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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v16.0

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thanks evey! much appreciated! feel free to pm me any time too :)

Also, more on topic with the recent progression of this thread, I kind of get where BostonBrownTown is coming from. I've always been a low-dose suboxone user, primarily because I read about it on the BL before I ever even took it, but I feel like some folks are hyper-critical of anyone who doesn't adhere to the " less is more"/"norbupe at lower doses" philosophy, etc. this is not me trying to criticize anyone for anything but only me saying that experiences with suboxone seem highly variable and subjective. e.g., most people on here tend to agree that there is no difference between the effects of suboxone and subutex, but for me there is a huge difference. maybe it's the naloxone. maybe it's something else. i have no idea. but i read about how there should be no difference on here for a long time, i expected no difference, was way surprised by how much better i liked subutex, and then a number of people on here told me it was placebo based on their own subjective experiences and our forum's party line. i'm not criticizing, and i realize i'm prob in the minority there--and am only citing for example--to really say that drugs effect different people in different ways, and we should not be so quick to discount others' experiences based on our own experiences or based on our generally accepted pharmacological beliefs, which often tend to differ from those with medical degrees--again, not saying who is right or wrong. Only keep an open mind.
 
Eveleivibe said:
Tb can I ask what were the side affects you were experiencing on the high does please? I was on 8 mg for 5 months but have been put on 12 mg as was still having intense cravings. In the mornings I get pins n needles in my hands or whenever I'm using my phone a lot (I used to get this when on extremely high does of codeine). I am also very impatient with people with I put down to the Mirtazapine n a few other things but apart from that I feel great.

Evey x
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The side effects were headaches, a hangover feeling in the morning, increased anxiety, and just generally feeling drugged and numb.
 
Lol my mom wanted to try some of my subtext so I said okay and she snorted 1mg

lets just say she knows how powerful the stuff is now
 
your mom sniffed your sub? wow. ha.

all I can say bros.. I gave up on what others are saying, doing, know, etc. just doesnt make sense a lot of the time to me. I take subox classes in order to stay on subox for so cheap and for so long and what I hear coming from doctors and other users, are the opposite of what I hear in this forum.

put it this way.. if you have insurance, and you have the ability to get the subox for <no price discussion> /mo for WHATEVER dose, then by all mean get that dosage and figure it out yourself. start high, see how you feel. you dont feel good? OK, go lower. and then lower and lower and lower. do whatever you want but NEVER LIMIT YOURSELF by saying you read about low dosage, blah blah. MAX THE FCK OUT and if you truly want to quit use what you have in order to put yourself in the best shape possible to move on and get well.

wish you all nothing but the best.
 
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Well back to my taper thing. going to 2 mg tomorrow. I think it may be catching up to me. Pretty sore and stomach cramps every time I eat. It's not bad though. The Dr told me it will only be a little worse than now by the time I totally stop.

They gave me stuff for the cramps and aching and . Bentyl and Flexerill ( Ya!! what a bs drug) Thankfully I have Soma and robaxin in the house.

It's 3 days at 4mg and tomorrow starts my 3 days at 2 then they said I can go to 1 for a "while" have no idea what while is. They said if it's bad they will go to .5 if they have to but rarely do.

It's funny, cause I felt the little 4mg I took today.

I'm just wondering how bad is it really going to be..... The end of my taper is very near.
 
Yeah, bupe takes a very long time to kick in. I mostly IV it, for instance, I took my last dose of bupe on tues last week in prep for the smack, last bit of smack was 24 hours ago I loaded up the bupe and registered. I'm so used to smack almost instantly over taking me with that surge... With bupe its nothing after 30 sec, them ten minutes after IVed I'm finally starting to notice the positive effects from bupe, and then by twenty to thirty minutes its peaked. If I subling it, easily 2-5 hours before peak.

It's why I believe at least in my case the few times I had PWs it was indeed the naloxone that starts the WD process by getting there so fast because its usually about 20-50 minutes after the PWs I start to feel better. EDIT: by stating that, it does not mean that bupe itself will not cause horrid WDs, cause in fact it will. Whoever decided to compare WDs to the flu... I was just in WDs 40 minutes ago and I don't know about you all but no flu I've ever had comes close to the agony of WD. If WD were indeed flu like, human species would had eradicated that viruse from existence years ago. Flu like my ass... I think that notion to the layman does not convey just how painful WDs are.


If more people actually read about NORbupe they would realize how it barely adds to bupes magic. In fact, if bupe didn't out compete Norbupe we probably wouldn't have this miracle med.

NORbupe would kill way before you got anything positive from it. It favors the gut and lungs.
 
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If someone says withdrawal is like a bad flu it's safe to assume they never experienced a severe withdrawal.

Im getting this weird depersonalization effect 12-18 hours after my sub dose. It's the beginning of the withdrawal for me, anyone get this?

At onset, (ime) Sub WD really does feel like a muted heroin WD. I haven't let it linger much longer than a few hours so I have no idea what I am really in for. :(
 
I remember my counselor at the methadone clinic telling me that I'd feel like I had "the flu" after quitting methadone at 80mg .(down from 140) He said "rent some funny movies and drink tea"
I don't ever remember wanting to kill myself during the flu. Let's just say my attempt didn't last long....
What Methadone/Suboxone Drs and counselors DONT know could fill a library. The people who really know are on these forums.
I totally agree with you Stray cat...everyone's experience, especially with sub, is different. I never had the "honeymoon" period that people talk about. Sub always made me feel bad...I couldn't sleep, bad headaches, and just a bad attitude and depression in general.
As far as finding the right dose, I'd suggest starting low, and working your way up. Sub just didn't have the feeling of methadone and I only took enough to keep me out of WD. 2mg.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
^^^

Yeah, I've had the flu.. and I'd take that over withdrawal any day of the week.
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I swear I wasn't sick one day while on methadone (12 yrs) and BAM, the first two months off maintenance I had several colds.
I've wondered if opiates boost the immune system, or I was just too numb to notice a cold? (Or my memory of the methadone days is a bit off?) But I've heard lots of other people who have had the same experience. Maybe just the stress of WD causes colds?
 
Thanks Tommy. I just wanted to see if my side affects were similar. Although, as my changed my antidepressants at the same time I can't put it down to suboxone. As I have 28 citealopram left I've decided to go back to citralopram instead of the Mirtazapine. If symptoms persist past a few weeks I can say its the suboxone.
I've not had headaches since increasing: just a panicky-impatient feeling, tired in the mornings n pins n needles but since I've started exercising I've got more energy.
I've noticed that, for me, exercise is so much harder I have to force myself, I drip with sweat quicker n it literally pors from me during my workouts than before. Don't get me wrong I was drippong before especially doing INSANITY but nothing like this.

I am going to do some research as to whether suboxone slows down metabolism. I know I would sometimes forget to eat which isn't like me at all n lately I've started to feel hungry more. Of course other facters are at play such as I am on the herbalife diet. I am eating healthier n less so it may be my body craving that extra stuff rather than my metabolism i increasing n over riding the possibility that suboxone may have slowed it down to begin with.
 
I haven't had the flu in so long, I can't remember what its like. Some people act like they are dying when sick with it, some actually do die so it can be nasty. But thats mostly old people, they'd die from the next thing capable of killing them if the flu didn't manage to do it, they'd probably die from opiate withdrawal, too.
 
Opies must do something for the immune system. I never ever got even got a sniffle while on them. The last time I kicked not more than a month after I got sick. Then another run with oxy and no illness at all. Did a quick search and found this old thread saying the same thing. http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/548596-*Impossible*-to-get-a-cold-flu-while-on-opiates
(please don't post in that thread it's very old)
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/548596-*Impossible*-to-get-a-cold-flu-while-on-opiates


Holy crap!!! This mumbo jumbo if I'm reading it right says that opiate IV users have an immune tolerance to HIV????????

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1301643

The advent of AIDS and the identification of intravenous drug abusers as a critical risk group have propelled interest in this area. Data obtained both in vitro and in vivo with various experimental models shows that morphine increases susceptibility to bacterial and viral infections, the latter effect possibly being related to a depressive effect of opioids on gamma-interferon levels. The dosage and time of administration strongly influence the results: it appears that chronic opioid treatment in vivo induces a state of immune tolerance, with normal resistance to viral infections, whereas short or single administration has a detrimental effect. In the former context, other factors such as a morphine-induced increase in CD4+ cell numbers may tend to enhance the infectivity of HIV-infected subjects.
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^Sometimes I think I have been sick on opiates and not even cared because I was high.
 
re opioids and not getting sick:

what everyone is saying is so true! i literally was not sick (besides like hungover or in wds) for like 10 years. but every time i quit, w/in a week or 2, it seems like i get some crazy cold that won't go away, or start getting the flu frequently, etc. this past summer when i tried to quit, i started getting these awful toothaches/mouth/gum pain which i had never experienced before. i went to the dentist because i thought i was going to have to have all of my teeth removed or something. all of this leads me to say that i still have no idea as to whether opiods help the immune system somehow or whether i just don't notice anything when i'm on them every day. the cold/flu stuff seems to support the former, but things like excruciating tooth pain seem to support the latter.
 
stray cat said:
re opioids and not getting sick:

what everyone is saying is so true! i literally was not sick (besides like hungover or in wds) for like 10 years. but every time i quit, w/in a week or 2, it seems like i get some crazy cold that won't go away, or start getting the flu frequently, etc. this past summer when i tried to quit, i started getting these awful toothaches/mouth/gum pain which i had never experienced before. i went to the dentist because i thought i was going to have to have all of my teeth removed or something. all of this leads me to say that i still have no idea as to whether opiods help the immune system somehow or whether i just don't notice anything when i'm on them every day. the cold/flu stuff seems to support the former, but things like excruciating tooth pain seem to support the latter.
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That's funny you say that StrayCat...that's one of first things that drives me back to opiates...the tooth aches I get in WD! I never have them while on opiates. I always get weird skin outbreaks in WD and this last time I had "Burning Mouth Syndrome". It came and went quickly and is said to be caused by stress...It was the weirdest thing I've ever experienced, hurt like crazy.
I really think it's true that chronic opiate use raises the immune system...I didn't even get the sniffles while on methadone.
 
RTrain said:
I haven't had the flu in so long, I can't remember what its like. Some people act like they are dying when sick with it, some actually do die so it can be nasty. But thats mostly old people, they'd die from the next thing capable of killing them if the flu didn't manage to do it, they'd probably die from opiate withdrawal, too.
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Not that I want to get into this much but..

Outside of the runny nose and aches (maybe a few other similarities) withdrawal and the flu are not very similar. For instance, last time I had the flu I slept for the majority of the 2 days it lasted, last time I was in severe WD I was lucky to sleep more than an hour or so per day. Flu makes you feel a bit down but not in the near panic state that WD can cause. Also, you have that weird libido rebound in WD, which is prob the opposite of what happens with the flu.

But yes the flu can be very dangerous to unhealthy individuals/people with a weak immune system.
 
Another aspect of opiate/opioid use/dependance/addiction that is not mentioned much, is the users preoccupation with how they feel and should feel.

IMO, this drives me nuts. I've been on opioids for so long I have no way of remembering what normal felt like.
 
108 days sober thanks to Subox.

God bless the box.. and the weed I smoke.
 
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