EADD Heroin thread v.XXV -- a quarter centuary of threads if not yet a full decade since the 'drought'...

[ageingpartyfiend]

PIHKAL to me is "Pound shops I have known and loved"

What?

Hang on, it's not "People I Have Killed and Liquified"???

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

What?

Hang on, it's not "People I Have Killed and Liquified"???

That's the 2nd edition, I tell folks where the best drain cleaning acid and Lye is available for £1.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

What?

Hang on, it's not "People I Have Killed and Liquified"???

I've never forgotten the thread where @fastandbulbous and I both are fans of watching Dexter to take notes / tips on his techniques.

I wonder where Pete556 / Ganjcat has got to? I swear he didn't get chopped up in my bath then soaked in a copper tub for 3 days in a mixture of 60% Lye 40% water

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I wonder where Pete556 / Ganjcat has got to? I swear he didn't get chopped up in my bath then soaked in a copper tub for 3 days in a mixture of 60% Lye 40% water

tbh I wouldn't put it past you...only if you were on a crack comedown though

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

tbh I wouldn't put it past you...only if you were on a crack comedown though

I've cut right back on that stuff, it would make my temper so bad.

 

[AlsoTapered]

It's cheaper to give Methadone scripts than Heroin scripts?
I assumed it was more work to make methadone than heroin.

What kind of precursors do you need to make methadone compared to heroin? I'm not a chemist so try to keep it in simple terms.

It's clear you know chemistry stuff but my knowledge ends at removing the HCL from stuff to make it freebase sadly. I'm not even a Mr Gupta's Discount store Shulgin

PIHKAL to me is "Pound shops I have known and loved"

Why not simply look at the online BNF.

The price of medicinal diamorphine has significantly dropped in price over the last couple of years because the NHS ended the McFarlene-Smith monopoly but I find it interesting that the prices more or less equal the street price so someone is still making a massive profit, Before that, the monopoly price was around £500/gram.

Methadone costs around ten times less for equipotent (in analgesic terms) for the injectable form.

Now oral methadone solution works out at around £1 per 100mg of active.

So a tremendous difference.

Chemically raecemic methadone is very simple to make. The cost is $350-$1200 depending upon the specific standards required.

Now (R)-methadone really should be the standard because it's far less cardiotoxic, but since most people associate methadone with 'junkies', they are prepared to allow a dangerous drug to be used. Did you know that Hoechst 10820 (the candidate name for methadone - or Dolorphine as it was named) failed safety trials. Fun fact, Hoechst 8909 became pethidine (Demerol). So the German scientists resolved the (R) isomer and named it Polamidon. In the THIRTIES the toxicity of (S) methadone were known!

Still, who wouldn't buy a Kg of methadone at those prices. It would kill the street trade in opioids stone dead in days. If pharmacies could sell it on as 1mg/ml solution with 1l costing $10 they would still be making a huge profit AND starving the dealers. But we, the public, are too dumb to be trusted.

 

[fastandbulbous]

But we, the public, are too dumb to be trusted.

Experience has shown that along with that big pharma and politicians are too greedy to be trusted...

Also, 'Breaking Bad' was accurate that the best way to dissolve a body is hydrofluoric acid is much better at dissolving bodies than sulphuric acid (calcium sulphate is fairly insoluble, whereas calcium halides are really soluble. Collect enough bottles of drain cleaner ie conc. hydrochloric acid and it will dissolve a body much faster!)

 

[fastandbulbous]

I've never forgotten the thread where @fastandbulbous and I both are fans of watching Dexter to take notes / tips on his techniques.

I wonder where Pete556 / Ganjcat has got to? I swear he didn't get chopped up in my bath then soaked in a copper tub for 3 days in a mixture of 60% Lye 40% water

Human soap (soap is made from fats and sodium hydroxide). Quite literally, The Body Shop soap!

 

[BadBoy377]

That's the 2nd edition, I tell folks where the best drain cleaning acid and Lye is available for £1.

I would legitimately buy that. You could include sources of cheap non polar solvent too!

 

[AlsoTapered]

Experience has shown that along with that big pharma and politicians are too greedy to be trusted...

Also, 'Breaking Bad' was accurate that the best way to dissolve a body is hydrofluoric acid is much better at dissolving bodies than sulphuric acid (calcium sulphate is fairly insoluble, whereas calcium halides are really soluble. Collect enough bottles of drain cleaner ie conc. hydrochloric acid and it will dissolve a body much faster!)

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

^^^^^ that guy looks like the living embodiment of the mad scientist trope aahaha

 

[fastandbulbous]

I did wonder whether the oxyhalogenic acids would be better (oxidize the flash as well, but knew the halide acids were bloody good ). Perchlorate acid caused bloody big holes in my lab coat and a pair of jeans, that looked like I had giant, mutant moths!

 

[AlsoTapered]

It's interesting (to me) that the most common fatal lab accidents involve hydrofluoric acid because that -F will form all manner of fluorides that are themselves toxic. It's also not immediately painful unlike burns with strong acids. I think the record is 50ml killing an Australian geologist.

Apparently it's used frequently in some niche fields of geology and it's that classic 'monkey logic'. People who handle a material day in, day out will slowly lose their fear because they unconsciously think that as time goes on they are statistically less likely to come to harm.

I do know that if it's spilt onto a limb, even if promptly treated with a tourniquet and calcium gluconate, ER doctors will often amputate limbs because those toxic fluorides kill.

Note that they use plastic containers throughout - contact with glass is... impressive.

I was told a great story by an industrial chemist. His company was contracted to set up a production line and one step involved them building a 10000l tank lined with borosilicate glass plates. This was intended to be filled with industrial 37% hydrochloric acid which would be heated to hydrolize an intermediate. They install it, filled it with water and heated to check all was well. Then they drained it, added the acid set it off and knocked off for a pie, a pint and a kip with a view to checking that all was well next day.

Next day they arrive and the 'hydrolizer' is empty with some 7000l of HCl having caused considerable damage to anything close to the reactor. A leak? Well, in a WAY.

It turned out that the industrial hydrochloric acid had traces of hydrofluoric acid in it and as he described it, the half inch thick borosilicate glass lining the reactor had been etched away until the lining failed and then the hot HCl went on happily through the mild steel shell.

That, I feel, is a useful warning. When idiots think it's fine to simply use commercial muriatic acid in the synthesis of compounds intended for consumption... don't.

It really isn't difficult to obtain reagent grade chemicals.

 

[fastandbulbous]

It's interesting (to me) that the most common fatal lab accidents involve hydrofluoric acid because that -F will form all manner of fluorides that are themselves toxic. It's also not immediately painful unlike burns with strong acids. I think the record is 50ml killing an Australian geologist.

Apparently it's used frequently in some niche fields of geology and it's that classic 'monkey logic'. People who handle a material day in, day out will slowly lose their fear because they unconsciously think that as time goes on they are statistically less likely to come to harm.

I do know that if it's spilt onto a limb, even if promptly treated with a tourniquet and calcium gluconate, ER doctors will often amputate limbs because those toxic fluorides kill.

Note that they use plastic containers throughout - contact with glass is... impressive.

I was told a great story by an industrial chemist. His company was contracted to set up a production line and one step involved them building a 10000l tank lined with borosilicate glass plates. This was intended to be filled with industrial 37% hydrochloric acid which would be heated to hydrolize an intermediate. They install it, filled it with water and heated to check all was well. Then they drained it, added the acid set it off and knocked off for a pie, a pint and a kip with a view to checking that all was well next day.

Next day they arrive and the 'hydrolizer' is empty with some 7000l of HCl having caused considerable damage to anything close to the reactor. A leak? Well, in a WAY.

It turned out that the industrial hydrochloric acid had traces of hydrofluoric acid in it and as he described it, the half inch thick borosilicate glass lining the reactor had been etched away until the lining failed and then the hot HCl went on happily through the mild steel shell.

That, I feel, is a useful warning. When idiots think it's fine to simply use commercial muriatic acid in the synthesis of compounds intended for consumption... don't.

It really isn't difficult to obtain reagent grade chemicals.

Yep, fluoride salts are to red blood cells what cyanides are to all other cells (they decouple oxidative phosphorylation).
So kiddies, don't swallow toothpastes or you might find yourselves dead!

 

[AlsoTapered]

We had to watch footage of a HF fatality and what was horrific was that, well, it wasn't visually graphic,

Not like Breaking Bad.



Here we are - why hydrogen fluoride is so scary. Those workers were NOT trained in the handling and, well, they learnt the hard way.

It was at a semiconductor fabrication facility for cleaning purposes. I believe now they even use chlorine trifluoride - I BET it works!!!

 

[LoginNotSecure]

Experience has shown that along with that big pharma and politicians are too greedy to be trusted...

Also, 'Breaking Bad' was accurate that the best way to dissolve a body is hydrofluoric acid is much better at dissolving bodies than sulphuric acid (calcium sulphate is fairly insoluble, whereas calcium halides are really soluble. Collect enough bottles of drain cleaner ie conc. hydrochloric acid and it will dissolve a body much faster!)

A mixture of hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide would be better, surely.

 

[fastandbulbous]

A mixture of hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide would be better, surely.

Hydrogen peroxide isn't as good an oxidising agent as it sounds (liver has peroxidase, which catalyses peroxide breakdown). Conc HCl will do the job, just takes a bit of time. Conc nitric acid would most probably do the job, except it's controlled under the explosives act (it's useful for making TNT etc)

 

[AlsoTapered]

Hydrochloric acid catalyzes the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide so no, it's not usable.

Hydrochloric acid alone will work and is used in such vast quantities that one can order those 1000l cubes of it. It would be by far the safest option because hydrofluoric acid is something to avoid wherever possible and while it is used commercially, I'm pretty sure that it's harder to obtain in quantity.

I can't help thinking that in this day and age, using large volumes of a corrosive liquid isn't likely to go undetected. History does demonstrate that law enforcement gets very suspicious of people who obtain such items and are connected to someone who disappeared.

Why is everyone discussing this? If you are involved in an enterprise where disposing of bodies becomes an issue, safe to say you made some VERY bad choices.

 

[blondin]

...There's only one type of acid I have an interest in

 

[AlsoTapered]

Ironically, LSD is an amide...