4-methylamphetamine?

[nuke]

Plus, why the precursors here are 'to acquire'? the 3-alkylbenzaldehydes aren't common enought for you?
Oh my ADD these days...

Be quiet, you're going to make the vendors feel sad about the Chinese chemists ripping the shirts from off their backs.

 

[titstypedthis]

WTF man? I just stated in chemical point of view that this isn't hard at all!
And plus I just say in one sentence and you say me to stop moaning out of my ass?

yeah if you start from 3-methylbenzaldehyde8)

Yes, the 3-fluoro is more common hence the corresponding aniline can be displaced via H+/NO2-/F- but not the methyl but that is still NOT my point.

Also, I'm not aiming for it nor aiming for anything at all! the amphetamines and alike are not my style. Meh!

derp

let down your ego man, i was talking to fencamfamine, not you, saying IF swiy is making it, swiy is either aiming for it or not, since he didnt seem to understand that.

Plus, since when do the precursors here are 'hard to acquire'? the 3-alkylbenzaldehydes, or even 1,3-disub benzene aren't common enought for you?
Oh my ADD these days...

again, who wants too rely on the chinese?


Never even mind man, this is the wrong place for me too ask anyway

 

[fencamfamine]

similar duration, lower dose..

Really, that is interesting. So the p-Me isn't an important route of metabolism; that's a pity.

 

[Smyth]

I would recommend any of the compounds listed in any of the Rothman papers as worth targeting. Even though, compounds such as PAL-287 were quoted as being non-addictive, that is not saying that they are without merit.

Although not related to the thread topic, I just got wondering what the effect of 3-methoxy amphetamine would be like (probably bogus).

Also, does anybody know what 4-nitro-amphetamine is like (surely this must have been tasted/tested).

 

[fencamfamine]

I have also wondered about the nitro compound. It is usually said that aromatic nitros are a bad thing, but there are obvious exceptions.

p-TAP looks like it could be an interesting lead compound. I wonder if the amine being constrained would make for a safer compound? A secondary amine, for sure.

 

[atara]

The 3-methoxy-4-fluoro sounds interesting as does the 3,4-difluoro.

There's also an interesting unexplored cyclic substituent with a few possible variants all of which seem enticing.

 

[fencamfamine]

I can see why you picked that particular halo, but any reason why the 3,4? I don't have the binding/efficy information in front of me; did this material stand out in some way?

I just re-read what Rectify suggested: 4 ethyl. It's interesting when looking at Pihkal that with the 3-carbon analogs (of the 2,5 dimethyloxy 4-alkyl) the potency goes down but the duration goes up. Would I be correct in thinking it's because they are more lipophilic?

Thinking back, I'm sure that 3-methoxy 4-alkyl amphetamines have been made in Russia. Reports said that the 4-methyl was sort of OK for an MDMA substitute but longer alkyls were just too low potency.

I'm just someone who finds the open-chain PEAs too physically taxing. If 4-Me or 3,4 methylenedioxy are known to have the right balance of releasing/reuptake inhibition for dopamine, serotonin & norepinephrine then it would be confirmation of the amine I would look into. Oxazine-rings have been sucessfully utilized in the past. One cannot help wondering if Mr. Fastandbulbous tried ring-substituted phenmetrazine analogs as part of his pHd?

I'm going to make a prediction - I predict 2-(3,4 methylenedioxy)-3-methyl morpholine will make a pretty good MDMA substitute. I'm not sure about the p-Me (even though it's more practical). I thought, from methedrone, that the p-Me offered a metabolic pathway for oxidation (it's certainly noticed in the metabolites) but it may not be.

That's a problem because nobody, however hardcore, would want MDMA-like activity for several days! The strongest morpholine was the 2-phenyl-4,4-dimethyl with a similar dose range to dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine for those old enough). It got quite a long way into research before it was discovered to be teratotoxic. It only occured at very high dose levels (the 100s mg/kg) but it was still considered enough to kill the project stone dead.

The oxazines seem to have enhanced dopamine over norepinephrine activity & don't produce much in the way of physical effects. They are, in addition, far less toxic & generally better tolerated. Of course, the bornanones are even better but they aren't likely to show up as RCs any time soon

Lastly, I don't know why the CH3 -> CH2OH ->COOH would be so toxic. Surely less so than the 3,4 di -OH as seen in the 'original' entactogen. Not GOOD, I appreciate, but then not SO bad. The 4 nitro is of academic interest if nothing else...

 

[atara]

The 3-methoxy-4-methylamphetamine was sold as a research chemical for a time, until the only guy supplying it died of a heroin overdose. It was, from most reports, an 8-12 hour experience, and sort of a sedating entactogen. The descriptions make me think it was somewhere between 6-APB and IAP.

It was also noted by David Nichols as a non-neurotoxic serotonin releaser.

The 3',4'-methylenedioxy-4-methylaminorex, that being the 4-MAR analog with a methylenedioxy substituent on the phenyl ring, was tested by some chemists at the Hive and was considered disappointing, more similar to 4-MAR than to MDMA. In the case of the aminorex derivatives it was suggested that a strongly electron-withdrawing group on the 4' position, such as methylsulfonyl, might be ideal.

The 3,4-difluoro substitution pattern is interesting merely by analogy to MDMA itself, and the fact that 4-fluoroamphetamine is already well-known as a recreational entactogen, but with low potency (~150 mg required for full effect) and significant residual stimulation after the fact.

The 4-fluorophenylisobutylamine also seems interesting, as another derivative of the -- I would call it successful -- 4-FA skeleton.

 

[fencamfamine]

I've yet to read a QSAR that deals with the aminorex series. I must do some work with Chem Office & overlay the series with mazindol. Mazindol has a quite detailed QSAR & what is nice is that a lot of analogs seem to allow for disubstitution in a similar manner to those phenyltropanes with 3,4 disubstitution. p-Nitro you say?

I wouldn't worry about potency until the toxic side-effects become a problem. OK 150mg is quite high, but then it's similar to MDMA and that's been reasonably popular, I hear. Getting decent DRI/NRI & SRI (and SR) all in a single molecule is pretty impressive to me. There doesn't seem to many ways around it. p-alkyl sounds like it's OK as long as it's not TOO SR/SRI in comparison to the other activities. AET seemed OK but I noted that someone messed with it producing the 7-methyl analog that was PM(M)A level dangerous.

Funny that mephedrone seems 'quite' safe - if you didn't know, you would likely guess not (OK I would).

 

[/navarone/]

When speaking of serotonergic stimulants, the neurotoxicity issues are hard to avoid since high concentrations of both dopamine and serotonin seem to be the main reason for neurotoxicity, AFAIK when such concentrations of the two are present, serotonergic neurons tend to absorb dopamine as well (or maybe the other way round, my memory is a bit rusy at the moment) and thats causes neuronal death.
Furthermore the main and most abboundant metabolite of MDMA is as many know 3,4-dihydroxyamphetamine, a known neurotoxin which is used clinically to selectively kills dopaminergic neurons, it has been speculated that even the 4-me analogue gets hydroxilated leading to the same issues but so far this theory doesn't seem to fit with other findings by Nichols like the absence of neurotoxicity in 4-Me-3-MeO-amphetamine which in my opinion seems to be one of the best MDMA analogues even if the long 12-16 hour duration scares me in some way. A beta keto analogue of this subtance would highly reduce duration like with all pther beta keto amphetamines since they get quickly converted into beta hydroxys and rapidly expelled from the CNS.

The problem with mephedrone since it was marketed was mostly due to irresponsable users who just couldn't stop redosing over and over until they got literally fucked up or ened up dead. What induces common users into taking such high ammounts and redosing seems to be the following:

- high dopaminergic, adrenergic and serotonergic releasing properties (with serotonergic and adrenergic activity even higher than methamphetamine)

- short duration though with high withdrawal-hangover effects that seem to induce users into redosing.

- very potent vasoconstricting properties, along with very high hypertensive effects.

- since it is mostly sold as racemic, the s-enatiomer seems to be more toxic to serotonergic neurons.

Even though I have never tried it (maybe accidentally), from reports it seems to be inferior to MDMA.
5-methyl-MDA seems to have been quite successful among MDMA-enthusiasts with active doses ranging from 15-25 mg and supposedly non-neurotoxic (though much less stimulating compared to MDMA).
I think this structure should be investigated further especially the 5th position.
My proposal would be 3-fluoro-5-methylamphetamine.

 

[Smyth]

I found a good recent article on pubmed that might keep this thread alive:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21228061

J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2011 Jan 12. [Epub ahead of print]

In Vivo Effects of Amphetamine Analogs Reveal Evidence for Serotonergic Inhibition of Mesolimbic Dopamine Transmission in the Rat.
Baumann MH, Clark RD, Woolverton WL, Wee S, Blough B, Rothman RB.

 

[Twigs]

The 3-methoxy-4-methylamphetamine was sold as a research chemical for a time, until the only guy supplying it died of a heroin overdose. It was, from most reports, an 8-12 hour experience, and sort of a sedating entactogen. The descriptions make me think it was somewhere between 6-APB and IAP.

Thread about MMA:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=362771

I would also be really interested in trying 3-methoxy-4-fluoroamphetamine and DOF for that matter.

 

[titstypedthis]

I would also be really interested in trying 3-methoxy-4-fluoroamphetamine .

someones been reading about shulgins new book?

 

[Twigs]

someones been reading about shulgins new book?

Actually no.
I made the comment because atara mentioned it earlier and because I quite like MMA
But is it in the new book? I would very much like to know shulgins impression of it.

 

[titstypedthis]

Actually no.
I made the comment because atara mentioned it earlier and because I quite like MMA
But is it in the new book? I would very much like to know shulgins impression of it.

oh lol, you nerds and your edits..

no i heard there was alot of 3-methoxy phens/amps in the new book is all.


Isnt it supposed to be out by now?

 

[Twigs]

^ http://transformpress.com/shulginindexvol1.html

 

[Twigs]

4-methylamphetamine got scheduled in Denmark yesterday, together with mescaline containing cacti (WTF!) and 22 cannabinoids.

4-methylamphetamine was involved in the death of a 27 year old male in December.

 

[FlippingTop]

this drug still intrigues me, sorry for digging up a dead thread but it's fascinating.

 

[Transform]

Apparently this is becoming more popular - the EMCDDA have produced an interesting report on it which can be found here.

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/joint-reports/4-methylamphetamine

 

[SkyblueMolly]

4-Methylamphetamine still seems interesting to me. I hope studies can be done and more people report on it. Maybe 4-Methylamphetamine is safer and less addictive than amphetamine and
N-Methyl-amphetamine and would be an alternative for amphetamine/methamphetamine.
I think 4-Methylamphetamine could be active at doses of 75mg(orally). Maybe a starting dose(oral) could be 40mg or something. Intrieguing! %)
Nearly all the tinfoil hat, now with less damage and mildly more friendliness.
Caution/!\:Tin foil hat area.
Extreme caution must still be taken though.