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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

Misc Do drug dealers in Ireland give stuff on 'credit' and then threaten you/your family if you don't pay back?

Also in Ireland and especially the north.

It’s the UVF and IRA who sell the drugs and it’s also them who give out punishment beatings to known drug dealers/users to appease their communities. It’s very complicated and makes next to no sense.
 
Vastness said:
Like most drug users, I assume, I've dabbled in dealing when I was younger although I was never very good at it, and as you would no doubt have guessed, got off very lightly. I sold pills in clubs for a while, some of them of very dubious quality that I would have an ethical problem with selling now, until I was caught by a bouncer being absurdly indiscreet and careless and after some physical (but not excessive) manhandling, intimidation and frightening verbal threats the point was made and he obviously recognised I was out of place in that world and not worthy of a more serious punishment.

That said, that particular club was known to be very corrupt and lax when it came to drug enforcement so quite likely he just ended up adding to the stash to be sold by the approved in house dealers. I also witnessed a friend of mind who did it with me (although less often) get physically mugged in a far more violent fashion and was unable to effectively intervene - in that circumstance I wouldn't have been surprised if someone pulled a knife.

I have witnessed and experienced drug related violence, of course, I'm sure many of us here have. Nothing close to kneecapping, in my case, fortunately. But it's also irrelevant to the discussion. Not having experienced any such violence doesn't and shouldn't exclude anyone from this discussion, and honestly just proves my point about this blase attitude to excessive violence being a kind of transparent bravado - "you just don't know what it's like, leave the drug world to the real men (or women, perhaps, less commonly) who understand what's needed!".

"That's just how it is", is not an argument. It's also irrelevant. I feel we're repeating ourselves now so I won't go on too much. But my position - in case it isn't clear enough - is that regardless of how it is, it's just not good enough, ideologically lazy, apathetic misanthropy to just keep saying "yeah it shouldn't happen, but that's how it is".

We obviously all know it happens. Equally, we hopefully all know it's wrong. Incessantly focusing on how people just need to understand and (perhaps - by implication even if you didn't directly say it) accept it - is no good to anyone, again it is fence sitting, ideological laziness, and refusal to take a strong moral position on an obviously barbaric crime.
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Let's agree to disagree. I'm a fencesitter, you're a shitty drugdealer. :)

And I am lazy, apathetic and misanthropic, I've never said I'm not.
I'm also nihilistitic, so the "take-a-strong-moral-position" argument makes me giggle.

I am however, not macho in any way. I'm scrawny, quiet - you wouldn't notice me in a room.
But for several reasons I ended up in a place where this is common stuff.


Just a tips for future endeavors you might have while discussing -
dragging up comparisons to nazi-Germany just makes you look like you're grasping.
name-calling - also not that classy.

Wish you all the best, Vastness.
 
dalpat077 said:
Fuck me gently. Never heard of that either until now (seems to be an education day for me today)! :unsure:

Needless to say: I'm pretty astounded i.e. I've seen this play out way too many times right here in the past year for it to be a mere coincidence!
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See? I'm not all bullshit and Forrest Gump! XD
 
pulverstaden said:
dragging up comparisons to nazi-Germany just makes you look like you're grasping.
name-calling - also not that classy.

Wish you all the best, Vastness.
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I thought it was an appropriate reference in that particular case, I'm not entirely sure Godwin's law applies, but I'll consider that and try to think of a better example next time I have the urge to bring up Nazism.

Did I name call? I don't remember doing so but if I did I apologise, I agree it's not classy, is unnecessary, and almost invariably dilutes the strength of whatever point is being made. If you thought I did in a more roundabout sense with the machismo thing - wasn't my intention, apologies if they're due.

Happy to agree to disagree anyway. Wish you much happiness and good fortune in life, and obviously I hope you don't get kneecapped ever. ;) On that note, please don't be kneecapping anyone else! 😄
 
Vastness said:
I thought it was an appropriate reference in that particular case, I'm not entirely sure Godwin's law applies, but I'll consider that and try to think of a better example next time I have the urge to bring up Nazism.

Did I name call? I don't remember doing so but if I did I apologise, I agree it's not classy, is unnecessary, and almost invariably dilutes the strength of whatever point is being made. If you thought I did in a more roundabout sense with the machismo thing - wasn't my intention, apologies if they're due.

Happy to agree to disagree anyway. Wish you much happiness and good fortune in life, and obviously I hope you don't get kneecapped ever. ;) On that note, please don't be kneecapping anyone else! 😄
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Well, like I said - I'm lazy, apaphetic and what you said, so I don't mind hearing that.
But someone else probably wouldn't be too happy. Excuse me my trepassases of you felt attacked as well - it was not my intention.

It might be my sensitive ass, but I'd rather be called cunt, dick, ass, motherfucker or any other word than being called "macho", haha.

Haha, believe me, I won't. And I not really playing with those mean boys anymore, hehe. :D

Hopefully, someday, all this senseless violence won't be necessary.

Keep up the good fight man!
 
dalpat077 said:
For the sake of my own interest (obviously I suppose) could you explain this further?
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Okay so take one of the paramilitary groups called uvf or uda, which loyalist side and all protestant, they mostly sell anything that isn't heroin, so wat might happen is u take an half Oz of coke, sell it and they toss ya another half Oz , so now Ur hustling n someone in the community has seen u sellin sumwhere and has made a complaint to their mate Hu happens to b part of the UVF or uda

so now they gotta protect their image of being 'tough on drugs' stance, they will then say to the coke dealer, you've been seen in the community selling coke (even tho they gave them it and the contacts to sell to) and they are gonna beat ya up (easiest punishment) or kneecap ya, (I know someone they ran over their legs n she was left with bit marks), you can kick n scream that they r the ones doin it but they no that, that's y I wuld say with one hand they give u the drugs and using the other they punish u for sellin em
 
Vastness said:
Irrelevant. Illegality of drugs is not an excuse for more illegal and especially explicitly violent behaviour. People like this are part of the problem as much as the cunts who kicked off the drug war in the first place. Yes, dark and darker drug associated crimes do occur, cartels being the obvious example. Doesn't make kneecapping OK or somehow excusable, understandable, not something to care about. Dealing drugs doesn't make you a savage, kneecapping people on the basis of extorted debt disputes does.



(edited out apology comment relating to said unnecessary political aside, above, I actually deleted this first by accident, I was going to leave it in but nevermind. anyone who knows what I'm referring to - apologies.)
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I must live a very ivory tower life because in 35 years of taking drugs I have never even heard of someone copping a beating for drug related debts or rip-offs. I have read about the occasional violent altercation between bikies and wannabe gangsters in the news. And of course, I’ve also seen people on drugs get violent for one reason or another. But someone resorting to violence to settle a debt or resolve a rip-off: never. I have heard many people threaten violence but never seen one follow through.
 
Atelier3 said:
I must live a very ivory tower life because in 35 years of taking drugs I have never even heard of someone copping a beating for drug related debts or rip-offs. I have read about the occasional violent altercation between bikies and wannabe gangsters in the news. And of course, I’ve also seen people on drugs get violent for one reason or another. But someone resorting to violence to settle a debt or resolve a rip-off: never. I have heard many people threaten violence but never seen one follow through.
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Where is this magic land of none violence you speak of? I've heard and seen people getting shanked over petty 20's.

A dude got a knife stabbed into his neck outside my building a few weeks ago. That was over 50 bucks.

Most of these are usually young "kickers" in their early, early twentys, and 9/10 times, it's due to fear of repercussions from their "bosses".
 
pulverstaden said:
Where is this magic land of none violence you speak of? I've heard and seen people getting shanked over petty 20's.

A dude got a knife stabbed into his neck outside my building a few weeks ago. That was over 50 bucks.

Most of these are usually young "kickers" in their early, early twentys, and 9/10 times, it's due to fear of repercussions from their "bosses".
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I’m not saying drug violence doesn’t exist. Just that in my personal experience in Australia and to a limited extent in Paris and Southeast Asia I have never encountered it or heard a firsthand report of someone dishing it out or being the victim.
 
Atelier3 said:
I’m not saying drug violence doesn’t exist. Just that in my personal experience in Australia and to a limited extent in Paris and Southeast Asia I have never encountered it or heard a firsthand report of someone dishing it out or being the victim.
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Made more sense.
I can say there is ALOT more of that shit where live now with around 200k people, than in Oslo, where close to 700k people live.

But then again, here it happens in the open, on a regular street.
In Oslo, behind closed doors.
 
matt<3ketamine said:
Okay so take one of the paramilitary groups called uvf or uda, which loyalist side and all protestant, they mostly sell anything that isn't heroin, so wat might happen is u take an half Oz of coke, sell it and they toss ya another half Oz , so now Ur hustling n someone in the community has seen u sellin sumwhere and has made a complaint to their mate Hu happens to b part of the UVF or uda

so now they gotta protect their image of being 'tough on drugs' stance, they will then say to the coke dealer, you've been seen in the community selling coke (even tho they gave them it and the contacts to sell to) and they are gonna beat ya up (easiest punishment) or kneecap ya, (I know someone they ran over their legs n she was left with bit marks), you can kick n scream that they r the ones doin it but they no that, that's y I wuld say with one hand they give u the drugs and using the other they punish u for sellin em
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Well, that's straight up sociopathic and sadistic, makes no sense whatsoever.
 
It isnt just as bad where I stay but folk used to get shot and stabbings are comnon or get whacked with a tyre iron
 
matt<3ketamine said:
Okay so take one of the paramilitary groups called uvf or uda, which loyalist side and all protestant, they mostly sell anything that isn't heroin, so wat might happen is u take an half Oz of coke, sell it and they toss ya another half Oz , so now Ur hustling n someone in the community has seen u sellin sumwhere and has made a complaint to their mate Hu happens to b part of the UVF or uda

so now they gotta protect their image of being 'tough on drugs' stance, they will then say to the coke dealer, you've been seen in the community selling coke (even tho they gave them it and the contacts to sell to) and they are gonna beat ya up (easiest punishment) or kneecap ya, (I know someone they ran over their legs n she was left with bit marks), you can kick n scream that they r the ones doin it but they no that, that's y I wuld say with one hand they give u the drugs and using the other they punish u for sellin em
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Hey.

Thanks for that. I get it now. It's clever you have to admit. It's a public relations exercise if you think about it. I guess it really does depend on who runs the show and where you are in this big wide world.

Reason I wanted clarification was simply to ascertain exactly what the shot was (no pun intended). In other words: if these were just some street level bums kicking up a fuss and pulling this shit then the powers that be should be nipping them in the bud because sooner or later they'd run the risk of fucking with somebody that felt that they no longer had anything to lose and, well, in that case shit could start flowing uphill.
 
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