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☮ Social ☮ PD Social Tripping Thread: aLL aBoArD tHe MoThErShiP 👽🛸

You know I thought I was enjoying horror movies on mushrooms but it is starting to unsettle me lol not a horror fan really this movie tonight the reviews are amazing but boy is it a tough cookie to chew on revolting in a sense fast forwarding lol care enough to keep it on see what happens finally I guess nostalgic of the lead actor who is terrific in this despite the difficulty in viewing the events unfold for him

getting tired of other stuff reaching for a jolt more than I bargained for
 
iom said:
Sorry that it's taken me so long to finish my replies to you! The holiday week provided many distractions, and I had much less time for activities like writing. On top of that, I've had a multi-day migraine headache all weekend---the worst I've had since I started taking psychedelics again. Hopefully it will be all gone tomorrow, and I can do my next 2C-B trial. I'll post my last reply tomorrow if I'm not too tired.
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Hey @iom, it’s all good. There’s no rush, even normally, but I’m really benefiting from the break I’m taking too, and again I appreciate you understanding that. I’ve also been busy for the holidays but I finally managed to start getting to sleep earlier most nights again and I don’t have to see any more family for a while, so I intend to return soon. I may wait until you’ve finished your last reply if that’s alright, then I can just take it all in together.

I hope you’re feeling better. :) And I hope your trials are going well too. I actually had a marvelous psychedelic experience today on some mushrooms my cousin gave me. My first mushroom trip in over a decade I believe…. It was a really nice one. It was very refreshing and gave me a lot to think about.

Talk more again soon!
 
emkee_reinvented said:
But you actually feel Valerian, or witnessing placebo. So what does it feel like? Ime its worthless and does nothing.
Pure Valerenic Acid though ( never tried ) might be nice. The extracts contain hardly any.
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I actually do feel valerian mildly. However it is not all that pleasant except for sleep. And I wake up groggy. So honestly I don't use it at all. I have it with the other sleep drugs I can't use, useless for me. Anti psychotics or antihistamines. I tried both like twice and can't use them do to feeling weird the next day as well as the brain fog. Trazedone and quetiapine I tried twice and can't use. I had been given them in a rehab for sleep and decided to not even take it. Cannabis works well enough for me for sleep so I stick with that. An occasional benzo.

I do remember however one time coming off poppy tea I could not sleep at all. I even took 120 mgs of codeine one night and nothing. But a small amount of valerian let me sleep for 1 1/2 hours. That may very well be the last time I took it.
 
Speaking of food, I just heard a psychedelic salon podcast close off with "keep the lasagna flying over Vatican City". A Robert Anton Wilson quote, apparently.

Anybody able to give me the rundown of what that means?

(I'd love to follow Lorenzo's lead and actually check out the books, but you know, priorities..)


(Edit: still getting a lot of synchronicities telling me I should kill myself. Whoever is holding a grudge against me, I hope we can settle our differences in a civil manner with mutually beneficial outcomes)
 
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Kaleida said:
I am aware of this and think it's really cool. I know scientists right now seemed to be focused on the idea that the 5-HT2A-mGluR2 heterodimer might be the one "responsible for psychedelic effects" or whatever as they say, but I have to say, I'm incredibly suspicious about the 5-HT2A-CB1 heterodimer playing some critical role too given how psychedelic cannabinoids can be too. I have read a paper that said that both 5-HT2A and CB1 receptor agonists signal similarly through the heterodimer at least when applied separately (they interestingly have some antagonistic effects when applied simultaneously) so there is at least one clear plausible explanation for how 5-HT2A receptor agonists and CB1 receptors agonists could at least separately could affect the brain in the same sort of way as one another. I'm really not exaggerating when I say that a strong cannabis edible trip to me is a lot like a lysergamide.... If you gave me that first really good 50 mg oral trip I had and made it so I had no conception of what cannabis trips were like prior to that and didn't know that's what that was and you told me to guess, I think I'd almost certainly guess that it was a lysergamide of some kind that was given to me, with just the slightest suspicion of why it felt a little bit like cannabis.
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As hinted at in an earlier post of mine, when I smoke cannabis within some days of weeks of a recent serotonergic psychedelic drug experience, I tend to experience a kind of simulated replay of the effects. I never understood how this was possible, and was kind of skeptical about it with myself. Once in a while the effect was so strong as to catch me off guard. A couple times when smoking someone else's weed, I had to talk myself down in my head that the weed wasn't laced. (I don't think it was---I was just seeing crazy shit and having paranoid thoughts!)

Anyway, only recently have I learned about the 5ht2a/CB1 heterodimers, and I have to wonder if they play a role in my experiences with post-trip cannabis. When I was young, I also tended to experience cannabis of providing a simulated replay of not just psychedelics but other drugs I might have recently taken. Perhaps this is enabled via heterodimers involving CB1 and other receptor types? Another question I have, but have not dug enough to figure out whether it's answered is how dynamic the expression of these heterodimers are. Like, are there just a bunch of things with 5ht2a+CB1s receptors hanging around all the time? Or is their expression highly subject to environmental changes?

On another note, last week I tried a cannabis edible for the first time in over a decade. It was only 10 mg. I don't think I liked it much. I'm a very regular but light smoker, and I wanted to test out its potential in casual/public environments. For what it's worth, it did not resemble LSD to me at all, nor has any past cannabis edible experience of mine. It definitely kept me high without having to smoke anything, which is a big plus, but the effects were much less casual and more overtly psychedelic. It's weird because I probably could have tolerated 20 mg just fine, but even at 10 mg, I just felt too edgy to want to be in most public places. In the past, I usually ate food made from lower grade weed, so I think I'll have to try different formulas to maybe find something mellower.

Kaleida said:
This is the kind of stuff I spent most of my many years using psychedelics actively thinking about. I used to try to connect the specific subjective effects I got from each one to different functional activity and signaling pathways known and documented for all the different molecules I was using in different scientific studies, but I kind of grew out of it once I realized from going through enough different ideas and enough different research papers that it was just too complicated a picture that we had too little visibility of so far for me to truly satisfactorily figure out if meaningfully figure out at all in the way that I was hoping to.

I felt that I was starting to hold back my conception of the drugs I was taking by trying them to fit them to the mold of my theories in my mind, so I decided to stop doing that (very explicitly) and start just paying more attention to the effects I get and comparing and contrasting the drugs more generally and stuff in those ways.

However, that's just me wanting to make sure I wasn't jumping to conclusions about my trips. I definitely understand the value in understanding pathways like this for the sake of making things like targeted medications. It is certainly extremely complex though. It's part of why I find the differences in each psychedelic so fascinating even when not discussing it specifically, I know there are more than just small differences amounting to those subjective distinctions.
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This part has been very difficult for me to respond to because I have so many thoughts, and I can't really write them all down. I'm also constantly thinking about these things. In person, I could probably talk for many hours. I completely relate to and sympathize with what you've said here. I definitely agree that it's important to avoid allowing theoretical preconceptions to contaminate future experiences. This is much easier said than done, and I know I'm guilty of this as most of us are.

My recent experiences with 2C-B really highlight this. A long time ago, I always wanted to try 2C-B but could only find 2C-I for several years. I regarded 2C-I to be a "slightly more potent, longer lasting, more stimulating version of 2C-B", based on the chemical analogy and subjective reports. I became very familiar with 2C-I, and I looked forward to trying its mellower, short-duration cousin. In the early days, I also got to experiment with 2C-C, which I likened to a "extra mellow" version of 2C-I, but I don't feel I got to know it well despite 3 or 4 times with it. In any case, when I finally tried 2C-B, I was very disappointed. Instead of finding a superior version of 2C-I, I found an inferior one. (See what I did there?)

Only now, 1.5 decades later, I've revisited 2C-B and discovered that its effect is much less 2C-I than I'd assumed. I'm not sure it much resembles 2C-C either, but my memories of that are distant. If I didn't know better already, I wouldn't guess they were chemically very close. By evaluating 2C-B on its own terms rather than trying to compare it to 2C-I, I can now identify qualities that are unique and pleasing about it. While 2C-B is certainly not going to be my favorite, I think that in the future I will probably use it more than 2C-I.

So I guess I need to be more careful reaching conclusions by chemical analogy. Maybe 4-HO-DET can be like mescaline even though it's a tryptamine and is chemically similar to psilocin. I mean, I've always felt that of the ones I've tried, phenethylamines and tryptamines feel quite distinct as categories. And LSD seems to me a bit more phen than trypt but still very distinct. Sometimes I wonder though. It's a shame that the time courses of phens vs. LSD vs. trypts are so different (and easily identified, IMO) because it would be interesting to try to blindly test myself in my ability to discern what I've taken.

The last thing I'll say here is that I have rather suddenly found myself more interested in the pharmacology than I would have been because I'm interested in the physiological healing aspects. The interesting thing is that I think it would be easier to study 5ht2a in the peripheral body than in the brain, and such studies might lead to very interesting insights. These insights may in turn facilitate understanding of the brain being that many mechanisms may work analogously (e.g. inflammation causing both physical and psychic pain).

Something that would be very helpful to science is to discover one or more naturally occurring ligands that are 5ht2a (and/or 5ht2b/c) selective because monitoring such a ligand in physiological processes might give deeper insight into what those receptors are actually for. I'm seeing strong indications that these receptors are very important for modulating all manner of bodily processes, and therefore, it may be expected that monkeying with them using psychedelics may be producing a wide variety of interesting outcomes, even ignoring what's going on in the brain.

Most intriguing is how much 5ht2a seems to be involved in wound response including immune modulation, inflammation, and tissue regeneration. There's so much going on there, that it should be taken very seriously. That is to say that various psychedelics appear capable of exerting strong effects directly on the body and which may very directly impact physiological health. These effects could be positive, negative, or both. I'll just emphasize again that 5ht2a is multi-fuctional, and psychedelics have a balance of effects qualitatively distinct from each other and from serotonin. The history of indigenous use of certain psychedelic plants certainly suggests that most of the benefits of using these plants are positive. Regardless, these things should be investigated for as many psychedelic drugs as reasonably possible, both to improve knowledge of safe use and to learn more about how to potentially accelerate healing of the body.

Kaleida said:
Thanks for the responses again. :)
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Thank you likewise!
 
elgoucho9 said:
Interesting 2C-B being active active at those doses. I always assumed 10mg would be threshold dosing, with 15-25mg being optimum for a nice colourful time.
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A few things. I am a bit sensitive to psychedelics, I think, possibly transiently so because of the state of my health. I may also be a bit *more* sensitive to 2C-B than most other phenethylamines. At the time of the 2mg, I could get mild colorful visuals from smoking weed alone, probably influenced significantly by a 20 mg 2C-D trip 1.5ish weeks before. And of course, I boosted with lots of cannabis. For a few complicated reasons, I'm experimenting extensively with doses that are active (not "micro" doses, lol) but which keep me below a full (+++). So far my recent 8 mg 2C-E trip did feel (+++) even though it wasn't visually intense, but most of my recent experiments have only been (+) or (++). That will probably change soon, but I keep shying away for various reasons, mostly because I'm impatient and want to reintroduce myself (after 11+ year abstinence) to old 2C allies which may prove useful in different ways.
 
Kaleida said:
I hope you’re feeling better. :) And I hope your trials are going well too. I actually had a marvelous psychedelic experience today on some mushrooms my cousin gave me. My first mushroom trip in over a decade I believe…. It was a really nice one. It was very refreshing and gave me a lot to think about.
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I'm glad you had a good mushroom trip! I actually had a lot of excellent mushroom trips, despite the fact that I reliably rank shrooms below many other psychedelics. I enjoyed them a lot at low doses in small groups of friends. Even at small doses, I feel like the ego effects are strong, and I like the ego softening a lot. I just have to avoid taking too much or I'll "go fetal", lol.

I am feeling very good lately. I actually felt like my health was setback a bit during the holiday, perhaps because of some combination of eating too much free fructose and likely being exposed to a lot of ambient SARS2 and other crap, which may have not been infectious to me but likely has had my immune system overly active in my gut and brain. Then there was the emotional turmoil of familial relationship issues on one side and stress involving a visit from the other. Then there was the horrible 3 day migraine. All things considered, I didn't feel too bad, but I definitely didn't feel like I was "in remission", especially with the migraine hitting me like it did.

On New Years Day my head was finally clear and I took 7.5 mg 2C-B. I posted a short report to the B&D thread. I'm now contemplating the timing and substance for my next experiment. I've been thinking a lot about mescaline cacti lately. I hear the calling strongly, but the weather forecast doesn't look to be very friendly to a desert plant spirit any time soon. Maybe it will forgive me. I do intend to titrate it like the others so I can assess its mental as well as physiological effects (as best I can) at the lower doses. Cacti may be the best option (other than psilocybin) for other people to use to treat themselves medicinally, so I definitely think it's worth exploring thoroughly.

Anyway, I hope your week is going well!
 
Chris Timothy said:
"keep the lasagna flying over Vatican City". A Robert Anton Wilson quote, apparently.

Anybody able to give me the rundown of what that means?
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I don't actually know but I'm going to guess it's something to do with the Flying Spaghetti Monster! 🙂

(I realise for anyone who is not already aware, that explanation is not going to clarify anything in the slightest... 😅 so... the Flying Spaghetti Monster [FSM] could be summed up as the supreme deity of a modern, somewhat deliberately absurd "religion" whose adherents, not unjustifiably, would consider the ideals represented and emspaghettified by the FSM as superior, more enlightened, just generally better and less archaic, suppressive, backwards when compared to those represented and "embodied" by Jesus Christ and the Abrahamic deities, or at least, the interpretations of those latter things that the Vatican represents.

So, I guess it's a call for the continued triumph of progressive modern ideals over the oppressive ideals of ancient times. Or it could quite possibly be a literal call to FSM fundamentalists for Spaghetti- or Lasagne-Jihad. Or... I could be totally wrong.)
 
Vastness said:
😅 so... the Flying Spaghetti Monster [FSM] could be summed up as the supreme deity of a modern, somewhat deliberately absurd "religion" whose adherents, not unjustifiably, would consider the ideals represented and emspaghettified by the FSM as superior, more enlightened, just generally better and less archaic, suppressive, backwards when compared to those represented and "embodied" by Jesus Christ and the Abrahamic deities, or at least, the interpretations of those latter things that the Vatican represents.
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At last, a religion I can relate to. I'm in!

Can you give us a flavour of what ideals are "emspaghttified by the FSM"? I already know they'd be more palatable than the other shite 'on offer'
 
Chris Timothy said:
(Edit: still getting a lot of synchronicities telling me I should kill myself. Whoever is holding a grudge against me, I hope we can settle our differences in a civil manner with mutually beneficial outcomes)
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CT just to make a point. Remember the old sit coms on TV some years back? You may or may not. (Gilligan's Island comes to mind, I Dream of Jeanie etc...) But one of the notions in some of them is people putting curses on people or people having a little doll of that person. A voodoo doll. And of course if a person stuck a pin in the doll the person would feel a pinch. Or if fire is put on the dolls feet the person feels the heat. I mean it is comedy for a reason in those shows. Basically the notion is nothing can harm a person once they realize their internal power. Nothing. Sort of like how the magnetic waves surrounding the Earth protect it from so much. So I will say this because I agree with @perpetualdawn. You are getting synchronicities here wanting you to stick around and keep participating. Telling you to live. So put that out of your mind. 2024 needs CT at his best. Grudges only hurt the people holding them so if someone has one against you frig em. So even if someone did hold a grudge it is on them. So I leave it with you to keep posting and any voice or anything that does not nurture you but harm is to be released if it comes to you. It becomes a habit getting a grip on them. Already know you have the strength. I always tell crazy thoughts to get lost. Like this:



Cosmic thought. I don't believe we have our own original thoughts. Thought are vibes and frequencies. It is said thoughts are things. So they get omitted and go out into the ether. Setting your vibe in a way can attract or repel. Sort of like a google search engine. Like brings back alike. A quick recommendation on thoughts, and what works for me at least for a few moments. I count my blessings in the midst of my misery. Seems to be a vibe switch to attract similar vibed thoughts until it snowballs and gains positive momentum. We have all at one time or another "put thoughts ouf of our head" so they don't manifest. I always wondered what that was.

Anyhow I thought we were all going to stay out of the shrine for a bit. 2024 more about life. I am here as you are here as you are me and we are all together. :)

I remember reading The Cosmic Trigger by Robert Anton Wilson years ago. I like the large ideas. Glad he wrote some books. The world can use another RAW.
 
JackARoe said:
Sort of like how the magnetic waves surrounding the Earth protect it from so much.
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Though also eventually the Earth's magnetic polarity will reverse over a period of anywhere from 1 - 10 centuries. Among other things like radio frequencies and compasses not working, the Internet will fail, cellphones won't work, and there will be a bit of a dark ages most likely if humans are still around for the event and its aftermath..

JackARoe said:
Cosmic thought. I don't believe we have our own original thoughts.
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Yeah I completely agree with this 100%. For example, I'm an artist (and musician) and sometimes my work will be up in a gallery and someone might ask me, "Wow, where do you come up with all these ideas?" and I have no answer that's easy to explain. It's like I have to stop trying and just let the ideas come to me, and they don't even feel like their my ideas, even though they are. It almost doesn't feel fair. I just sorta tap into some collective superconscious of creativity and that mind, if you will, provides me the inspiration, ideas, and provocation necessary to make my art. And what's crazy is I've heard other artists say the same basic thing. Musicians, too. The thoughts just seem to drift to my via the antenna receiver wetware device I call my brain. And it's been like this since I was a child.

JackARoe said:
Thought are vibes and frequencies. It is said thoughts are things.
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Sure, and there are supposedly 'thought beings'. Some people claim that even if we think God doesn't exist, the very fact that there is a huge consensual hallucination of an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent being makes that being a thought being and solidifies God's reality this way. I tend to think, maybe, but only if we really loosen the definition of God.

JackARoe said:
So they get omitted and go out into the ether. Setting your vibe in a way can attract or repel. Sort of like a google search engine. Like brings back alike. A quick recommendation on thoughts, and what works for me at least for a few moments. I count my blessings in the midst of my misery.
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Oh cool, that works… me? I smoke weed, lol

JackARoe said:
Seems to be a vibe switch to attract similar vibed thoughts until it snowballs and gains positive momentum. We have all at one time or another "put thoughts ouf of our head" so they don't manifest. I always wondered what that was.
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It's like that one best seller a decade or two ago called "The Secret" which proposed the secret to success was to envision your own success. While that might be a true and a component of a person motivating themselves into passion for success, I think there's a crucial thing missing from that equation: taking action. Visualizing success is not the only thing necessary for success, and while that sounds obvious I think what holds so many people back from success is because they don't muster up the gumption to take a chance on something and take action to strive quickly-but-steadily toward the goals they want in this world. Life is fleeting, friends. Ars longa, vita brevis.

JackARoe said:
Anyhow I thought we were all going to stay out of the shrine for a bit. 2024 more about life. I am here as you are here as you are me and we are all together. :)
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I've often thought there's only one of us anyway.

JackARoe said:
I remember reading The Cosmic Trigger by Robert Anton Wilson years ago. I like the large ideas. Glad he wrote some books. The world can use another RAW.
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RAW was the best – there was a spell in the 90s when I was obsessed w/The Illuminatus Trilogy and J. R. “Bob” Dobbs and the Church of the Subgenius.
 
Pfafffed said:
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Did you write something? All I see is a full stop.

J/k, I've always seen the fnords.

MV5BYjdmMGRiNDQtNzJiNS00ZWFkLTliNTQtMGNjMjUyMWUwYWY5XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzA1NDc0Nzg@._V1_.jpg
 
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