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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Where does E in NewZealand come from?

Re: Ease: I would take MattPsy's word on this one. Assuming he is who I think he is, he probably has a better idea about this than anyone ;). Anecdotal evidence suggests that Ease is similar to a mellow dose of MDMA. I haven't taken it myself though.

As regards BZP/TMFPP vs MDMA. I prefer MDMA. If I was in the UK, I would take MDMA any day of the week in preference to BZP/TMFPP. But in NZ, I know that I can buy BZP/TMFPP products, have a good, safe, legal night out, for probably a third of the cost of a pill. And I know what I'm getting. No chance of buying a dud pill and getting nothing for my money. I think that perspective is reasonably widespread.

Regarding manufacture in NZ: in my research [see sig], I don't remember finding any media coverage of busts of MDMA labs. That contrasts to extensive coverage of busts of P labs. It's possible that I missed the media coverage; equally possible that the cops have missed all the labs. But given that the chemicals to manufacture MDMA are harder to come by than those needed to make meth, I think it's likely that there aren't many, if any, MDMA labs here.

Certainly, the usage of ecstasy in this country is not high. Stats show that something like 60% of the people who use ecstasy only use it 1-2 times/year. So one might assume that they are otherwise using BZP/TMFPP. [source: ilkins C, Reilly J, Rose E, Roy D, Pledger M, Lee A (2004) The Socio-Economic Imapct of Amphetamine Type Stimulants in New Zealand: Final Report].
 
They come from my mate steve, he smuggles them using a sheep as a mule. He could just as easily do it by ship but he insist on using the sheep.
 
phase_dancer said:
Slightly off topic but as an ex kiwi, I'm interested in hearing some estimates from those who take MDMA in preference to the legal piperazines.

What sort of percentage of those attending clubs and raves etc actually prefer MDMA over the legals? Supporters of BZP and TFMPP tend to claim most people prefer the legals but that sort of surprises me.

Of those clubbers, ravers doofers etc who do prefer MDMA, what percentage are usually on the drug when they're partying? (as opposed to those who would be if they could obtain it)

What I'm wondering is whether there simply isn't enough of a market to make it worthwhile for crime bosses to produce MDMA locally.
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'herbal pills' are very popular now than they have ever been, since you can buy them from any gas station, dairy+supermarket, herbal specialists/clubs. I also found MDMA dealers to have reduced price due to most people buying herbals, and alot of the new BZP pills now contain a 'recovery pack' which is usually 2 - 3 pills containing high dosage of 5htp+others like st johns wart etc. Its now common to go to a club in NZ and openly see people drop herbals, so its safer to put your MDMA in an old BZP/herbal tin! lol, lil off topic, a mate was stopped by police from driving early hours in the morning, he opened his wallet forgot he had 3 pills in a baggy with drivers licence, police asked what they were, and he just said 'herbals', police didnt think anything better.. I found with my mates I hang with, the 'MDMA purists', now take both, or sometimes MDMA on a friday night, recover, then herbals on a saturday night, then 5htp or GBL/GHB sunday..

The MDMA produced in Napier was already distributed/pressed, what police found was high quality MDMA crystals, at the time there was also alot of MDMA powder circulating bottom end of north island/hawkesbay.

**People say 'herbal' cos thats the slang name we all say for BZP/TFMPP pills**, typical senario 'im on erbals an off my pickle...' teehee..
 
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Nobodys knows where exactly there pills are coming from unless they imported them personaly. So to answer your question, noone can answer your question.
 
Oh you should just ask the mongrel mob, i hear they have the good pillsover there :p

The meth epidemic from what i hear is pretty big, but yeah, no doubt there would be several clandestine labs operating over there... On the other hand, whats to say people are getting them posted from australia, i'm assuming it wouldnt be overly difficult to aquire them at AU prices in small amounts.
 
zaineaol.nu said:
Oh you should just ask the mongrel mob, i hear they have the good pillsover there :p

The meth epidemic from what i hear is pretty big, but yeah, no doubt there would be several clandestine labs operating over there... On the other hand, whats to say people are getting them posted from australia, i'm assuming it wouldnt be overly difficult to aquire them at AU prices in small amounts.
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Mongrel Mob dont source pills, only methamphetamine/ice and weed/cannabis oil (made with isopropyl or butane method, then sold in capsules) teehee.. Gangs are more expensive than drug syndicates.
 
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^^ummm dude, the first line of that last post was a joke. i don't even live in NZ anymore (altho i lived in Wainuiomata, Lower Hutt, Tawa, and Rotorua for some time) the time whilst i was there i wasnt using any hard drugs either lol.

I'd have no clue where to source pills rofl
 
pkt said:
Nobodys knows where exactly there pills are coming from unless they imported them personaly. So to answer your question, noone can answer your question.
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What a stupid thing to say. 8)
Far starters, it's oxymoronic - it's quite possible that someone on this board has imported pills, so there could be someone in a position to answer the quesiton according to your stipulations.
Secondly, if someone imported a handful of pills up their bum from, say, Canada, and if they were the only people who could answer the question according to your stipulation, then the only answer they could give is that pills come from Canada. So the answer given would, in all likelihood, be false.
Thirdly, while we should maintain a healthy distrust of police and customs, I think they're in a pretty good position to know where the majority of our pills are coming from. Now, just because customs don't import the pills themselves, does that mean that they cannot tell the public where, according to their information (which is part of a global intelligence network), the source of NZ's pill imports?
According to your logic, it would seem not.
In fact, according to your logic, no one can answer anything unless they've had direct personal experience in the subject.
I hope no one tells our teachers or academics this - they've wasted their whole lives learning about things that, according to you, they can't answer. Statements like yours stand in the way of a healthy discourse of information. Please think again.
 
thanks Sim0n and person
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I'd imagine TV and Radio advertising of bzp and tfmpp are not allowed? If so, then I assume it's only print media [?] and word of mouth that has fostered user awareness of the safety element associated with the legal drugs i.e. known entity, no impurities etc.

However, it seems that MDMA use has, at least partly, been reduced through the availability of the legal "equivalent". I believe that may have been due to the early, somewhat intervening aspect of permitting the sale of the piperazines. It was perhaps a very appropriate time, rather than say if it occurred 2-3 years later when an MDMA market had become more firmly established. The MDMA market was certainly not, at the time, as established as it was in Aus (from what I was told by kiwi travellers). This is in contrast to the P scene which was in NZ at the time.

Perhaps the legal BZP alternative has not affected the popularity of P in the same way, or am I wrong? Then again, there are enough scare stories in past media reports to scare some people. A couple of my kiwi friends used to like the odd bit of whizz (powder), but after tragedy struck close to home - with P being a considered factor- they are both off the stuff and have become very anti-meth themselves, despite their own encounters with the drug having no real consequences.

It's interesting to compare where both countries are now at in terms of their respective general policies on the taking of recreational drugs. With the Aus federal and state leaders intent on trying to stop recreational drug taking altogether, there's little foreseeable chance of Australia allowing the sale and marketing of these "safer alternatives".
 
You're right that there's no TV/radio advertising (as far as I know). Certainly there are print ads, but they tend to be subtle (alternative/free magazines rather than daily newspapers). The pills are promoted very heavily in dairies and similar shops, though.

The strange thing is that BZP/TMFPP is meant as a substitute for meth/speed, not for MDMA. But it seems that it is more prevalent among people who wouldn't (or might not) take P anyway. (P is apparently quite popular in small towns, rural areas, areas with a relatively high Maori population - places that you wouldn't associate with dance culture and ecstasy use).

I think you're right that the MDMA culture didn't get established - or, rather, that people don't see it as a regular thing but as something to do on a special occasion. Another factor might be that there was a concerted harm reduction campaign that the government, club owners, and ravers/club-goers all supported. Possibly because MDMA became popular here later than elsewhere, we had the chance to learn from others' mistakes. Drug users here (in my experience) tend to understand the health issues quite well. The govt has some really good harm reduction guides, and of course we've had BZP/TMFPP promoted as a safer alternative. As a result, after 3 ecstasy-related deaths in a couple of years, there haven't been any for the past 3 or 4 years.

The good thing is that the government specifically states that harm reduction is the primary goal - and that health/harm reduction considerations trump law enforcement ones when they develop policy. Which is pretty cool. That said, they have introduced harsher penalties for a lot of drug offences, and the continued legality of BZP/TMFPP is not guaranteed. The Minister responsible for drug policy is very socially conservative and would happily ban most drugs (alcohol included) if he could. The only reason BZP/TMFPP is still legal is that his advisors have indicated that there's no evidence that the drugs are harmful. If he gets any such evidence, they could very well be banned.

As for P: it's a drug that seems to scare even drug users. People I know who will happily take MDMA or ketamine or LSD or speed will not go near P. There is also a very heavy media campaign against it.
 
For the question on the sources of nz beans I wouldn't have a clue but a fair number of them are not what they are supposed to be, ie they are adultered crap .

And SimOn I think your looking at the Nz govt and their stated goals of "harm reduction" through rose tinted spec's.

This is the govt who for two consecutive terms have stitched up a coalition deal with P.dunne and U.f, with U.f's bottem line non-negotiable policy being " no change to cannabis laws."

Andersons ( our drug czar) advisors, the supposedly expert advisory commitee on drugs (e.a.c.d) have two police ( or police and justice ) representatives on the committee. It is supposed to be a open process and based on science and medicene and health, yet when a report came back advising on a downwards classification of Lsd from a class A drug to a class B the police opposed the recommendations ..... a second report was done, with pages censored/blacked out and they recommended Lsd stayed class A.

Nz govt may say it's for harm minimisation ( even when the results such as our meth glut and market penetraion ) indicate harm maximisation is taking place.

Also how did you arrive at your figure of 3 E deaths in NZ over 4 years ???????. I remember 1 death regarding a girl in Auckland who drank to much water while on E , bzp dries my mouth out and makes you want to drink a lot,is the same thing possible on bzp ??????.
 
pillsandthrills said:
Funny over here in the UK, you meet so many people who say how much better the pills are back home.
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I am from Oz, but I totally agree that in general the pills here at home are stronger than the pills in the UK. On the other hand, I could have 3 times as many for the same price. I once had 5 pills in a night in London, where i wouldn't even think of doing that here.
 
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