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Which drug causes the most brain damage?

I find MDMA to be EXTREMELY worse for the brain than methamphetamine abuse, when the two are being used with similar frequency and intensity.


Dopamine regenerates rather quickly, while serotonin can take years to up-regulate itself after heavy abuse. Serotonin is also much more important to overall body function than dopamine is, so that would be why I consider it to be a much worse drug to abuse than meth is.
 
Delphinia said:
alcohol abuse takes one hell of a toll on the brain
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Chronic alcoholism can lead to Korsakov (or Wernicke, Wernicke-Korsakov) encefalitis, which is a very non-fun condition and a definitive sign of extensive brain damage. It beats MDMA, even if you must consider long term abusers. Also, delirium tremens.
 
Well im living with years of anxiety and ptsd from MDMA but i did eat that shit like candy as often as possible. Meth seems to have no affect on me in terms of signs like anxiety and so forth but im sure you cant sense the damage here until later. Also done coke for 8 years and have not noticed any negative effects.
 
Going by my experiences with people I've known the past thirty years (I'm 49 now). Long term use of LSD, meth, PCP can cause brain damage that is the bad trip that never ends. But this is with chronic use, but these chemicals are inconsistant so one bad dose can cause irrepairable damage. Also, long term heavy alcohol abuse actually shrinks brain matter and a number of health problems will arise. I've had binges with xanax and cannot remember events, days and things I did but thankfully I'm okay now.
 
blight12 said:
Well im living with years of anxiety and ptsd from MDMA but i did eat that shit like candy as often as possible.
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What exactly makes you think you have PTSD from MDMA? I'm curious to know more if you don't mind sharing, especially since MDMA has been studied as an effective treatment for PTSD. I've seen chronic MDMA use cause depression in people, but never PTSD before.
 
Crystal meth, currently.

Benzodiazepines like Xanax may be addictive, and can take more than a year to wean off, but they aren't known to cause permanent damage.
 
Um the answer is quite obvious if you have done even a little reading or experience with either. MDMA is the top choice, for how quickly it can damage your brain compared to other drugs. So MDMA is answer number one, and methamphetamine takes place for the 2nd. Because meth is so much more addictive it can be more damaging because people will take it every day where as MDMA most people know to space it out. But strictly speaking as a single dose, MDMA tops all other recreational drugs for neurotoxic damage based off numerous studies and personal experience. Benzos and tranqs make you dumber while you are on them but i doubt it is the most damaging drug, they do have some serious withdrawal though.

As for cocaine i wouldn't say it is completely non neurotoxic, if you are doing a high amount in a short period of time i am sure it is at least causing a little damage. It is a re up take inhibitor though not a releaser, and those are known to be a little less damaging to the brain. Where as MDMA and Meth are both potent releasers of many neurotransmitters causing cells to deal with a lot of stress and there fore damaging the axons for the long term.
 
most the of the studies done on mdma during the 80s was actually methamphetamine so the results are government propaganda to ban it. I'm tired of seeing these myths about brain damage linked to psychedelics and mdma usage... granted yes for mdma abuse baseline serotonin levels do diminish but can and do recover over time.
 
F1n1shed said:
Um the answer is quite obvious if you have done even a little reading or experience with either. MDMA is the top choice, for how quickly it can damage your brain compared to other drugs.
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I definitely would NOT say MDMA is the drug that is most damaging to the brain, whether you go by chronic use or single use. It's not healthy but there are plenty of more damaging drugs out there.

Serotonin101 said:
most the of the studies done on mdma during the 80s was actually methamphetamine so the results are government propaganda to ban it. I'm tired of seeing these myths about brain damage linked to psychedelics and mdma usage... granted yes for mdma abuse baseline serotonin levels do diminish but can and do recover over time.
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Erowid has compiled some interesting studies and stuff on the issue of MDMA and neurotoxicity:
Erowid - MDMA Neurtoxicity

One of the most famous studies on MDMA and brain damage, a 2002 study funded by the US NIDA, was widely touted as proving that MDMA caused serious dopaminergic neurotoxicity. The paper, entitled "Severe Dopaminergic Neurotoxicity in Primates After a Common Recreational Dose Regimen of MDMA ('Ecstasy')" was later retracted after it became clear that the monkeys had in fact been injected not with MDMA, but with extremely high doses of methamphetamine. And ridiculous claims by anti-drug groups that MDMA rots your spine etc have not helped the public perception either. As for psychedelics, some of the studies that have found them damaging have been at 1000s of times the normal human dose, so are irrelevant. You can make anything look bad with a biased study. It's important to do one's own research and look at the actual studies (and who is paying for them) instead of the media's conclusions about what they say.
 
Swimmingdancer said:
I definitely would NOT say MDMA is the drug that is most damaging to the brain, whether you go by chronic use or single use. It's not healthy but there are plenty of more damaging drugs out there.



Erowid has compiled some interesting studies and stuff on the issue of MDMA and neurotoxicity:
Erowid - MDMA Neurtoxicity

One of the most famous studies on MDMA and brain damage, a 2002 study funded by the US NIDA, was widely touted as proving that MDMA caused serious dopaminergic neurotoxicity. The paper, entitled "Severe Dopaminergic Neurotoxicity in Primates After a Common Recreational Dose Regimen of MDMA ('Ecstasy')" was later retracted after it became clear that the monkeys had in fact been injected not with MDMA, but with extremely high doses of methamphetamine. And ridiculous claims by anti-drug groups that MDMA rots your spine etc have not helped the public perception either. As for psychedelics, some of the studies that have found them damaging have been at 1000s of times the normal human dose, so are irrelevant. You can make anything look bad with a biased study. It's important to do one's own research and look at the actual studies (and who is paying for them) instead of the media's conclusions about what they say.
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thank you for looking that up and backing me on that. true harm reduction is accurate information.
 
Serotonin101 said:
thank you for looking that up and backing me on that. true harm reduction is accurate information.
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No problem :)

The guy that did those bogus studies, Dr. George Ricaurte, is one of the people who did the original studies for the DEA in the 80's in order to get MDMA outlawed in the US. I would not trust any of his work. NIDA still continues to fund his studies. I do not trust any studies funded by them, I have seen some crazy studies and then I go to see who paid for the study and sure enough, it's NIDA.

More info on MDMA:

I'm not saying that MDMA is perfectly safe, but it is nowhere near the most brain damaging or neurotoxic drug. (*Note: what is sold as MDMA may contain other drugs, so that is something to be aware of). Considering how many people use MDMA, serious acute (immediate) adverse/toxic effects actually seem quite rare. Researchers say as far as risk of acute toxicity MDMA appears similar to other oral stimulants. The risks associated with long-term use are more difficult to assess. Studies in animals have shown that chronic and/or high-dose MDMA use can produce long-lasting decreases in serotonin activity, (however lasting behavioural changes in the animals have seldom been detected). Anecdotal reports and surveys of MDMA users confirm it's likely that these serotonergic changes can also occur in humans. Some people may feel depressed for example. But many legal prescription drugs cause similar serotonergic changes. Studies comparing MDMA users and nonusers have not detected clinically significant decreases in cognitive function. It's important to note that some people may be more sensitive to adverse effects than others and that the possibility of things like damage that only becomes apparent when you get old have not been studied. I have not seen any research that supports the idea that MDMA actually kills brain cells, or is damaging in moderate infrequent use. If anyone has links to some research that is not funded by the US govt that says otherwise please feel free to correct me.
 
^^I'm just going on how i personally felt after abusing mdma. I've basically abused every drug and MDMA by far had me feeling the most depressed, anxious, and overall "damaged." However I took like 50 pills in 3 days :/
 
I think ecstasy pills are extremely damaging when used chronically ive know more than one person who after chronic thizzle abuse now performs at a severely more retarded state than previous brain function, speech impairment, slow functioning cognition, delayed reaction time, nonsensical speech patterns, and severe memory loss were all symptoms of a particular individual i can recall.

After no one knowing where the guy disappeared to for a couple weeks he suddenly showed up back around town and what seemed to have happened was he was picked on the side of the freeway in l.a. trying to sell bags of weed. The lapd confiscated his tree and had him transported back up to the bay to be held for a psych evaluation. But the guys just not right, supposedly, although i have no verifiable confirmation of this, he was given two years to live at one point due to the severe side effects of his use. (Keep in mind these were street pills supplied by the wah ching know to have cuts in them often meth.)
 
Personally out of the common recreational drugs I believe that benzo's are the worst for your brain in the long run followed by alcohol.
 
Swimmingdancer said:
I definitely would NOT say MDMA is the drug that is most damaging to the brain, whether you go by chronic use or single use. It's not healthy but there are plenty of more damaging drugs out there.



Erowid has compiled some interesting studies and stuff on the issue of MDMA and neurotoxicity:
Erowid - MDMA Neurtoxicity

One of the most famous studies on MDMA and brain damage, a 2002 study funded by the US NIDA, was widely touted as proving that MDMA caused serious dopaminergic neurotoxicity. The paper, entitled "Severe Dopaminergic Neurotoxicity in Primates After a Common Recreational Dose Regimen of MDMA ('Ecstasy')" was later retracted after it became clear that the monkeys had in fact been injected not with MDMA, but with extremely high doses of methamphetamine. And ridiculous claims by anti-drug groups that MDMA rots your spine etc have not helped the public perception either. As for psychedelics, some of the studies that have found them damaging have been at 1000s of times the normal human dose, so are irrelevant. You can make anything look bad with a biased study. It's important to do one's own research and look at the actual studies (and who is paying for them) instead of the media's conclusions about what they say.
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I don't see how one famously misguided study makes MDMA a safer drug to use..?


There have been many studies that say MDMA is safe... but they all are talking about with ONE use at a reasonable dose in a completely safe environment. By the very nature that MDMA works by, this is not very damaging. But when you keep taking more and more MDMA without giving your brain the time it needs to recover the lost serotonin you can only get to lower and lower 5-HT levels and can only do more damage as time progresses.


I mean, which would you rather binge on for a week... alcohol, meth, or MDMA? The first two would fuck you up sure, but people still do it all the time and can get away with it. MDMA? Not so much...





I do agree with you that most of the studies on MDMA are biased in some way, however. Either to try and prove that it's horrible, or to make it seem like a completely safe drug.

Go into ED and read the 2 year recovery thread... it's full of people sharing their stories of AWFUL comedowns lasting for years and the number of personality disorders that come inherently with low serotonin levels. I really haven't seen any drug that can cause as much pain as full out depersonalization/derealization
 
Even if the studies by ricuarte were actually meth, that doesn't mean mdma cant do the same with your serotonin man. They work similarly, Meth causes a surge of dopamine to be released where MDMA causes a big surge of serotonin to be released. They both also release nor epinephrine and other neuro transmitters but those are the primary ones. I've seen the damage it can do personally man and i would take no more than 3 doses in a night and space it out. You guys are full of your selves , i literally became dumber in many different areas of study. Not to mention emotionally dumber full of depression, anxiety ,regret etc. Not to mention the dissociation and depersonalization it left me with. If large doses of meth destroy dopamine neurons, large or even medium doses of mdma damage serotonin neurons which are more delicate. Just put 1 and 1 together, i rest my case.
 
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