Harm Reduction ⚠️Taliban poppy ban puts Europe on fentanyl alert⚠️

[Hexenstahl]

Taliban poppy ban puts Europe on fentanyl alert

Drug users could switch to more dangerous synthetic opioids as heroin supply dries up.

www.politico.eu

I'll fucking cut these motherfuckers' bellies open and string up and hang these bastard sons of bitches with their intestines if they cause fentdope to come to Europe!!!
These taliban rats need to be raped with dildos 24/7 until the fucking dildo comes out of their mouths and then they'll need to be put through a meat grinder!
FUCK!!!

To make matters even worse there is a growing number of new opioids entering the european markets. Synthetic crap for which no test strips exist yet.
Shit if I'll die of an od I'll reincarnate as a warlord, genocide that entire stupid fucking country and replace the population with dope fiends and flood the entire stupid fucking world with 100% pure Heroin (imma put that shit into the water supply) to make the entire world population addicted to it and then we'll see if there is ANY MOTHERFUCKER left who still wants to do funny business with fentanyl or some other synthetic crap!
FUCK YOU TALIBAN AND FUCK THE CIA FOR TRAINING AND ENABLING THESE GOBLINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FuckinAcidMan]

legalize it

 

[Snafu in the Void]

 

[blondin]

There is enough stored raw opium to process for the next five years - plus the taliban rely on the income that Heroin produces

 

[G_Chem]

One of us! One of us!

It was bound to happen eventually. It’s all for the better tho in the long run. I’d still be shooting the shit probably otherwise..

-GC

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I really don’t think this is anything more than a pr stunt to gain more support from international agency. It’s estimated that about 400 000 people in Afghan live from opium production and no amount of aid could replace earnings made from opium production. Even if such sums would be sent toward Afghan, just a tiny % would reach common people.

If this really turns out to be start of eradicating opium production in Afghanistan I can see them stepping up ephedrine and hashish production. Could we expect some other country taking their place in heroin market? It’s definitely possible but at what speed is crucial for that to succeed at all. If other places would (re)start heroin production big question is would enough reach market before Afghan’s stuff dries out. Would production at nearly as big scale establish and would routes for it to reach markets successfully build and replace those in place for ages. I can see that happening “at time” only if some of neighbouring countries takes their place as otherwise it would take ages for tat to be accomplished. I don’t really think that golden triangle’s stuff could sufficiently fast and in sufficient amounts reach Europe fast enough.

Therefore if something like this really does become more than words, scenarios like Ukraine/Russia getting big into synthetic opiods production to further finance war and to provide drugs for army and civilian use in war torn places could become reality. As anyone who lived or lives in war torn country known all too well how wars and hard drugs go hand in hand.

Another possible outcome is that either NL or China fill the void trough already established big RC industry. Stepping in first to opiod market with suitable alternatives to heroin is going to create some billionaires .

Third imho less likely option is that existing routes for cocaine coming to Europe will be used for opiods too. Instead of that I think just more cocaine in Europe can be expected.

Hand it hand with any of those outcomes will be increase of methadone and other substitution therapies. Possibly getting back more morphine for use in treating heroin addiction and further expanding pharmaceutical heroin as an option. On country to country basis that’ll more or less prevent as bad outcome as in USA now.

Along with cocaine I bet meth use would also have tendency to increase, and for benzos I’m sure. I’m not sure how much well educated (ab)user is aware but a lot of HC junkies that have preference in using opiods/downers will much rather go for a strong stimulant than sobriety. And if things like fentadope do become a trend in Europe too and people start dropping like flies and realize how shitty is it compared to heroin a lot will turn to strong stimulants, strong benzos and booze. Within homeless and other people with a really bad life situation I’m sure really cheap options like synthetic noids will gain a lot of traction.

With all that in consideration we won’t know outcome (if ban at all really works out) for many more years.

What could be potent enough and safe enough alternative to heroin for 1.5milion opiod users if heroin drought does occur? Given something that could be used in an average dose of 0.1g that would mean that 150kg would be needed daily. Is it possible we’ll see some domestic products or already established Chinese factories find their way in supplying black market? Whatever happens I really hope, and believe we wont end up with an fentadope, tranq and benzodope grade shit.

 

[gordonliddy]

I really don’t think this is anything more than a pr stunt to gain more support from international agency.

Muslims being Muslims. Yeah anybody that I've met who has spent time in that neighborhood is of the opinion that Taliban sells. They enjoy the occaisional round of chest-thumping for the western press but if you can meet them behind the camels they got you.












Anybody know how to talk them into annexing Lhasa?

 

[cosmic charlie]

One of us! One of us!

It was bound to happen eventually. It’s all for the better tho in the long run. I’d still be shooting the shit probably otherwise..

-GC

For real, if i could still get good Heroin in the hood i would be copping bundles everytime i get paid. Doing that dance where i binge for a few days and then clean up again for the rest of the pay period, trying to avoid a habit. But we all know how that ends. The Fentanyl actually keeps me off Dope cuz im scared of it, and the high sucks.

Spent damn near 15yrs on Heroin alone, and then played around with this sketchy bullshit another five off and on. Lucky i came out the otherside, can count the friends and family that died on four hands from FentaDope. You guys better pray it doesnt hit Europe, its a wrecking ball.

 

[Hexenstahl]

They should just legalize this shit ffs. Gosh we had times when people just bought their laudanum at their local pharmacy for cheaper than a bottle of beer and had normal lives, pursued careers, had families and didn't drop dead like flies. There was no such thing as a fucking opioid crisis. None of these problems would exist if drugs were legal...

 

[Ismene2]

Either publicity or an attempt to put the price up.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

So where do the UK and Dutch get their med grade DiacetylMorphine from?
Poppie's are easy to grow, so any nation should in theory be able to produce their own. Now changing the law that makes it an nr 1 substance, meaning it has no medical use. And making it available for other reason's then maintenance for hardcore addict's. That is the bigger problem.

Sort of broaden it's indication's you get where I am going right. That you eventually will not only look at a purple Papaver Somniferum farmers field. If you have ever seen a field full of it, you know what I mean.

But that it also somehow end's up as a OTC or prescription med on a shelf. Dreaming outloud now. The irony is Opium Papaver's are legal to grow, only extracting the alkaloid's is considered a crime. Where as growing Weed is illegal. Only sales at Coffeeshops and a small personal posession are tolerized ( de-crimenalized )

 

[Hexenstahl]

I need to sniff some heroin first after reading these dumbass news lol.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

They should just legalize this shit ffs. Gosh we had times when people just bought their laudanum at their local pharmacy for cheaper than a bottle of beer and had normal lives, pursued careers, had families and didn't drop dead like flies. There was no such thing as a fucking opioid crisis. None of these problems would exist if drugs were legal...

Not quite none. It's not gonna be all peaches and roses if we legalise. There's always going to be a proportion of drug users who end up as addicts and ruin their lives with the stuff. But within a legal framework those could be much more efficiently helped without the added stigma of criminalisation ; plus a legally produced controlled supply where you know the exact potency would cut the overdose deaths to next to nothing.

 

[blondin]

....rather like booze

 

[Dead Machination]

legalize it

Nobody wants to admit it, but that's really the only option if we want to remove dangerous drugs from the streets.

As long as drugs remain illegal, they will find a way to make them more potent, in a smaller package, for ease of smuggling. Fentanyl fits the bill nicely, why smuggle 20 kg of heroin, when you can bring over 1 kg of fentanyl, and make the equivalent of the original 20 kg.

If opiate addiction was a recognized medical condition, that could be treated with prescription heroin, or whatever opiate you choose, people wouldn't feel the need to purchase it on the streets. Naturally prices would also come down, quality would go up, you would see a more consistent product. I believe that would make drug-related theft and overdose much less common. I bet you would even see injection related injuries go down. If you could buy fresh needles at the store, people would be less likely to reuse or share.

One argument that I can't stand, against legalization, if it was legal, more people would try it. I don't know a single person who hasn't tried a heroin, that if it was made legal would all of a sudden decide to give it a go. When cannabis was legalized in my state, nobody that I know that was a non-smoker started just because it was legal.

I could go on and on about why the war on drugs is fucking stupid, but on this forum, I think I'm preaching to the choir. Thanks for reading my rant.

 

[Hexenstahl]

Not quite none. It's not gonna be all peaches and roses if we legalise. There's always going to be a proportion of drug users who end up as addicts and ruin their lives with the stuff. But within a legal framework those could be much more efficiently helped without the added stigma of criminalisation ; plus a legally produced controlled supply where you know the exact potency would cut the overdose deaths to next to nothing.

Addiction isn't the issue. I'm quite happy to live with opioids for the rest of my entire life since they have a stablizing and harmonizing influence on my mood and are physically completely non-toxic. Opioids are my medication. They balance me out, they make me creative, they make me whole. Opium was used for thousands of years to treat depression (it was known as melancholia back then) and this is why it's illegal: it's nature's best antidepressant, but the stupid fucking system wants a population that is continuously stressed and depressed to sell a shit ton of drugs that don't work and have numerous side effects (*cough* tricyclical antidepressants *cough*) for which they can sell even more drugs. Seriously, this shit isn't funny anymore.

If Opium was legal we could establish a community poppy garden in every town and city where the opium poppy gets mass produced to be freely used by people, and no, this won't result in an out of control addiction. Back when Opium was legal only a small portion of the US population became addicted because the overwhelming majority of people simply do not have a desire or need to get high. Doing things this way would ensure a massive supply of Opium for dirt cheap prices, resulting in addicts not having to worry anymore about how and where to get money to feed their habit. They don't have to worry about accidental ODs anymore. Money is the issue and not the addiction. If you're a multi-millionaire you can have an oxy habit for the rest of your life and never run into any trouble simply because you can afford a 600mg/day habit. This proves to me that the problem isn't addiction. All the troubles that we have today in regards to opioids stem from prohibition and the consequences that arise out of it, from the stigma to the astronomical costs of these drugs. I can buy a gram of heroin in afghanistan for laughable 2€, but here in Germany I have to pay 10 to 20x the amount to greedy pushers which is absolutely ridiculous. No dope fiend would ever perceive his addiction as a problem if he had to put only 2€ for a gram of 100% pure heroin on the table. No more running around through half the city trying to look for shit to steal. He could work a normal job, advance in his career, raise a family and nobody would even suspect that he's hooked. Shit, if dope was that cheap I'd be high 24/7 AND work as a freelance copywriter AND look for a partner AND be able to invest surplus capital into stocks, bonds and real estate funds. Life would be totally different for me. It would be different for all of us...

 

[AlsoTapered]

I'm sure the Mexicans will seek to push fentanyl but it's much more likely to be etonitazine or, as I have posted, the derivative that is some x4 more potent and it would appear, no more complex to produce. I have posted all of the papers concerning the QSAR and so it would seem that this has been overlooked and given that the LD50 is the same as the parent drug, it's TI is also four times higher.

SMILES CCOc1ccc(cc1)[C@@H](C=O)c1nc2cc(ccc2n1CCN(CC)CC)[N+]([O-])=O

But then I notice that their is scope for someone to telescope the synthesis of the 2,2-dimethyl-3-amino-3-phenyl propanamide scaffold which as far as I can tell isn't explicitly controlled and note is the class isn't subject to analogue laws using Markush structures to control entire classes (under which the nitazines ARE controlled).

SMILES CNC(c1ccccc1)C(C)(C)C(=O)NCCc1ccccc1

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

One argument that I can't stand, against legalization, if it was legal, more people would try it. I don't know a single person who hasn't tried a heroin, that if it was made legal would all of a sudden decide to give it a go. When cannabis was legalized in my state, nobody that I know that was a non-smoker started just because it was legal.

I keep saying this!!

Nobody uses any substance merely because it's available, people use whatever they use because they have an interest in / desire for that particular drug. I keep getting offered stimulants and psychedelics, I don't take them just because they're THERE. I can purchase cigarettes legally everywhere but I've never been a smoker.

Anti-legalization zealots, in as far as they're even willing to admit this is the only way to cut both drug-related crime and drug-related deaths, will say that to legalize would be insanity because then untold numbers would get hooked and it would be 'a social experiment with uncertain outcome we can't risk'.
I've been in public debates about this and my answer is we're already run the 'experiment'. It was pre-prohibition times. Any respectable person could walk into a pharmacy and buy laudanum, paregoric, morphine, coca in various preparations, hashish paste. Everybody wasn't doing all the drugs and society didn't collapse.

Those who want to use drugs are already doing them, those who have no such affinity won't suddenly run out and smoke crack just because it's no longer punishable. There remains a small cohort of curious but law-abiding individuals, and as far as those are concerned it stands to reason that someone whose want of drugs isn't strong enough to risk the legal consequences in the first place is highly unlikely to become a problem user, even if they become a regular user.

When cannabis was legalized in the Netherlands the hyped-up scenario of a nation of pot-heads failed to materialize. What happened instead was a slight initial increase in customers, most of which, curiosity satisfied, left off again, and the numbers of regular consumers essentially settled back down to what it was.

The proportion of drug users of any given population has historically been quite stable. We have however seen a steady INCREASE of people with addiction problems right in line with prohibition, and the more strictly enforced generally the more problematic use, the more drug overdoses, the more crime. Prohibition not only is a disastrous failure in terms of what it's claiming to want to accomplish but is directly counter-productive.

 

[Hexenstahl]

This is what's wrong with you. You're waiting for society to solve your problem for you. You're waiting for society to help you to move someplace where having a cute little poppy garden is legal.

Do you tell addicts that they are waiting for society to solve their problem by legalizing drugs? My message was, is and always will be: legalize all drugs. Period. If you have a problem with that you're in the wrong place.

 

[FuckinAcidMan]

Nobody wants to admit it, but that's really the only option if we want to remove dangerous drugs from the streets.

As long as drugs remain illegal, they will find a way to make them more potent, in a smaller package, for ease of smuggling. Fentanyl fits the bill nicely, why smuggle 20 kg of heroin, when you can bring over 1 kg of fentanyl, and make the equivalent of the original 20 kg.

If opiate addiction was a recognized medical condition, that could be treated with prescription heroin, or whatever opiate you choose, people wouldn't feel the need to purchase it on the streets. Naturally prices would also come down, quality would go up, you would see a more consistent product. I believe that would make drug-related theft and overdose much less common. I bet you would even see injection related injuries go down. If you could buy fresh needles at the store, people would be less likely to reuse or share.

One argument that I can't stand, against legalization, if it was legal, more people would try it. I don't know a single person who hasn't tried a heroin, that if it was made legal would all of a sudden decide to give it a go. When cannabis was legalized in my state, nobody that I know that was a non-smoker started just because it was legal.

I could go on and on about why the war on drugs is fucking stupid, but on this forum, I think I'm preaching to the choir. Thanks for reading my rant.

prohibitionists are prudes who hate admitting that they are wrong, historically speaking at least.
this feels like another uphill battle with these goddamn people unfortunately.
i despise this culture of fear.