Stimulants Amphetamine - The Drug You Learn to Hate

[CFC]

Anyone agree with me, amphetamine usage and cessation issues people have are 80%+ social/society issues. Like, it's not because of the drug, it's because of societies brain washing that makes the user feel isolated, alone, afraid to ask for help, afraid to just be calm and not worry about it. afraid to enjoy a very helpful antidepressant and mood lifter

Yes, reasons for drug usage are often to do with social alienation, isolation, the need for connection etc. Obviously when you cease taking them, that sense you felt before you started can become enhanced. Which tends to make things worse. A good antidepressant and mood stabiliser should do enough to lift you, but without causing a crash when you come off.

It's really disappointing this comes across as legit, and so many people read it.

I just read it. It's a nice post and a helpful perspective for those just embarking on years of meth/amp abuse. It certainly fits the situation of a lot of people addicted to amps who go into rehab.

None of which is to say that a person can't already have any of the issues described, or that those outcomes are predetermined or inevitable, or that other causes can't lead to the same ultimate outcomes.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

It represents what reward pathways correlate to: desiring something - irrelevant to if it is pleasurable.

Many addicts are confused when they keep using long after the experience stopped being euphoric.

 

[125BPM]

I am in the stage of Procrastination.

 

[mokele]

Great thread,Thanks so much.
Why do some people not fancy meth?Had some
last x-mas,friend shot up maybe 3matchheads and said kick was 1A,i snorted mine,was OK but we both agreed not sleeping 3 Day straight after so little and only 1 Dose for each.Does opie addiction interfer with meth euphoria?
Book Tip-forgot titel but its from Bill Burroughs son about his really really heavy meth addiction times.He stopped and drunk himself to death,but what sumone PLEASE explain(Captain,TRO?)Why do some get soo addicted to meth and some dont even want to do it ,only in rare Situation like heavy work?Is it the opies blocking Dopamin?Crack,homemade of course,i cant stop till gone,then scrape the pipe,crazy i know.
But meth...

 

[keeping]

Why do some people not fancy meth?

stigma. it has a certain image attached to it of its users. kind of like how methadone is seen as a shameful and homeless kind of drug, meth has the whole hillbilly image going for it.

and the book William Burroughs Jr. wrote is called Speed༼ ༎ຶ ෴ ༎ຶ༽

 

[bvrd man]

just stuck a 8t in a mini fridge and turned it to hot for 10 mins almost took my nose off when i opened the door

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Some people don't like meth because they're already weird and borderline and meth would only serve as a platform for further self destruction.

Others don't like the anxiety or lack of eating and sleep.

Some have psychotic symptoms because of brain differences.

It's hard to imagine not liking meth. Too euphoric. Even if you're not a stimulant person.

There are unique people though. I for one don't get much out of nicotine. It's possible for someone to not really enjoy meth the way the rest of us do.

 

[xbandit07x]

Some people don't like meth because they're already weird and borderline and meth would only serve as a platform for further self destruction.

Others don't like the anxiety or lack of eating and sleep.

Some have psychotic symptoms because of brain differences.

It's hard to imagine not liking meth. Too euphoric. Even if you're not a stimulant person.

There are unique people though. I for one don't get much out of nicotine. It's possible for someone to not really enjoy meth the way the rest of us do.

You could be assured the people that dont like meth are afraid of Health OCD and brain damage. Who is afraid of brain damage? people with close to anhedonia normally and dont want to make themselves forever worse. Ofcourse generally anxious/certain kinds of depressed people will not like Meth. Social phobic "weird people" and especially borderlines tend to love meth, or atleast Adderall/dex.

There is a small chunk of the population both mental illness and normal who seems to report their amphetamines as having psychotic effects just nonchalantly when they first tried them, and then usually dont like them again.
Like if you started tripping out /mildly hallucinating on your first 20 Ir adderall, its never going to be for you.

aMPHETAMINES are not a brain damaging with lower dopamine, because people with low dopamine and bad adhd never get a large reward release output or frontal cortex energy from any of the stims, even meth. Dont get me wrong, meth is LARGE dopamien release, but for an adhder it and regular amphet cause the brain to be slightly above an average persons amount of Dopamine. So its not neurotoxic to feel just a slightly better version of someone whos more Contetn than you's day.

people with low dopamine find it more addictive because they dont find amphetamiens bring them to crazy depths very easily. If you have very low dopamine already, you wont go psychotic or cause anxiety from your dopamine raising at the amounts released under 100 mg. Anxiety and anger from stimulants unrelated to paranoia has to do with glutamate, smoking weed beforehand always makes it euphoric agin and resemble a stage 2.

The one time i tried meth, I discovered the ability to sit down and not worry about time at all at my computer. Sure i was content, but that is NOT going to cause neurotoxictiy while another person who their first time doing meth they begin dancing and feelign estatic drippings of joy is burning out brain cells

 

[cyberius]

Been to stage seven, these stages are very accurate and real. I think as the stages progress you no longer even notice how much your body breaks down.

 

[Scrofula]

Sorry, the OP is a bunch of misinformed, overwrought bullshit.

The idea that meth/amphs have some kind of special tolerance mechanism or stages must come as a surprise to ADHD patients, who would be on stage 27 by now: their fifth revenant form as super-intelligent euphoria vampires.

There is nothing unique to dependence on stimulants compared to any other drug. The closest analog to meth use is fucking nicotine, which only puts you into a coma after a couple decades and the subsequent adverse reaction to chemotherapy agents.

Any user of any drug dependent or not may experience depression after a while. That is all the OP really describes. Those stages are personal and unique and are not a guarantee.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I think it's implied that the stages proceed as one increases their dosage to chase the initial high.

Again, not unique, but continuous abuse ends one up in a vastly different place than use.

And yet, there is: all addictive drugs increase dopamine starting in the VTA, spanning the whole mesocortical reward tract.

Meth and nicotine are actually pretty different for many reasons, such as meth assuring neurotoxicity and working via facilitated exchange diffusion of monoamines, nicotine not nearly so harmful and primarily working on aceylcholine. I can't imagine how you could compare the two. Also, methylenedioxymethampetamine (MDMA) and ampetamine are closer in structure to meth than nicotine is....

Meth rapes people's sanity in months. Nicotine, not. I mean, seriously?

 

[Scrofula]

Meth hasn't raped my sanity, thank you. And is the assurance of neurotoxicity dose-dependent, or is that acute or chronic, or did you just make that up?

I mean, seriously, are you going to state that addiction has a commonality with your VTA, but then dismiss a nicotine addiction because it's not structurally related?

 

[T0WEL1EEE]

Damn dude... First time I used meth it was just to see what all the "hype" was about and what it was that made it the biggest and baddest in the game.
I was a habitual spice user at the time and I only did a little line and thought to myself "wow I don't feel shit". I was up for about 40 hours and that experience planted a seed deep down.
I used the rest of that little bag just doing one time lines for no reason in particular other than to get it gone somehow.
I didn't seek out my next purchase, but someone offered me an 8th for 80$ and I saw my chance. The only way of administration I knew at the time was just to crush it up and snort it.
I started my binge by cutting up lines and sniffing them up until my pupils were so big you could barely see the color of my eyes. I would do line after line until my eyes got like that, not only could I see it in the mirror, but I could feel when my eyes got huge.
I felt the urge to drive because I like that sober and didn't know how else to enjoy this. So after numerous fat lines, I'd cut up more for the road so I wasn't carrying heavy. By the time I had enough powder for the drive, I'd make one or two more just to keep me really up.
I drove for 2 days straight. Mostly in neighborhoods. I had Google tracks going the whole time while blasting my music. I drove about 800 miles and spent a couple hundred dollars on gas. I would stop at my house every 12 or so hours to do some more lines and make some to take back out with me.
After I was done driving for 2 days, I think paranoia started setting in keeping me from going back out. I am decently sure that I did see tons of cops while I was driving. I did drive a lot and i wasn't trying to be unnoticed, so I'm not sure if there was more cops out than usual or if I was 'flagged' but it definitely felt like it. When I was driving I was looking in the rearview at least as much or more than I was looking in front.
After those 2 days, I drained much of the money I had and was feeling too nervous about getting lit up by the police, so I spent the next few days at home.
If I wasn't smashing up and sniffing a line, then I was flailing trying to figure out a good way to hide a little baggie for when I was on the road. I cut into probably a dozen stuffed animals I had and determined that I couldn't hide my stash spot well enough.

By day 3 or 4 I started to literally see shit that my eyes nor brain could differentiate between real and imaginary.
Lucky me started seeing red and blue lights everywhere I looked. Look out and see a car pass by and it looks like a cop. But I knew it wasn't real because I would look at leaves on a tree and after a few moments I would see the lights. Then I look around the tree and determine that if I did see a cop with his lights on, he'd have to be camped out on the roof of someone's two story house.
Soon my family fell asleep and the paranoia and hallucinations really amped up. I'd look out the window and see what I thought was a squad of cops, thinking they were after me.


My first binge didn't really ignite my desire for this drug, but it didn't extinguish it either.

I had to call in sick from work because I haven't eaten since I started my binge and I looked like a skinny zombie.

However, these days I only use so that I don't have to call in for work. Little bowl or little shot when I wake up and can barely open my eyes. Use a little H to level out and not be all sketched anymore and I'm good.

Wanted to explain more deeply but I'm sure I've probably rambled enough about what I did share. Haha, oh well.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Meth hasn't raped my sanity, thank you. And is the assurance of neurotoxicity dose-dependent, or is that acute or chronic, or did you just make that up?

I mean, seriously, are you going to state that addiction has a commonality with your VTA, but then dismiss a nicotine addiction because it's not structurally related?

By your logic, every recreational drug is "structurally related". There are tons of of different shades of euphoria, different mechanisms. Many just overlap in that they run along the reward tract, that's why we have classes of drugs. Your idea is wayyy too reductive, especially your example - LGIC's vs GPCR's.


Down the line, if you continue to use it, it will destroy more than you had expected.

Meth is toxic both in one dose, and so in several doses.

They prescribe it extremely judiciously at 25mg max, if I remember right, for extremely treatment-resistant ADHD/narcolepsy. At that point, the toxicity would be worth the medicinal effect.

How many people take only 25mg per day orally in divided doses for years without increasing dosage? How many people, on the other hand, without any medicinal application for a stimulant, go through a multi-day bender after snorting/smoking/smoking grams of the stuff, with ever increasing doses and at the cost of their relationships, health, and wealth?

Study after study describes it as neurotoxic. Even if 25 mg isn't toxic, it's so moreish and is sold in grams or more. People end up furthermore shooting or smoking the stuff, and again, frequently in 100's of milligrams or more. They buy 1000's of milligrams at a time.

Taken medically, maximum amount: 9.125g per year. orally Taken recreationally, people go through that every few weeks (eventually in a more addictive route)? Never been so unfortunate as to frequent that scene.

I haven't looked at the chemical structure, but benzos and opioids both work on the reward pathway, yet benzos don't increase opoidergic activity, and opoids decrease GABA.

Are you talking about the fMRI picture of addiction? They do vary.

Nicotine is a sort of atypical stimulant (in pure form). It directly acts on ionotropic nicotinic receptors, inccreasing acetylcholine which has downstream effects that create reward. Stimulants act on metabotropic monoaminergic (mostly NE) receptors. Their effect on acetylcholine isn't primary.

 

[Persistence11]

I can totally relate to Adderall addiction. I started taking Adderall when I was getting my Masters and working 3 jobs - not smart. One year and half later, I finished my Master's and tried to get off the Adderall. With the help of a professional I was able to do, but it sucked!!!! I am in my 40's and don't have the resilient mind like I use to. I have bridged the gap with coffee, Nicolette gum, and Provigil - I am not sure this is a good idea, but I work 12 hour shifts and need to keep my job for insurance. I am moving to a 8-5 job and then hope to wean off the stimulants. I have also found going to NA very uselful - this may help. I see a Psychiatrist and a Social Worker for support. I also use family and friends for support, but I am fighting isolation. One day at a time works for me. Give yourself some self compassion for sure, because you are not alone in your struggles. I am slowly reuniting with my 3 kids b/c my life turned to shambles. The cravings are intense. I don't know what your faith is, but I pray everyday and ask the Lord for strength. I would welcome input on my use of Provigil and Nicolette gum and coffee to bridge the gap so I can keep working and carry on. Rock It - Like NASA, signed Persistence11.

 

[llaredda]

well said.. i definetley look at my amps as a medicine, or a tool. however, due to my past, and the extensive damage i didnt realize i was doing to myself on street shit, i get the craving for that fix sometimes.. so like 2 to 3 days of the week, it looks like a recreation..... the other 4 days, it feels like a medicine. in my personal experience, if i deny myself the occasional indulgence, i always feel like crap. kinda like staring a a delicious burger and forcing yourself not to mau down

 

[llaredda]

that was me as a kid with . ADHD. my parents didnt want me on narcotics. in my case IMO, my life up to this point would have been more naturally productive and beneficial had i been on amps as a kid. probably would have COMPLETELY SKIPPED the cokehead phase at age 23 and would likely be only at stage 3 amp use instead of induced stage 8

 

[zoshmiester]

I found this helpful.

 

[LandsUnknown]

Interestingly, even after having a prescription for them during the last year or so, my tolerance hasn't really gone up all that much. Slightly, sure. However, the medication has been a positive influence in my life rather than a negative one. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the decline is ususlly only an issue when they're abused (e.g. you start shopping around between a bunch of doctors and end up on absurdly high doses or buy them from people to supplement your script and take way more than prescribed).

I did know someone who had serious issues from adderall abuse. Though, she shopped around and manipulated a doctor into scripting her 120mg of adderall a day. As you would expect, she didn't sleep well and started having real bad side effects. Other than that, most adults who were prescribed it said that it improved on it rather than having issues from it.

 

[dopedamsel]

that was worded perfectly and is sooo accurate. wow...