RCs 3F-Phenmetrazine (3-FPM)

[OcCo]

This is another one to throw on the shit pile, 10mins of euphoria then it just vanishes leaving you focused and motivated for 45 minutes, I see no use in it if your wanting to be focused and motivated there are far better chemicals out there than this.

 

[cybergollum]

if your wanting to be focused and motivated there are far better chemicals out there than this

Can you list them for current and future readers of this thread? At least community will know what your preferences are and then other people will decide if they need to listen to your advice or not, right?

I mean besides obvious amph and methamph -- it would be inappropriate to compare to them after noticing message that this class of chemicals was claimed to have lesser side-effects and therefore likely lesser main effects comparing to amphetamine family.

EDIT: btw, what dosages and ROAs you tried?

 

[XEM]

How bad of an idea do you think it would be (I'm just querying for people's opinions, mostly) to take a low oral dose (10-20 mg) of this (3F-Phenmetrazine) 5 days a week for an extended period of time (2-3 months)?

It seems better (and incidentally cheaper) than most everything else available. Mainly it's the unknown that is deeply concerning.

Thank you all, by the way, for you contributions to this thread.

 

[Sprout]

I find, or found; I lost my last 300mg , 3-FPM remarkably sexual.

 

[cybergollum]

How bad of an idea do you think it would be (I'm just querying for people's opinions, mostly) to take a low oral dose (10-20 mg) of this (3F-Phenmetrazine) 5 days a week for an extended period of time (2-3 months)?

I guess first you need to find exact information about dose conversion between 3F-P and phenmetrazine/phendimetrazine. For example (not such a good example actually... need more google searching):

THERAPEUTIC DOSE:
ADULT: Amphetamine: 5 to 60 mg/day in doses for narcolepsy or 20 mg daily as an release tablet for the treatment of adult ADHD; Benzphetamine: 25 to 50 mg 1 to 3 times daily; Diethylpropion: 75 mg/day; Lisdexamfetamine: 30 to 70 mg once daily; Phendimetrazine: 35 mg two to three times daily or 105 mg as a sustained-release capsule once daily; Phentermine: 18.75 or 37.5 mg once daily.

url

Remember that phendimetrazine is prodrug so its half-life is 3 times longer than half-life of phenmetrazine itself: 24 hours vs 8 hours (from wikihendimetrazine). And we still don't know exact or just rough information about half-life of 3F-P.

As for me your dosage is ok but I only tried it once (1 g during 3 days and mostly intramuscular). I never was prescribed to and never self-treated with stimulants so I definitely haven't enough competence and confidence to make advice about therapeutic usage. Make notes (at least one-two times in a week) if you will still decide to try it.

 

[Transform]

Does anyone have solubility info for volumetric dosing?

Mg/Ml soluble in water? Or is alcohol necessary?

It is important to use the correct capitalisation in scientific notification. It took me a good minute to figure out that you weren't discussing solubility of some magnesium salt!

Milli as a prefix is always abbreviated with a lower-case m, otherwise it means mega, which is obviously much larger.

How bad of an idea do you think it would be (I'm just querying for people's opinions, mostly) to take a low oral dose (10-20 mg) of this (3F-Phenmetrazine) 5 days a week for an extended period of time (2-3 months)?

That seems like as bad an idea as it would be with any stimulant, which is to say "not a great idea". If there are metabolic toxins produced then it could be an even worse idea. Definitely wait a year or two before trying an experiment like that.

 

[spikeycloud]

Can anyone comment on the cross tolerance with other stimulants like the x-FA's if I take let's say 50 MG this weekend, will it reduce my 4-FA trip in the next weekend?

 

[cybergollum]

I think no, 50 mg is not enough deplete your neurotransmitters for a long-term. Even larger doses will be ok (how much larger? don't know). But I am assuming you are healthy, eat and sleep enough, and not usually stressed/depressed, etc. Generally I think trip will be fine.

EDIT: I probably wrong (read messages below). We don't know how works 3f-p and actually I have no idea will it give long-lasting tolerance or how it could affect 4-fa trip.

 

[crOOk]

I think no, 50 mg is not enough deplete your neurotransmitters for a long-term

Depleting monoamines really isn't the issue with regular stimulant use. I wonder where you got the idea that it could be and how you came to the conclusion that this particular substance would not do so at a dosage of 50mg.

 

[cybergollum]

Depleting monoamines really isn't the issue with regular stimulant use. I wonder where you got the idea that it could be...

No? I always thought it could be because I always feel bad (especially mentally) for a week or even more after doing methylone (the substance I used most). I thought this was because of depletion. Other example is d-amph. Two times I used it and it left me with long-lasting depression too. Other RCs (stimulants) has lesser or larger effect but depression always exist. What reasons there could be except of depletion? Not enough vitamins or minerals? But I usually eat good enough...

Need to notice I usually do too much of drug during session.

...how you came to the conclusion that this particular substance would not do so at a dosage of 50mg.

If you took in account previous sentence then you would almost know the answer I thought that 50 mg of this particular substance wouldn't do depletion because only overall high dosage during long drug-session can do this. Of course there could be exclusions but generally it could be true that one accidental and not really high dose (here I based my think on the experience I had -- as for me 50 mg isn't 'really high' dose) of stimulant will not cause it.

Excuse me my ignorance (if there any) and correct me if I am saying something stupid or if I am missing something obvious. I will edit my previous message if my thinking was completely wrong.

Feel free to ask more if you have other questions because I feel my answer is a bit crumpled and it should be more detailed. There will be too much off-topic though.

 

[Transform]

No? I always thought it could be because I always feel bad (especially mentally) for a week or even more after doing methylone (the substance I used most). I thought this was because of depletion. Other example is d-amph. Two times I used it and it left me with long-lasting depression too. Other RCs (stimulants) has lesser or larger effect but depression always exist. What reasons there could be except of depletion? Not enough vitamins or minerals? But I usually eat good enough...

Need to notice I usually do too much of drug during session.

You need to factor in the fact that some compounds (empthogens) inhibit the replenishment of serotonin and as a result cause an extended comedown, past what might be expected from neurotransmitter depletion.

 

[spikeycloud]

No? I always thought it could be because I always feel bad (especially mentally) for a week or even more after doing methylone (the substance I used most). I thought this was because of depletion. Other example is d-amph. Two times I used it and it left me with long-lasting depression too. Other RCs (stimulants) has lesser or larger effect but depression always exist. What reasons there could be except of depletion? Not enough vitamins or minerals? But I usually eat good enough...

Need to notice I usually do too much of drug during session.



If you took in account previous sentence then you would almost know the answer I thought that 50 mg of this particular substance wouldn't do depletion because only overall high dosage during long drug-session can do this. Of course there could be exclusions but generally it could be true that one accidental and not really high dose (here I based my think on the experience I had -- as for me 50 mg isn't 'really high' dose) of stimulant will not cause it.

Excuse me my ignorance (if there any) and correct me if I am saying something stupid or if I am missing something obvious. I will edit my previous message if my thinking was completely wrong.

Feel free to ask more if you have other questions because I feel my 'speech' is a bit crumpled and it should be more detailed. There will be too much off-topic though.

Tolerance is very complex, depletion is indeed a thing that plays with it. But downregulation or destruction of neurons even more. Of course your brains can make another path to healthy neurons, but this also depends on your neuroplasticity. Also I the case of Amfetamines the nmda receptor recepors play a role. Also the chemical make-up of a substance does matter.

So that's why I ask it from experience, because it is close to impossible to see it from a scientific standpoint imho.

Also I'm planning to switch over to 2C-D when going out and less on stimulants. Because 2C-D is only a light agonist of serotonin (like shrooms) and doesn't release any. So in my mind the downregulation will be minimal. That's probably why I can redose 3 times after eachother and get a better effect each time.

 

[crOOk]

@cybergollum

It's an issue with serotonin releasing agents, but I was referring to stimulants in particular. Methylone might be considered stimulating, but it's generally categorized as an empathogen. Dopamine or noradrenaline depletion is not an issue I know of. There are a lot of other mechanisms which can lead to rebound effects you describe. Receptor downregulation, phosphorylation blah blah blah.

With the second question I was merely trying to point out that we just don't have enough data to make such assumptions. It could give others the idea of the drug being 'safe' within certain dosage ranges. Best not make such comments for the sake of harm reduction. Some people will believe anything they read..

Sorry if I sounded like a twat, it's a known issue. :D

Merry xmas!

 

[cybergollum]

Thanks for clarification, you gave me some mental pabulum.

Dopamine or noradrenaline depletion is not an issue I know of.

It is good to hear. This is one of these rare situations when you are glad you were wrong

With the second question I was merely trying to point out that we just don't have enough data to make such assumptions. It could give others the idea of the drug being 'safe' within certain dosage ranges. Best not make such comments for the sake of harm reduction. Some people will believe anything they read..

I understand. Excuse me.
I edited message.

Sorry if I sounded like a twat, it's a known issue. :D

Merry xmas!

No problem. Happy New Year!

 

[kingqueen1]

Tolerance is very complex, depletion is indeed a thing that plays with it. But downregulation or destruction of neurons even more. Of course your brains can make another path to healthy neurons, but this also depends on your neuroplasticity. Also I the case of Amfetamines the nmda receptor recepors play a role. Also the chemical make-up of a substance does matter.

So that's why I ask it from experience, because it is close to impossible to see it from a scientific standpoint imho.

Also I'm planning to switch over to 2C-D when going out and less on stimulants. Because 2C-D is only a light agonist of serotonin (like shrooms) and doesn't release any. So in my mind the downregulation will be minimal. That's probably why I can redose 3 times after eachother and get a better effect each time.

What about the Ndma receptor with amphetamine? Really interested with all dissoc i did

 

[spikeycloud]

What about the Ndma receptor with amphetamine? Really interested with all dissoc i did

Well it seems that it prevents Ampethamine torerance to increase. There are plenty of topics posted about that. I don't know if you have to take at the same time together though. Hold on going to look for it.

Quick search gave me this -> http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/300513-Reversing-amphetamine-tolerence but there is a lot more information on the net.

 

[cybergollum]

I found another good link (didn't ready it yet but will definitely do this), at least it seems like good

Here it is: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/654034-FAQ-amp-Guide-How-To-Get-The-Most-Out-Of-Amphetamines!

Scroll to "NMDA antagonists for tolerance reduction".

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I've not read the whole thread so apologies if I repeat something that's already been said.

I saw this compound for sale just before Xmas (always slow on the uptake me) so ordered 500mg as that was the maximum purchase my vendor was offering at the time. After a couple of very small sublingual allergy tests, I decided to try vaping it on foil. God, it vapes and runs so smoothly and cleanly it's just a pleasure to smoke - just had a slight plastic taste. The first few lines didn't do much, but after a while, every hit gave me a classic dopamine rush. Although quite compulsive, I found it quite easy to put down the foil and use its 'functional stimulant' qualities. There was no jitteriness or real fiending and I slept easily that night. It's also very good for sexy times, but stim dick does come into play. However, its not that potent as me and the gf got through the 500mg in one night. This one is a keeper....

 

[Lady Codone]

Thanks for the info, Ziiirp. Definitely not planning to use it regularly, just a couple times to break up the 2-FA monotony Hell, I may even wait a few more months to let some trip reports pile up before trying it. Just don't want to bother with something that feels jittery like caffeine or makes my heart pound like MDPV. What a nightmare :O

 

[InterestingFACT]

I too saw this one appear shortly before Christmas. I guess I'm not paying much attention to the RC markets lately--whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to interpretation.

Is there a consensus yet on a "normal" oral dosage for effective functional stimulation? I'm not normally too interested in recreational usage of stimulants, but wouldn't mind giving a phenmetrazine analogue a whirl, just to say I did. Besides, from what I can tell HDMP-28 has much more recreational potential than this one.