12 days clean and just texted my dealer....

[JessFR]

Well, speaking of myself. I wouldn't say that I feel like they complete me in that kind of sense.

Id describe my relationship with heroin as less like that heroin completes me, and more like heroin is like a partner. A very possessive partner. Very loving and supportive when you're with them, but abusive whenever you're not. A partner that can't tolerate sharing you with anyone or anything else.

And getting away from them is bitter sweet. You don't miss the abuse or possessiveness. But you miss the support and safety you felt with them during the good times.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

@GetMeOutOfThisCRAP and @JessFR I like your metaphors and I'll add one I call piece of the puzzle

I tried a large variety of drugs over the years before I settled on d-amp and m-amp as my DOC. It seems to me that I always felt an important piece of me was missing or unknowable and I had trouble being genuine self and feeling my genuine feelings and I always felt a bit lost. However, and no douby related to my ADHD diagnosis, these drugs seem to close the loop and complete my sense of self. Each time they hit I pretty much say " ah there you are Atelier, nice to see you again, where have you been hiding". It's like a reunion. All the missing or disconnected bits of my mind just feel like they have slipped into the correct place.

The problem with giving up these drugs, which I would of course like to do and sooner rather than later, is that I feel I'll be watching my whole self disappear into the abyss like Leonardo di Caprio in that Titanic scene - never to be found again.

I always wondered if people on opiates had a similar kind of feeling?

I actually have two addictions--the one that you mentioned and adderall. I will NEVER do meth, hence probably why adderall is so appealing to me while everyone else is snorting crystal. I do not judge however and to each their own! I'm just afraid of it's neurotoxic properties, potency, and the overwhelming possibility of completely losing your sanity from sleep depravation. Not to mention I'm vain and meth does tend to deteriorate one's looks here and there. I'm also in an area where meth is seen as the lowest of the low substance one can possibly take (NYC is not big on it like the middle of the country it seems).

I find adderall to be more like an occasional thrill despite liking both opioids and Pharma amphetamines equally. I take a couple and please the cravings, so the voices go away and then call it a day. I usually only take adderall 2-3 days in a row maximum--and not the highest amounts or anything but maybe 80-100mgs or so (enough to obviously be recreational). I can't explain my use patterns or why I find adderall to no longer be appealing after the third day (something about the mechanics of how it releases dopamine makes the diminishing returns from adderall include paranoia and self-loathing). On adderall, I actually do not find the substance to complete me or make me whole. It's more like it serves as a stress-reliever and euphoriant. It's purely hedonistic and for pleasure. However it is a great anti-depressant for me and I struggle with (not depression) but general ahedonia even without substances. Adderall helps me feel appreciative of life and content with everything about it.

Opiates deliver in actuality a similar feeling from the "up" of adderall, but something about the cravings from this demon are appallingly unforgiving. You constantly want it at any given point in time and it does consume you. It makes me again loving of life in general, but also in a way that's care-free without a crash or diminishing returns like stimulants. This one completes me more so and makes me feel like the person I want to be. Adderall is a bit edgy and does result in paranoia or OCD-like qualities of behavior.. so I find opioids can be more of a use at any time kind of deal especially since they do not induce insomnia for myself.

These two substances have been the only substances that I can safely say I have an addiction to. Both negate my natural anhedonia.. so I probably can only be addicted to euphoric things. I've dabbled in others but these are the only two that I've never graduated from and at this point in time seem to never get old. I'm not sure how many people find both substances to be overwhelmingly pleasurable. I know that heroin and meth are commonplace for poly-substance addicts, but I guess I'm just utilizing weaker forms of the two so it makes sense in that regard. I've never been a heavy narcotic user nor I do I ever want to become one, but I've lost myself on both in the past for sure. In the long run I'd love to completely eliminate kratom/anything stronger from my life entirely.. and only dabble in adderall a couple of times a month.

Both my parents were heavy heavy narcotic abusers earlier in their lives. I wonder if that's why I struggle feeling like I lack natural dopamine. I'm what people would refer to as a functional addict, but it hasn't been something I've taken pride in being. I've never wanted to have an affinity for any substance. Most of my life I was absolutely sober lol. At least with occasional adderall use there's nothing about me socially to frowned upon. I'm on Kratom now and I'm proud of the progress I've made but there's still work to be done. I made it a strict point to never graduate to meth or heroin and for good reason.

 

[somnilicious]

Feeling pretty good about everything at the moment. I slept like a champ the last 2 nights. More and more often my mind is starting to enjoy just feeling clear and in control. My memories of my relapses are starting to be seen for what they are. It is getting more difficult to recall actual euphoria from them, when I actually take the time to recall the event. I know this won't last forever but I'm glad that it is coming at a much needed time.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Feeling pretty good about everything at the moment. I slept like a champ the last 2 nights. More and more often my mind is starting to enjoy just feeling clear and in control. My memories of my relapses are starting to be seen for what they are. It is getting more difficult to recall actual euphoria from them, when I actually take the time to recall the event. I know this won't last forever but I'm glad that it is coming at a much needed time.

That's awesome. Hold onto the memories of how bad you felt after your relapse. Our brain naturally tunes out bad memories and amps up our recollections of positive experiences, which is why after a short time clean we have "euphoric recall" and just a hazy, foggy memory of how bad our addictions got, and IME it takes work to prevent that from happening.

 

[Majiktouch]

My heart goes out to you as you struggle with the beast
The thing about benzos is there is a very real very uncomfortable and some say painful SECONDARY withdrawal that happens in 12-16 days. If you are not prepared for it, you'll be blindsided and feel as if you've failed in your recovery efforts. You have not failed!! Your body is doing what it does to us in the benzo withdrawal
This info is from the American Addiction Centers website, I hope you find it helpful. Don't stop trying, you can ,and will, recover if you keep fighting!
,

For shorter-acting benzos like Xanax, acute withdrawal symptoms usually begin with 6-8 hours, peak around the second day, and resolve within 4-5 days. Protracted, or post-acute symptoms, may last for weeks or months. These lasting symptoms may lead to relapse if not addressed with continued treatment, such as regular therapy.
Some people may experience protracted withdrawal, however, which can include psychiatric symptoms and drug cravings.
Protracted withdrawal can last for several weeks, months, or even years without being addressed by a mental health professional.

Keep fighting! Call your support people and get yourself around someone who truly cares for you! The dope man cares for your money, period. I know you are loved by others. Get around that! An addict alone is in bad company.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

NA didnt do it for me, I never really got any better at all.

I now believe that for many people NA can actually hinder them massively in their attempts to get well, but that's a whole other thread.

how long did you remain sober and how dedicated were you to working the program? I've been going like 3-5 times a week for 2 months and been clean. it seemed to work well but i basically decided a few days ago that i'm going to relapse today. nothing that bad happened. Its not like i don't believe in what they teach there, i'm just like "lets see if i can try drugs again and keep it to 1x a week or something" The confidence i got from going 2 months so easily make me think i can keep things under control this time around. And i did chip with pills pretty successfully for the past 2 years and never went back to a full blown dependency like the previous 10 years. So i have some confidence that "i got this." But in NA they teach me that i will always spiral back to full blown addiction.

I went to NA because even the chipping was causing health problems and fucking up sleep, digestive issues, and stress metrics. Admittiedly i was using opiods and average of 2X per week and that causes dependency i think. And the weed use was just out of control.

What exactly is it that you think doesn't help about NA or hinders getting well?

i will not be relapsing on opioids i think. just benzos which i have never been dependent or addicted to and have dabbled with for a decade. And weed but that stuff might as well be crack to me

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Feeling pretty good about everything at the moment. I slept like a champ the last 2 nights. More and more often my mind is starting to enjoy just feeling clear and in control. My memories of my relapses are starting to be seen for what they are. It is getting more difficult to recall actual euphoria from them, when I actually take the time to recall the event. I know this won't last forever but I'm glad that it is coming at a much needed time.

You never know what's going to happen and the world could end tomorrow. Relapsing can be incredibly unpredictable. It's probably best to never go into daily use again after a relapse but people do quite commonly.

It helps to just be appreciative of the time you are sober and it really does add up and count in the long run. Even for an addict who relapses after 10 years of being clean and literally never becomes sober ever again, those 10 years count for something of course. You could beat yourself up (I do) but that just makes the days become wasted time. I always say that HR is key for someone prone to relapsing.. which is why heroin is just about the worst thing to relapse on because it's already so variable, and lowered tolerance from spending time sober really does not help avoiding an overdose. It's good that you're not dealing with that, and as long as you don't push your use or overestimate your tolerance you'll at least always live.

You could spend all your days in a treatment program or have the best attitude towards your addictions--but at the end of the day you really never know what your use will be like in 5 days/a month/3 years. You always have control but in a way sometimes with opiates it feels like you have none at times lol. When the switch turns on and you're craving it... it feels like someone's holding a trigger to your head and you absolutely must score. I don't know why but when you are close to relapsing and avoid it you still feel like garbage about yourself. When you're not on opiates you'll want them and when you are on them you'll want to be sober. That's never going to change really.

 

[Jabberwocky]

so glad you got some good sleep somni!!!!

that reframing of using is really useful- cos willpower doesn't really work in the long term, you need to perceive using differently to have a chance of long term success.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

how long did you remain sober and how dedicated were you to working the program? I've been going like 3-5 times a week for 2 months and been clean. it seemed to work well but i basically decided a few days ago that i'm going to relapse today. nothing that bad happened. Its not like i don't believe in what they teach there, i'm just like "lets see if i can try drugs again and keep it to 1x a week or something" The confidence i got from going 2 months so easily make me think i can keep things under control this time around. And i did chip with pills pretty successfully for the past 2 years and never went back to a full blown dependency like the previous 10 years. So i have some confidence that "i got this." But in NA they teach me that i will always spiral back to full blown addiction.

I went to NA because even the chipping was causing health problems and fucking up sleep, digestive issues, and stress metrics. Admittiedly i was using opiods and average of 2X per week and that causes dependency i think. And the weed use was just out of control.

What exactly is it that you think doesn't help about NA or hinders getting well?

i will not be relapsing on opioids i think. just benzos which i have never been dependent or addicted to and have dabbled with for a decade. And weed but that stuff might as well be crack to me

Like I said earlier in the thread I went to hundreds of meetings over a number of years, as well as spending two months in a 12-step rehab at one point. The longest clean time I had was about 5-6 months and it was fucking painful.

Never worked the program past step 3, could never get well enough to do any more than that. I was very unwell, I basically wasnt even capable of asking someone to be my sponsor or to call them and speak to them once I had.

 

[Merkury]

Done the kratom thing. It doesn't work at all for me cause I can't sleep when I am taking it regardless of color or vendor. My brain is so fucked from 20yrs of heroin abuse that weak agonists like kratom do more harm than good. I ordered fent and Xanax. I used to be addicted to benzos 4yrs ago. I also tripped last Saturday. I love LSD but it doesn't change the fact that I'm a drug fiend.

Holy shit ! 20 years man ! you are a hero for surviving to that ! Benzos are the worst, I'd get rid of them .
I wonder if you could find some prescription meds that would suit your 'need to get high', without the side effects,
maybe some specific antidepressant in a low dose.....

 

[Rio Fantastic]

How are you today, somni? How are the cravings?

 

[somnilicious]

How are you today, somni? How are the cravings?

I'm alright..... I had a jarring event happen last night. I went over to a friends and took shrooms and everything was fine, except that I was just quiet, tired and a little bored. I didn't express any of this as I was just chilling with the moment but my friend and his buddy seemed annoyed that I wasn't talking much, while they amused themselves with inane psychedelic babble. We were doing kanna snus and Changa came out just after midnight. I was excited to try this DMT blend but I was in a weird mindset because my buddy had been deriding me about being in a tired contemplative mindset all night as if I was ruining his night. I want to mention at this point that my friend is openly hostile about Christianity and I am a believer. I have actually heard him profess to being a satanists in the modern, self actualization, humanists interpretation. He was also convicted of attempted murder almost 15yrs ago, for an event he said was self defense. I really like the guy and he seems to have totally turned his life around but there are many things about him and his friend that gave me pause.

So he puts the Changa on the pipe and him and his friend gather around me with these evil smiles as they start chanting and telling me that this whole ceremony was prepared in my honor and they wouldn't want it to be any body else but me. He then says are you ready to go home and be born into who you truly are? Then he basically starts paraphrasing the matrix scene, where Neo is awakened. I took a big hit and I suddenly melt into, what I can only describe as the most beautiful feeling of love, freedom and connection to God that I have ever felt. I became part of the whole as the universe arose and collapsed in geometric fractuals. God spoke to me and told me that everything was going to be Ok that I don't have to worry anymore because a change is coming in my life. I then came back to them standing over me telling me that it was going to be alright and that it had been a long journey to get to where I was but he was glad that it was me.

I suddenly felt like my life was in danger and immediately asked to call my dad. The thought had entered my mind that I was involved in some kind of satanic kill ritual and I was the intended victim. My friend said he would give me a ride home but asked if i wanted to finish the changa in the bowl first. Saying " wasn't it beautiful, like going where you have always wanted to go." I did want to go back, I really wanted to go back but I heard a voice telling me that I couldn't go back yet because it was a trap to try and keep me from completing my destiny. Everyone quickly got up and hugged and they were telling me they were glad I was finally here and kept asking if there was anything I wanted. It was so strange and he just kept asking me if I was alright and if I knew what just happened. He seemed to be over the moon ecstatic with excitement and was so pleased with me, where as before he had been fucking with me all night. He kept saying that he was glad I was finally here and that it was me. I felt as if I was the antichrist and the embodiment of Christ in one as a sense of grand duality unfolded before me but I had a choice because my friend had been babbling on about life being choices all night. I was suddenly on a desert plane and he was a demon. He kept saying that I could have anything I wanted in life, all I had to do was reach out and grab it. I was being asked to make a choice like Jesus was after fasting in the wilderness for 40 days as he was tempted by the devil. I held on to God and I was filled with assurance that I was protected and no harm could befall me.

He drove me home, told me that he did love me or he wouldn't have invited me over. He told me to relax and not worry about processing everything right now. I spent the rest of the night lying in bed trying to understand, what just happened with this strange new feeling that my life was about to begin and that I had a renewed destiny or at least the destiny that I had just been completely awoken to fulfill. I must also note that I have always had this feeling in my life and I have had a voice that gives me quasi apocryphal visions but assures me that I am to wonder lost in the dark and wilderness with pain until an allotted time. I don't like talking about these feelings to people because it sounds insane, so I have generally always kept them to my self. To say I am feeling a little shaken by the experience is an under statement but yet I know that it's all going to be Ok because no matter what God is in charge.......

I would have to say that that Changa experience was hands down the most intense and beautiful drug experience I have ever had. It truly felt like I had been to heaven. I'm not trying to think about it too much in a literal sense because it is all just so over the top, so I don't want to read into it too much but I do feel connected in a way I never have before.

I would like to say that in the midst of everything that has been going on in my life lately I stumbled into a church on Christmas eve after a service and was baptized on the spot and it felt as if they had been waiting for me to get there for that specific reason. I hadn't gone to church in 20yrs because the guy, who reintroduced me to God, had molested me and I was angry at God for these visions and for receiving something that I am hesitant to receive because it felt so heavy to have this vague destiny that both scared and weighed me down as I have wrestled with doubt. I'm just going to let go and spend the rest of the day just relaxing and feeling the air fill up and exit my lungs...lol.... I'm out.

 

[Shady's Fox]

Shrooms can help your sobering process. Generally speaking, psychedelics can do that.

 

[Hylight]

Shrooms can help your sobering process. Generally speaking, psychedelics can do that.

also ! correct ?

 

[Shady's Fox]

You do what?

 

[Hylight]

i guess mushrooms can be therapeutic, and even when used therapeutically low dosage wise.
i don't really consider it to be a drug so much.
however, feel initially it can be the very helpful boost.
if not taken repeatedly and abused, of course.
mushrooms are most agreeable in that way when taken naturally and for the good of he whole positivity of the whole results.
the mushrooms wont allow for the abuse anyway. they weren't DESIGNED to be taken obsessively anyway.
well, time to dance 🏵
or so the do forewarn.
alright !

 

[Hylight]

i washed my hair ! i washed my hair !
the roots the ends and everywhere.

it smell like floweres and perfume.

making life wonderful one petal
at a time.

baby small steps gigantic results !

: that's what i did

 

[Rio Fantastic]

I'm alright..... I had a jarring event happen last night. I went over to a friends and took shrooms and everything was fine, except that I was just quiet, tired and a little bored. I didn't express any of this as I was just chilling with the moment but my friend and his buddy seemed annoyed that I wasn't talking much, while they amused themselves with inane psychedelic babble. We were doing kanna snus and Changa came out just after midnight. I was excited to try this DMT blend but I was in a weird mindset because my buddy had been deriding me about being in a tired contemplative mindset all night as if I was ruining his night. I want to mention at this point that my friend is openly hostile about Christianity and I am a believer. I have actually heard him profess to being a satanists in the modern, self actualization, humanists interpretation. He was also convicted of attempted murder almost 15yrs ago, for an event he said was self defense. I really like the guy and he seems to have totally turned his life around but there are many things about him and his friend that gave me pause.

So he puts the Changa on the pipe and him and his friend gather around me with these evil smiles as they start chanting and telling me that this whole ceremony was prepared in my honor and they wouldn't want it to be any body else but me. He then says are you ready to go home and be born into who you truly are? Then he basically starts paraphrasing the matrix scene, where Neo is awakened. I took a big hit and I suddenly melt into, what I can only describe as the most beautiful feeling of love, freedom and connection to God that I have ever felt. I became part of the whole as the universe arose and collapsed in geometric fractuals. God spoke to me and told me that everything was going to be Ok that I don't have to worry anymore because a change is coming in my life. I then came back to them standing over me telling me that it was going to be alright and that it had been a long journey to get to where I was but he was glad that it was me.

I suddenly felt like my life was in danger and immediately asked to call my dad. The thought had entered my mind that I was involved in some kind of satanic kill ritual and I was the intended victim. My friend said he would give me a ride home but asked if i wanted to finish the changa in the bowl first. Saying " wasn't it beautiful, like going where you have always wanted to go." I did want to go back, I really wanted to go back but I heard a voice telling me that I couldn't go back yet because it was a trap to try and keep me from completing my destiny. Everyone quickly got up and hugged and they were telling me they were glad I was finally here and kept asking if there was anything I wanted. It was so strange and he just kept asking me if I was alright and if I knew what just happened. He seemed to be over the moon ecstatic with excitement and was so pleased with me, where as before he had been fucking with me all night. He kept saying that he was glad I was finally here and that it was me. I felt as if I was the antichrist and the embodiment of Christ in one as a sense of grand duality unfolded before me but I had a choice because my friend had been babbling on about life being choices all night. I was suddenly on a desert plane and he was a demon. He kept saying that I could have anything I wanted in life, all I had to do was reach out and grab it. I was being asked to make a choice like Jesus was after fasting in the wilderness for 40 days as he was tempted by the devil. I held on to God and I was filled with assurance that I was protected and no harm could befall me.

He drove me home, told me that he did love me or he wouldn't have invited me over. He told me to relax and not worry about processing everything right now. I spent the rest of the night lying in bed trying to understand, what just happened with this strange new feeling that my life was about to begin and that I had a renewed destiny or at least the destiny that I had just been completely awoken to fulfill. I must also note that I have always had this feeling in my life and I have had a voice that gives me quasi apocryphal visions but assures me that I am to wonder lost in the dark and wilderness with pain until an allotted time. I don't like talking about these feelings to people because it sounds insane, so I have generally always kept them to my self. To say I am feeling a little shaken by the experience is an under statement but yet I know that it's all going to be Ok because no matter what God is in charge.......

I would have to say that that Changa experience was hands down the most intense and beautiful drug experience I have ever had. It truly felt like I had been to heaven. I'm not trying to think about it too much in a literal sense because it is all just so over the top, so I don't want to read into it too much but I do feel connected in a way I never have before.

I would like to say that in the midst of everything that has been going on in my life lately I stumbled into a church on Christmas eve after a service and was baptized on the spot and it felt as if they had been waiting for me to get there for that specific reason. I hadn't gone to church in 20yrs because the guy, who reintroduced me to God, had molested me and I was angry at God for these visions and for receiving something that I am hesitant to receive because it felt so heavy to have this vague destiny that both scared and weighed me down as I have wrestled with doubt. I'm just going to let go and spend the rest of the day just relaxing and feeling the air fill up and exit my lungs...lol.... I'm out.

Holy shit. Sounds...intense!? I am glad that you received something positive from the experience. Maybe try and apply that optimism and positivity in your life now going forward? I would caution restraint about dabbling too much in psychedelics at the stage you're in. Though the experience sounds like it became wonderful at some point, the part with the dark paranoia where you became convinced you were about to be murdered could have easily gone very, very wrong, and while you're in a relatively vulnerable headspace perhaps you should consider a stretch of sobriety until you have gotten your bearings back entirely and a grip on some stability?? Just a thought. Hope you're doing OK.

 

[somnilicious]

Holy shit. Sounds...intense!? I am glad that you received something positive from the experience. Maybe try and apply that optimism and positivity in your life now going forward? I would caution restraint about dabbling too much in psychedelics at the stage you're in. Though the experience sounds like it became wonderful at some point, the part with the dark paranoia where you became convinced you were about to be murdered could have easily gone very, very wrong, and while you're in a relatively vulnerable headspace perhaps you should consider a stretch of sobriety until you have gotten your bearings back entirely and a grip on some stability?? Just a thought. Hope you're doing OK.

Yeah.... That's definitely the plan. It was the most beautiful experience but I was told not to go back. Shrooms really dont agree with me and I already know this they can be difficult because they cause me to fold into myself and question my life a lot, whereas LSD projects me into a state of profound wonderment and excitement but I just want to be back on earth, grounded and participating. I feel like I found what I was looking for and I don't need to get lost to find myself anymore. It is an inexplicable feeling but I feel whole and it's time to start making my life an instrument of action and purpose. I will need all my wits and faculties to be present for others now so I can begin to actualize the intent.

 

[Hylight]

You do what?

are you helping them !
i have to try to help myself
to even be able to help others.

i thought it was february recovery.
you have this . ! ! anyway ! !

: that's what i did