Sorry guys, I'd have put this in the Kratom thread but thought I'd get more attention faster this way.
If it pisses you off Mods, then just combine it into the thread:
I'd REALLY like some people who have tapered before to chime in on this thread cause I have some questions on Kratom tapering, and please, don't anyone tell me I should quit Kratom cause I've been told that before, and while I'd do it if TOTALLY necessary, I don't want to. I just want to break my current dependency, make sure I have ZERO WD for like 7 days in a row, then go back down to dosing 3 days a week instead of 4 to avoid being dependent which has mostly worked for 4 years for me now.
I'll give a TLRD version first with short questions first since many people don't like long windedness, then describe my current taper, so if you DON'T want to read my whole taper situation, PLEASE just answer the first few questions if you have the time and I'd really appreciate it.
History: This is my first taper because I've always stuck to 3-4 days a week to avoid WD and it usually worked but I slipped up & was too busy with work and school to cold turkey cause I needed to feel well enough to work so I decided to taper.
Usual dosing pattern includes: 3--6.5--7.0 gram doses, 3-4 days a week but NEVER more than 2 days in a row, and if I use 2 days in a row then not using 2 days in a row afterwards, not usually getting WD and if I do, toughing it out till it's gone to dose again.
Biggest questions:
1) If someone simply sticks with a taper long enough, whatever that taper is and however it's organized, isn't it pretty much about 99% likely they'll EVENTUALLY no longer have WD?
I mean, there's no way that if I just keep lowering the dosage more and more regularly that I'd NEVER break the dependency right? That's surely a sheer impossibility...
2) Do the intensity of Kratom WD symptoms and how quickly they show up increase if you've been addicted before?
Like, basically, does it get harder and harder to get away with these 3-4 day a week dosing schedules I've been doing once I've experienced WD?
Cause I've heard it's true...like a kindling effect...and if it is, I know I just need to use it less.
3) So, lets say I'm tapering down 0.5 grams a day....6.5, 6.0, 5.5. etc.....and I got to 1.5 gs, then messed up and took 3-4 grams for one dose, does that completely fuck the whole taper, or does it just slow down the tapering process?
Does once or twice using higher doses, but not FULL doses (according to your personal tolerance) totally fuck up a taper? And if not, what effect DOES it have on a taper?
4) Does a slow taper make the WD symptoms less severe than simply quitting cold turkey?
I've heard it does, but I've quit cold turkey several times before, and my WD today while still on 1.5 grams is as bad as certain times on zero, so why would that be?
If you don't want to hear my whole taper and just want to answer those questions (which are the important ones), then read no further LOL:
My taper:
So, 15 days ago (Friday May 25th) I was not dependent on Kratom.
Then I took my typical doses, 3--7 gram doses on a Saturday (26th) and a Sunday (27th) in a row.
This would normally be the point at which I'd take off Monday and Tuesday and dose on Wednesday, as I've found 2 days off for every 2 on works.
So I took off that Monday (May 28th), but broke my rule, and DIDN'T take off that Tuesday (29th) and a mild dependency started.
I dosed again Wednesday (30th), but skipped Thursday and Friday (the 31st and June 1st)
Then I dosed Saturday and Sunday in a row (2nd and 3rd) (typical for me), but because of my slip up, felt I had to dose that Monday (the 4th) (this was 5 days ago) and start a taper, and instead of taking my normal 7 gram doses, I took 1--4.5 gram dose, and 1--4 gram dose and felt fine.
Tuesday (the 5th)--Took one 3.5 gram dose and one 4.75 gram dose and felt fine (now I decided to go down by 0.5mgs a day).
Wednesday (the 6th)---Took 1 SINGLE 3 gram dose and felt fine
Thursday (the 7th)---Took 2--2.5 gram doses and felt fine (they were seperated from the last dose the day before by 16 1/2 hours so i figure that was good).
Friday (yesterday) (the 8th)--Took 2--2 gram doses and felt fine
But today, Saturday the 9th, I finally tried to go below 2 grams to 1.5grams and still felt like shit....dealt with it, took a nap, still felt shitty so now I took a 4 gram dose (still only a little more than half my usual dose but probably too high).
Did I totally fuck up my taper by taking that one higher dose?
And I just keep working at it and tapering long enough, isn't it pretty much a given I'll eventually get to the point where I am RELATIVELY comfortable not taking Kratom for several days in a row and breaking the dependency so I can go back to CAREFULLY dosing 3 days a week (never in a row)???
I mean I've been able to stick to a schedule of 3-4 days a week for FOUR years now without ever getting TRULY dependent, and prior to this week, I'd only TWICE gone 5 days in a row taking Kratom, never even went 6, but now I've gone eight days in a row taking it, and I'm not happy about it.
I'm still determined to learn to get back to a moderate usage and avoid tapering situations and not use daily like others on here, but I figured sooner or later I'd end up having to taper, so now I'm trying to learn the rules around tapering to avoid WD, since I figure it could happen again.
If I HAVE to quit I'll quit, but I see no reason why I should be at that point yet.
I think if I can just break the dependency for a week and go back to 3 days a week instead of 4 I should be fine.
Any advice or answers to those questions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Post script: It's quite possible I might actually only be feeling bad from a negative reaction to some Concerta someone gave me today, since I was feeling fine before it kicked in...It'll wear off in about 3 hours, so I guess we'll see...
Anyone??...
I especially want to know if:
1) taking one full dose or close to a full dose (dependent on tolerance) will completely fuck up a taper and start you back at zero
2) if an organized taper will pretty much always work as long as you stick to it long enough
3) if a slow taper makes the WD symptoms better on your first day of complete abstainance than quitting cold turkey and
4) if once you've been dependent before it makes your WD symptoms come on more quickly and intensely in the future.
You can skip the entire post before this if it's too long to just answer these 4 questions.
Thanks
Shit, I fucked up and took a full dose.
Does one full dose (6.5 grams) ruin an entire taper or will it just slow it down and make it take longer to break the dependency?
Did I basically undo the entire taper I've been doing all week and set me back to zero or can I just pick up where I left off tomorrow at a lower dose?
I realize everyone is out cause it's Saturday night but I've never tapered before so I don't know how it works.
I'll just wait till people are around to answer, most likely tomorrow...
If it pisses you off Mods, then just combine it into the thread:
I'd REALLY like some people who have tapered before to chime in on this thread cause I have some questions on Kratom tapering, and please, don't anyone tell me I should quit Kratom cause I've been told that before, and while I'd do it if TOTALLY necessary, I don't want to. I just want to break my current dependency, make sure I have ZERO WD for like 7 days in a row, then go back down to dosing 3 days a week instead of 4 to avoid being dependent which has mostly worked for 4 years for me now.
I'll give a TLRD version first with short questions first since many people don't like long windedness, then describe my current taper, so if you DON'T want to read my whole taper situation, PLEASE just answer the first few questions if you have the time and I'd really appreciate it.
History: This is my first taper because I've always stuck to 3-4 days a week to avoid WD and it usually worked but I slipped up & was too busy with work and school to cold turkey cause I needed to feel well enough to work so I decided to taper.
Usual dosing pattern includes: 3--6.5--7.0 gram doses, 3-4 days a week but NEVER more than 2 days in a row, and if I use 2 days in a row then not using 2 days in a row afterwards, not usually getting WD and if I do, toughing it out till it's gone to dose again.
Biggest questions:
1) If someone simply sticks with a taper long enough, whatever that taper is and however it's organized, isn't it pretty much about 99% likely they'll EVENTUALLY no longer have WD?
I mean, there's no way that if I just keep lowering the dosage more and more regularly that I'd NEVER break the dependency right? That's surely a sheer impossibility...
2) Do the intensity of Kratom WD symptoms and how quickly they show up increase if you've been addicted before?
Like, basically, does it get harder and harder to get away with these 3-4 day a week dosing schedules I've been doing once I've experienced WD?
Cause I've heard it's true...like a kindling effect...and if it is, I know I just need to use it less.
3) So, lets say I'm tapering down 0.5 grams a day....6.5, 6.0, 5.5. etc.....and I got to 1.5 gs, then messed up and took 3-4 grams for one dose, does that completely fuck the whole taper, or does it just slow down the tapering process?
Does once or twice using higher doses, but not FULL doses (according to your personal tolerance) totally fuck up a taper? And if not, what effect DOES it have on a taper?
4) Does a slow taper make the WD symptoms less severe than simply quitting cold turkey?
I've heard it does, but I've quit cold turkey several times before, and my WD today while still on 1.5 grams is as bad as certain times on zero, so why would that be?
If you don't want to hear my whole taper and just want to answer those questions (which are the important ones), then read no further LOL:
My taper:
So, 15 days ago (Friday May 25th) I was not dependent on Kratom.
Then I took my typical doses, 3--7 gram doses on a Saturday (26th) and a Sunday (27th) in a row.
This would normally be the point at which I'd take off Monday and Tuesday and dose on Wednesday, as I've found 2 days off for every 2 on works.
So I took off that Monday (May 28th), but broke my rule, and DIDN'T take off that Tuesday (29th) and a mild dependency started.
I dosed again Wednesday (30th), but skipped Thursday and Friday (the 31st and June 1st)
Then I dosed Saturday and Sunday in a row (2nd and 3rd) (typical for me), but because of my slip up, felt I had to dose that Monday (the 4th) (this was 5 days ago) and start a taper, and instead of taking my normal 7 gram doses, I took 1--4.5 gram dose, and 1--4 gram dose and felt fine.
Tuesday (the 5th)--Took one 3.5 gram dose and one 4.75 gram dose and felt fine (now I decided to go down by 0.5mgs a day).
Wednesday (the 6th)---Took 1 SINGLE 3 gram dose and felt fine
Thursday (the 7th)---Took 2--2.5 gram doses and felt fine (they were seperated from the last dose the day before by 16 1/2 hours so i figure that was good).
Friday (yesterday) (the 8th)--Took 2--2 gram doses and felt fine
But today, Saturday the 9th, I finally tried to go below 2 grams to 1.5grams and still felt like shit....dealt with it, took a nap, still felt shitty so now I took a 4 gram dose (still only a little more than half my usual dose but probably too high).
Did I totally fuck up my taper by taking that one higher dose?
And I just keep working at it and tapering long enough, isn't it pretty much a given I'll eventually get to the point where I am RELATIVELY comfortable not taking Kratom for several days in a row and breaking the dependency so I can go back to CAREFULLY dosing 3 days a week (never in a row)???
I mean I've been able to stick to a schedule of 3-4 days a week for FOUR years now without ever getting TRULY dependent, and prior to this week, I'd only TWICE gone 5 days in a row taking Kratom, never even went 6, but now I've gone eight days in a row taking it, and I'm not happy about it.
I'm still determined to learn to get back to a moderate usage and avoid tapering situations and not use daily like others on here, but I figured sooner or later I'd end up having to taper, so now I'm trying to learn the rules around tapering to avoid WD, since I figure it could happen again.
If I HAVE to quit I'll quit, but I see no reason why I should be at that point yet.
I think if I can just break the dependency for a week and go back to 3 days a week instead of 4 I should be fine.
Any advice or answers to those questions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Post script: It's quite possible I might actually only be feeling bad from a negative reaction to some Concerta someone gave me today, since I was feeling fine before it kicked in...It'll wear off in about 3 hours, so I guess we'll see...
Anyone??...
I especially want to know if:
1) taking one full dose or close to a full dose (dependent on tolerance) will completely fuck up a taper and start you back at zero
2) if an organized taper will pretty much always work as long as you stick to it long enough
3) if a slow taper makes the WD symptoms better on your first day of complete abstainance than quitting cold turkey and
4) if once you've been dependent before it makes your WD symptoms come on more quickly and intensely in the future.
You can skip the entire post before this if it's too long to just answer these 4 questions.
Thanks
Shit, I fucked up and took a full dose.
Does one full dose (6.5 grams) ruin an entire taper or will it just slow it down and make it take longer to break the dependency?
Did I basically undo the entire taper I've been doing all week and set me back to zero or can I just pick up where I left off tomorrow at a lower dose?
I realize everyone is out cause it's Saturday night but I've never tapered before so I don't know how it works.
I'll just wait till people are around to answer, most likely tomorrow...
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