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Harm Reduction ⫸Should I Try HEROIN?⫷

I think John Cooper Clarke said it best 'first it's fun, then it's not, then it's hell.' So I wonder where people are with their habits. I actually like rattling KNOWING I have medicines to make me well. OK so one has to suffer, but rattling by installments beats rattling all at once.
 
If you feel like you're already 'addicted' after only trying it once I highly doubt that.

Psychological 'addiction' can apply to anything mind altering. I know a guy who gets high on tartrazine (food colouring). Everyone is different.

I guess if your life is lacking something significant, you can believe heroin will fill that hole!?

But I've used it in large amounts BUT only once every few years because I think 'this cost me £50? Is it worth it?' so I enjoy it and then don't touch is for a year or two.
 
Psychological 'addiction' can apply to anything mind altering. I know a guy who gets high on tartrazine (food colouring). Everyone is different.

I guess if your life is lacking something significant, you can believe heroin will fill that hole!?

But I've used it in large amounts BUT only once every few years because I think 'this cost me £50? Is it worth it?' so I enjoy it and then don't touch is for a year or two.
Ok yeah then that's a very sensible way of using it. No risk of developing a dependence, for one.
 
Yeah - the guy HAS to have his Sunny D every morning - he's a scaffolder and someone wasted on ANYTHING isn't the 'best fit' for the job of scaffolder.

But he IS addicted to tartrazine. God knows what would happen if he ever obtained an opioid - explode, most likely.

BTW you will only know if you are someone who can use H every few years or if the first hit will be so good, you will crave a second and so on. I seem to remember that 95% of people who try heroin don't go on to be addicts. But 20/1 is still, well it's an AVOIDABLE risk I would say.
 
BTW you will only know if you are someone who can use H every few years or if the first hit will be so good, you will crave a second and so on. I seem to remember that 95% of people who try heroin don't go on to be addicts. But 20/1 is still, well it's an AVOIDABLE risk I would say.
Most people who try ANY drug don't go on to be addicts, even those who become quite regular users. I think that tends to be (deliberately) forgotten in the whole drug panic by those who push for total prohibition. With particular regard to opiates, many people predominantly experience the unpleasant effects or simply just don't get all that much out of them. Even for a lot of junkies I know, their first few hits weren't THAT great but they got a taste for it bit by bit. Someone like me, who tries it once and has such a topnotch experience on it that he immediately goes 'I gotta have more of this shit at any price' would seem to be rather the exception, although it's the commonly propagated myth.
 
The time between first use and addiction can be years or even decades. It's mental state, availability, financial means and so on. I've worked at a needle exchange and MOST of the clients had tried H but only got into real trouble with it years later.

The figure of 5% is based on good evidence and having seen what it does to people, I'm not going to take that risk.
 
Also plenty people try it once or twice, decide it's not for them, and never feel inclined to touch the stuff again. That's how it went with me and meth.
 
I think the vast majority of people decide it's not for them, but consider that 5% of people that try it DO go on to be addicts and the morbidity amongst addicts is 1% per annum (in the UK at least - I sense lack of support and the amount of fentanyl around means US morbidity is higher). Average length of addiction is 19 years.... so do the maths. 1 in 20 you get hooked and 1 in 5 that IF hooked, it will kill you.

After all, isn't it the largest cause of death in people under 50 in the US?

So, it appeals to people at their lowest points, to those with depression (indeed many health problems) as well as reactive depression due to physical illness, loss, angst and what have you.

But I would argue that a decision with a 5% chance of destroying your life for decades if not directly killing you is an important one.

Oh, and the US prescribes x10 the amount of opioids (per capita) than any European nation.
 
Oh, and the US prescribes x10 the amount of opioids (per capita) than any European nation.
The point being what? The country's addiction problems are all the fault of the evil doctors who keep prescribing opioid pain medications thus somehow 'creating' addicts -?

The vast majority of people who are given these meds for legitimate treatment reasons use them exactly as prescribed. Of the fraction of abusers it's an even smaller fraction that proceed to use H. "Less than 4% of prescription opioid misusers go on to become heroin addicts." (Muhuri, 2013 ; National Survey on Drug Use). There were only around 600,000 heroin addicts in the same year that over 95.5 million Americans used prescription opioids without incident and to their benefit.
 
Well - EXACTLY. I have a friend who provides legal defence to doctors for 'overprescribing' opioids. I've been able to show that US medical literature advocates their (over) use. But then the Federal Inspectors came and cut people off from their 40mg oxycodone BID to nothing overnight. So her defence is that a doctor has to look after their patients. She tends to win, but only because someone lays out how the trap is set. Why do you think the owners of OxyContin filed for bankruptcy when their was a $4.6 billion case against them? They got caught.

It's NOT 'abusers' as you so disparagingly term them but people who MAYBE shouldn't have been given strong opioids so quickly, but who were suddenly left after years of increasing doses and who took their medication as instructed (which will breed physical dependence in every one of them) who went on to be 'addicts' which, from the BNF definition is 'the compulsive need and anxiety for continued opioids' so if someone TRUSTED their doctor for years and was simply discarded, not REALLY a surprise.

The term 'opioid' covers codeine - which is the VAST majority of prescriptions so *whoa*, no surprise that they didn't end up failing but look a bit closer at the actual opioids involved.... and of ALL opioids, oxycodone is (was) the most overprescribed.

But the evidence is quite compelling. HUGE overprescribing and then a lot of people just thrown off scripts. OK some doctors were 'smart' - they switched people to oxymorphone (Opana) or even levorphanol (Levo_dromoran) and those things are actually worse.

But why else did over 100,000 people die last year? What is your alternative hypothesis? I see your keen to knock others views, but see no evidence of any alternative explanation? Oh, and BTW Gainsaying isn't argument - it's automatically taking a contrary position.

So let's begin - the US prescribes x10 more opioids per capita than any other developed nation.
 
But then the Federal Inspectors came and cut people off from their 40mg oxycodone BID to nothing overnight.
Thus leaving legitimate pain patients without their medicine and looking on the black market for replacements. All through sheer over - reaction. I'm not contesting the fact there are over - prescribing doctors, but it's unwarranted to tar the whole profession with the same brush. Many physicians are paranoid about prescribing any opioids to anyone now, no matter how clearly medically indicated, for fear of legal repercussions.
Why do you think the owners of OxyContin filed for bankruptcy when their was a $4.6 billion case against them? They got caught.
Ever heard of striking a plea deal -?

Plenty court cases are settled that way because it's just less hassle and expense. Also what 'crime' exactly are they supposedly guilty of? Merely manufacturing the drug? The world has had oxycodone, the active ingredient in OxyContin, since 1917 ffs !
But by some nefarious collaboration between the pharmaceutical companies and the medical profession, we're now all of a sudden gonna get everyone hooked on the stuff over just the past 30 years or so?

Also maybe look into this insane culture where US television advertises pharmaceutical drugs directly to consumers, leading patients to pester their doctors for XYZ medication 'cause "I seen it on the telly". This practice is ILLEGAL in every other country I know. In Germany where I'm from, the only legal way to place adverts for opiate-based pharmaceuticals (or any other ones for that matter) is in magazines aimed at medical professionals, which are subscription only and not on sale to the general public.
It's NOT 'abusers' as you so disparagingly term them
How is calling someone a drug abuser disparaging. It's stating a fact where it applies. I was a fucking drug abuser. (As in, my use negatively impacted my own life and that of others.) I make the distinction between use and abuse precisely because I also advocate for legalization, and the unthinking equation of ANY use of ANY currently illegal substance being 'abuse' by default greatly hinders that argument. And no, I would not call a pain patient who is forced to resort to illicit sources for their pain relief an abuser.
who took their medication as instructed (which will breed physical dependence in every one of them) who went on to be 'addicts' and was simply discarded
Look at the study of A. Lindesmith all the way back in the 50s, who observed that in order to take on the 'addict' persona and come to understand themselves as addicts, an individual had to consciously link their withdrawal symptoms to the absence of the drug. Your average post - surgery patient throughout recent history, given large intravenous doses of morphine over a protracted period of time, then abruptly taken off and discharged when the medication was no longer needed, merely thought he'd caught some sickness when he withdrew from the morphine. He didn't feel compelled to run out to acquire more of the drug because he never made that mental connection. These days by contrast, we're practically TEACHING people 'addiction' .
The term 'opioid' covers codeine - which is the VAST majority of prescriptions so *whoa*, no surprise that they didn't end up failing but look a bit closer at the actual opioids involved.... and of ALL opioids, oxycodone is (was) the most overprescribed.
Refer you back to what I said above.

But why else did over 100,000 people die last year? What is your alternative hypothesis?
The vast majority of 'opioid' overdoses are not due to consumption of an opioid alone. According to the HAMS harm reduction survey, over 90% of fatal overdoses involved mixing an opioid with another sedative, such as alcohol or benzos. But if the toxicology report finds a single trace of an opioid, the death will invariably be chalked up to that.
I have no need for a 'hypothesis' in this matter. There's documented studies that anyone may consult.
I see your keen to knock others views, but see no evidence of any alternative explanation?
Excuse me? Yes I will argue the point if I disagree on the subject in question. But I don't just pull my arguments out of my arse at random, as you seem to be implying. I base my position on creditable statistics (I'm a researcher) and to a lesser degree on personal experience.
Oh, and BTW Gainsaying isn't argument - it's automatically taking a contrary position.
Again , that's not what I'm doing. I am not contradicting you for the mere purpose of contradicting you. Fine, let's slap you round the face with a couple more of those statistics:

80% of those who abuse (ie non-medical use) prescription opiates ARE NOT given them by any doctor, but acquire them from friends, steal them from family members, or buy them on the street.
70% of those who abuse prescription opiates were found to have a history of previous cocaine or meth use, that's to say were already far beyond any harmless experimentation with alcohol or cannabis when they got into opiates.

The 2012 Cochrane analysis puts the addiction rate of pain patients on opiates at 1-2%.
The 2018 Harvard survey found 'opiate naive' patients after 8 years of opiate treatment for chronic conditions to have only a 0.6% rate of misuse.

For the record, I'm the son of a doctor and I am sick and tired of the lazy way in which doctors, who for the most part are trying to help people to the best of their ability, are being made into collective scapegoats in this issue.

To sum up, OVER THREE QUARTERS of prescription opiate abusers receive their supply from sources OTHER than doctors.

Let's also not forget the way an addict will lie, cheat and connive to ensure his next fix. I've forged doctor's signatures, stolen prescription pads, had 50 different sob stories at the ready for every pharmacy and every emergency department within a 30 mile radius to convince them I absolutely HAD to have potent opiates and nothing else would do. If anything I made a single-handed net contribution to doctors UNDERprescribing opiates. And now we're to blame the doctors for that kind of behaviour -? The doc is at fault because I successfully conned him??

Whatever happened to personal agency and responsibility?! I did some lowlife desperate shit at the height of my addiction, fuck knows, but I'm pretty damn sure NOBODY ever tied me down and injected me with a fuckload of gear AGAINST MY OWN DAMN WILL.

.. Ah, but I have to remember the reason I'm a heroin junkie is because I once got given some codeine cough drops.
 
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Damn it's been awhile since I used these boards for my acid trips. did google start filtering the forums? i feel liek they were all over search engines back in the day! but i'm glad youre still here and appreciate what you provide to the public.

OK, i didn't wanna make a fresh topic for this and seeing as it's in the same substance category and a 'should i take this' I thought i'd chuck it here. please remove it if it's not allowed. i've been taking codeine recreationally once or twice a week for the last couple years; no issues with addictions forming etc, i was given a couple oxycodone's (20mg) and wanted to know the jump of these from codeine; i've always been careful with opiates, my usual recreational codeine dose to get blitz would be around 200mg a few years ago maybe once every couple months but now it's only 60mg once a week this gives me what I need as i'm getting older. being careful i thought i'd ask is oxycodone something to be cautious with? never had surgery or a major trauma that warranted morphine + and always steered away from anything stronger than codeine/tramadol. i do remember taking an oxycontin 10 years ago but it was a bunk pill.

i guess the thing that worries me i'll waking up and taking another would be on my mind. i was thinking of splitting the 20mg into 4, so a 5mg dose. i was told the pills are extended release, can you split those?

honestly, from reading above and being reassured hearing stories about people trying heroin and addiction most likely always comes later it seems i'm overthinking it, better to be safe though. love to you all
 
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Damn it's been awhile since I used these boards for my acid trips. did google start filtering the forums? i feel liek they were all over search engines back in the day! but i'm glad youre still here and appreciate what you provide to the public.

OK, i didn't wanna make a fresh topic for this and seeing as it's in the same substance category and a 'should i take this' I thought i'd chuck it here. please remove it if it's not allowed. i've been taking codeine recreationally once or twice a week for the last couple years; no issues with addictions forming etc, i was given a couple oxycodone's (20mg) and wanted to know the jump of these from codeine; i've always been careful with opiates, my usual recreational codeine dose to get blitz would be around 200mg a few years ago maybe once every couple months but now it's only 60mg once a week this gives me what I need as i'm getting older. being careful i thought i'd ask is oxycodone something to be cautious with? never had surgery or a major trauma that warranted morphine + and always steered away from anything stronger than codeine/tramadol. i do remember taking an oxycontin 10 years ago but it was a bunk pill.

i guess the thing that worries me i'll waking up and taking another would be on my mind. i was thinking of splitting the 20mg into 4, so a 5mg dose. i was told the pills are extended release, can you split those?

honestly, from reading above and being reassured hearing stories about people trying heroin and addiction most likely always comes later it seems i'm overthinking it, better to be safe though. love to you all
Just be careful if you got the oxycodone off the street, as a lot of the pills being sold as oxys these days are just pressed fentanyl
 
A good friend of mine was addicted to heroin for 10+ years. She made me promise never to try it. Said it was like a big warm hug that made all your problems go away but it's all lies. She overdosed a couple times, was pronounced dead once and came back with no brain damage. I've been offered it but I will stick to my promise, just no thank you.
 
The time between first use and addiction can be years or even decades. It's mental state, availability, financial means and so on. I've worked at a needle exchange and MOST of the clients had tried H but only got into real trouble with it years later.

The figure of 5% is based on good evidence and having seen what it does to people, I'm not going to take that risk.
Yeah it was straight up 10 years for me, from the first time I tried opioids to the point I became addicted to fentanyl. Didn't even like them at first. Made me nauseous and itchy. But I did them socially and after years and years started to developed a taste until it became every day and I couldn't stop. And I still take suboxone every day :/ definitely not something to take lightly.
 
I need advice...some weeks ago I had coke binge (never do coke but a friend invited me) and I ended up going back home super stimulated , couldn't sleep, and I went onto a very disgraceful porn binge.

I never do those porn binges anymore (only happens to me when I do stims, one of the reason I NEVER do them again anymore), but doing them again made me so sad and depressed. I was so pissed, (+ maniac/delusion because of sleep deprivation) that I got so angry I decided to order .5gr of heroin off the darknet. I said to myself I even prefer to do end up doing heroin that to do this ever again.

Of course once I got a full days sleep a sobered up I realize how fucking stupid idea I got. But unfortunately the package was already on its way.

So today arrived the package. Initially I said to myself I was going to throw it up once it arrived but then I thought why not saving at home "just in case".

Bad idea, I had just this pure feeling of curiosity that what if i just do a little bump. I'm not going to get high. Honestly I'm using opioids for socialization purposes this year and they are helping. I can manage them. But heroin I know is another ballpark. I probably shouldn't take the chance.

But then I thought I mean it's just a powder, don't they say Oxycodone is heroin in pill form? The only difference is that heroin is cheaper and be smoked so faster roa , more euphoria.

But anyways with that rationalizations I end up putting one super small line (because I was terrifying of OD). I sniffed it and didn't noticed much. I went out to have a walk and I'm not sure if I was under the influence or not. Probably was placebo. Or not. I felt somewhat tingly/weird, but definitely not sedated/stoned/high. I probably did the smallest active dose of heroin lol.

So now I'm having an intuition I should really flush the stuff and never look back. Or am I overreacting? Something tells me I'm playing with fire but at the other hand why not I could discover a great tool for improving my life as with other opioids?

What should I do? Should I flush it? Makes me sad to waste it...what if it's a drug my life can improve with? I've read lately a lot of users that are functional on it. It's not all bad things.
 
I need advice...some weeks ago I had coke binge (never do coke but a friend invited me) and I ended up going back home super stimulated , couldn't sleep, and I went onto a very disgraceful porn binge.

I never do those porn binges anymore (only happens to me when I do stims, one of the reason I NEVER do them again anymore), but doing them again made me so sad and depressed. I was so pissed, (+ maniac/delusion because of sleep deprivation) that I got so angry I decided to order .5gr of heroin off the darknet. I said to myself I even prefer to do end up doing heroin that to do this ever again.

Of course once I got a full days sleep a sobered up I realize how fucking stupid idea I got. But unfortunately the package was already on its way.

So today arrived the package. Initially I said to myself I was going to throw it up once it arrived but then I thought why not saving at home "just in case".

Bad idea, I had just this pure feeling of curiosity that what if i just do a little bump. I'm not going to get high. Honestly I'm using opioids for socialization purposes this year and they are helping. I can manage them. But heroin I know is another ballpark. I probably shouldn't take the chance.

But then I thought I mean it's just a powder, don't they say Oxycodone is heroin in pill form? The only difference is that heroin is cheaper and be smoked so faster roa , more euphoria.

But anyways with that rationalizations I end up putting one super small line (because I was terrifying of OD). I sniffed it and didn't noticed much. I went out to have a walk and I'm not sure if I was under the influence or not. Probably was placebo. Or not. I felt somewhat tingly/weird, but definitely not sedated/stoned/high. I probably did the smallest active dose of heroin lol.

So now I'm having an intuition I should really flush the stuff and never look back. Or am I overreacting? Something tells me I'm playing with fire but at the other hand why not I could discover a great tool for improving my life as with other opioids?

What should I do? Should I flush it? Makes me sad to waste it...what if it's a drug my life can improve with? I've read lately a lot of users that are functional on it. It's not all bad things.
Hey man, there's always going to be that little voice in your head saying "what if". What if it helps me? What if I can handle it this time?

But if you're someone that's had an issue with opioids or drugs in the past... generally speaking there's a good chance you'll abuse it or spiral out again. And these days, heroin is so shady and potentially laced with fentanyl, even in dnm's that insist it's not, that it's a very physical danger of OD.

If I was in your circumstances I would be saying the same things to myself. But I'm not, so it's much easier for me to say just toss it. Shit I mean, if you have a friend (not some dipshit who'll accidentally hurt themselves and link back to you) to give or sell it to, so your money and the product isn't totally wasted, do that. But I would urge you to get rid of it. There are much safer opioids to use recreationally.

And if you are going to keep it, I would urge you to fentanyl test it. Stay doing those tiny doses. Don't inject it. Don't smoke it. Stay alive please.

And if you need support on the other front about the porn and stims, there are no judgement support groups out there. I for one have struggled with a lot of the same things and will say my dm's are always open if you need someone to chat with or support you when you're feeling like binging on that.
 
heroin ? it's just a mix of garbage. no heroin. It's just a mixture of adjunct with fent's. It will kill you fast and everyone will know.
 
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