Opioids The Big and Dandy Fentanyl Analogues Thread - Acetylfentanyl / Butyrfentanyl

[lolwhatzdrugs]

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Remember that published solubility data is for the solubility of the freebase in water unless you specificially specify e.g. fentanyl citrate. or look at logD.

At anything below pH 5 it's predicted that butyr fentanyl would be way more water soluble than the freebase in neutral/alkaline conditions anyway. (chemicalize.org)

i think i've seen people selling salts of b-f as well as the free base. the salts are presumably for IV/oral while the freebase is presumably for smoking (but would also work orally)

it's worth restating that these are fentanyl analogues and are not only highly likely to be illegal under analogue acts* but they also have relatively small therapeutic indices compared to other drugs (read: the difference between a nodding out dose and a stopping breathing dead dose is equal or smaller on these than on fentanyl... which isn't super forgiving in the first place.)

* fun fact: the federal analogue act was first introduced in the 80s to combat... fentanyl analogues.

Man, I had to just look up what log kow meant, and I'm not sure I knew what the fuck I just read, end of a bit of a stimulant binge. I really should be log off.... and take college level chemistry and anatomy/physiology courses.


So it's likely thcified got the salt,and I got the freebase? I was making butyr-fentanyl acetate with the distilled white vinegar, or is the freebase merely soluble in low ph solutions?

As for the the second part, yeah, if you don't know what therapeutic indice, LD50 or ED50 mean go read some more and forget about this stuff. I've had a surprisingly easy time not getting more. Part of it was for three days after I ran out, I used 3-meo-pcp which seemed to clear up any fogginess, or negative emotions. That plus loperamide, without the lope I'd be a basketcase. That was like two weeks ago? Haven't really thought about this stuff since. Of course it's price kinda helped with that.

Dude owes me 15 bucks, and I haven't even used that as a justification to spend a shit ton more than that. lol

I was aware about the analogue act, but it's a pretty imperfect little thing. Until they decide to go 110% asshole and make some catch-all "if it makes you feel good, then you're going to jail" kind of shit, they just have to keep playing whack-a-mole. I believe the true "legal high" corporations won't let that happen. But who knows, I believe EtOH is explicitly exempted from all drug legislation.

 

[sekio]

I was making butyr-fentanyl acetate with the distilled white vinegar, or is the freebase merely soluble in low ph solutions?

Both. The freebase is soluble in low pH solutions because it forms a salt. If you use vinegar it forms the acetate, cola would form the phosphate etc. THCified probably got either a hydrochloride or citrate salt, usually fentanyl is distributed as the citrate, but lots of drugs are the HCl salt. It would (should?) have been specified on the packaging.

I was aware about the analogue act, but it's a pretty imperfect little thing. Until they decide to go 110% asshole and make some catch-all "if it makes you feel good, then you're going to jail" kind of shit

That's what the analogue act is, though. If they can show that this is an opioid with similar structure to a schedule 1 or 2 drug (hey fentanyl is schedule 2!) then they can prosecute you for it. And last I checked this is... an opioid with a suspiciously similar chemical structure to fentanyl.

Also, for any bystanders in the audience, logD is a fancy chart that shows preference for water versus oil solubility for a compound compared to pH.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Both. The freebase is soluble in low pH solutions because it forms a salt. If you use vinegar it forms the acetate, cola would form the phosphate etc. THCified probably got either a hydrochloride or citrate salt, usually fentanyl is distributed as the citrate, but lots of drugs are the HCl salt. It would (should?) have been specified on the packaging.

Man, no chemical I have EVER bought except for this 4-aco-dmt (which is listed as freebase) has EVER said whether it was a salt or freebase, racemic or enantiomerically pure. Then again, I don't believe I ever asked. Shit, maybe it's written on the MSDS sheets? It sure as fuck ain't on the packages. It's always the common name, the long ass one, the CAS number, and a warning that it's NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.

That's what the analogue act is, though. If they can show that this is an opioid with similar structure to a schedule 1 or 2 drug (hey fentanyl is schedule 2!) then they can prosecute you for it. And last I checked this is... an opioid with a suspiciously similar chemical structure to fentanyl.

It sure is. But all of the the RCs are similar in structure to schedule I and II drugs. The thing is, I'm only buying ethylphenidate which is y'know so freaking different from a schedule two drug for analytical research. I wouldn't dare put that shit into my body!

Also, for any bystanders in the audience, logD is a fancy chart that shows preference for water versus oil solubility for a compound compared to pH.

Well whoever wrote what I read wanted to sound super fucking fancy This is a concept I understand I think, hydrophilicity and hydrophobia and how pH mediates it?

FUCK I HATE HOW RIGHT WHEN I HIT POST THIS SHIT GOES DOWN. lol

First world problems. Seriously what the hell are you doing at 2AM? Tell me that there's not a workaround to backup/upgrade what you need to without taking down your whole web server? Or do I just miss the periods that google goes offline for five minutes?

 

[THCified]

Well then, fuck me and sorry to you, M8... i was beyond baffled about the MoFo-thing but as it was late at night and me being obviously unable to read between the lines

The Butyr-Fentanyl i had was indeed HCl, and it was easily soluble in water - i was using a sterile saline solution btw.

Damn, i miss that stuff - even though it's good i have no chance to score sum atm as it made my tolerance skyrocket back then, as expected!

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Well then, fuck me and sorry to you, M8... i was beyond baffled about the MoFo-thing but as it was late at night and me being obviously unable to read between the lines

The Butyr-Fentanyl i had was indeed HCl, and it was easily soluble in water - i was using a sterile saline solution btw.

*shrug*

Although, I believe that would make it a bit less potent (far less than 10% difference I'm sure) than the freebase as it has those extra H+ molecules for the ride. Need Seiko for confirmation of my conjecture.

 

[crOOk]

*shrug*

Although, I believe that would make it a bit less potent (far less than 10% difference I'm sure) than the freebase as it has those extra H+ molecules for the ride. Need Seiko for confirmation of my conjecture.

You don't need seiko for that.

It's not just the proton, since it is a salt (made with HCl and the freebase).

So we are going to add the molecular weights of the two together:
-Butyr-Fentanyl has a molecular weight of 350.5 g/mol
-HCl has a molecular weight of (35.45 + 1) g/mol = 36.45 g/mol
-The sum is (350.5 + 36.45) g/mol = 386.95 g/mol

That means the fentanyl freebase makes up (350.5 / 386.95) g/mol = 0,91. That means the Butyr-Fentanyl freebase has 91% of the mass of the salt.

Just invert that number to see how much more of the salt you need to consume to reach the same dosage: 1 / 0.91 = 1.10 = 110%

So you've got to consume 10% more of the salt than of the freebase
or 9% less of the freebase compared to the salt.

In conclusion, 10% was a good guess. Or was it?

 

[DKKON1]

The merciful thing with these fast acting fent. analogs is the WDs are quick, brutal don't get me wrong, but fast. AH7921 was EXCELLENT for mitigating symptoms, made a painful process suddenly bearable.

Lost two friends to these this year

 

[Sebastior]

Does anybody know the BA% of butyrfentanyl orally, rectally and nasally?

Do fentanyl and other substance analouge bioavailability percentages change or stay the same?

 

[nasir~]

Does anybody know the BA% of butyrfentanyl orally, rectally and nasally?

Unfortunately I do not know the(different?) BA% of butyrfent. .

Do fentanyl and other substance analouge bioavailability percentages change or stay the same?

Fentanyl itself has varying numbers in that regard -obviously-depending on ROA.
My guess(!) is that the analogues beeing discussed here have a good chance of acting in a similar way, regarding BA.
But you (at least I) never know how a substance is going to behave in detail.

Take care of yourselfs.

 

[silas GUY]

this is shit not to be fucked with

 

[Sebastior]

Unfortunately I do not know the(different?) BA% of butyrfent. .
Fentanyl itself has varying numbers in that regard -obviously-depending on ROA.
My guess(!) is that the analogues beeing discussed here have a good chance of acting in a similar way, regarding BA.
But you (at least I) never know how a substance is going to behave in detail.

Take care of yourselfs.

Do you have any clue about its BA% rectally?

 

[phatass]

Are these euphoric/recrational at all? or do they just make you nod? also is A-Fent any diffrent in effects to B-Fent? Apart from the novelty of the compounds

What's the best ROA (apart from IV)? How long does the high last, vaped? Plugged? sublingual? ROA's.

Any idea of approximate doss? 1-2mg maybe?

Any crucial info i should know about these....?

THANKS ALL

 

[slimshady793]

Hey guys,

to be honest, I am a bit scared of something like fentanyl analogues, especially with all those death reports, but I am interested in trying a stronger opiate. I have only experience with tramadol, codeine, kratom and codeine. Codeine in high doses gave me some kind of idea how opiates should probably feel, but wasnt something I was craving for the next day. Tramadol is okay...I dont feel much from it, except combined with benzos, but I believe this is due to the Mirtazapine I take. Kratom was fun at first, but didnt worked anymore after a few times like I expected it, so I had never any interested in ordering more or again. I took this year poppy pods for the first time and expected them to be really strong and was really careful, in the end, all my pods were gone and I had only threshold to mild experiences...but better be safe than sorry, right?

The best experience I had was with tilidine, which by far the strongest and most euphoric. But no way to get it here without a script anymore. I live in the EU so its pretty well known, especially in germany for abuse, like oxycodone in the us, which doesnt know anybody here.

The thing is I really wanted to try something Oxycodone,Hydromorphone like. I could access these, real ones of course, but even smack would be cheaper and I am not willed to spend so much money for 1-2 pills. Are these fentanyl analogues worth trying and I would probably only test the powder, wouldnt trust any solution which made some stranger.

How does it compare to stronger opiates like tilidine, oxycodone, oxymorphone, heroine, opium?

 

[tacodude]

slimshady you are making a HORRID choice. Trust me when I say any of those you mention will just become a problem.... The fact you consider opium in the same area of oxys and heroin shows how little you understand these compounds. Personally I found opium to not be all that sedating with a minor tolerance unless I ate it and even then it wasn't all that strong. You are better off trying 1-2 pills, but at the same time I recommend you don't because once you try them you will probably want more.

Just smoke some weed trust me... Not the synthetic stuff as it will destroy you and any possibilities of enjoying cannabis in the future.

 

[slimshady793]

I dont really get what you are trying to saying? I dont even smoke weed, because I just dont like it anymore, it doesnt work as it did years ago. Getting introverted, anxiety, etc.

I know that people would tell me now that I am lying to myself, but I never had a craving for any kind of opiate. I mean, yeah they feel okay, but thats it. I get no euphoria like from MDMA, I dont get talkative like on good amphetamine, I dont get any ego boost. I just lay down, feel warmth, feel okay, too lazy to do anything and thats it.

I have an extreme addiction to benzodiazepines, I know that and I wont deny it , but yeah I dont know 1-2 times in 2 months and thats it. Like a rainy sunday, taking some codeine, or whatever is okay. I just found them....useless is the wrong word, but nut really recreational and I dont feel functional on most except low doses or Tramadol.

All I wanted to know is if it is worth trying or some useless bullshit like AH-7921 what was completely useless except you had physical pain. But yeah, the intense or euphoria most people describe with stronger opiates like heroin for example is for me just a numbing effect with a feeling of wellbeeing, but thats it. Dissociatives like MXE have some similarities to opiates for me. But euphoria...Euphoria is for me 120mg MDMA (thats enough, but 150 would be okay too) going outside, sun is shining and listening to my favourite music. That feels euphoric. Even exercising causes sometimes more euphoria than the strongest opiate I took ( Tilidine ) which I think is what oxycodone would probably feel like, but not as sedating.

Please just tell me if its worth trying or useless. Is it euphoric in your opinion which will for me be a feeling of wellbeeing like I said. I am the last person on earth that would say that opiates arent addictive, for some they are addictive as hell, for me they are sometimes fun to take, because you dont have an ugly comedown like on stimulants or MDMA, which could lead to redosing easily (was I doing with benzos) but I never felt a craving or something, I felt a bit more relaxed after the effects but was happy that I feel functional rather than just laying there doing nothing...Which I dont even like on higher doses Dissociatives, but they have compared to opiates to me psychedelic effects. Opiates just numbs me emotionally. I am not feeling bad, I am not feeling great. Feel ok, thats it.

I am just a person who just experiments with any kind of drug which he is think worth trying and the only ones I regret trying were tobacco, weed and benzodiazepines...because these caused the most damage to me.

 

[tacodude]

I'm telling you now not worth it.... If you can't enjoy weed you shouldn't mess with other substances without support from a professional imo

Edit: I'll add mixing it with your benzos is asking for a fatal reaction

 

[Smoky]

Yes, don't add benzos to any opiate… In my 20's I took myself to the ER for spinal pain (b4 surgery), and this was when I wasn't tolerant on opiates yet, but Benzos.

I had extreme hyperthyroid so they couldn't tell I was sedated. They gave me one of those above, and morphine. Let's just say I was dragged back in the ER after release 1/2 hour later..

Good post, as folks don't know the dangers of this drug, nor with other substances…

 

[muntedmunter]

Hi - I have with me 5 x Fentanyl blotters(500ug). I was told you put one under your tongue for 20 or so minutes.

I have no tolerance to opiates, I've never even tried oxy or heroin before... Someone just gave me a few to try out and not sure what to do with them.

Anyway... After reading a lot I realise how dangerous these can be and you should either stick away from them or do it in very small doses.

So the question is - for someone like me with NO tolerance what should a safe dosage be around? I was thinking of cutting each blotter up in quarters and going from there or should I cut these up in thirds or just not do them at all?

Cheers!!

 

[muntedmunter]

I just read this thread : http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/623176-Low-Tolerance-Fentanyl-Dosage

probs best I throw them out??

 

[slimshady793]

I'm telling you now not worth it.... If you can't enjoy weed you shouldn't mess with other substances without support from a professional imo

Edit: I'll add mixing it with your benzos is asking for a fatal reaction

I try to be polite, you dont know, so dont judge me. I didnt judge about you too, did I? Look, everyone reacts differently to drugs, there are so many things to consider when it came to drug abuse. Cannabis was my favourite drug for 5 years daily and to be honest, I say it the one that affected me the most, negative wise. Teenager years and chronic cannabis consume is really really destructive for your personality progress....I know 2 guys, who never did anything except weed, but they were chronic pot smokers. One is Schizophrenic and the other is...I dont even know how to call this disorder, theres probably no name yet for it...No, but the other one is just fucked up, not in a psychotic art, but like he lost his soul, dead eyes....isnt the same person as before,at some point something happend to him and I am sure the reason was cannabis abuse.

But back to topic, I cant enjoy weed ANYMORE, it makes me introverted, anxiety, more depressed and I am just in my head add this to depersonalization disorder and you still cant imagine how I feel. So, stop judging people.

I am in professional help if that will calm your nervers (which doesnt help anyway in my case) and all those bullshit anti depressants are more placebo than placebos...they do nothing except messing with your organs and brain chemistry. And yeah I know, drugs do this of course too, even more depending on what.

And do you really think I am somehow retarded that I would even add 0,01mg diazepam to a treshold dose of butyr fentanyl adding? Look, I dont want to sound offensive, but you dont know so dont judge over people. I appreciate that you would recommend me to not try it, which I can totally understand. But you draw a picture of me like I am the kind of person who eyeballs this stuff, wait 1 min., "aahh, shit doesnt work" redose, add 10mg midazolam and then I am gone.

I wouldnt even touch it, if someone would say its not even on par with 50mg tramadol, all I wanted was to try it once and thats it and I am not the kind of person who gets insanely addicted to opiates, I know many have serious problems with those, I never had, okay, I never took the hard ones, but tilidine...I dont know if any can compare it to oxycodone or something stronger...I think it is a pretty strong and for opiate lovers for sure an extremely euphoric compound, just not for me.

I liked stimulants 2 years pretty much...I mean I started with coffeine,ephedrine, then methylphenidate, then speed, cocaine twice (and I even regret it that I took this shit a second time) and tried methamphetamine once...Guess what, I never touched anything of these compounds again except speed, but just for going out if there was no MDMA.

Really it pisses me off that you talk about me like you know my whole personality, yeah I am/was a polytoxicomanic, I am destructive like borderlines. But if you understood yourself, your deficites, then you learn to deal with it and can handle it. But I never ever tried to kill myself with any drug combo and I was one year long 24/7 suicidal. Rock Bottom . I am just not the kind of person, who kills himself, when I was at my lowest I even stopped taking drugs, because I was so messed up that even taking them made no sense to me, because I didnt believed that anything on earth could make me feel better.

But, yeah I drift away from the topic and to be honest, today was the last day I said I abuse drugs. Drugs and Sports doesnt go well 2gether. Especially Stimulants, tomorrow I start making excessive sport again, eating healthy I do anyway and yeah. I am the kind of person who takes 3 months drugs, summer periods and if I say stop, I stop. Except for one thing...these fucking cigarettes are for me personally 1000 more addictive than cocaine, mdpv and every other drug I can think of together...I never had a problem quitting except cigarettes.

But like you see, I am on some kind of stimulant called MDPV for the last day at least for a few months and could write a roman to be honest. I just want to tell to, stop judging people you dont know.

Hell, I wouldnt even consider trying this butyr fentanyl, because it is indeed probably the most dangerous compound atm, even without mixing cns depressants.

I am just the kind of person who likes to try every kind of drug worth trying, yeah I know thats kinda sick too of course, but I am not the one who takes and the next day you see me running naked through the city, kidnapping my mum for trading for smack. lol

Man....these stimulants and talktative effects...