wondering if meth has caused any long term consequences for users that they noticed. Such as memory issues, permanent depression, etc. Thanks guys!

 

[Jabberwocky]

However, I'm wondering if meth has caused any long term consequences for users that they noticed. Such as memory issues, permanent depression, etc. Thanks guys!

Yes. I have had two episodes of intensive meth use 5 years apart. The first was for 6 months and the second for 12 months (just ended).

During both episodes I noticed a significant cognitive impairment, damage to my executive functioning (basically impulse control, and both my long term and working memory.

1 year after the first episode all that impairment had healed and I was back to baseline. Except for memory - that seems to be permanent. I have lost a lot of memories and have trouble retaining new information without a lot of effort and revision.

Although I suffered terrible depression and anxiety for 3 months following that first episode it all healed within a year.

It’s too soon to tell what long term impacts there will be from the second episode. I expect cognitive impairment may be more more permanent but the emotional and psychological impairment less severe thanks to Rx medicating for them.

All in all though the impairment only seems noticeable to me. No-one has ever indicated they think I’m losing it.

That said, it’s transparently obvious to me that long term heavy users suffer enormous cognitive impairment. However, all such users that I know are current users and I don’t know how much they would recover if they ever quit.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Yes. I have had two episodes of intensive meth use 5 years apart. The first was for 6 months and the second for 12 months (just ended).

During both episodes I noticed a significant cognitive impairment, damage to my executive functioning (basically impulse control, and both my long term and working memory.

1 year after the first episode all that impairment had healed and I was back to baseline. Except for memory - that seems to be permanent. I have lost a lot of memories and have trouble retaining new information without a lot of effort and revision.

Although I suffered terrible depression and anxiety for 3 months following that first episode it all healed within a year.

It’s too soon to tell what long term impacts there will be from the second episode. I expect cognitive impairment may be more more permanent but the emotional and psychological impairment less severe thanks to Rx medicating for them.

All in all though the impairment only seems noticeable to me. No-one has ever indicated they think I’m losing it.

That said, it’s transparently obvious to me that long term heavy users suffer enormous cognitive impairment. However, all such users that I know are current users and I don’t know how much they would recover if they ever quit.

Isn't memory issue a problem with all stimulants in general? Mostly via abuse.. but even so with safe amounts.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Isn't memory issue a problem with all stimulants in general? Mostly via abuse.. but even so with safe amounts.

Nothing I’ve read in the medical literature suggests it’s a problem at low Rx doses. In fact in some studies dexamfetamine has improved working memory.

A huge problem in a lot of drug research into stimulants is that they use tiny doses compared to what addicts and abusers typically use.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Nothing I’ve read in the medical literature suggests it’s a problem at low Rx doses. In fact in some studies dexamfetamine has improved working memory.

A huge problem in a lot of drug research into stimulants is that they use tiny doses compared to what addicts and abusers typically use.

You know I didn't notice much from adderall use alone actually.

It was ecstacy that gave me problems that you're describing. It could be short term... some might not be. Either way I never much used ecs until the quarantine. Really wishing I hadn't.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You know I didn't notice much from adderall use alone actually.

It was ecstacy that gave me problems that you're describing. It could be short term... some might not be. Either way I never much used ecs until the quarantine. Really wishing I hadn't.

Yeah. I did a six month / every week MDMA bender in the 90s before anybody knew you should only roll a few times a year. That definitely put major holes in my memory. I have also had Electro Shock Therapy that further impacts memory. It’s lucky I can remember my own name really.