Overpowering suboxone?

[DGray12880]

Question for the experts. I have been on suboxone, 16 mg a day, for about 2 months. About a week ago I cut down to 8 mg a day. No signs of withdrawal or discomfort for decreasing the dose. Any how. Today I came into about 200 (4 mg) hydromorphone tablets. I understand that taking them only 12 hours after my last dose of suboxone will not affect me much or at all. My question is that if I were to take 12 mg and then wait 30 minutes and take another 12 mg and keep repeating this process, will it eventually overpower the suboxone I have in my system? I know it may seem like a waste of pills to many people but I would like to know please. I will be plugging these by the way. Thanks!

 

[CfZrx]

Question for the experts. I have been on suboxone, 16 mg a day, for about 2 months. About a week ago I cut down to 8 mg a day. No signs of withdrawal or discomfort for decreasing the dose. Any how. Today I came into about 200 (4 mg) hydromorphone tablets. I understand that taking them only 12 hours after my last dose of suboxone will not affect me much or at all. My question is that if I were to take 12 mg and then wait 30 minutes and take another 12 mg and keep repeating this process, will it eventually overpower the suboxone I have in my system? I know it may seem like a waste of pills to many people but I would like to know please. I will be plugging these by the way. Thanks!

I can not advise, but I know an albino Kangaroo who used to to think that if she were to take opioids AFTER suboxone, she would feel ill, but then I heard she learned that in fact it was the exact opposite, and that if she took the normal opioids AND THEN suboxone, she would get quite sick from the sub tearing the opioids off the receptors, in effect precipitating withdrawal.
But, like I said, she was just a weasel I mean a Kangaroo!

 

[Glutenfreedrugs]

The reason u wouldn’t be able to do this is bc of the narcan. It’s blocking out any drugs and stays in your system for a little bit so i would wait at least 2 days if not more

 

[oxymoronccc]

The naxolone is inactive just a preventative for shooting up, the bupe is what rips opioids off receptors, fam done this w fent and waited 24 hrs after last dose ,it was ok but norcos would be pointless, 1mg sub equates to round 30 or so mg oxy or sum like that I don't remember the exact conversion but the point is tolerance would be soo high after using sub's for some time,that's just IMO but yea taking dope after sub's won't make u sick persay but taking sub's after dope will id wait the 2 or so days to jump back on sub's or ease it in with micro doses until ur back at 16 mg if u are going to do this, but man if ur on sub's or opioid maintenance ur not doing ur self any favors...I can't talk tho I did the same mostly with
meth though only once w fentinal

 

[Man67]

Question for the experts. I have been on suboxone, 16 mg a day, for about 2 months. About a week ago I cut down to 8 mg a day. No signs of withdrawal or discomfort for decreasing the dose. Any how. Today I came into about 200 (4 mg) hydromorphone tablets. I understand that taking them only 12 hours after my last dose of suboxone will not affect me much or at all. My question is that if I were to take 12 mg and then wait 30 minutes and take another 12 mg and keep repeating this process, will it eventually overpower the suboxone I have in my system? I know it may seem like a waste of pills to many people but I would like to know please. I will be plugging these by the way. Thanks!

I have a similar situation as I am tapering Suboxone as well. It ruined all my teeth in just a one year and I have to quit ASAP. I am on Suboxone for pain, not for addiction. At the moment I take 4mg and every 10 days l reduce the dose by 1mg. I know that the last 2mg are the most difficult part so I am asking for help. Is there anything that can ease the withdrawal symptoms? I am seeing my Dr. next month and would like to know before that which options do l have? Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I have a similar situation as I am tapering Suboxone as well. It ruined all my teeth in just a one year and I have to quit ASAP. I am on Suboxone for pain, not for addiction. At the moment I take 4mg and every 10 days l reduce the dose by 1mg. I know that the last 2mg are the most difficult part so I am asking for help. Is there anything that can ease the withdrawal symptoms? I am seeing my Dr. next month and would like to know before that which options do l have? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Dissociatives (NMDA receptor antagonists) - I withdrew from 4mg bupe without tapering or any discomfort while using deschloroketamine. Unfortunately that one is a research chemical and can't be prescribed yet, but memantine can. There is some documentation about it's use against opioid tolerance on pubmed but mostly it's pretty unknown yet powerful interaction. If you can't get memantine then possibly dextromethorphan which is OTC in most countries might do it.

 

[Man67]

[/QUOTE]

Dissociatives (NMDA receptor antagonists) - I withdrew from 4mg bupe without tapering or any discomfort while using deschloroketamine. Unfortunately that one is a research chemical and can't be prescribed yet, but memantine can. There is some documentation about it's use against opioid tolerance on pubmed but mostly it's pretty unknown yet powerful interaction. If you can't get memantine then possibly dextromethorphan which is OTC in most countries might do it.

Thanks a lot mate. Unfortunately I am taking Zoloft which apparently interacts with dextromethorphan. What about Bromazepam? I am taking 3mg at night for sleep.

 

[Juicewrldfan]

To be honest, I’d just wait a few days. I doubt you will enjoy it. I’ve broke thru with fentanyl before but it was extremely dangerous and still wasn’t that strong…and that’s fent…

I do t fuck around with fent these days though and really advise against it. It’s a terrible drug.

You might be able to break thru with hydromorphone but I doubt it…wait three days minimum I’d say.

 

[>Jester<]

I never had much luck with this OP and when I was on subs and still using/rotating 1 day on 1 day off it just kind of sucked. If you want to continue using full agonist i would recomend getting off bupe
to answer your question though, IV fentanyl in my experience. but ive been narcanned quite a few times so take from that what you will

 

[Keif' Richards]

I would give them to someone else who might be able to make good use of them. This is a game in which you're never going to get the full enjoyment out of these pills. You will just end up going off the furrough regarding your Buprenorphine maintenance, run through the pills and be left with nothing positive to show for it. If you can't give them to anyone else to use, I would at least suggest putting them somewhere safe and using them one fine day when you're able to enjoy them. However, going through a successful course of Buprenorphine treatment only to immediately throw it away for more Opioids seems like a pretty big waste.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Buprenorphine Ki = 0.216 nM.
Fentanyl Ki = 1.2-1.6 nM.
Sufentanil Ki = 0.007-0.214 nM.
Carfentanil Ki = 0.03-0.08 nM.

BUT affinity isn't the whole story. A compound with a lower LogP, unfavourable pKa and/or unfavourable transport properties might not be anywhere like as active.

Diprenorphine Ki = 0.19 nM.

BUT diprenorphine has a much more favourable LogP & pKa. What is more, it's a silent agonist so it will test to occupy the vast majority of mu receptors.

The very rational Chinese have developed thienorphine with Ki = 0.14 nM and it's LogP and pKa are even better and it's duration is measured in DAYS. BUT if one were to exchange the N-methylcyclopropyl for an N-methyl then it would be about x12000 M in potency. I don't think anyone has tried replacing the N-methyl for an N-2-phenylethyl because it's duration wouldn't be very long but that might well be some x60000 M.

Now those are frightening numbers. The problem is that each individual has slightly different numbers of mu receptors and so the exact potency is impossible to nail down. The carfentanil deaths show that. EVEN if cut to what their testers thought was a 'decent dose' might well be fatal for 5% of the population.

I think nortilidine has a pretty high Ki but it's LogP isn't so good and thus it's only about as potent as M. And trust me, I've spent ages looking at the nortilidine scaffold. I found the reversed-ester and even contacted the guy who built the original Dreiding models to optimize the relative position of the benzene ring and the N: & but he couldn't wring out much more activity.

 

[Man67]

I would give them to someone else who might be able to make good use of them. This is a game in which you're never going to get the full enjoyment out of these pills. You will just end up going off the furrough regarding your Buprenorphine maintenance, run through the pills and be left with nothing positive to show for it. If you can't give them to anyone else to use, I would at least suggest putting them somewhere safe and using them one fine day when you're able to enjoy them. However, going through a successful course of Buprenorphine treatment only to immediately throw it away for more Opioids seems like a pretty big waste.

What if Suboxone just stop working overnight due to the Dr. prescription for Lorazepam. Despite being on Ativan (2.5mg) for just a couple of weeks there's no more benefits from Suboxone, only the side effects. It's been 2 months since that happened and I still can't find the way out of misery.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

ativan should go well with suboxone. You are lucky your doctor allows it. The lorazepam is not the issue unless you have a very unique brain.

Also the narcan thing is a myth it is the bupe itself that has such a hi binding affinity keeps about every opiate except fent from locking onto receptors. Im sure that was already explained by someone.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I

Dissociatives (NMDA receptor antagonists) - I withdrew from 4mg bupe without tapering or any discomfort while using deschloroketamine. Unfortunately that one is a research chemical and can't be prescribed yet, but memantine can. There is some documentation about it's use against opioid tolerance on pubmed but mostly it's pretty unknown yet powerful interaction. If you can't get memantine then possibly dextromethorphan which is OTC in most countries might do it.

I always noticed dextromethorphan helped the kick. Could you please elaborate on deschloroketamine. I would like very much to get off suboxone.

 

[Man67]

ativan should go well with suboxone. You are lucky your doctor allows it. The lorazepam is not the issue unless you have a very unique brain.

Also the narcan thing is a myth it is the bupe itself that has such a hi binding affinity keeps about every opiate except fent from locking onto receptors. Im sure that was already explained by someone.

Apparently I do have unique brain? I forgot to mention amitriptyline that also stopped working at the same time.

 

[Juicewrldfan]

What if Suboxone just stop working overnight due to the Dr. prescription for Lorazepam. Despite being on Ativan (2.5mg) for just a couple of weeks there's no more benefits from Suboxone, only the side effects. It's been 2 months since that happened and I still can't find the way out of misery.

I don’t think it’s the Ativan stopping it if anything they synergize. Bupe just stops giving that feeling after a while.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Apparently I do have unique brain? I forgot to mention amitriptyline that also stopped working at the same time.

It is certainly a possibility. Not a high one. But we are all different. How does amitriptyline work normally? I mean i know what category it falls into, ive even had some old dude try and off a handfull as "benzo or opi potentiators" which rang all the wrong bells and I passed on them.

 

[AlsoTapered]

It is certainly a possibility. Not a high one. But we are all different. How does amitriptyline work normally? I mean i know what category it falls into, ive even had some old dude try and off a handfull as "benzo or opi potentiators" which rang all the wrong bells and I passed on them.

Ah - you mean 'what's the theory and what's the truth'?

Well, in my case I could feel terribly depressed. I would pop a 25mg tablet into my mouth and hold it under my tongue. It burns a bit. But within 30 minutes I felt fine. Not high, just not depressed. IF I could just buy it from a pharmacy, I would. But only in the way that people buy paracetamol (acetaminophen) i.e. if you don't FEEL bad, it won't do anything for you. No abuse potential....

But after the accident I suffered severe depression (ended up by being sectioned) and so I was so happy that I had a pill that would remove that curse and the behavior that goes with it (suicide).

After 3 years, it stopped working. I haven't had it for a year and so my doctor is confident that it will work again. I hope so.

Amitriptyline & chloripramine are proven to be the best antidepressants (compared to 38 others) BUT the reasons it isn't commn:

1)Truth - no patent so no huge £££
1a)Excuse - it's toxic. Take a 28 day supply and it will kill you.... in case you don't have rope, fire or sufficiently large falls within moments of your home.

In short, they work - and not just me, but in the meta analyses papers I will find and send to you. BUT it doesn't suit everyone and the data is statistical so nobody can say for sure it WILL work and more specifically, in the manner it worked for me.

If you have ever had a pill habit? Do you know how you relax after you take the pill (but before when it should work), well amitriptyline under the tongue works in like 10 minutes....

I might add that I use clobazam the same way (as do my wife and son) and THEY all say how clobazam works in 2 minutes if dissolved under tongue.... but they aren't depressed so we cannot compare notes.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

as far as the pill habit, know exactly what you mean Id feel less dopesick the second I copped.

clobazam sounds interesting. I know clonazolam mixed with pg I could feel while it was still under my tongue. Same with alcohol mixture.

Thank you very much for the real world account of amitriptyline

 

[AlsoTapered]

as far as the pill habit, know exactly what you mean Id feel less dopesick the second I copped.

clobazam sounds interesting. I know clonazolam mixed with pg I could feel while it was still under my tongue. Same with alcohol mixture.

Thank you very much for the real world account of amitriptyline

My pleasure. As with all, YMMV but I am aware of the placebo effect so we tested it. Debz dissolved pills in 5mL of water and over 14 days randomly gave it on 7 days... and 100% I KNEW even thought the taste was the same (she used mitrazipine to give the taste).

But it's really, well, great when you feel really depressed and after a 25mg pill, I KNEW within 2 minutes I would feel better and within 1 hour, fine.
Yes, dissolve under tongue. If you haven't tried it, do so with a 10mg diazepam and I PROMISE you will KNOW the difference. Clobazam it's even MORE marked i.e. 45 minutes to 30 seconds.

Be really careful with any nitrobenzodiazepine (nitrazepam, nimetazepam, flunitrazepam, notflunitrazepam, nitrazolam, flunitrazolam and such) NOBODY seems to know why, but they display acute toxicity. 28 x 5mg nitrazepam will kill many people whereas 100 x 10mg diazepam will kill almost nobody.

The phenobarb is a god stopgap. Useful to have in in case a source lets you down.


I will make a prediction...

One day the price of flunitrazolam will go from £2/unit to £10/unit but they will ensure 24 hour delivery.... so people will get REALLY sick (seizures, death) after 24 hours and guess what/ Their is only 1 source of flunitrazolam OR the price is the same everywhere.

It's like people taking 5 x 'dirty 30s' i.e. 15mg of fentanyl and they cost £5 each. Next day they cost £20. How many of you feel you could drop 60mg of fentanyl in 1 day (equals 480mg of morphine).

Tell me, what is it like to drop 480mg of M in 1 day? OK so you buy H..... but H won't fix you because fentanyl binds to an extra site...... and if your H is only 50% pure... you will need a gram a day just to stand still.


Oh DO let me know how it goes. I do at least have SOME tricks to help all BLers avoid the traps.