What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[Glubrahnum]

If this PMK glycidate was impure any impurities would likely be brought through to the final product. Whoever receives this PMK glycidate assumes it's pure and proceeds. It's a recipe for some unknown impurities and possibly more.

Surprised I just thought of that... Anyone know what kind of impurities might be present in PMK glycidate?

Nasty stuff: Glycidol, Glycidamide, Glycidic acid and various prop-2-enoyl compounds which can be aminated to such things as Acrylamide

 

[G_Chem]

Glubra I could kiss you right now..

Something just clicked... I'll be back later with more as I'm busy at the moment but...

As we can plainly see from the MDMA forums something has clearly changed in terms of long term negative symptoms. Many of these people after only 1-2 uses! This huge surge of reports correlates with the increased use of PMK glycidate.

Acrylamide is a known neurotoxin that disrupts normal monoamine levels and has been found to target the serotonin system specifically among others.

This all makes sense now, having acrylamide present even in small amounts would fit the profile for the "LTC" symptoms we see here on bluelight.

Not only that but you can assume it'd probably affect the experience too as well as the initial comedown.

The pieces are falling in to place..

-GC

 

[LucidSDreamr]

The unfortuneate fact still exists that no labs will test for these imputities....

If some good hearted soul with an lcms would run samples on a full scan mode (which analaysis labs don't do, they only use mrm which only looks for what they tell it to look for) I would be happy to handle the data review.

This is going to take someone with an lcms at thier disposal to figure out.

Which labs do analysis? I'm curious how much they would charge to simply just run a generic gradient on full scan mode and just give the raw spectrums s
To us with no analaysu or "result" on thier part

 

[anon65535]

That is NASTY. Great post Glub. All of those checmicals are known carcinogens.

EC does do LC/MS testing. Per their site "Gas Chromatography coupled to Mass Spectrometer (GC-MS) and Liquid Chromatography coupled with Mass Spectrometer (LC-MS). Let me hit up Luis and see if he'd be willing to do a full scan mode on a sample. Though just because one sample doesn't have it doesn't mean another does.

 

[indigoaura]

Toxins in PMK glycidate would also explain why some users insist that the safrole derived MDMA is better. The toxins would not be present in the safrole, if I am understanding everything correctly.

 

[G_Chem]

^^Indeed, these toxic substances are unique to PMK glycidate and not only toxic but seemingly highly toxic. Exposure to even smallest amount of acrylamide can cause some really fucked up things with our neurotransmitters. The good ol safrole MD that we grew up on was free of that shit.

Also I like what I'm hearing lucid and anon I really hope we can find someone as this could be the final nail in the coffin if we can detect some of these toxic substances.

And we'd definitely wanna test a few samples, I'm curious what the cost of something like that is? Or can we not speak of that cuz the rules n all?

Edit- After reading more it seems, like MDMA, the toxicity of acrylamide is attenuated when antioxidants are taken in as well. All the more reason people should be consuming antioxidants during a roll. I can imagine the combo of MDMA and acrylamide could wreak havoc on the serotonin system.

Also another article said they've only seen full recovery in people with low exposure. This also seems to ring true with what we read in the recovery threads here in the MDMA forum. Recovery seems long hard and never fully complete more tolerated by those who went in too deep.

-GC

 

[LucidSDreamr]

This thread and the LTC thread honestly scare the living shit out of me from taking MDMA again. I threw away my dissociatives due to bladder pain.

It's looking like LSD is the last go-to psychedelic I can take without worrying about permanent damage.

Then on the opiate front we've got fentanyl in basically everything including counterfeit benzos...jesus one can worry them self sick just thinking of getting high

 

[G_Chem]

And of course let us not forget good ol dewormer in cocaine haha yea it's a sad state right now for sure. I was thinking the same thing actually, let's say we are right on this toxic impurity theory, we have zero way of figuring out what's good MDMA or bad and it's a pretty high risk.

Yea I agree though it seems the psychedelics like LSD, psilocybin, DMT, and Mescaline are the few untainted left.

I'm curious lucid, since me and you still seem to roll fine, if you don't mind me asking what part of the world you from? I wonder if this LTC phenomenon is more a U.K. thing? I'm from the US.

I've actually been tracking and helping those with what you guys on BL call LTC since 2011 or so. I remember in the beginning I thought pipes but then after awhile of hearing reports of people with reagent tested product doing this and I had to concede to the fact it was our beloved MD doing it. Back then it was only a few here and there and now it's completely flooded all the MDMA forums out there.

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

If any of you determine a lab that can be paid for these services, let me know. I will gladly send along a sample and pay for the sample to be analyzed.

Definitely feeling foolish for the potential crap I have exposed myself to. I went by old-school rules and assumed that lab tested, reagent tested product was providing you with an authentic end result. Nobody ever talked about one MDMA being different from another, or about undetectable adulterants in lab tested product.

 

[indigoaura]

Also...observed an acquaintance partaking of MDMA. Minimal effects and no eye dilation on 100 mg, even after several hours. A second 100 mg dose did produce minimal eye dilation after about one hour. Nothing like the photo that was posted though.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

And of course let us not forget good ol dewormer in cocaine haha yea it's a sad state right now for sure. I was thinking the same thing actually, let's say we are right on this toxic impurity theory, we have zero way of figuring out what's good MDMA or bad and it's a pretty high risk.

Yea I agree though it seems the psychedelics like LSD, psilocybin, DMT, and Mescaline are the few untainted left.

I'm curious lucid, since me and you still seem to roll fine, if you don't mind me asking what part of the world you from? I wonder if this LTC phenomenon is more a U.K. thing? I'm from the US.

I've actually been tracking and helping those with what you guys on BL call LTC since 2011 or so. I remember in the beginning I thought pipes but then after awhile of hearing reports of people with reagent tested product doing this and I had to concede to the fact it was our beloved MD doing it. Back then it was only a few here and there and now it's completely flooded all the MDMA forums out there.

-GC

I'm in US.

This just in...mushrooms and cacti are growing laced with fentanyl :-(

 

[Goodwalt]

Im from Argentina and all the mdma around here seems to be that dutch crap.

 

[Glubrahnum]

Also...observed an acquaintance partaking of MDMA. Minimal effects and no eye dilation on 100 mg, even after several hours. A second 100 mg dose did produce minimal eye dilation after about one hour. Nothing like the photo that was posted though.

Some of the MD-P2P Glycidate contaminants are known neurological depressants.
Perhaps their depressive action can interfere with Mydriasis (pupil dilation)... and cause Mongy experiences.

 

[G_Chem]

^^^I think you hit it on the head. If we look it seems to be a commonality that batches which are mongy seem to contain an impurity with an alcohol group on em. Indigos product that's mongy contains MDP2Pol and we now can see glycidol is quite possibly in this Dutch mong. Makes perfect sense as to why this stuff lately completely spaces you out by people's accounts.

I will say if 100mg of MDMA should get said person some decent sized pupils and energy. Indeed 100 followed by 100 would have most I know ballsin out as the kids say lol.

-GC

 

[Biscuit]

Well done everyone, especially Glubra and G_Chem, this is a very interesting development.

I posted this in another thread a while ago, but this thread warrants a repost.

The link below is to the latest Australian Crime and Intelligence Commission reports on illicit drug trends. https://acic.govcms.gov.au/sites/g/files/net1491/f/2017/06/iddr_2015-16_amphetamine-type_stimulants.pdf?v=1498020180

Go to page 15 to 17; this table clearly shows that after 2011/2012 there was a complete and total shift from borohydride (isn't that supposed to be cyanoborohydride) to hydrogenation via platinum catalyst. Now this isn't limited to Australian produced drugs, but rather these results are from what was being stopped at our borders; what is being sent from the Netherlands for instance. The marked change in reductive amination route also seems to be around the same time as PMK-glycidate became widespread. A change to a pre-precursor (itself a chiral compound) and a shift to a different reductive amination route, could easily result in marked changes to the MDMA being produced; at the very least it is a possible explanation for what is plainly now undeniable.

On the topic of impurities in MDMA manufacture, have a look at this article, sadly not delving too much into PMK-glycidate. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/293330219_The_synthesis_and_characterisation_of_MDMA_derived_from_a_catalytic_oxidation_of_material_isolated_from_black_pepper_reveals_potential_route_specific_impurities

and this in particular at pages 30-43: https://opus.lib.uts.edu.au/bitstream/10453/34517/2/02whole.pdf.

Heavy going but on topic and worth a look; if posting links to such synthesis related information (albeit way over almost any ordinary punter's head) is against the rules, then I apologise in advance and I trust someone will take them down (just the last two).

 

[userlee5267]

i think its a scary time to actually take mdma, i had two friends alot younger than me who i work with who have just come back from a music festival and they took 8g of dutch mdma, they bought online.

they said they took the whole 8g in 2 days between just the two of them, said they were really enjoying them selfs. i asked about pupil dilation and they didnt have any, asked about empathy they had none, they were just glad to be twisted in there terms.

i tried to explain that what they had took could never be mdma at all as they wouldn't be able to do them kind of amounts at all, but they are certain it was as it was brown and it was crystally.

i explained how just a few pills would have you in love and pupils like saucers and they were saying that what we took when we were there age wasn's as strong thats why.

i am in disbelief and what they think is mdma when it surely cant be. they also mentione that what i was describing as mdma sounded more like the ketamine there friends were doing as they were all loved up and had massive pupils.

ummmm sounds like they aint got a clue nowadays. these lads are 18-19 years old... im closer to 40 lol

 

[G_Chem]

^^^Jesus man that's the problem right there but I'll get back to that in a min..

First off, much appreciated Biscuit that means a lot to me honestly a lot of what you've posted over the years has helped me formulate some ideas which I thank you for. Also those links are great especially the first one. I've been having a hard time finding stuff like that for more recent years, very interesting platinum hydrogenation has been used more often recently... When I can I'll look around to see what impurities may come about from that but your right it's interesting they changed the way they do reductive amination pretty much entirely as of the past few years.

But back to you userlee lol. My god kids these days, it'd take me years to go through 8g. Honestly I'd think most people would feel frazzled n burnt out after a gram or so over 2 days. I've seen people tell me they can take such and such amount who then get floored off 200mg when they try to play with the stuff I typically run into. 125mg is perfect plus a booster of 40-60mg of course.

The fact they don't even know that MDMA is supposed to dilate your pupils or give love to those around you shows things have definitely changed. Even in my area I don't see or feel the love like I used to.

Actually speaking of, I went to a show last Saturday and ran into an old buddy of mine from back 5-6yrs ago who I met at a mini hotel festival and hung with here and there. Soon as I ran into him I was reminded of what is no longer a part of the scene. Haven't seen or talked in 5yrs and he runs up and gives me the biggest hug. He doesn't roll anymore but just that brief period of his life left him with such a big heart. He and his friends were there running a charity at the show for a recently deceased friend. He also became a nurse to help people. We then got down like the ol days all of us dancing like we own the place while people who are all coked out stand there looking at us awkwardly. Probably just a nostalgic moment but damn it reminded me of when mints flowed like wine and all wasgood in the world.

I remember when you could just walk up to randoms and hug them just cuz you felt like it and thought they'd appreciate it too. Now your worried some coked drunk fuck might try and fight ya in return.

We need to get the love back in the scene. How we do that exactly idk but it needs to be done..

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

I will say if 100mg of MDMA should get said person some decent sized pupils and energy. Indeed 100 followed by 100 would have most I know ballsin out as the kids say lol.

Nobody was ballsin out. LOL. At 200 mg, the individual was acting normally and conversing in a typical fashion. There was some jaw movement noted, but overall the individual appeared minimally different from sobriety.

 

[anon65535]

Just want to add something even though it is out of the reach of 99.9% of users. If it comes back that the cause of the shittiness is caused by synthesis impurities, the only way to get them out is to distill the freebase and resalt. Unfortunately, anything less than phase distillation will not work.

Boiling points at 1atm assumed:
Freebase MDMA - 100-110C
Acrylamide - 241C
Glycidol - 167C
Glycolic Acid - Decomposes (MP at 75C so one may have to watch between 75C and 100C)

Generally distillation of the freebase is the only way to ensure purity. And skipping distillation of the freebase is almost guaranteed with the big labs. No way they do that. It's cheaper to not distill and to just add more product into pills.

Washing with acetone has and always will only be a surface cleaning.

 

[Glubrahnum]

If it comes back that the cause of the shittiness is caused by synthesis impurities, the only way to get them out is to distill the freebase and resalt. Unfortunately, anything less than phase distillation will not work.

Really?
What about A/B extraction with various solvents ?