Opioids O-Desmethyltramadol

[mydrugbuddy]

I think my naivety with opiates is beginning to tell on me now. Although i did do a reasonable amount of background reading on ODT i dont think i heeded the warnings about physical withdrawls quite seriously enough. For me, in some ways the ODT experience felt simillar to getting stoned on pot, and only now am i beginning to appreciate that ive been taking the stuff too lightly.

First time stopping after about 3 weeks of dosing around 150 mg orally more or less daily, i only got the gentlest & mildest of withdrawls, if thats even what it was. Because the withdrawl was so mild first time i only stopped for about 5 days and then went on another binge of consecutive evening use for about a week i think. This time round though the stuff is "kicking my butt" quite a bit harder on withdrawl. Its becoming obvious that i havent really thought it through or planned the withdrawl properly. Its been fucking rough getting through the whole day at work without any, and ive had more severe flu-like symptoms this time - say about a 6 out of 10 on the severity scale, compared to a 3 out of 10 the first time.

Maybe i was possibly about 1/2, or 1/3 or 1/4 (i dont really know) of the way through withdrawl and should have stuck at it. But i have orally dosed 150 mg again this evening and am feeling far better and pretty good again right now.

It seems i have got to the stage now where trying to "ride it out" all day until the evening is becoming tough. So i am going to try 50 mg oral doses 2 or 3 times a day or something in that region, and then tapering down from there, with the hope that will be effective for keeping the withdrawls at bay ?

I know i have said stuff like this before on here, but i think this time round i am properly "learning the lesson" and once i get back to normal, will absolutely have to rigidly stick to a once a week only schedule or something like that. Can the experienced opiate users advise that if a once a week schedule can be successfully adhered to, would there be any bad withdrawls from such a schedule ?

 

[Orphine_Child]

hey there.....

ive got a question about safety and IVing o-destram.

i know that IVing RCs is basically dumb. but after all im trying to take on this topic with ratio....
my worst worry is that the cooks just ****** tramadol by using pyridine.

pyridine is a b*tch *ss chemical that, afaik makes you sterile.
though i know that my DNA is crap and i dont want to have children, i dont wanna take any chances. it also does other damage to your body.

theres another way thats propably easier and a lot less toxic.

i thought about checking that stuff out via wet-chemistry but i would have to take it to my old school (parmacy-assistants), and well.... bad idea.
i could also check out a graph of an HPLC, but you dont know if they did cook only that batch with care...

id be happy to hear your opinions, because i fear im definitely doing that stuff again, because im able to prepare a totally sterile, pharmacy-grade solution.... good stuff also.

 

[erlenmeyer]

@mydrugbuddy and all others
I feel for you there. I have experience with tramadol and dhc, both ended up as daily habits, but I still kicked them pretty much without effort. Withdrawals lasted 3 or 4 days and I'd go from slightly jittery to completely normal on the last day. But this one turned out to be a different kind of beast, even though of course I had researched it and read how it apparently was pretty mild in terms of withdrawals. Well, I'm not so lucky here now, must be through the worst (it's been one week, granted, I tried tapering first but then just lost patience and went cold turkey. What I experienced was a definite break in the type of symptoms after those 3 or 4 days. The familiar, psychological burden vanished and was replaced by mostly bodily symptoms of ice cold extremities, restlessness and tachykardia. I can't tell what's worse but that really caught me off guard, and from now on I'll do anything not to be caught up in that kind of habit again. I started off with a casual 70mg two months ago which turned into 300mg, split into two daily doses. Then, for the last month I went through 2 or 3 partial withdrawals which I couldn't finish due to job reasons (which of course sucked badly, and I think played a major role in nurturing the kind of elongated withdrawals I'm going through now. I'm no specialist in pharmacology, but still figure that the second set of symptoms must be somehow mediated via an excess of norepinephrine. So today I started taking 4 x 150µg of clonidine a day, which seems to alleviate the jitteriness but is possibly the reason I feel like an 80 year old now in terms of drive and general stamina.
Please, anyone experienced in the whole matter, could you confirm the validity of my dosing regimen and tell me for how much longer I can expect to feel those symptoms plus the best way to taper off (the clonidine, that is)
All the best,
erlenmeyer

 

[Diloadid]

Can O-Desmethyltramadol be used via IV / If so is it any good when IVed ?

I've been reading thru this thread for a while. Lol. I'm curious as well.

 

[Kronos]

Yeah you can but its no better than oral. Though i've got a nice rush once or twice when IVing (but usually not), mighta just been WD relief though

 

[Hooddood78]

Hi,

I´m quite new in forum and just wondering how is this O-DM discovered and is there pure O-DM available in pharmacetical stores or do you have to make it somehow by your self? At least I haven´t come across with this stuff as pure, just the tramal itself. We don´t have this in my homecountry but we are like in a iceage what comes to treating pain anyway regarding doctors policy and/or the supply of different opioids? We have just couple strong ones in dgugstores and bube/tramal/codeine with some other stuff like paracetamol.

I use tramal ti treat my pain from my neuropathic desease. That´s why I´m of course interested anything that comes to tramal or stuff along with it.

-Hooddood78

 

[JJ-180]

ODT withdrawal,day 4,-ran out on Weds evening-not nice.Work tomoz.Think I'll make it, but I don't expect it to be fun. It's going to be a lot harder to source in the UK from now on, bring on the next Rc opioid under the radar, Can't wait to see what I can get hooked on next.........

 

[knock]

ODT withdrawal,day 4,-ran out on Weds evening-not nice.Work tomoz.Think I'll make it, but I don't expect it to be fun. It's going to be a lot harder to source in the UK from now on, bring on the next Rc opioid under the radar, Can't wait to see what I can get hooked on next.........

What is your W/D like? How long after last dose did it kick in? I last had a proper dose (70mg) on Friday afternoon. I woke late on Saturday morning with restlessness throughout my body. I took about 30mg to alleviate it. I again woke late this morning with restlessness, but not so bad, and I haven't taken any o-dt today. I have taken some camfetamine and MPA though. Anyway I feel fine now!

I think I've managed to avoid serious w/ds by keeping my doses fairly low, i.e. typically 70mg a day, with the occasional 100mg+ dose. But maybe I'm kidding myself and they will kick in tomorrow. If I don't dose tonight.

 

[erlenmeyer]

ODT withdrawal,day 4,-ran out on Weds evening-not nice.Work tomoz.Think I'll make it, but I don't expect it to be fun. It's going to be a lot harder to source in the UK from now on, bring on the next Rc opioid under the radar, Can't wait to see what I can get hooked on next.........

I managed to snatch the last 4x250mg from a well known supplier of RC's . Eventually, most of it was flushed down the toilet cause tapering off didn't really work for me. Though I reckon being close to the end of my WD tunnel after 7 days. Clonidine has helped a lot so far. Let's hope that tomorrow will be my D-Day.
Also, I think that you'll be fine as long as your habit wasn't too extreme. But I got to say that withdrawals from a serious Tramadol habit (which it basically boils down to) can be a nasty thing (as for myself). The consensus seems to exist across the forums...

 

[JJ-180]

Tapering on this compound really doesn't seem to work. My w/d was extremely unpleasant(projectile green effluvium from both ends!) and not something I'm in a hurry to repeat,despite my flippant comments above. It was VERY acute,seriously disabling for about 48 hours but passes fairly quickly. The residual seems to be extreme lethargy and demotivation. I was using nearly a gram a day by the end though! oh, and Erlenmeyer,you flask, you had my last bloody gram!( Nah, not really-welcome to the wonderful world of Bluelight, mate).

 

[knock]

I was using nearly a gram a day by the end though!

Ah!

How long after last dose did w/ds take to kick in? Sounds horrible by the way, hope you're feeling a lot better.

 

[JJ-180]

I woke up about 10.00 am on thursday drenched in sweat and stinking and that was basically it for the next 48 hours:I feel much better thanks, just tired and listless. And my legs ache like a geriatric. I actually made it into work too, but I think an early finish could be called for.......To be fair, it does sound like I was using a LOT more ODT than most people.

 

[knock]

I woke up about 10.00 am on thursday drenched in sweat and stinking and that was basically it for the next 48 hours:I feel much better thanks, just tired and listless. And my legs ache like a geriatric. I actually made it into work too, but I think an early finish could be called for.......To be fair, it does sound like I was using a LOT more ODT than most people.

Aye, I think a gram a day is hammering it So w/ds came overnight after you ran out? Pretty quick then.

 

[erlenmeyer]

...I feel much better thanks, just tired and listless. And my legs ache like a geriatric.

That's pretty much where I'm at now. I can't wait for that sudden breakthrough (that's how I used to experience it with DHC and Tramadol) back into feeling normal again. It's gonna happen today, I know it . That should provide a buzz in itself, no need for opiates there! Also, I shall now admit to myself that I was doing more like 600 mgs daily towards the end, it was just escalating. It really makes a huge difference whether you have blistered pills or access to pure powder. Yes and as you said, the nasty part is waking up into acute withdrawals. That's when you really know it's time to kick it...
Now to those skimming through the posts, I just like to point out again that it's been 8 days since I quit, and only now do I think it's pretty much over.

 

[JJ-180]

I agree, I'm fully expecting it to be at least a week before any real sense of normality returns. Waking up in acute withdrawal(around 10+ hrs after my last dose) was indeed nasty,but not nearly as nasty as staying awake through 48 hrs of rabid "unpleasantness"-let's just say I'm gonna have to buy a new duvet.....Etizolam at 6hrly intervals helped somewhat, and a few diazepam took the edge off the worst of the horrors/anxiety I felt overwhelmed by, on day 3, but it's not a quick 2 or 3 day w/d really- it's deffo more than a few sniffles and a runny nose! The concern I have now is about what someone earlier in this thread described as "baseline alterations". The world seems so much easier to handle on opiates/opioids, all those sharp edges that life has disappear with a single dose! Readapting to engaging in the world without those baseline alterations is probably going to be the most insidious problem. Work today is an ordeal, but can be endured(Mondays are never going to be my favourite day). A friend has given me 25gr good red vein Kratom, so for a little relief from the aches and cramps, when I shuffle home I may treat myself to 10 or so grams of that. What I don't want to do is merely substitute one pathology for another. I want to thank the members of this community for their concern and advice. Thanks guys, you wouldn't believe how much it helps to know I'm not the only idiot in the world to screw up on this gear!

 

[knock]

The world seems so much easier to handle on opiates/opioids, all those sharp edges that life has disappear with a single dose! Readapting to engaging in the world without those baseline alterations is probably going to be the most insidious problem. Work today is an ordeal, but can be endured(Mondays are never going to be my favourite day). A friend has given me 25gr good red vein Kratom, so for a little relief from the aches and cramps, when I shuffle home I may treat myself to 10 or so grams of that. What I don't want to do is merely substitute one pathology for another. I want to thank the members of this community for their concern and advice. Thanks guys, you wouldn't believe how much it helps to know I'm not the only idiot in the world to screw up on this gear!

I totally agree with you about the positive effects, they really are good. All I want to say to you is I've been benefiting from those positive effects and I've only been taking about 70mg a day, sometimes less, with the occasional 100mg+ "binge", and the w/ds from this regime, which I've been doing for months, seem extremely manageable, i.e. a little bit restlessness, a slightly runny nose, gone in a couple of days. Just my advice if you're going to get back into opioids/opiates, keep regular doses to the minimum you need to get the positive effects and you can still treat yourself to the odd binge. (I don't know if this advice is directly applicable to other opis but it makes sense that it would be).

I can't really understand how you were doing 1 gram a day! It has a half life of 9 hours and 100mg+ makes me puke! If you were spreading your doses out evenly, you were effectively going around with around 300mg in your system constantly (that might be a slight overestimate but not far off). I've never dosed that high, I nod like mad at doses over 150mg.

Did you just keep pushing your tolerance up? Were you using an efficient ROA (plugging!)? If you were sniffing it might have been worth doing what I discovered works amazingly for ketamine, snort some water before snorting your drug, the absorption is much more rapid and complete, blew me away.

Don't mean to come across as lecturing at all, just want to understand and share information and thoughts

 

[JJ-180]

Actually it was about 200+mg four times a day, but your estimate is not far off.Strangely, I only really nodded out right at the end of the day, the rest of the time I felt deceptively functional.My ROA was always oral,so maybe that makes a difference,but I think I'm just a bit of a hard-head with most drugs. And don't worry about lecturing me- I heard a lot worse from my lady over the weekend!

 

[knock]

Well I think oral is pretty much as effective as plugged, just takes forever to hit. Yeah you must just have a fucker of a tolerance! Bet you enjoyed her lecture in the middle of your w/ds! They like to kick us when we're down

 

[erlenmeyer]

I totally agree with you about the positive effects, they really are good. All I want to say to you is I've been benefiting from those positive effects and I've only been taking about 70mg a day, sometimes less, with the occasional 100mg+ "binge", and the w/ds from this regime, which I've been doing for months, seem extremely manageable, i.e. a little bit restlessness, a slightly runny nose, gone in a couple of days. Just my advice if you're going to get back into opioids/opiates, keep regular doses to the minimum you need to get the positive effects and you can still treat yourself to the odd binge. (I don't know if this advice is directly applicable to other opis but it makes sense that it would be).

I haven't read through the whole thread but from what I understand this is your first encounter with an opioid drug (correct me if I'm wrong). Opioid tolerance is really an insidious thing in how it creeps up on you. There seem to be different overlapping mechanisms that cause short and long term tolerances. Now if you stop completely for a while, it'll probably be enough of a break to start from your "opioid naive dose", but you'll find that the intervals in which your body adapts to higher dose, they get shorter and shorter with every subsequent habit (I've had 3 or 4 so far, over the course of about 2.5 years). I can vividly remember my first "run". I suffered from fibromyalgia and got a prescription for Tramadol, the doctors were very casual about it. I immediately realized that it had a life of its own in terms of euphoric/antidepressant effects, so it was natural for me to eventually end up dosing twice daily. It took about 4 months until I reached a tolerance of 150mg per dose and it was during the same time when I realized that my increasing aches and bad mood upon waking up were actually withdrawal symptoms (really bright I know , but it shows how people don't start out with the intention to get physically dependent, it can just eventually happen.) Don't get me wrong, I've spent the last 70% of these last 2.5 years opiate free, but that's only because I finally figured out the tolerance pattern and that I couldn't allow myself a next run of 4 months. Physical dependance would now build after a single month or so. I think looking at the long term, you would probably have to limit yourself to twice a week dosing in order to avoid the tolerance thing I've written about so far.
Having said that, I still reckon opiates would truly be "God's own medicine", if humanity could only fix the tolerance issue...%)

 

[knock]

I haven't read through the whole thread but from what I understand this is your first encounter with an opioid drug (correct me if I'm wrong). Opioid tolerance is really an insidious thing in how it creeps up on you. There seem to be different overlapping mechanisms that cause short and long term tolerances. Now if you stop completely for a while, it'll probably be enough of a break to start from your "opioid naive dose", but you'll find that the intervals in which your body adapts to higher dose, they get shorter and shorter with every subsequent habit (I've had 3 or 4 so far, over the course of about 2.5 years). I can vividly remember my first "run". I suffered from fibromyalgia and got a prescription for Tramadol, the doctors were very casual about it. I immediately realized that it had a life of its own in terms of euphoric/antidepressant effects, so it was natural for me to eventually end up dosing twice daily. It took about 4 months until I reached a tolerance of 150mg per dose and it was during the same time when I realized that my increasing aches and bad mood upon waking up were actually withdrawal symptoms (really bright I know , but it shows how people don't start out with the intention to get physically dependent, it can just eventually happen.) Don't get me wrong, I've spent the last 70% of these last 2.5 years opiate free, but that's only because I finally figured out the tolerance pattern and that I couldn't allow myself a next run of 4 months. Physical dependance would now build after a single month or so. I think looking at the long term, you would probably have to limit yourself to twice a week dosing in order to avoid the tolerance thing I've written about so far.
Having said that, I still reckon opiates would truly be "God's own medicine", if humanity could only fix the tolerance issue...%)

Thanks for your concern!

Yes you're right this is my first "serious" encounter with this class of drug. Your words of wisdom are duly noted. Over the course of the months I've been taking this I have only noticed a small increase in tolerance, it maybe takes only 20% more now to get to where I want and I still find really small doses (35-40mg) beneficial. But yeah I'll be cautious.

God's own medicine - how true! At low doses, it completely erases any negativity, puts a spring in my step and leaves me completely functional, even super-functional. Very seductive.

And then with higher doses, which I indulge in only rarely, the nodding state is a wonderful blissful struggle and I've been treated to OEVs I wasn't expecting too.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I've been taking various dissociatives regularly too, which reportedly helps to keep opiate tolerance down somehow.