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Harm Reduction New! - Cold Water Extraction Mega Thread & FAQ

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Nightmare Girl said:
If you put it in the fridge you are losing more codeine. That's why you say to take 300 mgs because you lose 90% of it the way you guys do it. So stop being fucking rude to my wife she knows 100 times more than you do about it. You don't stir it as she said because it loses it's salt. That's the phosphate part right? Well it is.
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The reason you stir the mixture it to help it dissolve, put salt in a glass and it's murky, you stir it up and leave it for a bit and it goes transparent, that's because its dissolved. Same goes for codeine phosphate, when it dissolves the salt (phosphate ion) dissociates along with the codeine ion. If it doesn't dissolve it is a solid, and solids (hopefully) won't go through a filter, so you WANT it to dissolve (or lose its salt as you put it).

What do you think happens when you eat a codeine tablet? it dissolves, the phosphate dissociates from the codeine. I don't know where you learnt chemistry but where I learnt it a solid dissolving (eg something attached to a salt) involves it separating and being attracted to a water molecule (assuming water is used), hell some tablets use codeine sulphate not phosphate so that should tell you that the salt has absolutely nothing to do with the dissolution.

http://leda.lycaeum.org/index.pl?ID=11309 (Yes I realise its not a credible resource but its the only figures I've got to go on, I have no reason to believe they would make them up)

Look at this website, codeine is actually MORE soluble at lower temperatures, so by putting it in the fridge MORE codeine dissolves and LESS paracetamol dissolves.

The only part of your post that is true is filtering through a t-shirt, even a coffee filter is not fine enough to do this procedure 100% safely, you should be using a micron sized chemical grade filter, you can buy them on the internet for about the same price as a coffee filter anyway. I'd imagine two layers of silk would be in between this and a coffee filter
 
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Yeah, of course codeine freebase is insoluble in water, that's basic chemistry. Is that the only dispute?






fake doctor said:
Doctors have studied CWE to make sure it is safe.
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LOL.
 
johanneschimpo said:
Yeah, of course codeine freebase is insoluble in water, that's basic chemistry. Is that the only dispute?
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They are saying that by stirring the CWE solution the codeines salt comes off and it becomes codeine freebase, hence you lose it in the filtration process as it is now a solid like the majority of the paracetamol.

What I am questioning is if this is true, and if so by what action as I thought to turn a soluble salt into an insoluble salt (freebase) you usually had to do a fair bit of work, eg when people make freebase cocaine etc, or do the reverse with heroin that needs acid.
 
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dokomo said:
And give me a fucking break! Saying doctors have studied cold water extraction on codeine and acetaminophen pills to make sure that the process is safe for junkies is asinine. Show me peer-reviewed, published research or stfu about this.
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Actually someone (mr blonde I think) posted a study on CWE, not sure if it was peer reviewed but it was a proper academic paper, they seemed to think that a lot of the paracetamol still got through though unless the temp was quite low.
 
rolls said:
Actually someone (mr blonde I think) posted a study on CWE, not sure if it was peer reviewed but it was a proper academic paper, they seemed to think that a lot of the paracetamol still got through though unless the temp was quite low.
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I'd love to see it if you happen to find where it was posted.
 
Solubility of acetaminophen decreases with temperature. I don't have any papers, but I'm sure it could easily be googled.
 
johanneschimpo said:
Solubility of acetaminophen decreases with temperature. I don't have any papers, but I'm sure it could easily be googled.
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Yeah I'm not disputing this at all, just that doctors are "taught about cwe" and actually conduct research on it to make sure it's safe.
 
rolls said:
Search all the cwe threads, as it was posted within the last 8 months or so in one of them.
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That's probably 3-4 dozen threads, haha! I'll have to look tomorrow as I'm on my phone and it's not playing nice with the search function.
 
dokomo said:
That's probably 3-4 dozen threads, haha! I'll have to look tomorrow as I'm on my phone and it's not playing nice with the search function.
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I meant one of the 3 major ones.
 
i use some dhc and paracetamol pills which have to be crushed to some degree or they take 24 hours to dissolve. Seriously. And if i use hot water then cool it down what is the problem?
 
at a certain temperature codeines (aswell as DHC, i assume) potency is destroyed, dont use hot water, 2muchpain.:)
 
@ The_Idler, I agree with the pointlessness of heating the water, dissolving the tablets and then cooling it down. I usually use cool water, around 20 degrees C, stir crushed tablets for about 20 seconds and filter, seems to be pretty effective.

However, is it at all possible to have a supersaturated solution of extracted codeine by using heated water and slowly cooling it? That's the only reason I can think of doing it for. Of course, I would think that the agitation of the solution when filtering would cause the extra codeine to crystallise out. I don't know, anyone got some answers?
 
Codeine is massively soluble, you can dissolve many many grams in just a few ml of water, you'd never saturate the solution with it. However the paracetamol would very quickly saturate the solution so I have no idea how these two interact.
 
yeah diddy, you are not recrystallizing anything, so there is no point in heating/cooling to try and saturate the solution at a particular point (it doesn't matter about this because the CWE works because of an equilibrium at one particular temperature, purification is not the issue).

and yea, im no expert;
i couldnt decide whether the good Doctor was way above my chemistry knowledge, or just completely bullshitting.

The last post kind of takes the piss with what we are expected to believe, though...
 
monstanoodle said:
There's no need for any condescending talk from anyone here. Whether said person is right or wrong, it's just not needed. So let's just agree to disagree. People can believe what they want, and they will also make up their mind as to which method is suitable for them.
End of...
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Well in the interest of harm reduction I think everyone here would like people to be doing things right. I think it was Mr Blonde who said multiple CWE's a day done improperly could leave you with dangerously high level's of Paracetemol in your system. It really is crucial to get it right.

From the desk of D. Mal MD CWE's
 
For my second Percocet experience, I crushed and swallowed (in a half-cup of water) 4 Perc pills, each consisting of 5 milligrams of oxycodone and 325 mg of APAP.

I did a Cold Water Extraction, but skipped the very last step of filtering the cold water mixture through a coffee filter, because I discovered that filtering through a coffee filter would take an hour or more.

So after chilling the water mixture in the refrigerator for 50 minutes, I just drank the water and tried to avoid much of the APAP that had accumulated at the bottom of the water jar. Most of the sludge at the bottom didn't reach my lips.

By skipping the final step of filtering the water through a coffee filter, what percentage of the total APAP do you think I drank: 20%, 50%, or 70% of the APAP ?
 
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