Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[Captain.Heroin]

An update to the FAQ...

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541906

. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.

I updated the FAQ; I understand that previously people were skeptical about buprenorphine's greater receptor affinity versus naloxone, now there is a thread which sources this data in Advanced Drug Discussion.

Click the

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=9083674#post9083674

link above to read more if you are interested.

 

[caseface99]

I updated the FAQ; I understand that previously people were skeptical about buprenorphine's greater receptor affinity versus naloxone, now there is a thread which sources this data in Advanced Drug Discussion.

Click the

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=9083674#post9083674

link above to read more if you are interested.

Just a suggestion, feel free to choose not to include this but,
Perhaps update that or a new part of the FAQ to include that Suboxone will only cause P/W after using heroin if you have BEEN using heroin. It has been proven by myself "live" while posting in this thread with updates a few months back, and has been confirmed by a number of other posters. If you are taking Suboxone daily, then use Heroin, you can go RIGHT back onto Suboxone without waiting until you go into withdrawal and will not go into precipitated withdrawal. I have done this after binging on heroin for a few days. Im not sure what the "cutoff" is, but i have done this MANY times even up to a week of using heroin daily and the ONLY time i got P/W was when i didn't wait long enough after a 3 week binge.

I can see not wanting to add this because everyone is different and the "cutoff" for how long of a binge could be different for everyone, but SURELY you don't have to wait if you only dose heroin once or twice. I have taken suboxone and hour and a half after taking heroin just to see what would happen and i didn't get P/W.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Just a suggestion, feel free to choose not to include this but,
Perhaps update that or a new part of the FAQ to include that Suboxone will only cause P/W after using heroin if you have BEEN using heroin. It has been proven by myself "live" while posting in this thread with updates a few months back, and has been confirmed by a number of other posters. If you are taking Suboxone daily, then use Heroin, you can go RIGHT back onto Suboxone without waiting until you go into withdrawal and will not go into precipitated withdrawal. I have done this after binging on heroin for a few days. Im not sure what the "cutoff" is, but i have done this MANY times even up to a week of using heroin daily and the ONLY time i got P/W was when i didn't wait long enough after a 3 week binge.

I can see not wanting to add this because everyone is different and the "cutoff" for how long of a binge could be different for everyone, but SURELY you don't have to wait if you only dose heroin once or twice. I have taken suboxone and hour and a half after taking heroin just to see what would happen and i didn't get P/W.

Some people would still have adverse effects because they are specifically sensitive.

I know someone who took hydrocodone, and then Suboxone right afterward, and had precipitated withdrawal. They weren't opiate dependent.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

just woke up, took my bupe and k pin and decided to try some dmaa i got in the mail yesterday.. all i have to say is i feel great. just great. lol. and i don't even like stims, it's like there is a calming effect to it at the same time it's stimulating me, or maybe it's cuz of the k pins lol.
hope everyone else is havin a good night/morning

the dmaa came with a 10mg scoop which is awesome, you just dip it in the powder and you know you have 10mg.. so i did 10 up each nostril (fuck it burns for a couple minutes, but stuff like that never bothered me much). i think im going to buy another 5grams.

EDIT: ok back on to bupe.. sorry for derailing for a second.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

just woke up, took my bupe and k pin and decided to try some dmaa i got in the mail yesterday.. all i have to say is i feel great. just great. lol. and i don't even like stims, it's like there is a calming effect to it at the same time it's stimulating me, or maybe it's cuz of the k pins lol.
hope everyone else is havin a good night/morning

Never tried this one before. What do you think of it?

 

[caseface99]

Ok thanks for that info, never heard of that happening before in that type of situation, especially in somebody that wasn't dependent. I figured there would be a good reason why it wasn't in the Faq.


And can anybody explain why i am unable to stabilize on a dose of suboxone now that I am under 1mg/daily? You would think that certainly after over a month of .5mgs/daily that .5 would hold me over all day, since withdrawal lasts about 3 weeks. Am i experiencing PAWS? I have been taking .5mgs daily for about 5 weeks, and i also tried taking .25 twice daily for almost the last week and it made pretty much no difference. I feel hot/sweat/and have a general "feeling" that comes on and off in waves that is hard to describe, but it makes me want to GTFO of my body.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

And can anybody explain why i am unable to stabilize on a dose of suboxone now that I am under 1mg/daily? You would think that certainly after over a month of .5mgs/daily that .5 would hold me over all day, since withdrawal lasts about 3 weeks. Am i experiencing PAWS? I have been taking .5mgs daily for about 5 weeks, and i also tried taking .25 twice daily for almost the last week and it made pretty much no difference. I feel hot/sweat/and have a general "feeling" that comes on and off in waves that is hard to describe, but it makes me want to GTFO of my body.

How long were you using full agonist opiates? Which ones were you using?

How long have you been using buprenorphine, and how much have you been taking? What ROA?

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Never tried this one before. What do you think of it?

i would actually compare it to the stimulation that cocaine gives me, just less powerful.. which is perfect because the only reason i don't like coke is because i get overly stimulated and paranoid and can't sit still.. the dmaa is like coke minus the bad stuff (for me).. it could be too weak for others, but im sensitive to stims.

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

Ok thanks for that info, never heard of that happening before in that type of situation, especially in somebody that wasn't dependent. I figured there would be a good reason why it wasn't in the Faq.


And can anybody explain why i am unable to stabilize on a dose of suboxone now that I am under 1mg/daily? You would think that certainly after over a month of .5mgs/daily that .5 would hold me over all day, since withdrawal lasts about 3 weeks. Am i experiencing PAWS? I have been taking .5mgs daily for about 5 weeks, and i also tried taking .25 twice daily for almost the last week and it made pretty much no difference. I feel hot/sweat/and have a general "feeling" that comes on and off in waves that is hard to describe, but it makes me want to GTFO of my body.

I did the same thing and it happened to me. Not sure if it was PAWs or what but mild w/d lasted FOREVER. Like 15 days. I still have rough days (now I know they are PAWs now.)

 

[caseface99]

How long were you using full agonist opiates? Which ones were you using?

How long have you been using buprenorphine, and how much have you been taking? What ROA?

I was using heroin for slightly less than a year, i would say "dependent" on it for 8-9 months, using upwards of 12-15 bags daily for the last few months without getting very high, mostly just because i needed that much to feel normal.

After that i went on 12mgs of suboxone for about a year, and have been tapering down for 7-8 months. Its been about 19 months total all together, been on .5mgs for the last 5ish weeks. I only ask if this is PAWS because its the same symptoms i always got for a couple weeks after lowering my dose, but until i got down to .5mgs daily those symptoms would eventually go away and i would stabilize.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I was using heroin for slightly less than a year, i would say "dependent" on it for 8-9 months, using upwards of 12-15 bags daily for the last few months without getting very high, mostly just because i needed that much to feel normal.

After that i went on 12mgs of suboxone for about a year, and have been tapering down for 7-8 months. Its been about 19 months total all together, been on .5mgs for the last 5ish weeks. I only ask if this is PAWS because its the same symptoms i always got for a couple weeks after lowering my dose, but until i got down to .5mgs daily those symptoms would eventually go away and i would stabilize.

It might be PAWS. I have likewise used heroin for about as long as you did, and I probably used less than you did (quality makes comparing quantities people used very difficult) but when I was on Suboxone for about the first 1 to 1.5 years, I probably experienced PAWS, though I can't say for sure if this is similar to what you're going through.

I eventually stabilized to buprenorphine, and stopped having WD symptoms in between doses and when I woke up.

It could be that 12mg of Suboxone per day was too high of a dose for you, and that may be attributable to how you feel now.

It might take 1.5 to 3 months to "stabilize" on a dose of buprenorphine depending on what kind of changes you are going through and what your history is like, and PAWS can list for a year if not longer.

I suspect that a year + worth of PAWS is unlikely for people who were dependent on heroin for a year or less, but I can't be sure. I think I went through this because I am more sensitive to opiates than the average person.

 

[caseface99]

What would some classic/traditional PAWS symptoms be? Worse or not as bad as feeling hot/sweating constantly/skin crawling/insomnia.

I suppose i should go look this up myself.

But will there be a difference in PAWS listed for Buprenorphine dependence and Bupe that was preceded with Heroin?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What would some classic/traditional PAWS symptoms be? Worse or not as bad as feeling hot/sweating constantly/skin crawling/insomnia.

I suppose i should go look this up myself.

But will there be a difference in PAWS listed for Buprenorphine dependence and Bupe that was preceded with Heroin?

Yeah, definitely do research for yourself, but I think that the symptoms are about on point to what you're describing.

Also yes, precipitated withdrawal and PAWS are much different.

 

[caseface99]

Sorry preceded wasn't the best word i didn't think about that, what i meant was lets say Person A Is prescribed 8mgs of Bupe for 12 months, then tapers down and jumps off.
Person B uses heroin for 4 months, then uses 8mgs of Bupe for 9 months or whatever.
Will the PAWS be that different for person A than it is for person B, or will it be more or less the same? Does the use of heroin before bupe maintenance make a difference? Assume person A was on bupe for pain managment not opiate dependence.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Sorry preceded wasn't the best word i didn't think about that, what i meant was lets say Person A Is prescribed 8mgs of Bupe for 12 months, then tapers down and jumps off.
Person B uses heroin for 4 months, then uses 8mgs of Bupe for 9 months or whatever.
Will the PAWS be that different for person A than it is for person B, or will it be more or less the same? Does the use of heroin before bupe maintenance make a difference? Assume person A was on bupe for pain managment not opiate dependence.

I couldn't tell you to be honest.

People prescribed buprenorphine for pain management would typically be taking buprenex at much smaller doses, just saying.

I think the individual differences is greater than the average/mean, but generally speaking, I would think the PAWS would be about the same.

 

[caseface99]

Taking 4-5 times my normal dose of gabapentin made most of the symptoms disappear like it used ti when i was first prescribed it. Why does this shit have to have such a quickly increasing tolerance. I don't get prescribed enough of this shit to take that dose. I can pick up my refills today, im considering just saying fuck it and jumping off. Unfortunately i can't afford kratom still . Im going to tell my girlfriends aunt what im doing and ask her to buy me the stuff i can't afford, but ill pretty much have all this at my disposal:
Gabapentin
Clonidine
Benadryl
DXM cough syrup
Aleve/Advil
A ton of Soup
HOT baths with pain relieving/relaxing bath salts
Multi vitamin
B complex energy vitamin
Juice
Fruits

What am i missing? I can't think of anything else OTC right now. And should i make an appointment with my doc instead of just getting this refills and at least try to get valium or klonipin prescribed? Anything else i should attempt to get prescribed? Any other tips/tricks? I definitely want to jump off sub within the week. Im completely sick of tapering down and being in a state of perpetual minor withdrawals. It fucking sucks and its driving me insane.

 

[caseface99]

Take another 4 mgs, you were on a very high dose of oxy and using for a long time, 4mgs probably isn't nearly enough. There is a very minute chance of ODing on suboxone itself, so don't worry about that unless you're mixing with benzos and/or alcohol. So take another 4mgs then report back in 30 mins.

Also, you're taking it under the tongue correct? Don't swallow them as it wont work.

 

[catbird]

for me, sub takes at least an hour to just begin (i notice i still feel like shit but my legs aren't shaking anymore) and two hours to really set in and do it's job. you may or may not get total relief from 4mgs but you should wait at least another 30 min. it really does take a while for most people. like 1-2 hours. good luck man. i've been there an know it sucks. lets us know how you are feeling when you can.

 

[caseface99]

True, it does take at LEAST an hour for full effects, but everytime i have taken sub while in bad withdrawal i at least started feeling better within 30 mins. Either way i would reccomend 8mgs regardless for that large of an oxy habit. Plus i think its been a couple hours since he posted that so i wonder how hes doing.

 

[catbird]

i wish i could help you. god i feel bad for you. if you go to the ER they will at least give you (eventually depending on triage) clonodine or maybe valium. you might tell them you get anxiety attacks? sorry. hang in there?