17th Issue General Heroin Discussion v. Perfect Day

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Yup.. those formats are way different. I like the older one as well.
Anyway, I have the Android Galaxy S3 Mini... Never was a fan of the Iphone.
Androids are more for PC literate people whereas iphones & that jazz is for mac users & people who aren't used to PC's and new tech.
Read that in an article. lol

Plus.. you can customize how your SMS screen looks on the android. without downloading any stupid apps.
 
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I've always loved the iPhone. I TRIED to make a switch to Droid just a few months back but ended up buying the new iPhone instead. had the droid for a week and took it back. I dont use the phone for much aside from music, text and calls. apps are really not my thing aside from checking a FB update or using Waze (best FREE GPS). SOMETIMES ill check the internet for SOMETHING but mainly just what I mentioned there. and once in a while ill check the bank account (when im not using EVERYDAY I dont have to check it EVERYDAY like I once did). actually, I tried to stay away from it but it always made me depressed but I had to check to see how far I could push before going negative. BOA would ONLY let me go negative once, so I always wanted to take them for the full $600. I hated when I would only be overdrawn by $2 and it would hold me to that. I'd think of all the dope I was missing; so I kept an eye on that fucker and made sure I got my full $600 overdraft. well, usually like -$597.24 ha.
 
^The thing that gets me about rehabs, especially the last one I went to....Well I ended up in an "extended care" program after the primary Rehab rehab, but the primary 28 day rehab...

What got me about that place....The staff there, which outnumbered the patients, acted like they had all the answers to everything, like they had the whole recovery thing down to a science....They all wore suits, and they all had degrees in psychology and Substance abuse. They acted like they knew more about you than you did, and they really seemed to believe that staying off drugs was an exact science, that they were experts in the field.

And that's just fucking ridiculous, because nobody knows who's gonna relapse when they walk out the door, and staying clean is different for everyone! The groups this place had were ridiculous...Some of them we had to memorize acronyms that stood for the steps we'd go through when certain situation arose in "real life"....

Stuff like: When you end up in an argument with someone, always remember "SNAKE"

S- stay away from the person
N- never raise your voice
A-Always take a deep breath
K-Kill them with kindness
E-End the conflict peacefully

HA, I just made that up off the top of my head, but they literally had groups like that everyday, with like 6 different acronyms you were supposed to memorize! And then they made you do homework! You're in an inpatient rehab going to groups 12 hours a day, and then at night you have to do homework?! Writing out how you'd deal with imaginary scenarios using acronyms?! It was just fucking ridiculous!

So for all their arrogance, suits and ties and fancy degrees, the best thing this place could come up with was:

Go to 12 step meetings...and use fucking acronyms!

No matter where you go or what you do, if you don't want to quit, you won't! If you're done, you're done!

And the way some of these places call you out and try to push your buttons pisses me off too! Half of them it all just becomes this thing where everyone is promising and swearing to God that they'll go to meetings when they leave! "YES! YES, I'm a horrible addict and I can't EVER hang out with my old friends, or EVER go back to the old people, places and things! I'll go to AA every day for foreseeable future, I swear!"....And literally the whole thing becomes bullshit...God forbid you should ever even passively question the 12 steps or try to say you think you'll "be okay" when you leave, you'll get crucified!

You couldn't really get much further from science than the methods they use in most rehabs....Sure, you can have lectures about what drugs and alcohol do to the brain, and tell everyone that their brains need to heal, but that really has nothing to do with "staying clean"!
 
^^ could not agree more. I love seeing/hearing these fools in rehab; talking about ways of life they DO NOT understand and have NEVER LIVED! education only goes so far, man. I want a true junkie who has survived the streets and has been down that road to tell me the way. or at least listen to my story and have a better understanding of what I am going through; rather than a Dr. who MAY have HEARD a similar story and thats how he TRIES to relate, but there is NO RELATION! I ALMOST picked up a degree in psych and I can see the relation to some degree, but until you ARE a user yourself, you have no idea what the game/addiction is really like.
 
The other thing was, every time we'd joke around, someone would come up with this frown on their face and be like, "You guys aren't taking this seriously! This is life and death! Go sit in a corner and read the Big Book!

And it's like...I'm here in residential rehab, I feel like shit, laughing at shit is the only thing making me feel better!...Nobody understands better than us how "serious" this is...but what are we supposed to do, walk around focusing on all the negative shit we've seen and done, worrying about what might happen if we do it again?!

When I got off everything, my sense of humor came back with a vengeance, it's kind of dull again now, but that's what the suboxone does to me...The thing that will really keep you clean is having something else to do, whether it's working on cars, playing guitar, playing video games, laughing and acting ridiculous....you can only spend so much time focusing on "staying clean", but if "staying clean" is the only thing you've got, you're probably gonna go back to getting high!
 
thats why I work at my boys tattoo joint for free, basically. yes, I get free tats and my body is basically covered but there is always more work to do. but I kill my time there rather than kill myself at home. even on 4MG bupe I still feel happy-go-lucky-whacky type. but KEY is killing time. I think that is what a lot of us USE/USED for. we get bored, we have nothing to do, we think of something exciting and nothing comes to mind, but we always remember that opiate RUSH. well, it's Sunday and I have 10k in my bank account and NOTHING to do; what's on my mind!? DOPE! ha. but right away I run to the tat shop and work the desk, do my drawings, help people out, etc. I can tattoo but you wouldnt want work from me; I've only done it for a year or so many years back, and everyone else in there is good, so I am useless, but I still draw and design.

I was stupid enough tho to get a rig tattood on my back and getting shot into the eye of a skull! that was fun. so ill always remember rigs/pins/needles, whatever your fav word is.
 
F that, what is the point of getting clean when your life is still being consumed and revolving around the fact that you have problems with drug addiction? I almost feel bad for people who get clean and then commit most of their valuable free time to AA/NA meetings and other activities that focus on their sobriety. Its like a lot of those people really have nothing else to hang their hat on, which leads to them obsessing over their sobriety and shaping their world around it. From a logical perspective it seems like an unhealthy way to deal with one self's addiction.

And all the idiots with a degree in some behavioral science view addicts like animals of a lower order than humans, insisting they must stay confined to their cages to resist the temptations of drug use.
 
I agree about wrapping yourself up in the AA/NA shit; but not picking up a hobby, or using your FREE TIME to do something other than use. but yes, free time to go to AA/NA is nothing I would consider; thats time WASTED and BAD THOUGHTS of a past life.
 
It just is ridiculous to me all the people out there who act like recovery from drug/alc abuse is some linear process and requires certain "steps". I also will never lower myself to the mentality that I am powerless to my addiction and a spiritual higher power is my only hope.... such nonsense.
 
Stuff like: When you end up in an argument with someone, always remember "SNAKE"

S- stay away from the person
N- never raise your voice
A-Always take a deep breath
K-Kill them with kindness
E-End the conflict peacefully

HA, I just made that up off the top of my head, but they literally had groups like that everyday, with like 6 different acronyms you were supposed to memorize! And then they made you do homework! You're in an inpatient rehab going to groups 12 hours a day, and then at night you have to do homework?! Writing out how you'd deal with imaginary scenarios using acronyms?! It was just fucking ridiculous!

The acronym that we used in my outpatient rehab was "halt."

  • Hungry
  • Angry
  • Lonely
  • Tired

It just meant that those are the main feelings that may trigger a relapse, so you should address them before doing anything else.
 
^Thats Avery common one used in AA all the time, this rehab had all these really long ridiculous ones that you were supposed to memorize...

I don't hate the 12 steps or AA, and if you really need someone to talk to, they can be very helpful, and a lot of it actually makes sense. Its more the whole "recovery industry" that I dislike. They basically throw a little psychology on top of a 12 step philosophy, and then just basically cash in on peoples misery!

You can go to 12 step meetings for free and its the same thing! All rehab does for me is keep me locked away so that I can't get high, which is helpful for sure sometimes! But the amount of money most of them charge is downright outrageous!
 
The acronym that we used in my outpatient rehab was "halt."

  • Hungry
  • Angry
  • Lonely
  • Tired

It just meant that those are the main feelings that may trigger a relapse, so you should address them before doing anything else.

I've heard that many times as well. Which is weird because I don't think I ever relapsed on dope because I was hungry.. Hah.
 
It really is baffling that people spend tens of thousands of dollars on a rehab that just tells you to attend free group meetings in your community. Profit off of the fears of parents!

I see it like this. We've all felt incomplete, imperfect, inadequate, etc. Drugs make us feel happier and like better extensions of ourselves. We also may use people to make us feel better, even if this leads to terrible relationships. We crave that (temporary) improvement, but due to it's temporary nature, we have to keep chasing it, and this endless loop of chasing and chasing leads to extreme suffering, and when we break out, we're no better than when we started.

So we go to rehab and we are actually told that we are powerless, weak, have a disease, etc. We are then told that we need a higher-power, greater than ourselves, that we need to do this checklist of things, that we need to depend on these people. Okay....but a lot of other people suck and let me down, and the higher-power leads me only to intellectual confusion. So the behavioural patterns - looking external to yourself to try and find people or things to make you better, and that you depend on to sustain your recovery - are all the same. It's no longer illegal drugs, but it's still setting yourself up for the shame that is an endless quest for temporary betterment of yourself. The dope may not have you anymore, but the recovery people do!

Last time I was in IOP, I actually walked out of a session after telling everyone that my inner power was my higher power, and that every single thing that has ever happened to me was my fault, but also that everything that could happen in the future would start from right inside of me. God does not work in mysterious ways. God isn't going to make sure that everything is okay. Things are BAD and the only way out is not giving into the bullshit that we are told in recovery. That the real leap of faith isn't trusting others or God, but to actually understand that you don't have to supress an addictive personality or an intelligence that craves expansion and pleasure, but you just have to transform your desires to things that don't fuck your life up like certain drugs. The leap of faith is that unlike what they tell you in recovery, you can go from a weak person to a strong person just looking inside of yourself and not reading any books or attending any meetings. Obviously everyone in the room looked at me with shock and the facilitator immediately was like "don't listen to Redleader..."

But ya, dealers, cops, rehab people...they all want to take advantage of you for their own gain. They also feel incomplete and want to take your money or your dignity to try and improve themselves. They are chasing the exact same type of thing. Getting out of the darkness is realising that this is the exact nature of the many of the problems in society and that once you figure it out and absolutely own it, you suddenly are one of the most powerful people in society and you see yourself as a leader who cannot be manipulated. You fix your life if you don't like where it took you just by not allowing anyone to control anything about your life at all. Especially the recovery people. You reclaim the idea that you are the most powerful thing in the universe that you know. Recovery people, the facilitators, the people in the groups (you know them...the ones that sit there with dumb looks like slaves wanting to do what they are told) suddenly become the biggest display of fear and recycled garbage ever. It's no way for a free, intelligent being to live.

</rant> But I despise recovery people in general.
 
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^nice

I bet after you left that session they all sat around talking about how foolish you were and other nonsense to justify all their actions and make themselves feel better by putting your beliefs down. It would all be a little more tolerable (but still not something I would get into) if they were more understanding of people who think differently about how they will deal with trying to stay sober. There seems to be so little tolerance for individualistic thinking, and it seems there are very limited options to find a similar service to AA/NA, but one that does not follow their strict beliefs.
 
It really is baffling that people spend tens of thousands of dollars on a rehab that just tells you to attend free group meetings in your community. Profit off of the fears of parents!

I see it like this. We've all felt incomplete, imperfect, inadequate, etc. Drugs make us feel happier and like better extensions of ourselves. We also may use people to make us feel better, even if this leads to terrible relationships. We crave that (temporary) improvement, but due to it's temporary nature, we have to keep chasing it, and this endless loop of chasing and chasing leads to extreme suffering, and when we break out, we're no better than when we started.

So we go to rehab and we are actually told that we are powerless, weak, have a disease, etc. We are then told that we need a higher-power, greater than ourselves, that we need to do this checklist of things, that we need to depend on these people. Okay....but a lot of other people suck and let me down, and the higher-power leads me only to intellectual confusion. So the behavioural patterns - looking external to yourself to try and find people or things to make you better, and that you depend on to sustain your recovery - are all the same. It's no longer illegal drugs, but it's still setting yourself up for the shame that is an endless quest for temporary betterment of yourself. The dope may not have you anymore, but the recovery people do!

Last time I was in IOP, I actually walked out of a session after telling everyone that my inner power was my higher power, and that every single thing that has ever happened to me was my fault, but also that everything that could happen in the future would start from right inside of me. God does not work in mysterious ways. God isn't going to make sure that everything is okay. Things are BAD and the only way out is not giving into the bullshit that we are told in recovery. That the real leap of faith isn't trusting others or God, but to actually understand that you don't have to supress an addictive personality or an intelligence that craves expansion and pleasure, but you just have to transform your desires to things that don't fuck your life up like certain drugs. The leap of faith is that unlike what they tell you in recovery, you can go from a weak person to a strong person just looking inside of yourself and not reading any books or attending any meetings. Obviously everyone in the room looked at me with shock and the facilitator immediately was like "don't listen to Redleader..."

But ya, dealers, cops, rehab people...they all want to take advantage of you for their own gain. They also feel incomplete and want to take your money or your dignity to try and improve themselves. They are chasing the exact same type of thing. Getting out of the darkness is realising that this is the exact nature of the many of the problems in society and that once you figure it out and absolutely own it, you suddenly are one of the most powerful people in society and you see yourself as a leader who cannot be manipulated. You fix your life if you don't like where it took you just by not allowing anyone to control anything about your life at all. Especially the recovery people. You reclaim the idea that you are the most powerful thing in the universe that you know. Recovery people, the facilitators, the people in the groups (you know them...the ones that sit there with dumb looks like slaves wanting to do what they are told) suddenly become the biggest display of fear and recycled garbage ever. It's no way for a free, intelligent being to live.

</rant> But I despise recovery people in general.

this is EXACTLY how I see it. not sure if I am the whacky one or what!? but I could not agree more. legit, SPOT ON, how I see this whole "addiction" thing. it's just us WANTING to do the drug and DECIDING FOR OURSELVES to the drug.

is withdrawal bad and exist!? yes! will it kill you!? no. can you sit through it?! yes, you can. so dont pretend as if that is part of the many reasons why; sure, you may not want to be feeling sick/tired for 5-7 days and then 2-3 weeks after; but a month or two in you'll feel better than ever. can we do it? yes, if we truly wanted to. but what do I do instead? I take bupe because it's an easier way out and gives me that NEED feeling that I want to fill.

Sick thoughts but yes, I agree. Everything is responsible for themselves and their own decision making; unless youre mentally retarded.
 
random question here: how old is everyone in this discussion? talking about THIS ONE, not board in general, so no need to start a new post. just wondering how long people been in the junk scene for and age.

31 here. been in the game since 16 selling E, K, etc. Then moved to 80's around 20/21 - dope later 20's. birthday was past november. last OD was August. 5 months clean and the 2 slips ups this past month but been clean another 9 days. started on 24MG bupe 6 months back in a psych ward after coming off that OD. down to 4-6MG daily (at 4MG now but if not feeling great will take 2MG at night). going to see the Dr. today; he still has me scripted as if I am talking 16MG daily; today we are moving down to 12MG's but reality is I'm at 4MG's. I like to be far ahead in this case; never know how things change; although, I do PLAN on things be "normal". ha.

nice to meet you guys. it's already been 6 months. on this board, jesus.
 
is withdrawal bad and exist!? yes! will it kill you!? no. can you sit through it?! yes, you can. so dont pretend as if that is part of the many reasons why; sure, you may not want to be feeling sick/tired for 5-7 days and then 2-3 weeks after; but a month or two in you'll feel better than ever. can we do it? yes, if we truly wanted to. but what do I do instead? I take bupe because it's an easier way out and gives me that NEED feeling that I want to fill.

Fear of inadequacy, incompleteness, imperfection, inferiority, etc is what sucks you in. Fear of withdrawal, fear of loss-of-pleasure is what keeps you locked in. The common theme is fear motivating your life.

"The only real prison is fear, and the only real freedom is freedom from fear."

So the only way to get out of the loop of suffering is to attack fear on a very primitive level. Recovery/AA/NA teaches you nothing about this. They want people to be driven by fear of consequences ("make a list of what will happen if you use!" "Jail sucked, right?" "You are powerless with your disease."). Go to meetings and even the people with 20 years look terrified. "Dry drunk" isn't someone who is angry or whatever, it is an addict who is only sober because the sources of fear have changed.

Lift heavy weights, have threesomes with attractive females, smoke weed, eat mushrooms, travel, listen to death metal at 6am...this is how you live without fear. Not sitting in meetings and clapping when people get chips and hugging when people saw God in a sign along the highway that morning.

Again, this is all just my opinion, and I'll likely relapse within the next year (ugh, but just being honest...it has me by the testicles too). But I like to at least enjoy the times away from it just as much.
 
^^

Yeah the fear of withdrawal, sobriety, dealing with emotions, etc, are all deep components to addiction.
 
Am I in the discussion? 18 I had an OD on New Year's Eve of 2012 and had another October of that year.
 
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