Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[CitioKid]

Citio, this sounds like a great thread if it isn't somewhere else already. What is it about subs that make some people want off this I wonder?

Because people wanna be sober, and they think it will be fairly easy.

Also because subs turned me into a grandma in the bedroom.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Hi! I'm trying to come off subs, 24mg/day for the last 37 days total. Before that I had a pretty solid H habit, 1/2 to gram/daily, injected. In the last 5 days I've gone from 24 to 16 to 8 and now I've gone 30 hours with zero opiates/opiods for the first time in two years. What am I in for? Does anyone know? I've got plenty of sub left, but I've read enough here to realize the longer you're on it the harder it is to come off it.

Also, my wife is on subs. We just found out she's pregnant. I'm quitting cold turkey just to see how hard it is, if it isn't so bad she's going to quit also. I've read a lot on here about how hard it is to come off regular sub use at less than 2mg/daily. She's been on it the same number of days, 12mg daily though. Will it be as hard or harder for her even though she's been using less?

Any info on both questions would be great.

-> Suboxone MT

 

[littlebaggies]

Well, Im 44hrs off my last 8mg sub and I feel ok. Maybe I got lucky....

 

[jnicolas1980]

I wish I could offer more advice instead of questions, but I'm not that experienced yet. My latest: Now that I've been on Suboxone (film) for a few weeks, I'm really enjoying it... too much, perhaps. I was initially in a hurry to taper and quit, but now I'm thinking I wouldn't mind staying on it for a while, as I've found it helps with my Crohn's-related pain and gives me a good, energetic feeling for a few hours after dosing.

But while I was at about .5 to .75 mg a day at the beginning of the week, I've taken about 1.5 mg or so for the last few days. Can anyone with experience being on a low dose tell me whether this might become a problem (being on 1 mg or more a day for a while)? Is there an approximate maximum daily dose to stick with that will lessen the withdrawal effects when the day comes?

 

[opiateaddy]

Lortab after Suboxone?

Originally Posted by opiateaddy
Yep. I'm new here and have been on opiates for legitimate pain for about 15 years. About 2 weeks ago I started suboxone at 4-8mg per day. Last night, I had a bad fall and hurt my herniated discs in my back. I have 10 Lortabs in my medicine cabinet and I'm in severe pain. My last dose of sub was at 11am yesterday. Can I take Lortab for pain now, and if two usually does the trick, how many would I need to take for pain relief?

Btw, I'm not using Suboxone for hydro addiction but for opiate addiction in general. I had been prescribed 30mg roxis 4 x daily.

 

[opiateaddy]

Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541906

. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.

Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.

Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.

Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.

See, I've been reading and reading, and it seems to vary a lot depending on the person, how long you've been on Suboxone, and at what dosage. Also depends a lot on what dosage of opiates we were using before starting Sub and for how long. So, I'm still not sure if the 21 hrs I waited was long enough. Keep in mind that I've only been on sub for about 2 weeks and no more that 8mg a day.
All your info is very much appreciated!
Peace~
MariJane

 

[opiateaddy]

Some people would still have adverse effects because they are specifically sensitive.

I know someone who took hydrocodone, and then Suboxone right afterward, and had precipitated withdrawal. They weren't opiate dependent.

Everyone is different. Some people who are not even truly addicted to opiates can go into precipitated withdrawa. I don't understand the recreational use of Suboxone. It makes no sense to me. I don't even wanna go there.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does (source). There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.

What causes the precipitated W/D? The naloxone or the fact that the bupe has a higher affinity for the mu-opioid receptor and is kicking the heroin off?

If the answer is the bupe's higher affinity than the naloxone has absolutely no purpose whatsoever even with causing precipitated W/D's.....right?

 

[muvolution]

One PM patients opinion on Bupe for Chronic Pain - It is OK. It would definitely work for mild to moderate pain, but for moderate to severe pain it isn't quite adequate. Also, now that I'm going pack to traditional pain management it is causing some problems.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

One PM patients opinion on Bupe for Chronic Pain - It is OK. It would definitely work for mild to moderate pain, but for moderate to severe pain it isn't quite adequate. Also, now that I'm going pack to traditional pain management it is causing some problems.

What kinds of problems?

 

[muvolution]

issues with dose-adjustment and more importantly my PM doctors assertion that I should not have gone to my psychiatrist for suboxone, but rather to her. She wasn't on the list of doctors in my area who are licensed to dispense Bupe, and I told her so, and also that the practice she works at had told me that no doctors there prescribed it. She suggested that I was probably just looking at lists "for junkies" and that's why she wasn't on it.
Sorry some of this is venting, but yeah, it can cause some issues.

 

[anthony1958]

i have read a lot of the post in this thread,very informative thanks,i am glad i have no problems with my dr.he tells me i can stay on it the rest of my life if i want,after 2yrs well actually almost 2 1/2 yrs,i have no desire to get off suboxone,this has been a miracle drug for me,i am just wondering what is considered a regular dose to the masses?i'm on 32mg a day,i wouldn't ask,but i only know one other person on sub. and for all the wrong reasons to.i am very glad i found this forum,as far as getting off this drug,it is nowhere in my near future,i do feel for those with money issues that cause folks to reduce or even be forced off.i'm lucky and very grateful,as being on it thru the v.a. hosp has made it very affordable,i have heard it cost 9 bucks a pill in a pharmacy

 

[SubDude]

i have read a lot of the post in this thread,very informative thanks,i am glad i have no problems with my dr.he tells me i can stay on it the rest of my life if i want,after 2yrs well actually almost 2 1/2 yrs,i have no desire to get off suboxone,this has been a miracle drug for me,i am just wondering what is considered a regular dose to the masses?i'm on 32mg a day,i wouldn't ask,but i only know one other person on sub. and for all the wrong reasons to.i am very glad i found this forum,as far as getting off this drug,it is nowhere in my near future,i do feel for those with money issues that cause folks to reduce or even be forced off.i'm lucky and very grateful,as being on it thru the v.a. hosp has made it very affordable,i have heard it cost 9 bucks a pill in a pharmacy

I also get subs thru the VA and am surprised they have you on 32mg. That's a massive dose.

 

[caseface99]

^^ Extremely massive dose... Entirely unnecessary for anyone in my opinion.

Geez it's been a while since I've posted. On top of destroying my laptop screen around Christmas, I ran out of kratom and felt like shit, didn't have any suboxone so i used heroin for a few days because i was in Jersey and could. Jumped back on suboxone when i got back to Illinois and totally fucked all my progress. Also i have been sick since a couple days before christmas. First it was a sinus infection, then headaches and nausea, then a chest/lung infection and now i am back to headaches and nausea. Weird hiccup like chest pains that i am assuming is like acid reflex or something too. Tums doesn't help at all, also have the spins in the morning. The nausea is like a hungry nauseousness which doesn't actually get better if i eat.

I'm back to taking almost a mg of sub per day, and ordered like 10 ounces of kratom a day or two ago. Hopefully this time that will be enough, I'd rather not run out too soon and fuck up again. All this BS has made me really anxious and depressed for the first time in the last 4ish months that I've been mostly sober. Oh well, at least i found an apartment in san francisco last week. It's 2 blocks from the beach and 3 blocks from golden gate park, drivin' out there in a week or two, i can't wait.

 

[lightitup]

Well today is my FOURTH day without H in months. I'm really thankful for the bupe, I actually went on a (quite long) hike yesterday!! It makes me want to get out and do something. This is really something I couldn't have imagined before! I'm really ecstatic about this substance, I feel like I am going to be able to recover my life, even if it takes a little longer than I thought before. I do have to take a nap usually in the day, but my sleep seems like it is even slowly getting better.

So I was at 2mg (snorted) twice a day. This was for 3.5 days. I have 1mg of powder left, but just switched over to the strips. Does anyone think I will need to up (or lower) my dose, or supplement with some snorted powder? Just dissolved my first dose of 2mg about 35 minutes ago and am having slight neck pains, but that could just be from hiking and shit. I feel like it did kick in, but I'm still having slight w/d pains.

Anyway, glad I found this thread, thanks guys!

PS to anthony: 32mg is a really high dose. Even if you don't want to explain to your doctor, you might want to consider tapering. Most people start around 4-8mg and then lower to 1mg or so. I have heard many accounts of people getting much more euphoria after tapering, and taking lower doses.

 

[Been&Done]

@Case: Glad you're back man, and good luck with your new beginning in San Fran.
we have some similarities in our recovery stories. It's been 4 months for me to quit the smack, and just lately, i did it twice and not feeling very good about it! Woke the next days with "damn it, i don't want this (the addiction) again" and made me freak out a little. I did post on here and got some encouraging replies that made me realize that life goes on, and these slip ups are not the end of the world as long as one still really wants the better, sober life away from old addictions. Good luck!


@Light: Keep going, life can only get better. It's not an easy challenge, but life is there to be enjoyed. If some people can quit after 10 or 15 years, then so can you. Best of luck.

@Anthony: 32 is a huge dose, maybe you could taper lower and see the effects yourself, then move on from there.

As i have posted before, i have used those slip- ups to lower my Sub dose. I'm at 0.5 now and got a call 2 days ago from the pharma telling me that my Subutex is ready. I have been tolerating these mild headaches i get with the Suboxone, since i had no option but to buy it. Excited to be back to Subutex for a final taper, or maybe i'm not there yet, we'll see.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

issues with dose-adjustment and more importantly my PM doctors assertion that I should not have gone to my psychiatrist for suboxone, but rather to her. She wasn't on the list of doctors in my area who are licensed to dispense Bupe, and I told her so, and also that the practice she works at had told me that no doctors there prescribed it. She suggested that I was probably just looking at lists "for junkies" and that's why she wasn't on it.
Sorry some of this is venting, but yeah, it can cause some issues.

I would have been like "WTF is wrong with you doc?" I can't believe that's how the doctor treated you.

Well today is my FOURTH day without H in months. I'm really thankful for the bupe, I actually went on a (quite long) hike yesterday!! It makes me want to get out and do something. This is really something I couldn't have imagined before! I'm really ecstatic about this substance, I feel like I am going to be able to recover my life, even if it takes a little longer than I thought before. I do have to take a nap usually in the day, but my sleep seems like it is even slowly getting better.

So I was at 2mg (snorted) twice a day. This was for 3.5 days. I have 1mg of powder left, but just switched over to the strips. Does anyone think I will need to up (or lower) my dose, or supplement with some snorted powder? Just dissolved my first dose of 2mg about 35 minutes ago and am having slight neck pains, but that could just be from hiking and shit. I feel like it did kick in, but I'm still having slight w/d pains.

Anyway, glad I found this thread, thanks guys!

No problem! I am glad to hear that it is working well for you. %)

 

[jamesBrown]

Been a long time since Ive posted here or even been on BL....just been busy I guess. But one thing I noticed just now while reading some of the pages of posts that I missed while I wasnt here..... that long megathread type threads that exist for the basicly same purpose for a long period of time(like this one.....sub megathread).....tend to have cyclical conversations. Like, everything being talked about now and the questions that are being answered are all things that were covered thoroughly back when I was new to BL. And now that I notice ALOT more new people posting in this megathread, I also notice the exact same issues being discussed again and even in the exact same fashion.
Its kinda hard to explain but it really feels like no one ever really uses the search engine and they all just ask ask ask ask ask......cuz I swear, I read about 4-5 pages straight of posts, and not one question or issue that was brought up hadnt been covered before by me or someone else, back when I use to post on this megathread several times a day.
Im not sure what the purpose of my post is but I just felt like talkin about that cuz it was somethin I noticed and maybe someone will actually use the search function more instead of re-asking the same questions from before. or maybe thats just the way BL works and no one has control over it cuz thats just how humans work. We are cyclical people in this context.

 

[dokomo]

^I agree. Kind of like commenting on worthless posts with a worthless post.

 

[caseface99]

^^ By your guys' standards Bluelight shouldn't even be a message board, they should convert it to a "Wikipedia for drugs" and ditch the discussion, because i doubt if much genuinely unique discussion has taken place here in a while.


In my opinion using the search engine successfully isn't nearly as easy as it's made out to be, and i think megathreads to a damn fine job at cutting back on the clutter. Who cares if questions get repeated in here anyway, doesn't hurt anyone.