NSW to slap temporary ban on synthetic drugs after Kwan death

[AcidAttack]

What a stupid title, the majority of drugs are synthetic like paracetamol... so this kid actually bought a tablet with one of the NBOMe compounds.. they probably mean blotter because why would you put a drug that is inactive orally in a tablet.. (so they are actually being sold at head shops?) anyway honestly, i don't care about them being banned, from what i have read they don't seem like decent psychedelics at all, even compared to the various grey area psychedelics like the 2C compounds and whatnot around and were just made in labs because of the 2C compounds being banned in the US and because it could fit on a tab, so the legal high sellers could start selling an LSD alternative as well as the RC vendors, but the damage has been done, the NBOMe compounds are going to be around for a long time unfortunately, all we can do is just warn the drug community publicly that if you are going to try LSD, to take it orally so if it is an NBOMe, you wont get any effect.

Also i think regulating these new legal highs like the synthetic cannabinoids is a ridiculous idea, why not just finally admit that the drug war has failed, people are always going to do whatever they want, take the Adam and Eve story from the bible, god told them not to eat from one tree and they couldn't do that, temptation of the forbidden is always attractive to some, the bible can be quite useful when you actually understand that those stories have a message, and its not something to be taken literally, Ive never understood the illegality of mind altering drugs, sure they have their risks but the key is harm reduction, give up the drug war, let the people have their drugs, opium, cannabis, peyote and all the other plants exist and have been held in high regard ever since man found them, even today, nothing is more useful for killing pain then opiates, how can you ban a plant? did mother nature or god make a mistake? i mean sure if its one like say morning glories and other non native plants which have disasters effects on the Australian environment, that is fine, but if it changes your perception of reality, nope, we can only have caffeine, tobacco and alcohol, which themselves are a fuck load more dangerous then morphine, cannabis, DMT, but no, we have to be controlled, when people like John Lennon and Martin Luther King JR, men who promote peace, are assassinated, you can't help but wonder if this so called "Illuminati" do exist, and for some reason want to keep us at war over land or who really is god, power corrupts people, the only answer is to let nobody rule or have a higher status then others and to have nobody own any land, i know I'm going off topic but whatever.

Most people say drugs should be illegal because people can get addicted, why can't heroin or cocaine be regulated as well? its the illegality that causes all the problems, wouldn't it be great if there was, say a building designated for the selling and using of recreational drugs, at the bottom, a store selling everything from Amphetamines to LSD to Zolpidem, where with the more addictive drugs, its purchasing amount is limited and if people show they have self control they can get more and maybe be able to take them at home, pamphlets on each drug that contains all the information you need to know, such as if complications arise and all that, then the above floors could each be designated for uppers, downers and trips, where people could either use with others, or have a private room, you could listen to music, just lay down, dance, whatever, with people around trained for any problems that could arise, like an overdose with people who have an unnaturally low tolerance, or for people who freak out or whatever, this drug war charade cannot last, i don't know how long it will take, but something like that is bound to happen sometime.

I use to think faith was stupid, but now i understand it, it doesn't matter what if you believe in god or believe aliens are responsible for us being here, you have to believe something, or else this world will get to you, overwhelm you and you end up doing something stupid like killing yourself, but really, with all the pain and suffering going on around the world, you can't blame them as some people get the shitty end of the stick.

 

[webbykevin]

Chemistry complicating synthetic drug debate


South Australia's Attorney-General has backed calls for a strong national effort to combat the rise of synthetic drugs, but admits the chemistry involved makes it difficult to come up with suitable legislation.

The New South Wales Government has announced a ban on the sale of 18 synthetic drugs for 90 days following the death of Sydney teenager Henry Kwan last week.

The 17-year-old jumped off a balcony while allegedly under the influence of a drug that mimics LSD.

The South Australian Government has the power to stop the sale and distribution of certain drugs under the Controlled Substances Act.

SA's Attorney-General John Rau says it is difficult to draft legislation that can keep up with the large number of substances available.

He says many of the substances are imported and without Federal legislation, there is only so much individual states can do to prevent their spread.

"The problem is that to ban something, or make it prohibited or illegal, it's reasonably important to be able to define what it is you're talking about," he said.

"Many of these chemicals are being invented, if you like, on an ongoing basis. So the legislative model is constantly playing catch-up with the chemists."

"If we don't have uniform national rules about what is okay and isn't okay, the borders within the Commonwealth become so permeable that you're making little effect. If we banned a particular substance in South Australia, but it was still legal to import it into Australia, obviously it would be pretty hard to stop that substance finding its way into South Australia.

"Our system is pretty good at identifying things that we know exist and to make them illegal if we consider them dangerous. Where it becomes complicated is where all that we know about one of these substances is the effect it has had on somebody. That makes it extremely to actually identify what in fact the substance is and what in fact you're making illegal."

Lack of definition

Mr Rau says more than a dozen synthetic drugs have already been outlawed in South Australia.

In 2011, the State Government banned synthetic cannabis, including the product 'kronic'.

"We've always worked on the basis that substances are legal unless made illegal. An alternative way of looking at things is to make substances illegal unless they're made legal. The problem with that approach is that you don't want to catch a whole bunch of things that you never intended to catch, like herbal tea for example," Mr Rau said.

He concedes coming up with laws to combat synthetic is one of the most complicated issues currently facing legislators.

"We all know what we would like to stop people using- that is, dangerous substances which make them at risk of hurting themselves or other people. The difficulty is we don't have much more definition than that," he said.

"Imagine a molecule that looks like an orange and you've got a toothpick sticking out of that molecule the only bit of the molecule that's actually affecting you is the toothpick.

"You identify that chemical and you define that chemical. That becomes prohibited. The chemists are smart enough to be able to move that toothpick from an orange and put it on a walnut. You then have a completely different chemical that is doing the same thing."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-10/chemistry-complicating-synthetic-drug-debate/4743584

 

[webbykevin]

The scary thing is, there are a lot of low IQ reactionary fuckwits in this country that have no understanding of complex issues, are spoon fed there opinions by channel nine and will come away from a story like this believing we should ban toothpicks ! Sigh.

I guess we are pretty safe from those people as long as we keep using big words in the title, most of them scratched their Neanderthal brows, skimmed across the available headlines and just picked out the ones with words like "Hero, footy, V8, balls, tits" etc.....

A heading including words like chemistry, complicating, synthetic and debate just pushes the fight or flight button in the sheeple and they move into default anger, inferiority and denial mode, annoyed that there has to be a world that contains big complicated issues and dumbfounded as to why anyone would not be just like them and be happy to watch someone else hit a ball with a stick for entertainment.


Sorry, got my monday morning head on

 

[gimpan]

The scary thing is, there are a lot of low IQ reactionary fuckwits in this country that have no understanding of complex issues, are spoon fed there opinions by channel nine and will come away from a story like this believing we should ban toothpicks ! Sigh.

I guess we are pretty safe from those people as long as we keep using big words in the title, most of them scratched their Neanderthal brows, skimmed across the available headlines and just picked out the ones with words like "Hero, footy, V8, balls, tits" etc.....

A heading including words like chemistry, complicating, synthetic and debate just pushes the fight or flight button in the sheeple and they move into default anger, inferiority and denial mode, annoyed that there has to be a world that contains big complicated issues and dumbfounded as to why anyone would not be just like them and be happy to watch someone else hit a ball with a stick for entertainment.


Sorry, got my monday morning head on

You go Webbykevin! you show them whos smarter with name calling and gross generalisations.

Smugalert!Smugalert!Smugalert!

 

[webbykevin]

You go Webbykevin! you show them whos smarter with name calling and gross generalisations.

Smugalert!Smugalert!Smugalert!

Aha ! A hero worshipping V8 balls and tits guy, you click on the wrong link facebook, trying to get the NSW blues page and ended up here by mistake ?

 

[gimpan]

Aha ! A hero worshipping V8 balls and tits guy, you click on the wrong link facebook, trying to get the NSW blues page and ended up here by mistake ?

Yeah mate love V8s! but not rugby. Just pointing out that talking down to people and calling them names makes you the same as people who might call drug users dole bludging criminals.

Its upsetting you think the best way to change societys views on drug laws is to build a bigger wall between us by being an arrogant douche.

 

[TellMeWhatIsLife]

Looks like drug hysteria hasn't changed much from the 60s.

"Henry Kwan, who jumped off a third-floor balcony on Wednesday after taking a synthetic LSD tablet."

It just shows the lack of educational caliber you have to be to work for Sydney Morning Herald. It would've taken this idiot "journalist" 30 seconds on Google to find out that LSD IS purely a synthetic substance. Also if the article is correct and the guy took a rip-off chemical substitute for cannabinoids then that is not even within the same galaxy chemical-wise or effect-wise as LSD.

It just proves the point that "in journalism the truth is a very rare and dangerous commodity."

So they've banned cannabis, now they've banned fake cannabis, and now the young people are probably going to huff some sort of fake cannabis gas and more will die, and then the politicians will ban THAT, so then cunts will be mainlining asbestos to get high. When will it end?

 

[Nozphexezora]

But the title is easy to read for people who are stunad when it comes to drugs, so in a sense it's good journalism. You know - for profitability.

 

[CHRONiK]

Ridiculous. As mentioned earlier. Alcohol. Enuff said.

 

[poledriver]

Banned drugs 'channelled to black market'

Retailers of synthetic drugs have pulled millions of dollars worth of products from their shelves and pushed them onto the black market, according to the association representing them.

A ban on 19 synthetic drugs was implemented on Sunday following the death of north shore student Henry Kwan, who jumped from a third-floor balcony last Wednesday after taking what police believe was synthetic LSD.

On Tuesday, 120 officers from the Department of Fair Trading will visit tobacconists, adult shops, service stations and other retailers across the state to inform them of the bans and enforce the removal of products.

However, Fiona Patten, chief executive of Eros, said her members had been given 24 hours notice to pull products or face fines of more than $1 million. As a result, they had been given ''no choice but to get rid of them as quickly as possible,'' she said.

Eros, the national adult retail and entertainment association, represents about 20 per cent of the $700 million synthetic drug market.

Eros co-ordinator Robbie Swan said a ring around to NSW members over the weekend revealed many had pulled their stock and funnelled it to black market dealers.

''Every suburban drug dealer in town now has a whole new range of products,'' he said. ''By publishing a list of banned products, the Minister for Fair Trading has handed a shopping list to backyard drug dealers.''

A letter sent to retailers from NSW Fair Trading on Sunday warns that suppliers who fail to comply with the ban on 19 products may be found guilty of a criminal offence for which the maximum fine is $220,000 for an individual or $1.1 million for a
corporation. The letter does not offer to buy back stock and does not give any instructions on how or where to dispose of it.

Minister for Fair Trading Anthony Roberts said it was ''disappointing'' and ''disturbing'' to think that retailers were missing the point of the bans.

''Any trader who decides to sell these products on any black market is choosing profits and the potential to cause harm and misery over the welfare of the community,'' he said.

"The interim product safety ban is the first step in protecting the community from synthetic drugs.''

He said the deployment of 120 staff into the field this week was aimed at assisting retailers to comply with the bans including giving instructions on what to do with the products.

Mr Roberts has asked the ACCC to make the interim product safety ban a permanent national ban.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...lack-market-20130610-2o02g.html#ixzz2VqNKlUTm

 

[infectedmushroom]

I sometimes wonder what I would do, when coming face to face with the moronic, power-hunger politicians who reinforce this bullshit. I'm a passive person, but I fantasise knocking their teeth out just for the principal. Tiring isn't even the word anymore.

 

[Harkat]

I don't understand why there is (what seems to me to be) a lack of interest in studying the effects these drugs have on the human system and as accurately, as unbiased, as possible creating as solid as possible an understanding of the chemical/drug-body/mind situation in order to determine questions that include: Can they be used safely? What use do/can they have? Can they allow us to grow as a species/culture/ect? Under what circumstances do we use these chemicals safely?

Surely just banning these substances and throwing them away would leave out the potential to discover new/alternative medicines or new/alternative approaches to life and living.
Life itself is not black and white for the most part and (since I currently live in Australia) I see the governments as the system that tries to regulate and protect those under it's care in a manner that is culturally acceptable, there surely are reasons amongst the governments/politicians that lead to a lack of studies done to gain a larger understanding of these chemicals, particularly now that newer synthetic chemicals are becoming more prevalent (I assume they are because I hear about them more in the recent years).

It seems to me that there is an element of fear involved, maybe of change (in these drugs becoming more well known, think 1970's commonplace)or maybe they are banning these substances to favour the majority of people who are perhaps scared as well.

Just some thoughts =\

 

[thestudent14]

Stick around Harkat, you'll fit in just fine around here.

 

[JeanJM]

I don't understand why there is (what seems to me to be) a lack of interest in studying the effects these drugs have on the human system and as accurately, as unbiased, as possible creating as solid as possible an understanding of the chemical/drug-body/mind situation in order to determine questions that include: Can they be used safely? What use do/can they have? Can they allow us to grow as a species/culture/ect? Under what circumstances do we use these chemicals safely?

Surely just banning these substances and throwing them away would leave out the potential to discover new/alternative medicines or new/alternative approaches to life and living.
Life itself is not black and white for the most part and (since I currently live in Australia) I see the governments as the system that tries to regulate and protect those under it's care in a manner that is culturally acceptable, there surely are reasons amongst the governments/politicians that lead to a lack of studies done to gain a larger understanding of these chemicals, particularly now that newer synthetic chemicals are becoming more prevalent (I assume they are because I hear about them more in the recent years).

It seems to me that there is an element of fear involved, maybe of change (in these drugs becoming more well known, think 1970's commonplace)or maybe they are banning these substances to favour the majority of people who are perhaps scared as well.

Just some thoughts =\

It's all about control and those who do drugs IMO are more open minded than the sheeple and everyone knows sheeple are easier to manipulate.

 

[thestudent14]

^ I think the issue is a bit more complex then drug laws being about control, there's multiple legitimate arguments to multiple sides of the topic.

 

[JeanJM]

They don't want people experiencing pleasure other than from 'hard work' and life achievements? lol.

It's control in the form of profits, being able to grown your own medicine would be a downer on pharmaceutical companies and Doctors $$$. Control of the mind to some extent. When I tried Acid for the first time my perception on life and the world did a 180. No longer was I concerned about consuming and owning things, having better and bigger things then someone else. It was more about how can I help those that need it? I volunteer at animal shelters and homeless shelters. I'm not concerned about wanting to make more money when I am very comfortable with what I have now even if it's nothing. Roof over my head and sometimes food in my belly, I just want to enjoy life. There is no need to be me me me when it can be we we we =)

 

[oldirtybizza]

In reply to thestudent14, tell me how legitimate it seems when the cops break down your door in the middle of the night, hold you captive, go through your most private possessions and access your phone records, emails and web accounts. (all without warrant mind, since it's not required if there is a 'reasonable' suspicion of drugs being involved)
Then I wonder how legitimate it seems spending years in a cage away from your loved ones trapped inside with violent murders and rapists, if they find enough of those pills pictured in your avatar.
That is the reality of the current drug laws and nobody should be legitimizing, this attack on human rights and basic freedoms.

It may seem complex but if one has a modicum of empathy, they would see that this is no way to treat your fellow man, shit even if you have no empathy, you could see that wars can't be fought indefinitely and this one has achieved nothing that it has intended to resolve.
So why is it continuing? why did the failed prohibition of alcohol last a few years whilst this prohibition is into the decades?

Seems to me like a win-win for those at the top, everyone in the legal/courts/police/customs/prisons is clipping the ticket and it's billions of dollars. Drug laws create a huge legal/prison industrial complex and have led to the erosion of our privacy and rights through sweeping powers of search, observation , detainment and data collection.
Drug laws allow proxy and actual wars to be fought in developing countries, creating puppet governments and destabilization. US soldiers in Honduras are looking for drug runners as much as they were looking for WMD's in Iraq, it's smoke and mirrors from the honest folks in power.
JeanJM my fellow Kiwi is spot on because drug use is also considered a subversive act and a threat to keeping you on the wheel with your blinkers on working your life away to line the pockets of the 1%.

To Harkat you said "Surely just banning these substances and throwing them away would leave out the potential to discover new/alternative medicines or new/alternative approaches to life and living" ex-fucking-actly which is why they ban them without so much as a consideration or afterthought to their potential, business as usual is the name of the game and they don't want any rocking of the boat, although it's a sinking ship , up shit-creek with a broken paddle and a megalomaniac at the helm.

One of the most widely used rationales for prohibition is that drugs are bad for your health and that altering your consciousness is wrong, the government then hypocritically allows the drugs that are made by those they are in the pocket of; nicotine,ethanol,caffeine,"medical" opiates and amphetamines (oxycodone now surpasses heroin for abuse in the US)
SO it's apparently a health issue , well what about all other things that have a negative impact on your health, like car exhaust especially diesel which has a far greater cancer risk than most drugs.
Dangerous products have been dumped on the masses without thought to their effects and were ultimately only pulled when way too many people started dying; DDT, thalidomide, fen-phen etc etc. Junk Food, Stress, Toxic pollution in virtually every water source and on and on. So why the hell is no body going to jail for these 'unhealthy' acts and why are they still so prevalent?

All of this and yet the drugs still flow and will continue to flow, because the intention isn't to stamp out drugs entirely although the means after 40+ years of drug control is certainly there to do so, it's too lucrative financially and politically to end.

I'm not calling out anybody or arguing with anyone in particular, there seems to be a lack of discourse on BL about drug law reform and way too many fence sitters who are more than happy to take the drugs as long as someone else is going to be the one in prison.
This site is supposed to be about Harm Reduction, the best HR we can do is to end this farcical war on drugs and liberate our fellow current and future drug users, brothers and sisters worldwide suffering and yet to suffer in incarceration and from the prejudice of drug convictions.
Only once the legal and social chains have been broken can we start to break the chains of addiction and abuse.

Peace

 

[thestudent14]

@oldirtbizza

Firstly, you completely extrapolated that first paragraph based on what I said. The drug war is more complex then it being about contro IMO, I've been on this site for years and drug law reform is something I'm passionate about. Of course there is nothing just about booting down doors and aiming guns at people for growing a plant or even synthesizing a chemical that's function is pleasure even though it has potential for abuse. All things have potential for abuse, but to what end would the government want to control us? So that they can choose how we live our life? I believe most politicians choose that job because they want to help society, the problem with drug legislation is we have decades of misinformation since the war on drugs started, they decided that drugs were bad for us and that we should no longer have the option to take them. But in doing this you have a whole generation of people who believe that they are doing the right thing by fighting drugs and making harsher sentences and laws when the reality is all it has done is more harm then good.

Sure there's money in private prisons, but if it was about money i'm sure there would've been much easier things to invest over the last 40 years then hoping that the prison industry would thrive. Lets not forget that whilst prisons may generate some cash they also cost 50,000 dollars a year for every person who stays there, and if they just wanted us to control, most politicians don't give two fucks about how we spend our spare time as long as we
A: Don't hurt other's
and
B: Contribute to society.
So as far as I can tell, there is still a heavy belief that some how telling us not to take drugs and punishing us for doing so, is some how in our best interest. A ludcaris statement if you take drugs like you and myself, but hardly radical if you've never taken a drug in your life. 7 million people in Australia have smoked cannabis but that means that it's still under a third of people. And the politicians that are most likely to get to the top of the political party are going to be ones who are more likely to get elected and when most Australians don't want drug law reform why would they say they're in favour of it?

Seems to me like a win-win for those at the top, everyone in the legal/courts/police/customs/prisons is clipping the ticket and it's billions of dollars

Does it really? Cause most policeman that I know hate that they spend so much time busting people over small amounts of pot. The courts in this country hardly thrive off the drug war, they have plenty of other cases to deal with, criminal law is much smaller then civil law and the money in both of these I'm sure is minimal compared to the high profile cases in commercial law. My best friend worked on the Centro case a couple years ago, and that was a multi-billion dollar dispute, that one case was over more money then the entire drug trade in Australia excluding cannabis for that year. Customs? I doubt that even registers in most peoples minds when they're thinking of the cash in flow and jobs created by the drug market. Besides if drugs were legal I doubt it would affect them anyway, alcohol/ciggs/meds/foods are all things checked by customs and often seized anyway. If drugs were legal doesn't neccessarily mean we would be aloud to take them through customs.

As far as data collection is concerned and freedoms concerned, I hate that anyone sacrifices freedoms on a mass scale for the sake of 'safety'. But once again how would all this data benefit the government? And do you really think they record the stuff they don't have an interest in? No, of course not. it'd be a waste of time and resources, but whilst they continue to fight drugs it makes perfect sense for them to come at us like an iron fist. Once again I don't agree with any of this and the drug laws but I do understand their side of it and the reasons they fight it the way they do. My sister, father, mother. Have never touched a drug in their life and they'd hate to hear about any of the drug use I have (which is quite a lot) because they're naivity towards the topic is reflected by what they believe is true and just. My family are people who are highly intelligent, have great ethics and have very strong feelings towards freedom/personal freedoms. But they are totally against drug use. If all they see is the media about drugs then what else are they meant to think? Why would they further research a topic they're convinced they're on the right side of. I know that our drug laws fail us, but I can't blame non-users for wanting to keep drugs off the streets and in the hands of people, the problems caused by the drugs themselves are real, not that many die, but a whole lot have fucked up issues caused by addiction. I know multiple addicts and you can't tell me that their life wouldn't have been better had they never tried their Drug of choice. It's changed who they are, cost them friendships, relationships, jobs, nearly everything, this happens all the time, right now their would be 1000's of addicts in our country and if you don't understand the drug war the most obvious way to fix this problem is to make the drugs less available and higher punishments so people don't even try.

But as we know, from 40 years of failed prohabition it ain't working, it's not only failing, it's getting worse, my friends who have battled meth addiction ALL dealt meth and as a result constantly had it on them and was making money off doing so. Ironically if drugs were legal I suspect they would not be addicts. But the amount of drug users in this country would no doubt increase dramatically if drugs were legalized but I believe the amount of Abusers would decline because I understand that becoming addicted is normally more complex then just really enjoying a drug (although sometimes this is also the reason).

Theres a big difference between nicotine, and caffeine and most illegal drugs, and that's the high which is virtually non-existant for those so this is why the majority of people don't catergorize them as drugs. Whilst a drug is just something that has a chemical/biological affect on the body most people think of it as something that makes you high in some way, hypocritical yes, but also psychoactive drugs are very different so perhaps they should be catergorized seperately. Oxycodone surpasses heroin abuse in Tazmania aswell if I remember correctly and is on a rise across the country. But I mean it's not strictly legal it's prescribed just a shame that so many people are using it when it has very practical medicinal use. Also on top of this tobacco costs this country way way more in medical bills then it generates in revenue so to think it's legal because it makes revenue is Absolutely false.

SO it's apparently a health issue , well what about all other things that have a negative impact on your health, like car exhaust especially diesel which has a far greater cancer risk than most drugs.
Dangerous products have been dumped on the masses without thought to their effects and were ultimately only pulled when way too many people started dying; DDT, thalidomide, fen-phen etc etc. Junk Food, Stress, Toxic pollution in virtually every water source and on and on. So why the hell is no body going to jail for these 'unhealthy' acts and why are they still so prevalent?

Obviously most drugs don't cause cancer so that first line is pointless as it doesn't mean that their aren't very real health issues from nearly all drugs. I've seen them first hand, and I've seen more people have health problems because of drugs then I have from toxic pollution or junk food and our water source in Melbourne is the highest grade in the world and yet everyone I know eats junk food and a whole lot less use drugs and yet, that IS where most of the health issues have come. I'm not saying Obesity isn't a huge problem in Australia but if everyone was taking drugs the ratio could get even worse. Also there is the instantaneous problem of people who use drugs. For the percentage of people who do have there lives damaged by there drug use, the families see the change quickly. I've seen people change dramatically for the worse within months because of drug abuse, I've never seen that from the other things you mentioned. This doesn't make it worse in the long run, but people are gonna be more shocked and upset when someone they care about's life changes so much so quick, and all they can think is if they didn't have access to this drug this would've never happened.

Remember, I am against prohibition and completely for regulation/legalization of ALL drugs but if we don't recognize the reasons for this war properly and have this mentality that politicians just have this war to control and manipulate us it'll get us no where and I simply do not see it that way. It doesn't make sense. What about the 1000's of jobs that would be created by drug legalization? What about the billions of dollars in revenue from the legal sale of drugs? What about the free up of resources, so our courts and police officers aren't wasting time doing things that aren't productive to society? I don't think there is that many fence sitters here on bluelight, I take drugs and fuck I don't ever wanna go to jail which is why I've never dealt, no I'm gonna fight against the war I believe it should be fought. With words, with education by joining the Drug Law Reform Party, by having an understanding of the topic in a way which I can preach to others based on evidence and logic.

Only once the legal and social chains have been broken can we start to break the chains of addiction and abuse.

Absolutely

PLUR

 

[JeanJM]

I think a lot of 'drug addicts' lives become a mess because getting hold of their DOC becomes more and more an issue. So everything else gets pushed aside since their only focus is supply. If addicts and I'm talking mostly opiate addicts were given their DOC they would no longer have to worry about supply and it will no longer be the number 1 focus therefore their 'lives' return to normal just dependent on a drug which some people are happy to live like that, some will choose to get 'clean' but they/we should be given the damn choice and not be treated like we are scum.

 

[oldirtybizza]

shit I just wrote a reply to your post thestudent and lost it because I tried to quote you and ended up losing the whole thing!
Like I said I didn't mean to single you out in particular , just to explain that there is no way to legitimize the current system.
We both want the same thing , Ive been part of norml for 15 years, medical initiatives abroad and like you now part of DLR ( might of seen you at their get together in chinatown ha?)

I wasn't trying to make a scientific medical statement on diesel vs pcp , more rhetoric to show the logical fallacy and hypocrisy of banning one thing because its bad for your health but not another. maybe you're a younger person and you haven't yet seen the heart attacks and lung disease which are mostly preventable caused by the legal things are society produces, some 'illegal drugs' if abused show negative effects quickly whereas the adverse effects on health from working in a coal plant or eating cheeseburgers daily will appear further down the line.

And yes I've seen the negative side of drug use, on myself and others. winding up in the ER is a lot better than winding up in the cells, But I can tell you , I've known people who have hit rock bottom and have now done well for themselves but that probably wouldn't be the case if they had been convicted and done time.

I don't believe it's all one big brother evil empire mind control conspiracy, I don't draw conclusions from false or ambiguous data , but there is more to this than just the well intentioned if misguided beliefs of politicians, although that does form a significant part of drug prohibition.
What evidence do you have to show that it is solely based on public opinion and those well intentioned if misguided beliefs of politicians?

Knowing the whole equation will certainly not take us no where as you say, there is a ton of verified true information that shows vested interests and ulterior motives to the official reasons for drug prohibition. Any serious attempts at reform will have to take things like big-pharma, doctors, police unions etc. into consideration. even so people need to be aware of the truth behind why their liberties are being taken away.
A lot of the lobbying and corruption, proxy wars etc, are to to do with the US but they spearhead this war and as allies and being part of the UN and hence bound to the many anti-drug conventions, even though you may not see it as much here drug policy in OZ and NZ are nonetheless affected.

And do you really think they record the stuff they don't have an interest in?

Mostly yes , all txt messages for instance are kept by most providers for at least 6 months and can be accessed by police with no warrant! and as PRISM has shown it's not just the terrorists/druggies being monitored.

Does it really? Cause most policeman that I know hate that they spend so much time busting people over small amounts of pot.

this cracked me up, well I'm sure If he spends so much time busting for pot , that if it were to became legal he may no longer have a job. He might hate losing that 55k+ more.

so yes even here where over 1 billion dollars is spent on enforcement (outside of courts and prisons) that's still lot of people benefiting from it, and I'm not sure all those ex cops are going to find jobs in the new legal drug economy you described.

Well it's good to know there are peeps here on BL who really want to see this change happen, there really should be a Drug Reform forum on here.

time to go and foam at the mouth, serially masturbate and rob people to fulfill the perceived notion of a drug user.