Stimulants Amphetamine - The Drug You Learn to Hate

[MocCozmiK]

So you have been taking 60mg doses in the morning for years? Interesting. I noticed that amphetamines are better in one dose, than spaced out, something about taking the second IR hours later after the initial dose, causes weird effects.

Yes. I'm prescribed 30mg 3 times daily. But I found taking the 60mg in the morning is more effective for me. And I usually don't take the other 30mg, but if I do I take it before 1:00pm

 

[spikeycloud]

This thread makes me think about my usage. Does all about also count for the fluor amphetamines like 4-FA 3-FA 2-FA 2-FMA etc? I heard they have some different actions in the brain than regular amph.

 

[strity1994]

I personally think amphetamines are the spawn of the devil. Yeah, I've seen some people post on this thread about how we should not 'accuse' the molecule, but whatever, I feel like you do have some justification to accuse amphetamines, Adderall, Vyvanse, Focalin, etc., but esp. Adderall, in America's drug culture. When I was a kid in the 90's, and a young teen in the first half of the 2000's, I heard news reports about coke, crack/crank, and meth, sure, but not Adderall - I've never touched crack or meth, only did coke about 5-6 times in my life (really a stupid drug, surprising it ever got as popular as it did), but I definitely played around with Adderall for a time, went through two short periods of idiotic abuse (one time did 600 mg over around half-a-week, another time of three instances of 150-200 mg over the period of a day, these instances spread out over a month and a half, in the course of which, collectively, including these short binge episodes, I did about 1200-1300 mg of Adderall overall - in retrospect, the relapse only occurred because I was smoking weed for a few months between the two binge periods, which were thankfully separated by a half-year, I logically knew what I was doing again was not smart, but my ego was pretty damn well over-inflated at the time, toking up at least 2 grams of prime hydro a day), which capped off around a year of using in definitely prescribed doses, just doing 20-60 mg every other day. And I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm human, but, just from an outward mind-set of observing my own life, I am pretty much the last person I would have thought who could have succumbed to Adderall, for a time, like I did. Perfect student in high school, great at extra-curricular stuff, still a great student in college despite my down-turns (the semester I did the 600 mg binge I got some B's and a C-, which was just crazy for me), just finishing up with college, now been sober off of everything, been doing very well, relatively, recently. Only thing's that kept me above the manic depressive line has been exercise - after the first binge I had, I gained 30-40 pounds of muscle (literally, yes), getting up to 215 pounds (also - wanted to add, just being at this pretty large weight probably helped me out tremendously when I binged again, which was still a stupid mistake on my part emotionally and psychologically if anything, even though I stopped exercising for around three weeks when I was doing Adderall again, if only because it wasn't like my body received the full brunt of the shit I was taking relative to my internal organs), and that helped me to continue smoking weed, no problems. It was a great time, honestly. But then I binged again, like I said, with three spiked occurrences over a month and a half. I was not doing it purely for recreational activities - I was reading for papers, writing these 20-pagers, stuff I didn't want to deal with. Ironic part of it is, after going through another semester, no substances, not even caffeine, at all, I've actually had an easier time with it all, which definitely reminds me how I was giving into my own illusions about not being able to do the work naturally. Anyway, yeah, for people with ADHD, I feel sad/bad for you guys, I couldn't imagine having that condition and being completely clean. Long story short, I'm just saying that if you're reading this and you think that you've fucked yourself up mentally/physically for the rest of your life, yeah, you might have. But just because of that, it doesn't mean you're brainless. It means you're a product of the environment you live in, and shit happens, for better or worse. I'm currently still recovering from my last run-in. Can't smoke weed anymore, as far as I'm concerned, just because I have overwhelming waves of guilt (just mental) and a little bit of anxiety/chest annoyances, nothing major though, and it just comes with trying to smoke, so, I mean, I guess, I'm pretty fucking lucky. I definitely, as far as I know, did not have any damage after my first binge, but I'm just going for the best this time around, this is my fucking life after all. Gained ten pounds again in the gym since I started up in there a month ago, other than relapsing in the first place, my biggest mistake would have been stopping my constant exercise routine of working out, something which I have been able to get back into, thankfully, but which has certainly been marked by hardship in just terms of dealing with putting on muscle again. Sorry, this post got a little longer than I expected. My end-advice, don't do amphetamines, just smoke weed, that's much more enjoyable. If that doesn't work out for you, and I'm supposing it wouldn't have since you're here, no, you are not a total dumb-ass for having done what you did, but, still, you have to survey your workable options from here on out. If I could have done it again, I would have just helped myself out after I knew I had a substance abuse problem post-first-binge and quit drugs completely. That would have saved a lot of doubt and life-questioning on my part. Other than that, post-binges or amphetamine use, either get yourself medical help/treatment if it seems like it's gotten that bad, e.g., you have circulation problems, definite chest pains, full out anxiety attacks, etc., or, if that stuff isn't happening and you just have a shitty attitude, or a score of other minor problems but which don't seriously impede you putting on muscle or which can actually be construed as pain (don't quote me though..), then, by all means, go and work out 4-5 times a week, put on muscle, boy or girl, and just never touch uppers of any kind for the rest of your life. And that will help. Live your life, fuck drugs...unless you just smoke weed (and when I say this, I'm talking about JUST smoking weed, you've never done anything else, nothing at all, unlike me, who went back to just smoking weed after I KNEW I had an issue with harder stuff - this can make you think that you can return to harder drugs, of any kind, which really isn't the case - things ain't gonna change for you in that respect, don't make my mistake there...really an easy mistake to have corrected on my part, trust me, I think about it every day), as a former pot-head, I personally don't think that that is a big deal UNLESS you get caught up with ANY harder drugs, of course, including amphetamines. Do yourself a favor in that case, and mind you...weed DOES cost money, so honestly, being frugal is beneficial to all of that too. Life's going to blow, but it doesn't have to erupt, like amphetamines can often lead to, even with those who feel they've gotten lucky post-high-amphetamine usage.

Two additional notes for anyone (else) out there interested about dealing with the side-effects from amphetamine addiction or withdrawal:
1) Age seems to be a huge contributing factor to how easy/fast you can bounce back from this stuff. I was a few months into being 21 when I got out of my first binge and it really was not too/that difficult - I did have to work my way out of it but it certainly wasn't that psychologically trying, just trying in terms of devoting myself to the task at hand. However, after my second binge/relapse, I was (and still am) 22, just six months older, and it was/has been much more difficult - I understand I was also basically subverting my normal system of dealing with getting out of drug problems by not working out for the first time in four years as well (I'd always worked out ever since I started doing drugs...which was 90-95% overall weed, including when I drank - I always considered alcohol a drug) so I know my empirical data is a little skewed, but nonetheless, from what I've picked up by reading a lot of posts/threads on this website, this age thing with post-amphetamine use definitely seems to be a common trope to be sure. If you're 20 or younger, i.e., a teenager, get the fuck out now, other than psychological bullshit, you'll likely come out Scott-free from any physical problems. If you're 20 or older don't even mess around with amphetamines point blank, it just isn't worth it plain and simple - take the bad grades, the awkward social situations, they are preferable to the consequences which you may/can endure from dealing with amphetamine withdrawal or mental/physical health scenarios.
2) Working out is easily, as far as I'm concerned, besides going out and getting medical treatment for serious problems (like I mentioned above - for real, if you feel like your chest is collapsing when you try to exercise or you have swelling of your feet or something, yeah, you might have already had a heart attack, that is VERY serious, and dude, what can I say, if you don't go out and get some medicine to help you out, you might get bit in the ass medically in a few months or years down the road pretty easily, we're all going to die, it's just about building yourself time and confidence regarding the end, however, sometimes you can't build that time by yourself, so just deal with it), the best way to deal with physical side-effects. However, emotionally and psychologically, you often cannot do this (quitting the abusive, or otherwise, amphetamine demons) by yourself. From experience, it seems like most of the people who ACTUALLY get deep into Adderall or any type of hard drugs usually insulate themselves from loving relationships. But, even besides a loving girl or boy-friend, you really need your family as your rock. If I had come back to live with my family after my first binge and recovery, even if I had kept smoking weed (but whatever, seriously, forget about how I keep on mentioning weed, if it hasn't been apparent, I do just miss smoking weed, my life revolved around the toke), I'm pretty sure, 85+%, that I wouldn't have dared to relapse on the amphetamines again. Having stayed with them [my family] after my second relapse, I mean, shit, you just realize how important your family is to you and your life. Honestly, I had a huge cathartic experience looking at some baby pictures of myself from back in the day. Egotistical, no doubt. Helpful in getting me to look at my life objectively, hell yeah. Spend time with the parental units. Get back into the familial mix. That helps some. Ultimately, though, it's all about you, what you do, how you feel about what you do and what you have done, we're all idiosyncratic, I don't pretend to have any answers, so it is what it is.

Classic amp post!

 

[Khorb321]

i can't thank you enough for this comment. It's ridiculous how much it spoke right to me. I've been abusing adderall on and off for years and have been worse than ever the last few months. My short term memory is shot to the point where I barely get through work each day. I feel like a person with Alzheimer's disease. every day is a fight to appear normal despite the fact that I regularly forget things. Because I lied to myself and others about my need for this medication for so long, I Began to develope the delusion that using more of it would fix my issues. Vicious cycle happening. Tonight I flushed the rest of the script that I manipulated a psychiatrist into prescribing me down the toilet. Reading through these posts can be kind of scary and discouraging for someone who is worried they might have permanently damaged their brain. But yours kind of snapped me out of it and gave me a lot of hope. I play multiple instruments, write songs, and have recorded two of my own albums. Music is my favorite thing in the world and drugs have been separating me from it for a while. I have a lot to be thankful for in my life and I'm not going to throw any more of it away. Thanks again

 

[CruelBri]

i have been on adderall/amp my whole life... literally from age 6 up till 25


Back when younger, the doctors over prescribed my meds.... giving me basically 30 mg to take as a young kid... that shit was way to much, id be up every night until 4 am and then fall asleep for an hour and wake up for school... it sucked.... once i reached age 14 i started messing around with the dosage on my own...

at age 25 i am taking only 15mg a day, it worked perfectly...


the best thing with amps is to NOT over do it. use as little as possible and to take 2-3 days off every month or so,


I take saturdays and sundays off and although i feel like i am drained of energy, i can still do stuff...


then by monday my tolerance is back down again...

If i took 15 mg everyday with no days off for like 2 weeks straight, i wouldnt feel the effects as much since tolerance.

 

[Treefa]

I have to say, I use, often combinations of various ADHD medications, mostly Adderall & Ritalin......before I continue, I DO have ADD/HD which was diagnosed, treated with Adderall Rx'd for 3-4 years, until I needed Rx'd pain-meds and forewent my Adderall Rx to obtain a higher dose of that.

I did completely abstain for awhile do to the absence of the need. I've experienced a resurgence of ADD symptoms this year though, and have been self-medicating with Adderal & Ritalin since February, 50-100mg/day 1:3 Ratio usually, and in all my time of Amphetamines I have never gotten past stage 2, which pretty much sounds like therapeutic Amphetamine use to me.

I also use Opioids simultaneously, and that's the only time I get any type of 'reinforcing effects', as it were.

I have had friends in the past who abused amphetamines recreationally, specifically Methamphetamine, and at one time a good friend was so fried it was like watching intervention FFS!
He was using IDK how much meth every day, and plenty of benzos at night. No telling what kinds of other dope etc...

He eventually got onto Subs for his recreational opoid problem, and I have to say he's doing pretty freaking good now.....he may never regain all his brain cells(and bupe doesn't help), but he's not Gary Busy anymore.
Most importantly though, he's a decent guy who wanted to do right, or at least wanted to stop doing wrong.....he was once in bad shape for a long while, so burnt out.

But now he's back to himself, and while I never worry about anybody because of how selfish I am(not entirely true, but mostly!), for a while there I really thought I'd lost a good friend, or inevitably would quite soon.

I guess I just wrote all this to say; Life is what you make it.....God gave us good drugs, just like he gave us good enough sense to know when "enough is enough"...so don't ignore yourself folks, if you get past stage 2 or 3 or whatever, get help. Help yourself if you wish, if not, theres plenty of people there whose JOB it IS to help people.
So don't wait till it's too late, and you're 1,000,000,000,000 brain-cells short!

That is all.
Good night..and good luck.

 

[Creasey]

Not sure what stage I'm in as I didn't bother to read any further than the first paragraph. I read all the comments, though, because I like surveying the general audience. I would imagine that I'm in one of the stages that would be characterized as very bad - or, the wired on 150-200mg adderall daily stage. I'm 30 years old now. Reflecting on the very beginning, it all started my sophomore year at a very prestigious university (not trying to brag). Went to see the infamously known "study doc" on campus, filled out a one page questionnaire, and left 10 minutes later with two scripts (30 mg XR 2xdaily and 1 20mg as needed). Had literally never been prescribed or taken amps recreationally before that. Pretty much abused dosages immediately. Handled it for a year until I was hospitalized for an esophageal perforation that could only have been caused by crushing and blowing too many oranges in the library. Went without them for a couple months after that. Not surprisingly, went back to study doc and was refilled instantly. Abused addies for the entire remainder of my undergraduate years, but, shockingly, was able to graduate in top 100 of my class. Got a good job after that, but was still totally dependent on the drug. I doctor shopped until I was able to find a prescriber who seemingly did not give a fuck about dosage recommendations - 80mg daily turned into 90 a few months later, turned into 100, etc. Now I have a script for 120mg a day, my circadian rhythm is nonexistent, and everyday I take more than I should. My nerves are shot, my body aches, and I'm patently fucked. We'll see how the story ends, I guess, but have a pretty good idea of the inevitable, and I'm sure you do too. Fuck, man, little did I know that a simple visit to the school
Doc 10 years ago would lead me here.

 

[Creasey]

Yup, I'm definitely in stage 5

 

[JK25]

Fuck me, after 6 rehabs and numerous psychiatric hospital admissions over the years, this is by far the best and most informative breakdown of what amphetamines do and the causation of prolonged use. Thank God I only ever as far to nearly reach stage 7 with amphetamine psychosis as my main symptom.

 

[JK25]

I would like to, create a reference point (not only for addicts, but also future addicts and spectators as well) for the process of amphetamine addiction developing in the mind - mainly by noting what effects dwindle at what phases, and what effects become prominent at what stages. This is all mostly through self-experience although I am also researching a bit on the topic.

Amphetamine (and its derivatives) are unique from most other drugs. The effects of amphetamine work in discrete stages, and some effects may continue while other effects wear off.

A user develops tolerance to amphetamine in different ways than he would develop tolerance to say, opiates or benzos. Amphetamine tolerance is not caused by an increase of corresponding receptors, but instead it is mainly caused by depletion of the neurotransmitters it releases (dopamine, norepinephrine, and some serotonin) and also because amphetamine is neurotoxic (not only will the amphetamine molecule itself cause neuron damage, but the oxidation resulting from the metabolism of neurotransmitters reaches abnormally high levels and can kill neurons. Also, an increased body temperature can increase the potential for neuron death.) Amphetamine tolerance can also indirectly be the product of lack of sleep and poor nutrition. Amphetamine tolerance has many more factors which play in to it than traditional drugs. Some users find that with responsible usage, they can delay amphetamine tolerance indefinitely. Other users find that tolerance can be accumulated rapidly from just one period of binge usage.

The effects of amphetamine do not remain constant either; the effects transform into different types of effects over time. Some effects disappear, and sometimes new effects set in. Because of this, prolonged amphetamine use seems like it can be illustrated as working in phases or stages.

Note: The Cause of transitioning to further stages (past the first 2) is usually caused by factors such as Lack of sleep, Malnutrtion, Sedentary Lifestyle, or simply because the dose is too large.

Stage 1 of Amphetamine Use - During this stage, amphetamine will be at its hedonic peak; the pleasure of taking amphetamine will not get any higher from this point on. The most notable feelings are a "lovey" feeling, powerful euphoria, increased motivation, deep philosophical thinking, strong feelings of "lust", etc.

Length of phase: 1-3 days with binge usage; 5-10 days with daily usage; About 5-15 uses total if used sparingly with atleast several days inbetween doses.

Characteristic Effects of this Stage:
- Powerful euphoria
- Empathy and socialability
- Overwhelming amount of increased motivation

Stage 2 of Amphetamine Use - During this stage, the "lovey" and empathetic feelings of amphetamine quickly fade, although the "pleasurable" feelings of euphoria and increased motivation are still present. The decrease in empathetic feelings is likely responsible from a depletion of serotonergic vesicles. Most users note that it is impossible to transition back to "Stage 1" at this point, no matter how long of a break a person takes from amphetamine. This suggests that a permanent tolerance develops for the empathetic effects of the drug - whether this occurs from a psychological acclimation to the effects, or from physiological reasons, I don't know. This is the stage which doctors aim for when prescribing amphetamine for medicinal use with ADD and ADHD. This stage can be prolonged for quite some time (and if the dose is low enough, some medical professionals say that this phase can be prolonged indefinitely) this is assuming of course that the user continuously maintains an adequate amount of high quality sleep (7+ hours a night), proper nutrition, and a non-sedentary lifestyle.

Length of Stage: 1-7 days with binge usage (note that binge usage is defined by immediately taking another dose once the effects of one dose wear off or begin to wear off, interrupting sleep in the process). 2 Weeks to 6+ Months if used daily (and maintaining a healthy lifestyle). Indefinitely if used sparingly (with 3-5+ days inbetween uses).

Characteristic Effects of this Stage:
- Increased Motivation
- Slight Euphoria

Stage 3 of Amphetamine Use, the "Tool" phase - At this point, most if not all empathetic effects of usage have diminished. This point is characterized by the fact that amphetamine becomes the sole motivator for tasks, hence the nickname "The Tool Phase" because amphetamine is now used as a Tool for accomplishment. The negative physiological effects (the "body load") become more prominent.

Length of Stage: At this point, it is hard to define the length it will take to transition from one stage to the next. Some users will find that if they take breaks from their usage or just lower their dose, they can go backwards to earlier stages. Some binge users may even rapidly progress through the stages, possibly even skipping to the final ones or developing psychosis.

Characteristic Effects of this stage:
- Period of 'positive effects' and period of 'negative effects' from taking a dose begin to merge. (usually, if negative effects are present they only follow after the positive effects wear off)
- The user needs amphetamine to stay at/above a baseline level of motivation, and when amphetamine is not in effect the user is below a baseline level of motivation.
-In order for a task to be done effeciently, the user finds that they need to be on amphetamine.
- The level of euphoria decreases to a point where it is no more significant than the level of euphoria which most people get from daily life without amphetamine.

Stage 4 of Amphetamine Use, "The Decline" - The efficiency of amphetamine as a "Tool" begins to drop significantly, and this stage is characterized by the "comedown" (the period of negative effects after the drug begins to wear off) becoming much stronger. The "comedown" may even begin to merge in with the period of positive effects. At this point, the body load may begin to become painful.

Characteristic Effects of this Stage:
- Painful body load (Muscle Pain, High Blood Pressure, Inadequate Circulation, Dehydration, Malnutrition, deterioration of the skin and other tissues, etc).
- Depression
- Severe Anxiety


Stage 5 of Amphetamine Use, The Procrastination - This Stage may or may not be experienced by amphetamine users. In this stage, the positive effects of amphetamine are almost absent if not completely gone, and the "coming up" of a dose of amphetamine is subsequently followed by an immediate barrage of negative effects (both physiological and psychological). The reason this phase is called "The Procrastination" is because the user forgets how unbearable the negative sensations are (due to amphetamine compromising the brain's ability to efficiently make memories, especially goal-orientated memories); by the next day, even though the user may have told himself to not take amphetamine, he takes amphetamine again anyways (due to the brain not being able to make a goal-orientated memory, the brain was unable to produce counter-motivation to stop the user from taking more amphetamine the next day). This might possibly be the most psychologically painful and strenuous phase for the amphetamine user, since he is unable to figure out why he keeps taking amphetamine even though he clearly knows it only causes him pain.

Characteristic Effects:
- Repeatedly taking amphetamine despite knowledge that it no longer gives the desired effects, and only causes negative effects.

Stage 6 of Amphetamine Use, Irritability and Pessimism - This phase is characterized by extreme irritability. The user begins forgetting the drug is responsible for his negative feelings, and begins to blame things in the environment around them instead. The user begins to think that other people are responsible for how poorly he/she feels. The user might show hostility, or social withdrawal. The user also begins to develop an extremely pessimistic attitude towards life.

Characteristic Effects of this Stage:
- Acute Depression
- Severe Anxiety
- Irritability, even when the drug is out of the user's system
- Psychosis
- Inability to Sleep
- Severe Restlessness
- lack of willpower
- Inability to find "the right choice of words"
- Obsessive Thinking

Stage 7 of Amphetamine use, Nihilism and Dissociation - During this phase, incidences of psychosis begin to emerge (if they haven't already) even if the drug user has been maintaining an adequate amount of sleep. The user usually becomes nihilistic, thinking that nothing in life matters or has meaning. Some users may even become solipsistic, which means they think that they are the only things which are real in the world. Solipsism is often accompanied by paranoia, or thinking that others only have the intention of harming the solipsistic individual. If the user had obtained any philosophical or metacognitive methods of thinking during the earlier stages of amphetamine use, those same metacognitive methods begin to eat away at the person's psyche. They feel as if they are helpless to do anything besides sit back and watch their mind become unravelled. Even if the user realizes that his irritable attitude towards other people isn't how he truly feels, he is unable to manage his irritability (most likely due to a complete diminishment of serotonin, as well as the brain's ability to make memories being compromised). The individual's ego may begin to deconstruct itself, and the user may have a feeling that they completely lack any willpower to do anything. This stage is also accompanied by a large amount of confusion.

Characteristic Effects of this stage:
- Confusion
- Paranoia
- Unbearable Depression and Anxiety
- Delusions
- Increased Incidences of Psychosis
- Increasingly Painful Body Load
- Lack of willpower
- Cognition become confusing and incoherent. Users often claim things like their mind is "too loud", "jumping to false conclusions", or "doesn't make sense" and the user feels helpless to control this.
- Panic Attacks become very prominent
- Feelings of Deja Vu
- If weight loss was experienced in beginning stages, it may come to a hault or even reverse into weight gain
- Inability to experience pleasure
- Akathisia
- Feelings that an individual no longer has "free will"
- Difficult to form coherent sentences and speak properly. Similar to "Clanging" or "Word Salad" experienced in schizophrenics.

Stage 7b "Letting Go / Giving Up" - This stage is not always experienced, but in some instances after the user has experienced an excruciating and unbearable amount of anxiety and mental stress, he may experience a period of "Letting Go" in which the brain gives up on constructing/maintaining its deluded psychological structures. The negative effects of the drug temporarily fade, and the user has a "moment of peace". This temporary phase usually only lasts several hours (if not less) before the user returns to phase 7. Since the brain during this phase has completely abandoned any attempts to make goal orientated behaviour, the user may find it difficult (or simply not want to) to take care of themselves. However, during this phase, the user will find that they will actually be able to get to sleep, and they should take advantage of this temporary somnia to get sleep. I do not know what neurological mechanisms are responsible for this phase; it is almost as if it is the brain's last resort - to enter a careless and stressless stupor. Perhaps the brain releases endorphins in response to the unbearable anxiety?

Characteristic Effects:
- Stupor
- Irresponsiveness
- Carelessness
- Ironically, if effects of "word salad" or "clanging" were experienced in stage 7, they are no longer as present in stage 7b.

Stage 8, "The Stupor", Brain Damage - In this stage, amphetamine no longer gives effects, and the brain's desire for taking amphetamine (even if taking it has become a habit) begins to drop. As long as amphetamine use continues, the user makes no progress towards recovery of any sort. The individual is unresponsive and disconnected. Amphetamine has a tendency to make the user put too much effort into anything/everything, and this gives the brain not a single moment of psychological "rest" (where the individual doesn't think deeply). However, during this phase, it is quite the opposite - the individual's mind is in a prolonged state of resting and won't even follow through with the very act of thinking if the thought takes too much effort to think. During this phase, the user may have a steep decline in intelligence.

Characteristic Effects:
- Prolonged episodes of stupor and carelessness
- Lethargy
- Diminished Intelligence and mental efficiency
- Irreversible Psychological Damage
- Possible brain damage
- The individual may develop a "permanent stuttering" which persists even after amphetamine has long since been ceased.
- In a similar way that the stuttering develops, an individual may develop a possible permanent difficulty talking, using correct grammar and sentence structure, or expressing thoughts to others. In severe cases, this may even resemble a schizophrenic's clanging or word salad.
- Essentially, the mind at this point is irreversibly compromised. The user's personality might have changed permanently. The individual may be much more easily irritated for the rest of his/her life. Cognitive functioning will never work the same as it used to. Although the user may make improvements and greatly recover, it will almost always seem like something "isn't right" in the mind, or that something is "missing". Individuals will still be able to lead fulfilling lives, and some may make amazing recoveries where they feel normal again like they did before they ever began using. Unfortunately, in severe cases, the individual may never be the same again.

If there were a stage 9 I would be there now.

 

[spikeycloud]

This thread really opens your eyes. I enjoyed amphetamines as most of you guys do. In the beginning I was also thinking it was a miracle drug but the more often I used the bigger the negatives become and the smaller the positives. I only used fluor amphetamines but I guess they have the same damaging effects.

I did not use abuse it that much… at max 1-2 times a month with maybe 1 night no sleep. I guess I’m unlucky I think I might have reached stage 6-7 and I especially suffer from this ->

Cognition become confusing and incoherent. Users often claim things like their mind is "too loud", "jumping to false conclusions", or "doesn't make sense" and the user feels helpless to control this.

Feelings that an individual no longer has "free will"

At bad days my mind reflect every neutral situation in a negative conclusion every 5 second or so.

What surprises me a bit that nobody here mentioned any sexual side effects. I have extreme PE and most of my penis feels numb (except the top) and orgasms are barely pleasurable - I’m pretty sure it has been caused by masturbating on it. Anyone else has this too?

 

[HCL]

Interesting bit about the first two phases.

I take amphetamine by prescription, and after two years, I'm still really sensitive to it. I can wake up, take 10 mg of dex (or even Adderall), and have it last all day.

But the euphoria has diminished. First few times I took it, I felt like I could do anything. Now I still get energy and focus, but not this overwhelming surge of power. If I abstain for two or three days, I'll feel the next dose very obviously, but still nothing like before.

I think when you do something enough times it stops being as exciting, even if you remove tolerance. The mystique is gone.

 

[Doctorno]

As i know for the treatment in my country, usually they used Benzodiazepines for the treatments and Nimetazepam helped people alot for the cure when the with drawl process happening. Because Nimetazepam helped meth user to tamper their craved of meth.

 

[Mr Dobalina]

How come on meth I can think of witty comebacks & think of stuff to say whereas without meth I'm basically brain dead?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Maybe you have a bit of ADD? Not trying to diagnose you over the internet, but I've known more than one person who used to love how chill and intellectual methamp made them only to discover as adults they had some kind of attention deficit thing going on and ended up prescribed amphetamines legally.

 

[Mr Dobalina]

Yeah maybe. I doubt it though. Aren't you supposed to be hyper if you have ADD?

 

[Jabberwocky]

That is ADHD. ADD is without the hyperactivity. Or so the names and my limited understanding of the subject would suggest.

 

[Severino]

Anyone agree with me, amphetamine usage and cessation issues people have are 80%+ social/society issues. Like, it's not because of the drug, it's because of societies brain washing that makes the user feel isolated, alone, afraid to ask for help, afraid to just be calm and not worry about it. afraid to enjoy a very helpful antidepressant and mood lifter

 

[Severino]

This whole thread is nonsense. Been using amphetamines for years and still have pleasurable effects and get calmed down. Just shows the power of the mind though, and how you can re-wire your neurological chemistry just with belief, even with a drug in your system, the belief can be more powerful.

100% Truth. It's like, people are perfectly fine with SSRI's and DNRI's and Neruoleptics completely FUCKING THEIR SHIT UP. But when the word 'amphetamine' is involved, "I'm dependent, this drug is just constantly worth fussing over". in reality, social stigma is what their battling

 

[Severino]

I would like to, create a reference point (not only for addicts, but also future addicts and spectators as well) for the process of amphetamine addiction developing in the mind - mainly by noting what effects dwindle at what phases, and what effects become prominent at what stages. This is all mostly through self-experience although I am also researching a bit on the topic.

Amphetamine (and its derivatives) are unique from most other drugs. The effects of amphetamine work in discrete stages, and some effects may continue while other effects wear off.

A user develops tolerance to amphetamine in different ways than he would develop tolerance to say, opiates or benzos. Amphetamine tolerance is not caused by an increase of corresponding receptors, but instead it is mainly caused by depletion of the neurotransmitters it releases (dopamine, norepinephrine, and some serotonin) and also because amphetamine is neurotoxic (not only will the amphetamine molecule itself cause neuron damage, but the oxidation resulting from the metabolism of neurotransmitters reaches abnormally high levels and can kill neurons. Also, an increased body temperature can increase the potential for neuron death.) Amphetamine tolerance can also indirectly be the product of lack of sleep and poor nutrition. Amphetamine tolerance has many more factors which play in to it than traditional drugs. Some users find that with responsible usage, they can delay amphetamine tolerance indefinitely. Other users find that tolerance can be accumulated rapidly from just one period of binge usage.

The effects of amphetamine do not remain constant either; the effects transform into different types of effects over time. Some effects disappear, and sometimes new effects set in. Because of this, prolonged amphetamine use seems like it can be illustrated as working in phases or stages.

Note: The Cause of transitioning to further stages (past the first 2) is usually caused by factors such as Lack of sleep, Malnutrtion, Sedentary Lifestyle, or simply because the dose is too large.

Stage 1 of Amphetamine Use - During this stage, amphetamine will be at its hedonic peak; the pleasure of taking amphetamine will not get any higher from this point on. The most notable feelings are a "lovey" feeling, powerful euphoria, increased motivation, deep philosophical thinking, strong feelings of "lust", etc.

Length of phase: 1-3 days with binge usage; 5-10 days with daily usage; About 5-15 uses total if used sparingly with atleast several days inbetween doses.

Characteristic Effects of this Stage:
- Powerful euphoria
- Empathy and socialability
- Overwhelming amount of increased motivation

Stage 2 of Amphetamine Use - During this stage, the "lovey" and empathetic feelings of amphetamine quickly fade, although the "pleasurable" feelings of euphoria and increased motivation are still present. The decrease in empathetic feelings is likely responsible from a depletion of serotonergic vesicles. Most users note that it is impossible to transition back to "Stage 1" at this point, no matter how long of a break a person takes from amphetamine. This suggests that a permanent tolerance develops for the empathetic effects of the drug - whether this occurs from a psychological acclimation to the effects, or from physiological reasons, I don't know. This is the stage which doctors aim for when prescribing amphetamine for medicinal use with ADD and ADHD. This stage can be prolonged for quite some time (and if the dose is low enough, some medical professionals say that this phase can be prolonged indefinitely) this is assuming of course that the user continuously maintains an adequate amount of high quality sleep (7+ hours a night), proper nutrition, and a non-sedentary lifestyle.

Length of Stage: 1-7 days with binge usage (note that binge usage is defined by immediately taking another dose once the effects of one dose wear off or begin to wear off, interrupting sleep in the process). 2 Weeks to 6+ Months if used daily (and maintaining a healthy lifestyle). Indefinitely if used sparingly (with 3-5+ days inbetween uses).

Characteristic Effects of this Stage:
- Increased Motivation
- Slight Euphoria

Stage 3 of Amphetamine Use, the "Tool" phase - At this point, most if not all empathetic effects of usage have diminished. This point is characterized by the fact that amphetamine becomes the sole motivator for tasks, hence the nickname "The Tool Phase" because amphetamine is now used as a Tool for accomplishment. The negative physiological effects (the "body load") become more prominent.

Length of Stage: At this point, it is hard to define the length it will take to transition from one stage to the next. Some users will find that if they take breaks from their usage or just lower their dose, they can go backwards to earlier stages. Some binge users may even rapidly progress through the stages, possibly even skipping to the final ones or developing psychosis.

Characteristic Effects of this stage:
- Period of 'positive effects' and period of 'negative effects' from taking a dose begin to merge. (usually, if negative effects are present they only follow after the positive effects wear off)
- The user needs amphetamine to stay at/above a baseline level of motivation, and when amphetamine is not in effect the user is below a baseline level of motivation.
-In order for a task to be done effeciently, the user finds that they need to be on amphetamine.
- The level of euphoria decreases to a point where it is no more significant than the level of euphoria which most people get from daily life without amphetamine.

Stage 4 of Amphetamine Use, "The Decline" - The efficiency of amphetamine as a "Tool" begins to drop significantly, and this stage is characterized by the "comedown" (the period of negative effects after the drug begins to wear off) becoming much stronger. The "comedown" may even begin to merge in with the period of positive effects. At this point, the body load may begin to become painful.

Characteristic Effects of this Stage:
- Painful body load (Muscle Pain, High Blood Pressure, Inadequate Circulation, Dehydration, Malnutrition, deterioration of the skin and other tissues, etc).
- Depression
- Severe Anxiety


Stage 5 of Amphetamine Use, The Procrastination - This Stage may or may not be experienced by amphetamine users. In this stage, the positive effects of amphetamine are almost absent if not completely gone, and the "coming up" of a dose of amphetamine is subsequently followed by an immediate barrage of negative effects (both physiological and psychological). The reason this phase is called "The Procrastination" is because the user forgets how unbearable the negative sensations are (due to amphetamine compromising the brain's ability to efficiently make memories, especially goal-orientated memories); by the next day, even though the user may have told himself to not take amphetamine, he takes amphetamine again anyways (due to the brain not being able to make a goal-orientated memory, the brain was unable to produce counter-motivation to stop the user from taking more amphetamine the next day). This might possibly be the most psychologically painful and strenuous phase for the amphetamine user, since he is unable to figure out why he keeps taking amphetamine even though he clearly knows it only causes him pain.

Characteristic Effects:
- Repeatedly taking amphetamine despite knowledge that it no longer gives the desired effects, and only causes negative effects.

Stage 6 of Amphetamine Use, Irritability and Pessimism - This phase is characterized by extreme irritability. The user begins forgetting the drug is responsible for his negative feelings, and begins to blame things in the environment around them instead. The user begins to think that other people are responsible for how poorly he/she feels. The user might show hostility, or social withdrawal. The user also begins to develop an extremely pessimistic attitude towards life.

Characteristic Effects of this Stage:
- Acute Depression
- Severe Anxiety
- Irritability, even when the drug is out of the user's system
- Psychosis
- Inability to Sleep
- Severe Restlessness
- lack of willpower
- Inability to find "the right choice of words"
- Obsessive Thinking

Stage 7 of Amphetamine use, Nihilism and Dissociation - During this phase, incidences of psychosis begin to emerge (if they haven't already) even if the drug user has been maintaining an adequate amount of sleep. The user usually becomes nihilistic, thinking that nothing in life matters or has meaning. Some users may even become solipsistic, which means they think that they are the only things which are real in the world. Solipsism is often accompanied by paranoia, or thinking that others only have the intention of harming the solipsistic individual. If the user had obtained any philosophical or metacognitive methods of thinking during the earlier stages of amphetamine use, those same metacognitive methods begin to eat away at the person's psyche. They feel as if they are helpless to do anything besides sit back and watch their mind become unravelled. Even if the user realizes that his irritable attitude towards other people isn't how he truly feels, he is unable to manage his irritability (most likely due to a complete diminishment of serotonin, as well as the brain's ability to make memories being compromised). The individual's ego may begin to deconstruct itself, and the user may have a feeling that they completely lack any willpower to do anything. This stage is also accompanied by a large amount of confusion.

Characteristic Effects of this stage:
- Confusion
- Paranoia
- Unbearable Depression and Anxiety
- Delusions
- Increased Incidences of Psychosis
- Increasingly Painful Body Load
- Lack of willpower
- Cognition become confusing and incoherent. Users often claim things like their mind is "too loud", "jumping to false conclusions", or "doesn't make sense" and the user feels helpless to control this.
- Panic Attacks become very prominent
- Feelings of Deja Vu
- If weight loss was experienced in beginning stages, it may come to a hault or even reverse into weight gain
- Inability to experience pleasure
- Akathisia
- Feelings that an individual no longer has "free will"
- Difficult to form coherent sentences and speak properly. Similar to "Clanging" or "Word Salad" experienced in schizophrenics.

Stage 7b "Letting Go / Giving Up" - This stage is not always experienced, but in some instances after the user has experienced an excruciating and unbearable amount of anxiety and mental stress, he may experience a period of "Letting Go" in which the brain gives up on constructing/maintaining its deluded psychological structures. The negative effects of the drug temporarily fade, and the user has a "moment of peace". This temporary phase usually only lasts several hours (if not less) before the user returns to phase 7. Since the brain during this phase has completely abandoned any attempts to make goal orientated behaviour, the user may find it difficult (or simply not want to) to take care of themselves. However, during this phase, the user will find that they will actually be able to get to sleep, and they should take advantage of this temporary somnia to get sleep. I do not know what neurological mechanisms are responsible for this phase; it is almost as if it is the brain's last resort - to enter a careless and stressless stupor. Perhaps the brain releases endorphins in response to the unbearable anxiety?

Characteristic Effects:
- Stupor
- Irresponsiveness
- Carelessness
- Ironically, if effects of "word salad" or "clanging" were experienced in stage 7, they are no longer as present in stage 7b.

Stage 8, "The Stupor", Brain Damage - In this stage, amphetamine no longer gives effects, and the brain's desire for taking amphetamine (even if taking it has become a habit) begins to drop. As long as amphetamine use continues, the user makes no progress towards recovery of any sort. The individual is unresponsive and disconnected. Amphetamine has a tendency to make the user put too much effort into anything/everything, and this gives the brain not a single moment of psychological "rest" (where the individual doesn't think deeply). However, during this phase, it is quite the opposite - the individual's mind is in a prolonged state of resting and won't even follow through with the very act of thinking if the thought takes too much effort to think. During this phase, the user may have a steep decline in intelligence.

Characteristic Effects:
- Prolonged episodes of stupor and carelessness
- Lethargy
- Diminished Intelligence and mental efficiency
- Irreversible Psychological Damage
- Possible brain damage
- The individual may develop a "permanent stuttering" which persists even after amphetamine has long since been ceased.
- In a similar way that the stuttering develops, an individual may develop a possible permanent difficulty talking, using correct grammar and sentence structure, or expressing thoughts to others. In severe cases, this may even resemble a schizophrenic's clanging or word salad.
- Essentially, the mind at this point is irreversibly compromised. The user's personality might have changed permanently. The individual may be much more easily irritated for the rest of his/her life. Cognitive functioning will never work the same as it used to. Although the user may make improvements and greatly recover, it will almost always seem like something "isn't right" in the mind, or that something is "missing". Individuals will still be able to lead fulfilling lives, and some may make amazing recoveries where they feel normal again like they did before they ever began using. Unfortunately, in severe cases, the individual may never be the same again.

It's really disappointing this comes across as legit, and so many people read it. In reality, it just really has no merit. no scientific evidence or studies. no dosage info. no usage info. it's worthless. people needs to understand this.

You know what doe , like I totally fit stage 6,7, and 8 back TEN YEARS AGO when I was taking absolutely no drugs whatsoever. Hmmm how does one distinguish their natural self feelings from what they think is drug related. I know, they fuckin cant cause this is bull shit