Opioids Inability to feel pleasure from opiates anymore. What might have caused this?

[Fornax55]

Note to mods - made a similar thread about this but it was more specifically about naltrexone, I was going to delete it but it looks like people are having some discussion there. I do understand if you wanna delete one of these threads though because they're similar, if so could you delete the other one? I feel like this is more important for the question I'm trying to figure out.

So first I should state that what I'm discussing is NOT a tolerance issue. I've been a drug user for about thirteen years now and I know what tolerance feels like. I also barely have a tolerance right now.

In the last couple of months I've completely lost any ability to feel the pleasurable effects from ANY opioids. When I mean pleasurable effects I refer to the warm, fuzzy, blissful feelings that arise shortly after your dose. I don't get any of that anymore. My habit is comparatively tiny so it wouldn't be a result of this, and aside from that, even when I've been completely junked out, it's always possible to do enough dope to feel good. I can't feel the dope, any kind of dope, at ALL, anymore.

I lost my taste thanks to COVID the other day. Usually the taste of a good hit is one of my favourite things. Today, I took a fairly large blast of dope (yes, good quality, dangerously good quality, standard PNW 150-overdoses-a-month fentalogue BS) and just sat still to observe the effects. There was absolutely nothing pleasurable. About ten minutes in I nodded the fuck out, or rather, fell asleep, because there was nothing pleasurable/blissful/dreamy/enjoyable about it.

I imagine I'm experiencing what one would experience if they tried to use dope after being loaded with buprenorphine or naltrexone. However, I'm not taking either of these. I did briefly use ultra low-dose naltrexone a while back but certainly not enough to do anything like this.

Furthermore, my opiate tolerance is relatively low, at least compared to the rest of my street urchin compadres. A $10 half point of the fentadope will last me about 24 hours (I'll take a puff, nod out, wake up a few hours later, repeat) and an 8mg dilaudid is enough to knock me out. My tolerance is still low enough to feel the effects of morphine, hydropmorph, oxy, and even large doses of kratom.

An 8mg dilaudid, 100mg MS contin, 20mg oxy, 15g dose of red bali kratom, or a blast of fent all do the EXACT same thing - nothing. Until 10-60 minutes following consumption depending on my ROA, at which point I'll fall asleep without any pleasant nodding out goodness.

any idea what the hell is going on? This is really weird. It's like my receptors are just completely flatlined and unresponsive to positive stimulation... except that the opioids still end up putting me to sleep. Although on the other hand it's sort of a blessing in disguise because I can't really justify continuing to use if I'm not getting any benefit from it...

edit: please don't comment saying something like, "opiates lose their magic after the years," or something similar. I understand that, and I've certainly experienced it and agree with it. however even after opiates have lost the magic, you can still feel them. I just checked, and my pupils aren't even pinned right now despite being on a dose of fentanyl large enough to necessitate amphetamine consumption just to stay awake. Something is physiologically blocking the opiates. This is an entirely different phenomenon marked by the spontaneous and COMPLETE absence of ANY opioid-like effects from ANY opioids, not just me becoming sensitized to the positive benefits.

 

[Juniper Bruhmomentius]

You dun fried your brain

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

where ya gettin the opioids? not asking ya to give up your source just thinking it may not be waht it appears to be like most everything these days.

 

[Fornax55]

ffs guys. i apologize ahead of time because this response is going to sound curt as fuck but I wouldn't be making a thread on bloody bluelight if this was something as obvious as tolerance buildup.

where ya gettin the opioids? not asking ya to give up your source just thinking it may not be waht it appears to be like most everything these days.

I've observed this phenomenon with a variety of opioids, pills from the pharmacy, powder from the street, dark web, you name it. and even if I was getting shitty pressed pills, pressed pills are like a dozen times stronger than legit pharmaceuticals so that'd nullify any tolerance argument. so it doesn't really matter because whether or not something is "what it seems," whatever it is happens to be strong enough that it's dropping several dozen people every month and yet I can't feel it at all despite having only the smallest tolerance at the moment (i.e. 4mg dilaudid insufflated was enough for me to catch a nice buzz around the time this started happening)

if you still get side effect without good effect, its tolerance believe it or not
some medication do the opposite tolerance develop to bad effect and good effect stay, but its not the case with opiates and weed

this is exactly what I asked people not to post. it's not tolerance. i don't know if you're suggesting that I don't know what tolerance is, or if I'm unfamiliar with its mechanisms, or that I'm uneducated regarding the pharmacokinetics of different substances, or what, but the reason i asked people not to say exactly what you said is because it would save me having to check this thread just to reply to people who just ignored what i said in the first place.

the fact that it's not tolerance is self-evident from what i posted, anyways. I'm using bloody fentanyl. if i had such a massive tolerance to fentanyl that it diminished all the positive effects, then i certainly wouldn't be feeling the effects of hydromorphone, or morphine, let alone kratom.

your argument isn't built on any solid foundation anyways. firstly, i didn't say I'm not getting side effects - i said i can't feel opiates at all, aside from them putting me to sleep. second, "getting side effects without good effects" is not a good enough justification to explain why this is happening; never in thirteen years of polysubstance use have i ever encountered a situation in which drug tolerance led to a diminishing of all positive effects while allowing for negative side effects to persist. if that was the case nobody would keep using drugs beyond such a point, you're basically suggesting that I'm in a situation where dosing while in withdrawal would make me feel worse, since a dose would only provide side effects and no positives.

thirdly, nodding out is one of the first side effects to disappear alongside the development of tolerance, so you're basically telling me that by some freak accident, my tolerance level skyrocketed in such a sense that literally every other effect disappeared except for the one that usually disappears first, and left me tolerant in such an ass-backwards way that I'm equally sensitive to both kratom and hydromorphone despite having an alleged tolerance strong enough to block the effects of fentanyl.

oh and did i mention that i don't have a goddamn tolerance to opiates at the moment? saying that once should be enough for someone to believe me, i would hope, and it frustrates me that I'm having to explain myself. why you're trying to convince somebody online that they have a tolerance to a drug they know they're not tolerant to is beyond me. i don't think you understand the mechanism of tolerance, friend. tolerance develops overtime and leads to diminishing returns. that is not at all what I've described and does not explain the complete absence of opioidergic activity despite the use of various full agonists (aside from the sleeping phenomenon which i'm not entirely sure is opioidergic considering a dose of red bali kratom puts me to sleep the same way that a few blasts of fentanyl or a dilly 4mg does.) unless you're suggesting that i somehow built up a fucking massive tolerance, strong enough to completely nullify the effects of fentanyl, without noticing it happen and due to infrequent dosages spaced apart by multiple days, i'm not really sure what you're saying.

again, sorry to sound snippy but i asked people not to say something stupid like "it's just tolerance bro," because i already said that it's not, and now i just had to type up this massive paragraph to reiterate something i already explained.

edit: your receptors function database is badass as fuck, bookmarked that shit. I'm gonna refer to this forever

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

happens to be strong enough that it's dropping several dozen people every month

Dropping how... dead?
Whats the question? Why havent you reached this goal?

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Seems to me you want US to figure out why YOU can't get high anymore.

How would we know? We don't know your genetic make up, your biological functions nor your brain waves any more than you probably do.

If we have to tip toe and try to figure out how you can get high again without saying certain phrases it's a bit difficult.

Methinks you would be better off getting a full blood work up and then while the Dr. is consulting with you about your results MAYBE he can give you some insight.

 

[Fornax55]

Dropping how... dead?
Whats the question? Why havent you reached this goal?

Yeah, overdosing. I live just off the coast of Vancouver. Not sure how bad the opioid crisis is elsewhere but I think Vancouver has one of the highest rates of OD per capita in the world right now due to the ridiculous potency of the dope and the decline in stigmatization, resulting in dope basically being decriminalized & people selling it all over the place.

Huh? The question is... is there any sort of mechanism, aside from occupying receptor sites with a high-affinity antagonist or partial agonist like naltrexone/buprenorphine, could lead to the complete cessation of opioid-like effects? Several months ago I suddenly lost the ability to feel anything from any kind of opiates despite not having much of a habit and I'm wracking my brain trying to understand what sort of mechanism might be behind this.

Seems to me you want US to figure out why YOU can't get high anymore.

How would we know? We don't know your genetic make up, your biological functions nor your brain waves any more than you probably do.

If we have to tip toe and try to figure out how you can get high again without saying certain phrases it's a bit difficult.

Methinks you would be better off getting a full blood work up and then while the Dr. is consulting with you about your results MAYBE he can give you some insight.

Not really, no - I'm not interested in an answer specific to me, I'm just asking if there are any other known biological or neurological explanations for the sudden cessation of opioid response. I've already ruled out receptor site occupation with partial agonists/antagonists so I'm basically wondering if there are any other things that I might have overlooked that could lead to the spontaneous inability to feel opioids.

I'm not particularly interested in getting high one way or the other. I don't use that much in the first place and this is only helping to ensure that I don't end up using more than I already do. I'm actually grateful for this experience: it feels like what I'd hoped to achieve when I started using naltrexone in the first place - being unable to catch a buzz even if I ended up using dope - but that I'd never been able to accomplish. But I'm super curious about what's going on.

Blood work's an option, but I honestly doubt that my doctor would have much to say if nobody on Bluelight could think of any biological reason for something like this to happen. More likely that'd result in me getting flagged as a drug seeker without actually learning anything.

And I don't think anyone's gotta be tiptoeing about anything, just thought it was a bit frustrating that I followed a notification back here just to find that someone had responded with exactly what I'd asked people not to respond with. Felt a bit like a slap in the face.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

It's just too much of a good thing mate. It happens, unfortunately, so now is the time to stop.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Yeah, overdosing. I live just off the coast of Vancouver. Not sure how bad the opioid crisis is elsewhere but I think Vancouver has one of the highest rates of OD per capita in the world right now due to the ridiculous potency of the dope and the decline in stigmatization, resulting in dope basically being decriminalized & people selling it all over the place.

Huh? The question is... is there any sort of mechanism, aside from occupying receptor sites with a high-affinity antagonist or partial agonist like naltrexone/buprenorphine, could lead to the complete cessation of opioid-like effects? Several months ago I suddenly lost the ability to feel anything from any kind of opiates despite not having much of a habit and I'm wracking my brain trying to understand what sort of mechanism might be behind this.

Not really, no - I'm not interested in an answer specific to me, I'm just asking if there are any other known biological or neurological explanations for the sudden cessation of opioid response. I've already ruled out receptor site occupation with partial agonists/antagonists so I'm basically wondering if there are any other things that I might have overlooked that could lead to the spontaneous inability to feel opioids.

I'm not particularly interested in getting high one way or the other. I don't use that much in the first place and this is only helping to ensure that I don't end up using more than I already do. I'm actually grateful for this experience: it feels like what I'd hoped to achieve when I started using naltrexone in the first place - being unable to catch a buzz even if I ended up using dope - but that I'd never been able to accomplish. But I'm super curious about what's going on.

Blood work's an option, but I honestly doubt that my doctor would have much to say if nobody on Bluelight could think of any biological reason for something like this to happen. More likely that'd result in me getting flagged as a drug seeker without actually learning anything.

And I don't think anyone's gotta be tiptoeing about anything, just thought it was a bit frustrating that I followed a notification back here just to find that someone had responded with exactly what I'd asked people not to respond with. Felt a bit like a slap in the face.

Fair enough. I'm sure there is a biological reason for it but a layman isn't going to know. Maybe the people in the Chemistry, Neuroscience, and other more educated forums on here would be able to offer more insights as to why your brains MU receptors are not responding anymore. I would imagine you would like to get high ( at least a little bit ) otherwise you wouldn't care why you can't. Some people might call it a blessing and quit for good. Others will just try and figure out whats wrong and breakthrough the barriers ( whatever they may be ).

Either way I hope you figure it out. People that want to get high should be able to and vice versa.

You don't have to tell your Dr. it's you. Next time you see him tell him it's your sister that can't feel her opies anymore and you know for sure that it isn't tolerance. Who knows ?

 

[Fornax55]

It's just too much of a good thing mate. It happens, unfortunately, so now is the time to stop.

Dude, I use opiates like twice a week, inconsistently. I think I mentioned that above. There's always at least 72 hours in between usage. Maybe, maybe this dosing frequency could lead to SOME slight tolerance buildup over a period of years, but you can't seriously be suggesting that this is the reason opioids suddenly just stopped working on me?

I feel like I must be wording something badly or something, because what I'm experiencing is not normal at all but I seem to be explaining it all wrong.

 

[Fornax55]

Fair enough. I'm sure there is a biological reason for it but a layman isn't going to know. Maybe the people in the Chemistry, Neuroscience, and other more educated forums on here would be able to offer more insights as to why your brains MU receptors are not responding anymore. I would imagine you would like to get high ( at least a little bit ) otherwise you wouldn't care why you can't. Some people might call it a blessing and quit for good. Others will just try and figure out whats wrong and breakthrough the barriers ( whatever they may be ).

Either way I hope you figure it out. People that want to get high should be able to and vice versa.

You don't have to tell your Dr. it's you. Next time you see him tell him it's your sister that can't feel her opies anymore and you know for sure that it isn't tolerance. Who knows ?

AhhhHHh well that's the answer I think I've been looking for. I never figured out where to post questions like these since the Advanced Drug Discussion forum got nixed however many years ago and I haven't been much of a regular since then. Thanks!

As for getting high, I mean, sure. But I actually considered not posting this thread at all because I was concerned what I might do with the knowledge if someone actually figured out a simple answer to the question, like, "stop eating oats on Tuesdays and you'll get high as fuck again." But I've been looking for so long to find an outlet that can keep me from crawling back to the opioids every 3-4 days that I honestly can't say I would turnthis off if I could. Part of me wonders if I didn't just psychosomatically flip some sort of switch out of desperation to get completely clean off of opioids?

Maybe F.U.B.A.R. could move it there for me if you think it'd be a better place for it?

 

[nznity]

I want some morphine iv right now

 

[Nurse Ratched]

AhhhHHh well that's the answer I think I've been looking for. I never figured out where to post questions like these since the Advanced Drug Discussion forum got nixed however many years ago and I haven't been much of a regular since then. Thanks!

As for getting high, I mean, sure. But I actually considered not posting this thread at all because I was concerned what I might do with the knowledge if someone actually figured out a simple answer to the question, like, "stop eating oats on Tuesdays and you'll get high as fuck again." But I've been looking for so long to find an outlet that can keep me from crawling back to the opioids every 3-4 days that I honestly can't say I would turnthis off if I could. Part of me wonders if I didn't just psychosomatically flip some sort of switch out of desperation to get completely clean off of opioids?

Maybe F.U.B.A.R. could move it there for me if you think it'd be a better place for it?

Put the @ symbol in front of his name or PM him and ask him what he thinks. Hope you find the answers you seek grasshopper.

 

[Larimar]

Tolerance isnt just about how much you need it’s also about how high you can get etc. Also I have found Kratom really raises tolerance and makes it so you can not feel the euphoria from other opiates . Also it’s known and written about that once you use opiates so long the euphoria goes away and you just get the sedation, just like you are experiencing. You are going to have to quit everything for a few months to a year to feel the euphoria again . It sucks I know but you been doing it 13 years

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

AhhhHHh well that's the answer I think I've been looking for. I never figured out where to post questions like these since the Advanced Drug Discussion forum got nixed however many years ago and I haven't been much of a regular since then. Thanks!

As for getting high, I mean, sure. But I actually considered not posting this thread at all because I was concerned what I might do with the knowledge if someone actually figured out a simple answer to the question, like, "stop eating oats on Tuesdays and you'll get high as fuck again." But I've been looking for so long to find an outlet that can keep me from crawling back to the opioids every 3-4 days that I honestly can't say I would turnthis off if I could. Part of me wonders if I didn't just psychosomatically flip some sort of switch out of desperation to get completely clean off of opioids?

Maybe F.U.B.A.R. could move it there for me if you think it'd be a better place for it?

I will happily move this thread over to the 'Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion' (the new incarnation of Advanced Drug Discussion) subforum if you like?

Apologies for not reading your posts properly, but I now realise you want a scientific reason for your experience rather than just looking for ways around it.


Just say 'yay or 'nay', your wish is my command


(Unless you want bumsex...)

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I'm just asking if there are any other known biological or neurological explanations for the sudden cessation of opioid response.

As a poly user myself I do understand (a baby here when it comes to this) that some substances will effect the efficacy of other substances.
Would you mind listing the poly usage by item and dose?
Maybe something can be found, idk. Just a stab inda dark here but sometimes we actually swing and hit.
Just be careful (I know a canned response) and be as safe as possible?
Always

 

[Iceman1216]

I must agree with @F.U.B.A.R. on this fact! I have seen it many times over the decades in NYC ( we have Always had an very large H community) . I am so sad for all the young people who are getting into the Addiction game of opiates now The sad fact is that after long term use of All drugs, a brain and boby stop responding to them.
As an alcoholic , In the end I just could Not get drunk no matter how hard I tried, all I was doing was killing myself.
13 years is a good run!!
No one is doing any research in to the cause of your problem. When a certain opiate does not work in a medical situation they just increase the potency, and amount till it works for the short time a medical procedure needs it. Fentynal, and the other analogs of it !
Sorry dude I got Sober, and All is well.
I still do THC gummies, and take 10-20 mgs of Hydrocodone a day due to chronic pain from radiation caused by cancer treatments. I do not use either to get high though, just make it through the day and night

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Sounds like a great plan to me.... edit: paradox that I would love and hate a hook up with this.

Edit:

I want some morphine iv right now

 

[Iceman1216]

Me Too:
My problem is I have and can only have that in a hospital setting ( a big scarredy cat of Fucking up my arms with needles I have friends that have whole sleeves, on both arms to cover the damage

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I have friend that have whole sleeves, on both arms to cover the damage

Never had an issue with veins back inda day and still don't. I may have missed a little here or there in a rush but just explained it away as flea bites from my cats (didnt have any then lol ).
I have noticed the sleeves on others and it just seems like a dead give away. But who cares these days? I mean, really? I think most would rather see us out the door anyway....
Sadly