What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[G_Chem]

^^^I believe that or maybe just the precursor itself being sold as is (as we see here and the analysis before.)

You also hit on my only drawback, how come the labs aren't seeing this... I still can't understand it either. But.. If Glubra had two samples come to him from one of the places supposedly known for good mdma and both showed the exact same 2,3-MDP2P glycidate I can only assume either something is getting missed or Glubra's analysis is off. I have faith though that the information he is presenting is correct, in which case these analysis labs are for some reason not catching it.

I'd be willing to bet 2,3-MDP2P glycidate has some activity that could be perceived as enjoyable by some, and the fact it's a solid that resembles mdma makes it hard to distinguish by both user and moron chemist who thinks he just successfully aminated some glycidate in a one pot.

Edit- 1,000th post! We sure do talk a lot lol.

-GC

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Some excellent work going on here guys, keep it up!

Them pesky Dutch did a similar thing with the UK amphetamine sulphate scene in the late 80s - started producing and exporting on an industrial scale, but with an inferior quality product IMO. Prior to that, I believe the majority of illicit sulphate in the UK was home produced on a small scale - it was the tits...

 

[G_Chem]

^^^I remember reading you talking about that a few years ago in some other thread.. Just curious what was the purity like before it went to shit?

Funny thing my girl is over traveling Europe right now. She saw a comedian somewhere in UK and during his show the guy was ragging on some girl in the front saying something about .5g of speed then followed up with "shit I need a gram myself to even feel it.." As someone who can do 10-20mg in a night and be feeling it good, I can only surmise the speed is beyond garbage out there these days.

But thanks FUBAR, is guys like you who wouldn't stop bitchin that motivated this discussion to where it is today

I think we need to stop looking at the Netherlands like it's the top dog in drug production. It seems domestic product (no matter whether your from U.K., US, Aus, etc) always beats em.

-GC

 

[EntheoDjinn]

.......... She saw a comedian somewhere in UK ................. I can only surmise the speed is beyond garbage out there these days.

You are absolutely right G_Chem. Almost all the substances in UK are crap. There are small local pockets of quality, e.g. psytrance scene, privileged academics with good international contacts, but for the general mass population it's pretty terrible. Our Prime Minister was on national TV a couple of months ago and on PM's question time in parliament actually said she was determined to keep up the 'war on drugs'. The government is winning in a sense, people are buying shit and some of the 'bad' or 'stupid' drug users are dying.

We don't even allow marijuana products to be licensed for medical use - and yet we grow and process the stuff to sell to countries where it is used medically. That's incredibly messed up.

Rant over

Back on track, a lot of our MDMA comes from the Netherlands. And yes, it's crap.

 

[MrRoot]

What about Russian MDMA? I know for sure that most of the MDMA going in my area (Eastern FinlandJ comes from Russia as all the bulk selling guys have russian license plates in their cars or talk with an Russian accent.

 

[[email protected]]

Most mdma is made from mdp2p which would make it racemic

 

[Beenhead]

What about Russian MDMA? I know for sure that most of the MDMA going in my area (Eastern FinlandJ comes from Russia as all the bulk selling guys have russian license plates in their cars or talk with an Russian accent.

You are rubbing some pretty frightening shoulders!

 

[G_Chem]

@Entheodjinn- That's really sad to see, I felt like you guys were winning there for awhile proving a valuable point with the flourishing RC scene but after that blanket ban things seem bleak.

And I live a few hours away from a store where I can walk in and legally purchase any cannabis product I want. I can tell you first hand legalization has done nothing but good as far as I can see. The only downside is certain states becoming havens for homeless drifters, but I don't really even mind that either.. Once legalization takes hold everywhere even that problem won't exist.

@Korey- No it's not.. You don't deserve anymore explanation until you read the 1,000 post thread.


Russians have been known for both mdma production and supply, unfortunately it seems we don't know much about it. Or at least I don't..

-GC

 

[Glubrahnum]

Wow, 2,3-MDP2P glycidate wtf?! Where was the first one? I must have missed it.

Approximately a month ago.

How was that analyzed Glub?

Raman spectroscopy and the heavy metals with XRF.

The MDMA I had that was brown as shown was analyzed by GC/MS as 3,4-MDMA but I'm wondering now if they really could tell the difference via GC/MS whether it was actually 3,4 or not one of the regioisomers. But the fact that what you saw was actually precursor and not 2,3-MDMA is super weird to me.

There is a paper that we've been talking about here not so long ago that shows that such differentiation is very difficult with cheap GC stationary phases.

would you be willing to analyze it?

Yes but how to receive samples without giving out my address?

 

[Glubrahnum]

What makes you think it wouldn't react the same on Marquis? I think your right but I think it'd still be close enough to fool people. If I had to guess I'd say it reacts straight to black with maybe a hint of brown like others have complained about..

Frankly, I have never seen how MDP2P Glycidate reacts to Marquis. Is the methylenedioxy bridge on the aromatic ring enough to give purple/black color, regardless of the rest of the molecule ?
The Methamphetamine would discolor it somewhat, so it could be detectable.

As said before this would also explain the high dosage as well as lack of empathy/love. 2,3-MDMA has gotta be the most likely if impurities aren't the problem.

Possibly, but the jury is still out.

Great job man, I remember saying I needed more proof on the 2,3-mdma theory and we just got it.

The sample was brought to me by the same person that brought the other 2,3,-MDP2P containing sample before, so more testing from a variety of sources must be done to be conclusive.

Edit- Also that mercury leftover may be the cause of the LTC we see. If not it at least tells us hg/al was used for the amination.

I think the Hg comes from a bad Methamphetamine synth.
IMO opinion that much of methylated Hg is enough to leave you with not only LTC but PTC....as in "permanent".

Note: Raman spectroscopy is poor at detecting heavy metals because they are too close to the "laser line". If I did not do the XRF, I would have missed it.

 

[Glubrahnum]

So let me get this straight. This pill had just the percursor? No 2,3-MDMA?

Correct.
It is as if somebody did not even try to make the MDMA and they just mixed up the glycidate with some very bad batch of Methamphetamine.

 

[Glubrahnum]

^^^I believe that or maybe just the precursor itself being sold as is (as we see here and the analysis before.)
I'd be willing to bet 2,3-MDP2P glycidate has some activity that could be perceived as enjoyable by some, and the fact it's a solid that resembles mdma makes it hard to distinguish by both user and moron chemist who thinks he just successfully aminated some glycidate in a one pot.

I think this is a good theory.
IMO nobody tried to alter the 2,3-MDP2P Glycidate in the last sample. They just added some bad Meth to it to spruce it up ...maybe just to recover the cost of bad precursor purchase.

You also hit on my only drawback, how come the labs aren't seeing this...

Most likely they are focused more on quantity than quality.
Also, I am using Raman and most labs are using GC/MS with cheap columns so they can process many samples inexpensively.

 

[anon65535]

@Glub

I mean analyzing EC's findings. They said they would run the GCMS on full scan mode (someone referenced that or something similar like 10 pages ago). Full gradient? I don't remember exactly what the wording was. But is GCMS enough to see this difference?

No source/supply - even for lab testing - Tranced

 

[Glubrahnum]

Most mdma is made from mdp2p which would make it racemic

Unless someone found a way to convert chiral MDP2P Glycidate direcly to MDMA, without going through the racemic MDP2P intermediate.

Also, even racemic MDMA can later be separated into its enantiomers by a chiral acid during its "salting" step, ...as we have seen with the MDMA Tartrate I recently analyzed.

 

[Glubrahnum]

@Glub
I mean analyzing EC's findings. They said they would run the GCMS on full scan mode (someone referenced that or something similar like 10 pages ago). Full gradient? I don't remember exactly what the wording was. But is GCMS enough to see this difference?

That paper we've been writing about should answer your questions about GC/MS performance with 3,4-MDMA isobaries and regioisomers.

Keep it clean - Tranced

The government is winning in a sense, people are buying shit and some of the 'bad' or 'stupid' drug users are dying.

Just like in the latest Kingsman 2 movie.

It is a really devious and evil strategy...albeit an effective one. It infuriates me so much that I would be willing to set up shop in a safe country just to get to the bottom of this.

 

[Glubrahnum]

Giving out addresses to anyone you don't know mod or not and also passing on samples..... thats great and all but kinda dodgy?

...and it could get this forum raided and shut down for aiding and abetting international drug trafficing.

I prefer to find a country where I can receive and test small samples legally ...even if I have to report them later to the local authorities.

 

[G_Chem]

Ah yes if that was from the same source as before it could very well be a single source problem and not widespread. If we could analyze some other sourced samples and have similar findings then we may be on to something..

I'm glad you brought up what exactly that much mercury would do to a person as I was curious. It means without a doubt there's "mdma" out there which can really harm you.

How anyone could mistaken the effects of this concoction for legit mdma is beyond me but I guess piperazines ruled for awhile so anything can happen.

-GC

 

[SympatheticMD]

Ya’ll keep going at it! I’m impressed, yet a little lost. But I don’t mind. My only contribution is back to some discussion comparing US and Canadian product to markets in Europe and Russia. When I was looking into the drug enforcement reports (not sure how to phrase this, but the powers that be who chase and bust drug dealers), they were focusing on precursors likePMK glycidate/PMK glycidide and their salts.
Does that have any bearing on what Glubra found? More importantly, it was very clear that the production of these drugs is on a massive scale, and the labs are pushed to set up and clear out within a day – so anything they can do to shorten the process of making the drug, they will do (likely leading to impurities and poor product). From my brief research, most products in Europe were produced by these mass labs who purchased their precursors from China. So I tend to agree that stuff found in Canada and the US is more likely to be higher quality (and made from smaller labs)

But maybe you guys know all this anyway.

There is something called Protonmail that encodes messages to keep things somewhat private. You may need some other things like IPVanish and Tail, but I don’t know. I got lazy and quit with the covert stuff. Just thought I’d throw it out there in case anyone was interested.

 

[Beenhead]

I think this is a good theory.
IMO nobody tried to alter the 2,3-MDP2P Glycidate in the last sample. They just added some bad Meth to it to spruce it up ...maybe just to recover the cost of bad precursor purchase.


Most likely they are focused more on quantity than quality.
Also, I am using Raman and most labs are using GC/MS with cheap columns so they can process many samples inexpensively.

Little known fact about GC columns. They are made by I think maybe one or two companies in the whole world. Then They sell it to Thermo or Restek or Agilent who slaps their name on it.

Its also similar for C14 Reversed phase HPLC columns. Brands really dont matter. What does is the particle size, ID and length.

For anyone not wanting to read journals. With a single quad GCMS, you can get pretty good separation of the different MDMAs, but the MS spectrum will look basically the same. So with out a standard of 3,4-MDMA and 2,3-MDMA to know when each elutes, you will not really know which is which for sure.

You can get identifications with a ion trap or triple quad that can do tandem mass spec however, so there is that.

 

[PlayHard]

the price of mdma as gone up in the uk... <<edited out>> but from what i can see and hear is that its the mongy dutch mdma mostly... so it doesnt seem to have gone any cheaper here

your refering to the cola/tan like crystal yes? havent seen such since around october time last year - only nice "glass" like. which is far cleaner than any of the cola what was a float.