F.U.B.A.R.
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I have friend that have whole sleeves, on both arms to cover the damage
That's not to cover the damage, it's just because he's so addicted to needles...
Opioids Inability to feel pleasure from opiates anymore. What might have caused this?
- Thread starter Fornax55
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That's not to cover the damage, it's just because he's so addicted to needles...
Iceman1216
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I have no personal knowledge of this, But some people have had success with
Al ot of $$ yes, but I have a few very wealthy addict friends who make the trip, and go through the whole thing to just get back to a baseline of more enjoyment from Opiates??
all matters what you are looking for?
These guys and one girl, can afford to not see the destruction their use is causing them and many around them!
But all i hear is:
[I DID NOT WORK THIS HARD TO STOP HAVING FUN NOW :-(
Ibogaine
Al ot of $$ yes, but I have a few very wealthy addict friends who make the trip, and go through the whole thing to just get back to a baseline of more enjoyment from Opiates??
all matters what you are looking for?
These guys and one girl, can afford to not see the destruction their use is causing them and many around them!
But all i hear is:
[I DID NOT WORK THIS HARD TO STOP HAVING FUN NOW :-(
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My experience with opiates (over many, many years and various periods of heavy addiction) is that tolerance you gain becomes permanent. Of course you can drop it to some extent, but I was clean after 10 years of heavy addiction and when I relapsed, I expected to get highs like I used to, and I didn't. It took me way more opiates to get high than I expected, not as much as during my peak but a whole lot more than it was in my early years of using. Furthermore, the quality of the high was not as good, I got high, but it was just not as euphoric. My experience has been that once the honeymoon stage is over, it's over forever and you can never get it back.
F.U.B.A.R.
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Same with everything in life. The novelty always wears off and stuff becomes shit again.
100 percent the euphoria goes away and a tolerance break is a must
endlessnameless
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I've been experiencing something similar with Diazepam for a while now, and like you I know its not a tolerance issue as I've left 4 weeks between doses. Peculiar.
Fornax55
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Hey yeah this would be great, maybe a little bit of bumsex too but I can hold off on that. I'm still set on demystifying this although I have an intuitive hunch that my extreme and relentless desire (and failure) to get sober over the last 6 months might have just created a psychosomatic reaction that caused my body to just fully reject opiates. I don't have much of a scientific explanation for that but it's the only thing I can think of that would cause me to suddenly become completely immune to an entire class of drugs.
Either way I'm getting 2 weeks, starting at the end of October, to house-sit for my mom in a town where I've got no connections. Hopefully that opportunity, plus this weird opiate immunity, will be enough to help me kick the stuff and start rebuilding my social life without it..
Fornax55
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Sigh. I think I'm just going to stop responding to people in this thread. People obviously aren't reading my posts, or if they are, they don't seem to be able to understand what I'm saying. "The euphoria goes away and you just get the sedation," yes, I am aware of how opiates, tolerance, sensitization, etc. work, and for the 40th time, this isn't what I'm experiencing. But obviously people don't want to acknowledge that and seem content to just project their own experiences all over mine. I've been using opiates maybe 2-3 times a week after being completely abstinent from 2018 until February 2021.
If you're interested in having an actual scientific conversation about sensitization and downregulation & how that could relate to what I'm experiencing, I'd be more than happy. But from what I'm reading in your reply it seems like you either don't have a rudimentary understanding of pharmacology/pharmacokinetics, or you haven't even read my post. Also if you think that even the most insanely ridiculous kratom habit would produce more than a negligible effect on someone's fentanyl tolerance then idk what to say, but certainly the 5 grams of kratom I dose every other friday isn't going to do much. Plus fentanyl's hardly even euphoric in the first place.
He or she is just trying to help like the rest of us we giving you our opinion that's what this place is
Las Veghost grower
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Tolerance, I can go from getting fucked up off .05. Of dope to doing a gram in one sitting and getting nothing but feeling right in less than a week…this seems pretty normal across the board which is why most people start mixing their dope with other drugs. Also, I wonder if this permatolerance is some fentynal phenomenon, cause if I stop for even a week I will get zoned off a tiny bit and I been a heavy user for almost 10 years, but it’s actual diamorphine
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TheFrogEffect
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OP, a person I know is completely immune to the effects of opiates. She has tried various prescriptions as well as heroin, and same as you, she doesn't feel any of the euphoria or any other effects. She doesn't even hit a nod or go to sleep after. So after probably a few hundred bucks blown on various different opiates, she's given up on them at all.
She is also very resistant to sedation. She had some procedure done recently and she woke up two or three different times during the fact and had to be given more anesthesia. I am unsure if these two things are related.
As far as I know, nobody has been able to tell her why any of this is. I asked if she had any answers to why and she just shrugged and said, "guess my body doesn't want me getting that fucked up." Probably for the best, of course. Perhaps you have developed some of that same sort of immunity? Seems unlikely but hey, stranger things have happened.
She is also very resistant to sedation. She had some procedure done recently and she woke up two or three different times during the fact and had to be given more anesthesia. I am unsure if these two things are related.
As far as I know, nobody has been able to tell her why any of this is. I asked if she had any answers to why and she just shrugged and said, "guess my body doesn't want me getting that fucked up." Probably for the best, of course. Perhaps you have developed some of that same sort of immunity? Seems unlikely but hey, stranger things have happened.
Man I’m experiencing the same thing.
mum dog just iV’d 4mg of dilaudid and snorted 8mg and had a Xanax straight after. Zero effects, not even any sedation. This is weird
Fornax55
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What the hell happened to this place? Is this the same Bluelight from the era of 2010 when I first joined? I haven't been away for that long, but this used to be a place where drug users came to discuss pharmacology, to share knowledge and answer questions, and to practice or discuss new avenues of harm reduction.
And yet in this thread I've literally got you mocking me for asking a serious question and a whole bunch of people throwing out opinions about this and that rather than an actual answer to the question I've asked. There are a couple people who have taken the question seriously and their replies are what I remember most about Bluelight - a community of people interested in helping one another learn and grow, to challenge each other to push the limits of knowledge and safety regarding drug use,,,
not someone making fun of a poster for being 'smart and a know it all who doesn't deserve opiae euphoria" because they're serious about trying to understand the underlying neurological cause of a drug-related issue. Harm reduction and education are the foundations of Bluelight, man. Making fun of someone for trying to learn something new or speaking technically sort of goes against that.
I know I was short in a few of my posts and I acknowledged that, but that's because I kept getting people's opinions rather than any honest speculation of informed answers and I needed to clarify what I was looking for.But even then I was short because (as far as I remember) this is a site that people come to for learning about harm reduction, and posting uninformed opinions could actually cause harm down the line, should someone else ever have this same issue and stumble upon this thread, see a post that says "ya it's just tolerance bro," and so they go out and take a megadose thinking to overcome the tolerance barrer and end up overdosing.
Unlikely, but similar things have certainly happened. I stated firmly that I was interested in evidence-backed answers or speculations that could lead to more research, not baseless opinions. Your post was just slanderous and insulting and I'm honestly disappointed to see such a response here on Bluelight because I've held this place in such high esteem for so many years. I hope this is the exception and not the rule, because Bluelight has always been a sanctuary of knowledge for me and thousands of others and I hope it's not been taken ver by people who prioritize insulting people over learning & sharing...
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The reply you're replying to was inappropriate and not the sort of thing we hope to have here, but you do have to expect a level of frustration from people when they have made an effort to give what they consider to be an answer to your question and you give them attitude in return. Sadly there a lot less people here these days able to discuss the intricacies of pharmacology. Actually this thread might do better in N&PD (what used to be called Advanced Drug Discussion). I can move it there if you'd like.
Fornax55
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Hey, yeah one of the other mods suggested that. Might be a good idea. Or not. I have confirmed that a lot of the dope around here is cut with straight up tranuqilizers and sleeping pills and a lot of the people selling it are kids from the newer generation who have never actually used heroin and assume that a shitmix of etizolam, barbiturates & U47700 or a bunch of fentalogues is "the best dope on the streets." But that still doesn't explain why low-potency opioids and krtom are putting me to sleep when my tolerance is so high that I can't feel their effects.
And normally I'd agree with ya except I also said in my original post that it wasn't a tolerance issue and explained pretty clearly how & why I knew that and asked politely that nobody respond with an answer that basically says "it's tolerance, my dude." So when I saw those responses, it felt like a triple slap in the face of not getting my post read, having my knowledge/experience doubted & having other people assert that their knowledge about my experience is more important for me to listen to, and having my one request (not to turn this into a discussion about - standard - tolerance).
Honestly it takes a lot to get me worked up, especially in an online forum. But I explain everything so clearly in the first post that when I had to spell it out again and then a third time I was just angry at the whole world because I felt like I came back to a Bluelight that doesn't exist anymore. Like yeah, I have an opiate tolerance. I know what tolerance is and does. The issue I'm having is something separate from tolerance, although possibly related, and it saddens me that people can't seem to wrap their head around that and think that I must either be an idiot or contriving to bypass some mechanism so that I can get high.
snortyjones
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read my thread on , new club thread
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I also long for the old days. I don't think you'll get the responses you're looking for in terms of potential neurochemical reasons for something like this in here though, but maybe you will in N&PD.
DeathIndustrial88
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Fentanyl isn't really a "blissful, warm, euphoric" opioid to begin with.
At least it wasn't for me.
The only thing fentanyl and heroin/various other opioids have in common is some histamine release (actually I barely got any histamine release from fent that I remember) and the nods, but I'd say fentanyl & heroin don't feel anything alike.
My first time doing fentanyl with a low tolerance was absolutely boring. And scary, because it was the only time I ever felt like I might nod out and never wake back up.
With that said, these higher potency opioids may be very powerful, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're more euphoric.
Buprenorphine for example is 40x stronger than morphine (seen this number change from 40-100). But we all know it's no where near as euphoric as dope. Although bupe is also only a partial agonist.
Maybe these different fent analogues going around just didn't agree with your body. I mean, OP does say that they at least put him to sleep, etc.. Maybe the dope you use to do had actual heroin (euphoric warm fuzzies) and now everything you're getting is all shitty fent-garbage. And maybe you're like me and don't find fentanyl pleasureable.
EDIT : Eh, nevermind. You said ANY opiate. It might not be tolerance. But it could be. I wouldn't say some one who has access to "any opiate" has a "low tolerance" either.
Fent is so potent (and shitty & non-euphoric) that it's going to cause hella receptor downregulation though (i.e. - tolerance). Just because you would have a tolerance though doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't feel all those other opiates/opioids. Not all opioids have total cross tolerance either. For instance different opioids hit different receptors (and their sub types), so while you may have a tolerance to a full Mu agonist, that doesn't mean you won't necessarily feel an opioid that hits both Kappa & Delta as well.
It would make sense that if you're doing a highly potent (non-euphoric by my standards) synthetic mu-receptor dominant opioid, that it's going to make any other less potent opioid feel boring & sedating (non-euphoric) unless you're putting significant time in between your fent use and the use of these other less potent opioids.
Fent may have a short duration of effects, but it hangs around a long time in the body as well. Dunno if this can cause tolerance to lag until the shit is out of your system fully or not. But it can cause a dependence. So say you do some fent and then 3 days later wanna do some hydro/kratom/whatever and all it does is make you sedated. Well that's because you just down regulated your receptors with a highly potent crappy opioid 3 days earlier.
Personal example : One time I went on a 5 day heroin (diacetylmorphine) binge and then got back on buprenorphine (avoid PWD that time thankfully) after it was all gone and the buprenorphine actually put me to sleep. Wasn't euphoric or anything but I was surprised that I had built up a heroin tolerance and bupe was still able to do anything at all.
"This is an entirely different phenomenon marked by the spontaneous and COMPLETE absence of ANY opioid-like effects from ANY opioids, not just me becoming sensitized to the positive benefits."
This isn't exactly true though cause you admit they make you fall asleep, so they're obviously causing sedation at least, which is what happens when you get use to them. So yes, after using something like fentanyl, I would expect nothing but sedation from lower potency opioids just a few days later, especially if that fent is still hanging around in your system. If you're gonna use fent, you might as well kiss all the lower potency opioids goodbye, cause they won't do anything.
Fent is predominantly a mu receptor agonist and Kratom has delta agonism properties as well, so yes, even using fent, you might still feel kratom. That doesn't mean what you feel will be enjoyable however. Delta receptor agonism can also cause sedation.
If you want euphoria back from the lower potency opioids, you should quit fentanyl altogether and give yourself much more than a few days before taking a different opioid.
"It's like my receptors are just completely flatlined and unresponsive to positive stimulation" - This is exactly what receptor downregulation is. And the higher potency opioids like fent are great at doing just this.
So you say it's not tolerance, but what you describe sounds exactly like that.
I find it difficult to believe that some one who has access to fent, hydromorphone, oxy, etc.. doesn't have any dependence in the slightest. If I'm wrong, then you sir are an anomaly.
At least it wasn't for me.
The only thing fentanyl and heroin/various other opioids have in common is some histamine release (actually I barely got any histamine release from fent that I remember) and the nods, but I'd say fentanyl & heroin don't feel anything alike.
My first time doing fentanyl with a low tolerance was absolutely boring. And scary, because it was the only time I ever felt like I might nod out and never wake back up.
With that said, these higher potency opioids may be very powerful, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're more euphoric.
Buprenorphine for example is 40x stronger than morphine (seen this number change from 40-100). But we all know it's no where near as euphoric as dope. Although bupe is also only a partial agonist.
Maybe these different fent analogues going around just didn't agree with your body. I mean, OP does say that they at least put him to sleep, etc.. Maybe the dope you use to do had actual heroin (euphoric warm fuzzies) and now everything you're getting is all shitty fent-garbage. And maybe you're like me and don't find fentanyl pleasureable.
EDIT : Eh, nevermind. You said ANY opiate. It might not be tolerance. But it could be. I wouldn't say some one who has access to "any opiate" has a "low tolerance" either.
Fent is so potent (and shitty & non-euphoric) that it's going to cause hella receptor downregulation though (i.e. - tolerance). Just because you would have a tolerance though doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't feel all those other opiates/opioids. Not all opioids have total cross tolerance either. For instance different opioids hit different receptors (and their sub types), so while you may have a tolerance to a full Mu agonist, that doesn't mean you won't necessarily feel an opioid that hits both Kappa & Delta as well.
It would make sense that if you're doing a highly potent (non-euphoric by my standards) synthetic mu-receptor dominant opioid, that it's going to make any other less potent opioid feel boring & sedating (non-euphoric) unless you're putting significant time in between your fent use and the use of these other less potent opioids.
Fent may have a short duration of effects, but it hangs around a long time in the body as well. Dunno if this can cause tolerance to lag until the shit is out of your system fully or not. But it can cause a dependence. So say you do some fent and then 3 days later wanna do some hydro/kratom/whatever and all it does is make you sedated. Well that's because you just down regulated your receptors with a highly potent crappy opioid 3 days earlier.
Personal example : One time I went on a 5 day heroin (diacetylmorphine) binge and then got back on buprenorphine (avoid PWD that time thankfully) after it was all gone and the buprenorphine actually put me to sleep. Wasn't euphoric or anything but I was surprised that I had built up a heroin tolerance and bupe was still able to do anything at all.
"This is an entirely different phenomenon marked by the spontaneous and COMPLETE absence of ANY opioid-like effects from ANY opioids, not just me becoming sensitized to the positive benefits."
This isn't exactly true though cause you admit they make you fall asleep, so they're obviously causing sedation at least, which is what happens when you get use to them. So yes, after using something like fentanyl, I would expect nothing but sedation from lower potency opioids just a few days later, especially if that fent is still hanging around in your system. If you're gonna use fent, you might as well kiss all the lower potency opioids goodbye, cause they won't do anything.
Fent is predominantly a mu receptor agonist and Kratom has delta agonism properties as well, so yes, even using fent, you might still feel kratom. That doesn't mean what you feel will be enjoyable however. Delta receptor agonism can also cause sedation.
If you want euphoria back from the lower potency opioids, you should quit fentanyl altogether and give yourself much more than a few days before taking a different opioid.
"It's like my receptors are just completely flatlined and unresponsive to positive stimulation" - This is exactly what receptor downregulation is. And the higher potency opioids like fent are great at doing just this.
So you say it's not tolerance, but what you describe sounds exactly like that.
I find it difficult to believe that some one who has access to fent, hydromorphone, oxy, etc.. doesn't have any dependence in the slightest. If I'm wrong, then you sir are an anomaly.
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