2-methyl 3-phenyl 8-methyl-8-azabicyclo[3.2.1]octane-2,3-dicarboxylate

[Tryptamite]

Anyone care to shed some light on this? it bears a resemblance to troparil and seems it is being marketed as a cocaine analouge. Very little info available online.

2-methyl 3-phenyl 8-methyl-8-azabicyclo[3.2.1]octane-2,3-dicarboxylate

Troparil

Methyl 8-methyl-3-phenyl-8-azabicyclo[3.2.1]octane-2-carboxylate

 

[Solipsis]

Well speaking of the upper compound, it is cocaine with the ester function (the lower double oxygen part - the oxygens being the red O's) reversed.

I'm not sure if that abolishes the local anaesthetic action which gives cocaine its cardiotoxicity, but it very well might since it is not a benzyl aminoester anymore like typical local anaesthetics are.
If this is true, that would be something it has in common with troparil which also has cocaine's stimulant aspect without the toxic local anaesthesia aspect.

However based on the binding modeling of CFT it does seem to me like the ester function of cocaine is not really actively involved in any DAT binding, so its reversal does not immediately strike me as something that should drastically change its binding and its action.

As to whether the drug is any good I cannot comment based on the structure alone. Also, I'm not a pharmacology expert or anything.

 

[sekio]

Like soli said this is a reversed ester of cocaine. Unfortunately for us it looks like they picked the "wrong" ester to reverse, IMO. It would have been a smarter idea to change the carbomethoxy to an acetoxy, rather than a benzoyl to a phenoxycarbonyl. (Big words!) I don't think esters of phenol are very stable in the presence of water, due to phenol's rather high acidity for an alcohol compared to ecognine/tropine, so this compound will probably degrade very rapidly, sort of like cocaine but faster, if it is stored anywhere with even a trace of moisture or acidity.

Somehow I doubt this is commercially availiable, especially as one pure isomer...

 

[SeenSoFar]

I just saw this for the first time a few days ago. It is being 'marketed' by a well-rated company. I'm not going to give the name they're marketing it under for obvious reasons. On one hand, the company offering it is known as one of the better ones, although as I don't deal with such vendors I have no direct experience to comment on, so that is something going in its favour. On the other hand, the synthesis is probably quite complex, and if the 'availability' of past cocaine analogues has shown us anything, its that there is at least a good chance that anyone ordering this will receive some garbage cathinone/ pyrrolidinoalkylphenone that the lab contracted to synth it wanted to unload for a quick profit. I can hope it turns out well, as such a product might be interesting, but, like sekio, I have serious doubts that the compound being sold is genuine...

EDIT: Apparently from some new info I have on it, the compound being sold is the racemate. I wonder how that will change the effects profile, if there is any recreational effects from this at all...

 

[mad_scientist]

Reverse esters generally mimic the effects of the parent drug, see e.g. pethidine vs desmethylprodine, methylphenidate vs phacetoperane. So it is pretty likely this compound would be active if it were the pure active isomer, with potency probably similar to that of cocaine. It is an interesting question whether the reversal of the ester would reduce the local anesthetic effect, if so then this might be less cardiotoxic than cocaine. Also the phenol ester may well last long enough to show reasonable activity, compare to RTI-120 for instance.

However if the material being sold is the racemate then it will probably be quite weak, cocaine has a lot of stereocenters so there will likely only be a small proportion of the active isomer present, and certainly with the phenyltropane compounds racemic material is much weaker than the pure active isomer, as the "wrong" enantiomers seem to partially block the effects of the active one. Also it is worth noting that this compound will be illegal in many countries as it is a structural isomer of cocaine.

 

[Tryptamite]

However if the material being sold is the racemate then it will probably be quite weak, cocaine has a lot of stereocenters so there will likely only be a small proportion of the active isomer present, and certainly with the phenyltropane compounds racemic material is much weaker than the pure active isomer, as the "wrong" enantiomers seem to partially block the effects of the active one. Also it is worth noting that this compound will be illegal in many countries as it is a structural isomer of cocaine.

This is unfortunate. If the racemate simply required more of the compound to produce the same effect it wouldnt be a problem, but the "wrong" enantiomers as you say blocking the effects of the active one could render the drug almost useless.

How difficult is it to separate enantiomers of a cocaine-like molecule. Am I right in thinking that there are four in total?

 

[THCified]

^ I received a sample of said Chemical, but (as said in another Thread) i don't run into untested waters, simply as i don't wanna end up, well dead (or something like that)!

Furthermore i don't think that stuff will do much for me atm, since i recently consumed MDPV hence having a way too high tolerance that given amount would do anything, especially if it's guessed to be somewhat weak (and if it's really even less weak than Coke itself, oh my...)!

 

[Munroe]

This isnt ADD material but it's relevant to the thread I suppose:

Am I correct in thinking this stuff will be broken down as easily as cocaine when taken orally or does the modification make it more resilient? I've gradually worked my way up to 50mg insufflated with few effects other than mild stimulation & appetite loss (and slightly numb front teeth).

 

[Solipsis]

Oops. The numb front teeth are not really great for that hypothesis of abolished cardiotoxicity.

My guess would be that the modification does not help with oral availability, no. But officially I don't think we do guessing here.

 

[blueberries]

I've tried this compound a fair bit. It's potency is a little higher than some fairly pure cocaine I had recently (came straight from Peru) (5-10mg lines with REC, instead of 10-15mg lines with high purity cocaine), so if I had to guess it would be slightly higher or lower than pharmaceutical cocaine (however I've never tried this so I can't compare). Also it lasts a lot longer, maybe 2-3 hours. Effects are practically identical to cocaine, however it's not as much of a local anaesthetic as cocaine but still there is a fair amount of activity there (this could be due to it lacking tropane additives such as benzocaine or lidocaine).

I have to say it's a real winner. Also it seems there is less of a want to redose like cocaine, not just because of the longer duration but the next day I feel no need to have some more, unlike cocaine which makes me do more and more until the bag is finished. I have to say though, I'd need someone to back me up with these claims as it's been a bit of a whirlwind (personal events over the last few days) since I got it. Also this is with absolutely no tolerance to cocaine, apart from the two days before I received it with the Peruvian stuff.

However I'll keep researching (I didn't say there wasn't an urge to dose again but just a little lower than coke!!) and see what else I can find but for now I'd say this is one of my favourite stimulants and blows cocaine out of the water (simply due to the longer duration).

 

[THCified]

Fine... someone with information about this! Sounds good, so i'll test it asap and report back!

 

[sekio]

Somehow I don't buy it. Racemic analogs of normally enantiopure cocaine shouldn't be twice as potent as coke.

Holding out for NMR, MS, and polarimetry readings... fuck even a TLC plate...

 

[SeenSoFar]

Somehow I don't buy it. Racemic analogs of normally enantiopure cocaine shouldn't be twice as potent as coke.

Holding out for NMR, MS, and polarimetry readings... fuck even a TLC plate...

Seconded.

For some reason that report is making me think of some other stimulant with a local anaesthetic added... I'm hoping for it to be true but I can't help but be sceptical...

 

[clubcard]

The inter action of the O lone-pairs & the N lone-pairs and a hydrophobic pocket (the benzene ring) is the requirement for high potency. If the methyl ester (or bioisostere) is removed, potency goes down to about 30% of the parent.

The RTI examples show that one one of those oxygens isn't even a requirement (the benzylic). Analogues in which the methyl ester is replaced with a ketone show identical potency (the propanone was nearest biosteric shape and was most active i.e. equal to C).

It's the fact that the 'body' of cocaine is a piperidine & azepine ring sharing the nitrogen and 2 carbons of each ring.

There is some free software called HypoGen used in most current university departments where 20-40 examples of different drugs that have the same effect & it produces a 3DQSAR. It's also compatible with discovery studio.

 

[Tryptamite]

What would IV administration be like?

 

[blueberries]

EDIT: Apparently from some new info I have on it, the compound being sold is the racemate. I wonder how that will change the effects profile, if there is any recreational effects from this at all...

I'd like to know how you found out it is the racemate? Emailing the owners (for me) has been abolutely worthless, they never seem to answer my emails, which makes me think that this claim is a rumour.

However, having said that, normal cocaine is fairly clumpy whereas this product is a fine crystal. This is probably due to oils and extra alkaloidal content in normal cocaine though.

Also the picture they have on the website clearly shows the R enantiomer, not the S enantiomer isomer, and from personal knowledge I can tell you, it's definitely more potent than normal cocaine, the crystals alone, in comparison to coke, show this, as a similar amount of cocaine (unweighed) would have a much higher mass than the reverse ester, again, due to the leftover oils present in extracted cocaine. It's like comparing eyeballed crystal MDMA to powdered MDMA.

Also if it is another compound mixed with a local anaesthetic; the anaesthetic is too weak to feel and that other compound is absolutely incredible and I think we would have heard more about it by now. I vaguely remember someone saying 4-FMC is very similar to cocaine but the dosage is a lot higher. It could also be RTI-126, as it's most similar to cocaine and 5x the potency but it has a very short duration of action, unlike this compound.

From the MSDS, it shows a molecular weight of 303.14g/mol and cocaine is 303.356g/mol so I had a quick google and found that there isn't much besides REC that holds that weight. Then again, could they just be making it up?

 

[sekio]

could they just be making it up?

Absolutely.

as a similar amount of cocaine (unweighed) would have a much higher mass than the reverse ester, again, due to the leftover oils present in extracted cocaine. It's like comparing eyeballed crystal MDMA to powdered MDMA.

What? Either you have quality cocaine or you don't, there's no "oils" left in the good shit! And crystals versus powder doesn't mean anything.

I seriously doubt it's any of the RTI series either; as they all need cocaine as a precursor.

 

[bodevelho]

blueberries thanks for your report! have you tried doses higher then 15mg ? how did it went? when you put it in the tongue does it have the same numbing effect as cocaine? And the smell is it also similar ?


I will probably receive my 1g sample this week.. And I also got some medium/high purity cocaine from holland.. so it will be fun to compare them both : )

 

[black53]

anyone else try it?

 

[blueberries]

blueberries thanks for your report! have you tried doses higher then 15mg ? how did it went? when you put it in the tongue does it have the same numbing effect as cocaine? And the smell is it also similar ?

I tried a 15-20mg dose at about 4pm today and I think I'm down now as I lost all interest in some research I was doing maybe an hour ago, gonna redose at 20mg now though and report back soon. Also just put some under the tongue and only very mild numbing, nothing like cocaine. Also I'd tell you the smell but it's been in my box next to this really smelly weed so all I smell is the weed. Again, I'll keep it out of the box for a while and report back with the smell.

EDIT: I did 25mg instead and I'm rushing my tits off! Mixing it with beer too, so I'll have to be careful but I've only had ~150ml so not too much. Smells a bit oily but i can also still smell the weed on it. I'm off to get cigs so we'll see if the weed smell is gone after.