Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

[searing tuna]

new here and saying hi or high

My 1st post here and unfortunately not a newbie to the drug scene. I've done it all from huffing Carbona to shooting dope and all that's in between. Started snorting dope when around 17y/o and you know the progression then skin popping and finally iv. Ludes were my absolute favorite drug of all time anytime. Now due to injury I got back w/ the opioids. Mainly 30mg Oxys and Percoceeder 10s. This to the extent that of course I was a pig and used them to quick,did the dr.shopping deal and found myself on Suboxone. The drug works as advertised as long as you do wait the recommended 30 hrs which is tough and then things mellow out. I followed the thread for a while and here in Jersey the Beckitt brand has been thrown out due to patent issues and most pharmacies do not carry it any more.The brand that I have is from Actavis same dosage ,white in color w/ a much milder orange taste than the original. It's not scored but easy to pop in half by hand and even in 1/8ths. I've found after leveling out and some minor weining if you keep occupied you can get through it. Hell the 1st time I did the methadone deal took my vacation doses and left the nest. On the way because the bottles were not refriged they spoiled and I dealt w/ it and by the time I made it half way dope was a distant memory.

 

[kapua]

Thanks Adder for your advice.
From what I've heard from my therapist, the Subs Dr is notorious for over prescribing. My therapist suggested I be firm in what I want, and not allow him to give me 32mgs Subs, when all I really need is 2mg.

As it is I feel no effect from the Methadone, I take it simply to keep the w/ds away. I only dose in the morning so waiting 30-36 hours before taking the Subs "shouldn't" be too hard.
I hope the Dr calls me back today, this waiting thing is really making me crazy.
Aloha

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

I was shooting like 4mg a day for a year and tappered to like 1mg snorted then took Imodium and barely felt any wds

But now I'm on methadone wishing I stayed on suboxone

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I was shooting like 4mg a day for a year and tappered to like 1mg snorted then took Imodium and barely felt any wds

But now I'm on methadone wishing I stayed on suboxone

I have a friend in this situation.

What's your plan? Are you going to get off methadone, stay on it, or switch back to suboxone?

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

Ima figure out what my insurance can dew then make a choice

 

[Eveleivibe]

Does it not cap at 1000 no more?

I feel better on 8mg but will soon be at 6mg when they reduce me in a few or so.

Evey

 

[kapua]

I'm going to see the Subs Dr tomorrow at 2 PM. I took my "last" methadone this morning.
I have to take a 2 hour bus ride and walk almost 2 miles to get to the Dr's office.

Does anyone have any tips to help me get by in the morning? I usually dose once a day and I'm pretty good still when I wake up but I know (from past experience) that I'm going to feel like crap, probably as soon as I get on the bus. I have Klonopin and Xanax, and I think I have some Immodium somewhere. Will taking any (or all) of those effect the first Sub dose? I was also contemplating taking 5mg of Methadone before going to bed, or 1/2 an Oxy, but that would break into the 30-36 hour window from my last opiate dose.

And is it possible to ask for Subutex and not Suboxone, since I have no history of IV drug use? I think the Dr will give me Subutex in the office and will send me home with a script for suboxone. My therapist suggested that I ask to be started at 8mg and then work down, rather than starting at 2mg and ask for more if 2mg isn't working.

I am so afraid of getting sick before I get to the Dr. I am going to have my little girl with me and if I'm sick it's just going to suck.
I know many people have been in my exact situation right now. I'd love to think I'm unique and special, lol, but I'm just an addict trying to finally get clean.
I've detoxed from alcohol a few times, but always under a doctor's care (except for a that time I took librium for a week and slept the entire time).

Any tips and support would be greatly appreciated. Much aloha to you all xx

 

[burn out]

kapua, here is the thing about suboxone induction. You want to wait until you are at least in moderate withdrawal. Methadone is the worst drug to try to switch to subs from, because of the long half life. I have read of people going into precipitated WD days after their last methadone dose, even though they were in WD when they took the sub. Have you read the threads regarding switching from methadone to subs? I have never made that transition, so I cant help you there, but what I can tell you is that the 30 hour wait time is just a suggestion. What matters is not the time since you last dose of opiate, but the amount of opiate left on your receptors.

So for example, if youre a heroin addict and one night you shoot massive amounts of heroin, and then take a sub 24 or even 30 hrs later, you could go into precipitated withdrawals quite easily. On the other hand, if you were in full WD and then shoot a micro-dose of heroin, you could be ok to take sub as little as two hours later. I myself have done the latter, I was withdrawing from heroin, did just a tiny bit to make myself feel a little better, than a few hours later was back in bad withdrawals and took sub without a problem. So you see, its the amount of opiates left on your receptors that determines when you can take suboxone, not the time since you last dosed. This is a problem for methadone addicts, because they often can begin to feel WD symptoms, well before enough methadone has left their receptors in order to make room for the suboxone. One way you could get around this would be to switch to oxy or heroin or hydrocodone (any short acting opiate) for a few days before going on sub, that way the methadone will have already cleared your system.

 

[kapua]

kapua, here is the thing about suboxone induction. You want to wait until you are at least in moderate withdrawal. Methadone is the worst drug to try to switch to subs from, because of the long half life. I have read of people going into precipitated WD days after their last methadone dose, even though they were in WD when they took the sub. Have you read the threads regarding switching from methadone to subs? I have never made that transition, so I cant help you there, but what I can tell you is that the 30 hour wait time is just a suggestion. What matters is not the time since you last dose of opiate, but the amount of opiate left on your receptors.

So for example, if youre a heroin addict and one night you shoot massive amounts of heroin, and then take a sub 24 or even 30 hrs later, you could go into precipitated withdrawals quite easily. On the other hand, if you were in full WD and then shoot a micro-dose of heroin, you could be ok to take sub as little as two hours later. I myself have done the latter, I was withdrawing from heroin, did just a tiny bit to make myself feel a little better, than a few hours later was back in bad withdrawals and took sub without a problem. So you see, its the amount of opiates left on your receptors that determines when you can take suboxone, not the time since you last dosed. This is a problem for methadone addicts, because they often can begin to feel WD symptoms, well before enough methadone has left their receptors in order to make room for the suboxone. One way you could get around this would be to switch to oxy or heroin or hydrocodone (any short acting opiate) for a few days before going on sub, that way the methadone will have already cleared your system.

Thanks for this, Burn Out. Thanks for explaining that even though I'll probably feel like shit, I probably won't be in even moderate wds. And you really clarified that it's more about how much methadone is in my system, and not about the last time I used.
I know that it's kind of a crap shoot, cos I really don't know if I'll get relief right away, or if later I'll get sick. The Dr seems confident that he'll be able to help me, and I hope he can assuage my fears.

I'll go check the methadone -> bupe posts. Thanks so so much.

 

[searing tuna]

Again after reading through this thread I must say my Sub dr is very generous. I 1st went this guy really uptight detective like and only precribed 1 week of film Sub which in it'self is not that bad but it's a freaking hassel to open the package and then only the 1 weeks supply really irritated me besides he demanded me join a group not to mention the cost. I found another doc both a pain mgnmnt and also has a Sub licsense. She asked how much Oxys I did and told her I could run through 60 30mg pills in a few days. She says that's pretty hard core and prescribes 60 of 8mg+2mg Subs at 2 a day. Now, like I said had them so I knew 2 was way to much and out of the question so what happened I started hoarding a stash. Good thing in my case my body is failing me and I needed a rotator cuff surgery w/ my surgeon giving me 70 10mg percocettes post op and then another 70 during therapy. So I had the stash and find after stabilizing I can easily get by w/ a 1/2 pill and then a 1/4 pill. I never and mean never took 2 a day. Like I said previously the drug does what's advertised and does work. Some people have ill efects from the drug as do I .On occassion I get these pin point headaches and pretty severe constipation but w/ Senna that's history.I think the rap that Sub is harder to fully kick is a bit overstated and when I have w/d because of off/on use I almost go into convulsions and then the usuall horrible other w/d sysmtoms that have been talked about time after time. With Subs and good weining for me I don't get the worst of it and I can't be the only one. One other thing the Beckett/Ricker company is out and my Sub is made by A

 

[searing tuna]

Didn't finish the company that makes the Subs I take Actavis and w/ my medical plan it cost $70 for #60 pills. White w/ no score down the middle and has a # of 155 on the back and what looks like a D on the front. Is there any pix allowed on this site I wanted to show the bottle ?

 

[Zero_Mostly]

Buprenorphine Metabilization

Greetings. I'm new here and at the moment, time is of the essence. With this is mind, placing my question under the homeless thread should move things along quicker...

Question: Buprenorphine metabolizes, amongst others, to nor-buprenorphine. I've a basic knowledge of the internal methods through which this metabolization takes place.
Without, perhaps, a live test subject to metabolize for me, does there exist any method ex vitro (sic?) to obtain said metabolite? Would I need to obtain chemicals similar to those our livers use to make metabolites, and with a generous helping of science mixed in, hope to obtain the metabolites I'm seeking?

I'm sure more than a few of you will pick up on the subtext and understand why I ask; browsing a few of this sites threads to similar questions seemed to lack my line of questioning.

Dealkylization? Help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[adder]

I decreased my dose again to 2mg a day, but I've been so angry today that I took 1mg more, which obviously I didn't feel at all. As I think of it now, Suboxone has quite a shitload of side effects on me that either I didn't experience earlier or I was a total mess anyway and didn't attribute it all to Suboxone. I noticed that all this anger actually increases when I take more Suboxone. My mood also got terribly unstable, it's something that I've been noticing recently regardless of my Suboxone dose, but it's getting worse with a higher dose. I guess it's due to kappa antagonism, this is what makes buprenorphine feel a bit speedy and this must be what makes me anxious. And It's the worst at ~4mg because the partial mu agonism doesn't level it out. I hope I can soon get stable again at 2mg because as I'm becoming angrier and angrier, I'm thinking of morphine more and more. I honestly didn't suspect that I would ever get such strong mental cravings again.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I decreased my dose again to 2mg a day, but I've been so angry today that I took 1mg more, which obviously I didn't feel at all. As I think of it now, Suboxone has quite a shitload of side effects on me that either I didn't experience earlier or I was a total mess anyway and didn't attribute it all to Suboxone. I noticed that all this anger actually increases when I take more Suboxone. My mood also got terribly unstable, it's something that I've been noticing recently regardless of my Suboxone dose, but it's getting worse with a higher dose. I guess it's due to kappa antagonism, this is what makes buprenorphine feel a bit speedy and this must be what makes me anxious. And It's the worst at ~4mg because the partial mu agonism doesn't level it out. I hope I can soon get stable again at 2mg because as I'm becoming angrier and angrier, I'm thinking of morphine more and more. I honestly didn't suspect that I would ever get such strong mental cravings again.

best of luck man

 

[kapua]

So I saw the Subs Dr and the appointment went very well. He prescribed me 8mg suboxone. My prescription says I'm to take it twice a day, but the Dr said I can take it pretty much however I'd like.

I'm so relieved that I felt nothing bad when I took the first dose yesterday. I took some Immodium just in case my bowels decided to give way (which they did, last night, so I took more last night and this morning).

What suggestions do you have for dosing? I don't really feel anything on it. And the idea that I haven't had any Methadone since Tuesday morning baffles me. I used to take my husband's meds, then he caught me and started giving me my own stash, then he got mad and started hiding his meds (which I'd always find). He called a divorce lawyer and I finally realized I needed off this Methadone trip and here I am. If I am going to get my daughter I have to make sure my side of the street is squeaky clean. He doesn't know I'm on the Subs. He doesn't know I've started therapy. He has no idea that I plan on leaving him, and taking my daughter (all under whatever legal advice I'm looking for). Sorry for the backstory, but that's how I got here.

My Subs Dr wants me to try to be on it for 7 months. Obviously I have to get well and have a decent relapse prevention program. I think being on 8mgs 2x/day is a lot to take. I did take both doses today but I'm wondering if I should try to use maybe 4mgs 2x/day and see if I can keep the cravings at bay.

Should I just quit the Subs ASAP, like after a week, when all the built up Methadone leaves my body? Or am I still at risk of going into withdrawals if I lower the Subs dose? I should probably be asking the Dr these things but you guys have more practical experience.

I am simply overjoyed because I haven't had to take Methadone for 2 days already. It's like AA's "pink cloud" all over again.

 

[stayZOOTY]

Not really my place to judge but you stole your husband's meds and now he's the bad guy cause he hid them and then was mad when you searched for them and continued stealing them? Gotta love junkie logic, I've made some ridiculous decisions thanks to chemical vices but wow...

Anyway, Suboxone is an opioid just like methadone. You can't just switch to it from methadone and quit and not get sick. IMO I'd stick with it for 6 months, it's much less of a high than methadone and it'll get you more adjusted to truly sober living vs methadone, after that your doctor will taper you off.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Really looking forward to next Monday when I'm put onto 6 mg instead of 8 mg. i feel like Christmas is coming. Sad, I know lol

Evey

 

[The Doc.]

If you want you could do a quick taper once stabilised on sub's(which it sounds like you pretty much are) you could make the tapering of the sub's last about 2 weeks until your down to 0.5mgs or so then jump off and go through the Suboxone withdrawal which may be moderate to severe. Suboxone is an opiate with about the same symptoms of methadone when use is ceased so if you don't taper properly you could be putting yourself through more suffering than is nessesary. I wouldn't worry too much about the methadone leaving your body if your on sub's then the methadone is no longer on the receptors so now Suboxone is what you have to worry about you will have some methadone still lingering in your body but for the most part after a few weeks it should be gone.

Not trying to scare you but many patients report Suboxone withdrawal to be worse/more drawn out than methadone withdrawal. But everybody is different of course for me, I didn't find Suboxone withdrawal to be even as bad as heroin withdrawal since it is tapered much easier. You could try using 4mgs twice a day but depending on how much methadone you've done it may not hold you. Most heroin addicts only need about 4 mabye 8mgs but methadone addicts are a different story methadone is so powerful many can't even go from it to Suboxone and get stable so high doses may actually be nessesary in your case. But give it a shot anyways you don't want to raise your tolerance with the sub's that's the last thing you want actually.

 

[adder]

You're taking 16mg a day? Honestly, I thought you'd need 8mg a day in total at most. I was taking a similar dose of methadone as you before I switched to Suboxone, it's only that I was mostly clean for almost 2 months before I started taking Suboxone. At the very beginning I felt overwhelmed by buprenorphine at 4mg a day, I had terrible headaches, and I needed to lower it down to 2mg a day, but then I thought I needed more. The truth is I started taking more than 2mg because I wanted it to work stronger, I got used to 2mg a day, then I got used to 4mg a day, but I felt nothing, so I kept increasing it. I'm now sure that I could have made it at 2mg if I only got used to feeling sober. It's just my piece of advice that you try taking 4mg twice a day or 8mg once a day because some day you may want to quit it for good and tapering down isn't much easier than tapering down methadone, so the lower the dose, the better. I've been on Suboxone for 2 years and I'm really tired of it. Most of the side effects are typical opioid side effects, but you start noticing them more when you don't get any pleasurable effects from your drug. At first I was very happy to be off methadone, and I guess that's the right reaction, then I was happy to be off clonazepam, I definitely noticed myself changing and I had great strength to fight, I hardly ever thought about morphine. But I've just realised that if your life doesn't really change for good and you still live the same life you lived before getting addicted, then at some point it will prompt you to use again for the same reason it did before. My perspective has changed a lot, or actually it returned to my sober perspective, I grew up, but my life didn't change at all. I think it's better to think about it at the beginning than to be disappointed later. Sometimes I just think that my brain is fried in a way because of drugs and I can't feel as much emotions from simple every day stuff as non-addicts do. I started rediscovering the world and life, but once again I stopped and asked myself whether this is really what I was missing and whether it's really worth it.

 

[kapua]

Not really my place to judge but you stole your husband's meds and now he's the bad guy cause he hid them and then was mad when you searched for them and continued stealing them? Gotta love junkie logic, I've made some ridiculous decisions thanks to chemical vices but wow...

Anyway, Suboxone is an opioid just like methadone. You can't just switch to it from methadone and quit and not get sick. IMO I'd stick with it for 6 months, it's much less of a high than methadone and it'll get you more adjusted to truly sober living vs methadone, after that your doctor will taper you off.

I never said he was the bad guy. But it is a kick in the junk when you are given meds and being enabled and then are cut off without a word. So yeah "junkie logic" tells me to still take the meds, and I know he knows I took them. My husband sells all the oxy he his prescribed, I'm sure if I would have paid top dollar for the oxys he would have given them to me, but seeing as I do not get paid for my services as Mother and Housekeeper, I do not have money to pay for the oxys.
I'm sorry that my "ridiculous decisions thanks to chemical vices" were so low, even you wouldn't consider doing what I did. I have to wake up with myself every day, I don't need a stranger telling me I'm a POS too.

I do appreciate your advice for keeping on the Subs for some time to get used to "sober living."