25i, a scumsucking low life drug for fools. Need help with recovery.

[Solipsis]

You're welcome man.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Damn, the motor speech thing being associated with 25i is a bummer. Really hope most people are safe from it.

If it helps you feel any better, I took a couple somewhat irresponsible doses of NBOMEs (including 25I) when they first came on the scene, and we didn't yet know about their dangers, and I'm doing okay. No motor or speech problems.

 

[JBrandon]

I don't think taking any drug, psychedelic or otherwise, is a good idea for the foreseeable future.

You're not going to "reverse" these perceived effects and deficits with another drug.

 

[Winchester77]

I've done it before against meth. It's very dangerous, and risky, but I've got things to do and unfortunately need a good mind to excel at those things. Psychedelics is the only way, I'm gonna be safe and wait 2 months post initial 25i usage. But I can't even type properly right now, extreme difficulty reading words out loud, speaking has gotten somewhat better fortunately and my thinking is still sluggish. LSD and psilocybin have numerous benefits when utilized for their beneficial purposes. Only thing I'm worried about is the unknown of the 25i and how it's post usage psyche could possibly interfere with another psychedelic, that's where the 2 month wait comes in. It'll work, but at the same time goddamn I hope this works. Much love.

 

[Solipsis]

I recommend that you don't.. not saying you can never trip or take any drug again ever, but it is in your best interest to wait with them until you recover spontaneously...

Even if it's a single one, that other report also mentioning very similar or same forms of brain dysfunction otherwise quite unheard of with psychedelics makes it unlikely that you both suffered from indirect complications in the exact same way - just seems too coincidental - that was a big question before as well: whether it would be kind of random depending on where you get a vascular / ischemic etc event, or rather problems in the neocortex that is by far the fullest of the serotonergic receptors drugs like 25I target. If different people get the latter type of issue, that would make it seem like extreme enough dysregulation of function there could affect the decision making that precedes actual motor control - even if that in effect looks like a motor control issue like cerebellar ataxia which is in quite a different part of the brain and instead something that say dissociatives can mess up for a while.
Similar to there being a critical point of loss of grey matter that typically leads to psychosis in progressive schizophrenic illness: you can only afford to lose a certain part before the brain cant do its job anymore. Only in this case you'd have much better hopes from just waiting until you repopulate receptors etc. From what we can guess this has a fine chance of healing imo.

I realize this is a different theory, and that you are not really helped by endless speculation by uncertified people who cannot test you over the internet, and rather some medical checks to just rule out the worst (ischemic stuff etc) which you did / are doing.

But what it does suggest, is that if that serotonergic activity is so unusually affected, it's quite a risk to take other psychedelics that also work on those receptors - even if they are more physically safe classic psychedelics. I'd at the very least postpone it as much as possible so that you can restore that functionality - which sounds like not a bad chance for you since it wouldn't be such serious organic damage! So: I'd try to let that be more important than what would normally be promising healing potential from psychedelics, I just don't think it's safe enough to just compare it to what meth did to you, it's a different drug and healing mental issues therapeutically is also quite different from physical organic brain issues.... your check-up, and you not being the only one give you good signs, now try to be patient and do exercizes to train those functions.

 

[Solipsis]

That is an excellent piece of advice!! Do it

Hey uh are NBOMe compounds actually verified to cause vascular issues like constriction ? I thought that was mostly things like Bromo-Dragonfly? What was said on the previous page is that seizures themselves can cause complications in autonomic function... much more tentative and indirect?

Haven't personally heard about say gangrene and limb amputations from NBOMe victims.

 

[TheBlackPirate]

Hey uh are NBOMe compounds actually verified to cause vascular issues like constriction ? I thought that was mostly things like Bromo-Dragonfly? What was said on the previous page is that seizures themselves can cause complications in autonomic function... much more tentative and indirect?

Haven't personally heard about say gangrene and limb amputations from NBOMe victims.

Perhaps they could...

Longer duration drugs with similar pharmacology result in potentially dangerous vasoconstriction. Bromo-Dragonfly and DOC create dangerous vasconstriction in some.

 

[Solipsis]

Sure its not impossible, don't close the door on anything like that in an early stage... but it's not too much to ask for at least some anecdotal evidence of it happening, otherwise how could it be significant?

 

[psood0nym]

Next day do my research find it out its 25i

You mean you read a bunch of stuff and guessed you took 25i. So actually you don't know what you took. There are numerous nbome and nboh chemicals out there, pretty sure it's impossible to just guess which one you took based on reading other people's reports.

Apologies if I've missed something, but I believe I read all your posts and I'm still not sure how you know what you took, 25i or otherwise. Without some objective test, or the guy who sold it to you admitting he misrepresented the product, there's simply no way to ID something so specific as 25i from comparing subjective effects/after effects from what you happen to come across online or anywhere else that seems to vaguely agree with your symptoms or confirm what you may already have suspected. Maybe you just had a bad LSD trip and you're a hypochondriac who has succumbed to the availability heuristic and confirmation bias (all common and natural)?

Read all the amazing findings of placebo studies. For example, sham acupuncture (where the needles are sunk above where they are supposed to be in the skin according to acupuncturists) is just as effective as traditional acupuncture, which has significant effects. But acupuncture also involves invasively penetrating tissue, a ritual, ancient knowledge, attentive care, etc. All these are factors that make placebos more powerful (likewise a big placebo pill is more powerful than a small one, inactive injections more so than sugar pills, sham surgeries profoundly more effective (yes, back in the good old days before ethics committees), etc).

Psychedelics are extremely powerful compounds, and we should expect an extreme degree of placebo effect associated with them, likely compounded negatively by other psychological problems for those who suffer them, even to the degree you're experiencing. "Active placebos" -- that is, drugs that study participants can feel (say amphetamine in place of LSD) but are told is some other drug and in reaction to they report they've experienced the effects and aftereffects they were told they might expect of the drug they believe they took but really didn't, are especially powerful. I believe a few of the participants who received the compound in Ritalin and were told it was psilocybin in the famous John Hopkins study had life altering mystical experiences. That's how powerful placebo effects are. What if LSD was the quasi-active placebo acting on your belief that it must have been something more sinister because you had such a bad time?

Again, sorry if I missed something along with my3rdeye in the post quoted above. It's just that if you really can't know for sure that may be really good news, as what you're experiencing could be entirely psychological (entirely recoverable). There's no reason to feel ashamed if that's true. I'm certain everybody succumbs to the same or similar effect in a huge way in some area of life. I have.

 

[Winchester77]

I'll respond to you because you sound genuinely interested in the idea. My3rdeye had too much dumb in his post (he posted on a shroomery thread i made with the same topic, but on that one he was more douchey) for me to respond to. It's called deductive reasoning, I've used the psychedelics LSD and shrooms extensively throughout my youth (from 18 to 21), and not in an irresponsible Im gonna party type of way (except maybe shrooms but only once), but a spiritual find the answers to myself and the universe type of way. I stopped using them because I had nothing left to learn.

I made a mistake when I was 23 (you can see whatever post i wrote down my story) and used shrooms and lsd to help combat the MASSIVE depression and psychological issues i was dealing with due to its therapeutic effects. LSD salvia and shrooms helped give me my life, sanity, and peace of mind back.

Bulletpoints:
The same way you ask how do you know it wasnt lsd, I ask you how do you know it was lsd?
My no longer dealer dealer says he doesnt know what the stuff i took was and wont speak more on the matter because hes, well, not a good person.
I have no problem admitting fault, shame is not something im ashamed of.
It wasnt lsd the same way a detective would know if the evidence was accurate, who the murderer in a crime scene was. Sure its possible an interdimensional space demon couldve came tore open a rift in the space time continuum and framed the suspect, but until ANY CONTRARY evidence proves otherwise I'll be smart instead of dumb.
Deductive reasoning. 25i is known to be sold as lsd, I suffered from seizures, a 15 min. duration between ingestion and the drug hitting (LSD has never hit that fast for me, EVER), my brain felt like it was on psycedelic meth as opposed to a regular, normal psychedelic like ive done numerous times before.
I had NO SUSPECT OF THIS BEING 25inbome until i did my research. SO I WOULDNT BE ABLE TO KNOW THE PLACEBO EFFECT SYMPTOMS TO SUFFER FROM BECAUSE I DIDNT KNOW THE SYMPTOMS OF 25I UNTIL I MATCHED IT UP WITH THE SYMPTOMS I HAD AFTER INGESTING THIS QUOTE UNQUOTE UNKNOWN DRUG.
The same way you ask how do you know it wasnt lsd, I ask you how do you know it was lsd? (Cause this is the only point that matters)

Brevity is always the soul of wit, but im not as smart as i used to be so i wrote all that down.

Arguing against 3rdeye would be like arguing against a christian, which is like arguing against a wall. You cant argue against a made up mind (not directed at you psoo), and it is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain an idea without fully accepting it. Ive entertained the notion it was lsd, Ive decided it doesnt fit and thats my decision.

Anyway, apologies for the anger and anyone ive offended with my words. But man, wtf.

 

[tryp2fun]

Apologies if I've missed something, but I believe I read all your posts and I'm still not sure how you know what you took, 25i or otherwise. Without some objective test, or the guy who sold it to you admitting he misrepresented the product, there's simply no way to ID something so specific as 25i from comparing subjective effects/after effects from what you happen to come across online or anywhere else that seems to vaguely agree with your symptoms or confirm what you may already have suspected. Maybe you just had a bad LSD trip and you're a hypochondriac who has succumbed to the availability heuristic and confirmation bias (all common and natural)?

Read all the amazing findings of placebo studies. For example, sham acupuncture (where the needles are sunk above where they are supposed to be in the skin according to acupuncturists) is just as effective as traditional acupuncture, which has significant effects. But acupuncture also involves invasively penetrating tissue, a ritual, ancient knowledge, attentive care, etc. All these are factors that make placebos more powerful (likewise a big placebo pill is more powerful than a small one, inactive injections more so than sugar pills, sham surgeries profoundly more effective (yes, back in the good old days before ethics committees), etc).

Psychedelics are extremely powerful compounds, and we should expect an extreme degree of placebo effect associated with them, likely compounded negatively by other psychological problems for those who suffer them, even to the degree you're experiencing. "Active placebos" -- that is, drugs that study participants can feel (say amphetamine in place of LSD) but are told is some other drug and in reaction to they report they've experienced the effects and aftereffects they were told they might expect of the drug they believe they took but really didn't, are especially powerful. I believe a few of the participants who received the compound in Ritalin and were told it was psilocybin in the famous John Hopkins study had life altering mystical experiences. That's how powerful placebo effects are. What if LSD was the quasi-active placebo acting on your belief that it must have been something more sinister because you had such a bad time?

Again, sorry if I missed something along with my3rdeye in the post quoted above. It's just that if you really can't know for sure that may be really good news, as what you're experiencing could be entirely psychological (entirely recoverable). There's no reason to feel ashamed if that's true. I'm certain everybody succumbs to the same or similar effect in a huge way in some area of life. I have.

What you are describing is not the placebo effect, it is the opposite, the nocebo effect, that is feeling a negative response from a drug because you have heard about possible bad side effects. The nocebo effect is actually stronger than the placebo effect. However, in this case it's possible that a mini-stroke (temporary ischemia), possibly due to vasoconstriction, caused the blackout and the lingering minor motor problems. Those have no permanent effects.

 

[Bluuberry]

I haven't read this whole thread but wanted to say.. I've experienced loss of the ability to articulate myself verbally, in the moment, from various binges on different things. In my experience it always came back after I returned to healthy lifestyle. Extra hydration, electrolytes, trace minerals, exercise, whole foods. 100% carrot juice to detox always helps me after psych experiences where I've gone too far. Also coconut water every day until you feel normal. I know it sounds silly but I live in a place where people binge on crazy shit all the time and everyone agrees anecdotally that coconut water helps recovery, for whatever reason. Guessing it's the electrolytes being in a form your body can easily uptake. Hope you feel better soon, and remember that like others said, you can heal from this it might just take a while. Nourish your body mind and soul.

Also I live in the land of milk and honey as far as LSD is concerned and using a testing kit i still find more than 50% of samples I test for people are fakes. So I think due to the duration, comeup, and effects, its clear that you didnt take LSD. I'm not sure if you took 25i but its very likely . We arent supposed to id mystery substances here so I'll stop. But I'm going to say that I think you are probably on the right track with assuming it was 25i. Everything you said is consistent with other peoples experiences with it. And sugar cubes are notoriously bunk these days, it's too easy to load ANY kind of RC onto them. The sugar covers up the bitter taste of things like 25I. You can't even test sugar cubes or gel tabs with Ehrlichs which makes me suspicious to begin with. I'll probably never take anything other than paper or liquid that I tested myself with Ehrlichs.

 

[Winchester77]

Good info dude. The coconut water thing is a big help, thinking about it even makes me feel healthier. Thanks for the insight it's good to hear those who've stretched their minds found their way back, makes me feel more appreciative for my situation.

Yeah I dont have too many lsd trips left in my life but ive already gone the erlich testing route. I'd be insane not to. Its just a weird time in the drug world when I have to test for the authenticity of lsd. Dangerous and dirty, damn bastards.

 

[Winchester77]

Hey thanks for the feedback again solips. Im getting my bloodwork done to make sure Im healthy, and I will take an extended break from psychedelics (I think 2 months) due to alot of things you mentioned and the condition my minds in right now. Im definitely getting better but everythings still "rattley," so Ill play it safe. Im learning piano songs and doing daily arithmetic problems which help significantly, anyone who's having similar problems those two activities i think are definitely making a beneficial difference.

 

[psood0nym]

I'll respond to you because you sound genuinely interested in the idea. My3rdeye had too much dumb in his post (he posted on a shroomery thread i made with the same topic, but on that one he was more douchey) for me to respond to. It's called deductive reasoning, I've used the psychedelics LSD and shrooms extensively throughout my youth (from 18 to 21), and not in an irresponsible Im gonna party type of way (except maybe shrooms but only once), but a spiritual find the answers to myself and the universe type of way. I stopped using them because I had nothing left to learn.

I made a mistake when I was 23 (you can see whatever post i wrote down my story) and used shrooms and lsd to help combat the MASSIVE depression and psychological issues i was dealing with due to its therapeutic effects. LSD salvia and shrooms helped give me my life, sanity, and peace of mind back.

Bulletpoints:
The same way you ask how do you know it wasnt lsd, I ask you how do you know it was lsd?
My no longer dealer dealer says he doesnt know what the stuff i took was and wont speak more on the matter because hes, well, not a good person.
I have no problem admitting fault, shame is not something im ashamed of.
It wasnt lsd the same way a detective would know if the evidence was accurate, who the murderer in a crime scene was. Sure its possible an interdimensional space demon couldve came tore open a rift in the space time continuum and framed the suspect, but until ANY CONTRARY evidence proves otherwise I'll be smart instead of dumb.
Deductive reasoning. 25i is known to be sold as lsd, I suffered from seizures, a 15 min. duration between ingestion and the drug hitting (LSD has never hit that fast for me, EVER), my brain felt like it was on psycedelic meth as opposed to a regular, normal psychedelic like ive done numerous times before.
I had NO SUSPECT OF THIS BEING 25inbome until i did my research. SO I WOULDNT BE ABLE TO KNOW THE PLACEBO EFFECT SYMPTOMS TO SUFFER FROM BECAUSE I DIDNT KNOW THE SYMPTOMS OF 25I UNTIL I MATCHED IT UP WITH THE SYMPTOMS I HAD AFTER INGESTING THIS QUOTE UNQUOTE UNKNOWN DRUG.
The same way you ask how do you know it wasnt lsd, I ask you how do you know it was lsd? (Cause this is the only point that matters)

Brevity is always the soul of wit, but im not as smart as i used to be so i wrote all that down.

Arguing against 3rdeye would be like arguing against a christian, which is like arguing against a wall. You cant argue against a made up mind (not directed at you psoo), and it is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain an idea without fully accepting it. Ive entertained the notion it was lsd, Ive decided it doesnt fit and thats my decision.

Anyway, apologies for the anger and anyone ive offended with my words. But man, wtf.

I hear what you're saying. 25i is admittedly a good guess but so is 25c, any of the other NBxx, etc. I posted what I did because you seem to be leaning that direction yourself, at least with respect to parts of lingering issues. Also, it's much better if it is all in the head than due to the inevitable repercussions of chemically induced brain damage, right? Thinking about it that way could speed recovery.

I've personally intramuscularly injected 4mg of 25c over many hours to no ill effects (no seizures, no problematic vasoconstriction). I did similarly with 25i, though not nearly so much. Those posts are up in the early days of the big and dandy 25C thread. I was testing the strength of my tolerance response (clearly huge). As I recall I started with 300 mics, moved quickly to 1mg and then encountered extremely diminishing returns as I attempted to ramp up effects. I'd do a little, wait to see what happens, then do a little more. I've also been alarmed to see visuals swirling around me within minutes of administering 1mg of 25C via a liquid intranasal injection when I had no tolerance. The nbomes seem to rapidly induce a profoundly strong 5HT2a tolerance and it's not totally clear what the time frames and dose response curves are, and all that may vary wildly by individual. They are indeed asking for trouble in the context of the wider drug culture, I've said as much in the past and I've not used them much since (though I probably will get curious eventually).

It's all pretty strange and unpredictable. Best of luck to you Winchester77.

 

[Winchester77]

Its true it would be better but at the same time I cant be ignorant to the situation. Facing these issues head on is more my style, I think if I didnt it would lead to more paranoia and festered thoughts not knowing what Im up against. Again sorry if there was outburst in thay post, the whole experiece really sucked and it gets to me when people try to dismantle it, though I realize now you were giving perspective more than anything.

Crazy times, yeah glad you were fine taking your stuff. I read somewhere 25i is like the russian roulette of drugs. The effects vary and it blows my mind that people actively seek it but I do get it. Plus I took more than one should cause I thought they were half hits of lsd.

Anyway thanks for the luck, Ill do my best.

 

[phyrexia]

Your story sounds similar to what I experienced three years ago. I posted about it to this thread: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/738004-LSD-Causing-Trip-Killing-Leg-Spasms, you might want to check it out, one person also talks about motor issues. It's been almost three years and I'm still experiencing fasciculations daily. I've visited a doctor on the matter, and she said (after consulting a neurologist) that my symptoms don't indicate any serious neurological condition, taking into account that my symptoms have remained stable, and not progressed into something more severe. The official diagnosis says simply "myokymia". Sometimes I think of booking a visit to some different neurologist, but I think it would be just waste of money, because most likely there isn't anything that can be done.

I don't experience the motor symptoms you are describing, even though I tend to make typos slightly more often when I write. This might be just anxiety/stress related, because there are days when I can write almost flawlessy. Among the fasciculations the biggest problem after the trip was the huge anxiety that lasted for almost over a year. Only after being anxiety free for few monts I started to realize how tremendous impact it can have on concentration, memory and other cognitive functions. I also slept very poorly during that period, worsening the congnitive functions even further. I'd say that I'm currently back to the baseline mentally, but I have nowadays greater tendency to become depressed.

The cognitive issues I had after the experience sound similar to yours. Feeling of "emptiness" inside my mind, trouble verbalizing thoughts, overall feelign of being dumber etc. All of these issues were most prominent in "real time" situations, such as social interaction. It's hard to say whether those symptoms were caused by CNS damage inflicted by the drug, or were just psychological, but they started to greatly improve approximately one year after the trip when my anxiety began to fade.

My advice to you would be to try not to worry, even though it can feel impossible (speaking from experience), and to give yourself time. I'm sure your symptoms will improve, and if there's any serious neurological thing going on, it will be very likely catched by the medical personnel.