What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[G_Chem]

Are these observations of friends where you have a good idea of how frequently they are using, or more general observations of strangers? The absence of empathogenic effects and a shortened duration are some of the first signs of the loss of magic and the development of a tolerance. New users are especially likely to lack the knowledge of reasonable breaks and to abuse MDMA until they lose enough effects (and get nasty enough comedowns) to stop.

Well the two other people were my girl who’ve I’ve been with and rolling with since I was 19, and my brother who I’m also very familiar with.

My group of people is close friends and family all of which is rather versed, most have respected the substance including myself. I can confidently say I roll just as hard as I did when I was a kid, zero magic loss.

We were also on all the same substances/batches.

And my observations regarding shortened duration, sleepy effect, etc isn’t what I personally experience (minus that G6) it’s what I hear all the time on Reddit.

I even asked on reddit once what people though MDMA duration to be and many stated 2-3 hours.

-GC

 

[TripSitterNZ]

earlier this year when i took half a pill so 120 mg of mdma at 8 pm and a quarter booster at the hour mark i was feeling strong effects at 30 mins peaked soon after the booster and the peak lasted til 12 am and noticeably felt the crash and comedown and by 2 - 2:30 am i would say thats when it was over. Hangover lasted a week of headache rough depression.

If people are acutally only getting 2-3 hours out of their mdma that is fucked up. 60 mg snorted will last me 2 hours due to roa and low dose but more intense than dropping.

a full 240-260 mg dose if i take it at once will have me going for 8 hours.

 

[Negi]

I even asked on reddit once what people though MDMA duration to be and many stated 2-3 hours.

Here's something highly relevant, a MDMA researcher actually had a poll on reddit about this:

I should note that the timeline in the image comes from a 2000 scientific paper where participants were given a dose of 125mg (that sci-hub is unfortunately failing to acquire at the moment).

 

[G_Chem]

Here's something highly relevant, a MDMA researcher actually had a poll on reddit about this:

I should note that the timeline in the image comes from a 2000 scientific paper (that sci-hub is unfortunately failing to acquire at the moment).

So in that poll most people are voting B or C (3-4 hours) as the “end of the roll” yet the timeline graph obviously shows 25% effects roughly still at 4 hours finally dropping to baseline at 6 hours much more in line with what it should be.

If anything that thread further proves me point, what many users say is the end of the roll doesn’t compute with the data.

IMO a roll ends 5-6 hours post dosing. I can’t understand based on both my own experiences and others around me how anyone could say they’re completely done 2-4 hours after.

-GC

 

[Negi]

If anything that thread further proves me point, what many users say is the end of the roll doesn’t compute with the data.

IMO a roll ends 5-6 hours post dosing. I can’t understand based on both my own experiences and others around me how anyone could say they’re completely done 2-4 hours after.

I think it's more of a terminology issue. What the poll is showing is that many people feel that they don't have to be back to 100% baseline for them to consider the "roll" part of the MDMA experience to be over. They only consider the peak effects to be the "roll". I often see the gradual return to baseline called the "comedown" after the roll, which is pretty confusing as the same label is used for "suicide Tuesday" and other days later after effects.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

a roll for me is the constant waves that keep coming back after the peak dying down each time they come back in intensity and length til im back to baseline.

 

[Negi]

This got me curious so I looked up some scientific papers. Starting with a MAPS overview paper:

Onset of MDMA effects occurs 30 to 60 minutes after administration (Cami et al. 2000; Mas et al. 1999), peak effects appear 75 to 120 minutes post-drug (Liechti et al. 2001b; Tancer and Johanson 2003), and duration of effects lasts from three to six hours (Harris et al. 2002; Liechti et al. 2001a; Vollenweider et al. 1998a), with most effects returning to baseline or near-baseline levels six hours after drug administration.

Then looking at some of the citations it had (and other work from the same researchers).

From Farré et al 2004

From Tancer and Johanson 2003

How the graphs were made:

Visual analog scales(VAS). The VAS consists of a series of seven horizontal 100-mm lines, each labeled with an adjective (stimulated, high, anxious, sedated, down, and hungry). Participants are instructed to place a mark on each line indicating how they feel at the moment from ‘not at all’ to ‘extremely’.

 

[psy997]

60 mg snorted will last me 2 hours due to roa and low dose but more intense than dropping.

I've said it before, but even with insufflation, I get a nice 3hr peak with good MDMA. It doesn't actually reduce the duration too much for me.

IMO a roll ends 5-6 hours post dosing. I can’t understand based on both my own experiences and others around me how anyone could say they’re completely done 2-4 hours after.

This. Anytime I've ever had good MDMA, the peak has been at least three hours, if not four, and I'm still feeling amazing at 6hrs after dosing, at which point i begin to comedown for the next 3-4hrs.

MDMA is not supposed to last only a few hours. The first time I ever noticed something was up with the MDMA I was taking, it was because of duration. I told my supplier, and he scoffed at my concern, considering that he had tested it.

 

[Negi]

This. Anytime I've ever had good MDMA, the peak has been at least three hours, if not four, and I'm still feeling amazing at 6hrs after dosing, at which point i begin to comedown for the next 3-4hrs.

What dose would you take for that, and do you normally have a redose?

 

[G_Chem]

This got me curious so I looked up some scientific papers. Starting with a MAPS overview paper:



Then looking at some of the citations it had (and other work from the same researchers).

From Farré et al 2004

From Tancer and Johanson 2003

How the graphs were made:

Any idea on the dosages used in the first picture of graphs?

Notice in your second how 75mg baselines at 4 hours, 110mg 5 hours and 145mg 6 hours. Very much in line with what I experience.

I personally always do the 120mg plus 40mg booster 60-90mins later deal, so now it makes sense why when looking at the graphs I could easily have a solid 5-6 hour experience plus a few hours residual.

Redosing does bring about more of the MDA metabolite too which adds even more duration compared to a single dose. Obviously too much on a redose or waiting too late isn’t a good thing with increased neurotoxicity but a small booster doesn’t seem to be an issue from what I’ve seen.

-GC

 

[pkt]

I feel the same way, despite access to pills that test positive as pure mdma and contain up to 250mg MDMA, its just not the same. I stopped doing mdma for years so it cant be the tolerance, i can do 250mg of pure crystal MDMA and i dont get the same effects i used to get from pills that according to pillreports contained between 80 and 120mg mdma, modern day MDMA just is not the same.....i prefer MDA because i feel like it gives me the same experience as it gave me 10 years ago. Something has changed in the chemistry.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

All the mdma i have done in the last few years has been dutch and its still really good. Smugglers bring in large amounts usually connected to the Chinese triads that operate here and then rich uni teens bringing in kg amounts through the darknet mail.

Usually its champagne or brown sometimes you get somebody who has done a proper acetone wash on it when it arrives here and its a nice white fluffy crystals very potent 100 mg is enough for a good roll. Brown stuff or any colored is usually quite a bit of mdp2p oil left over in it starting materials but still gives solid rolls.

Black mdma i avoid this always and see the reviews people give it its either potent or complete trash and tests for very low purity on mdma tests. No idea what sort of cuts or toxic shit is in the black mdma but it just looks nasty like your burnt your food in a oven overcooking it.


Since even modern dutch mdma is giving me magic effects and proper duration it raises the question on what is truly dutch mdma or just your dealer lying. But pretty much all worldwide mdma should be dutch since theres tons and tons of it. What labs are the ones selling subpar products?. Hollands organised crime is a very dangerous underworld and ruthless murders and torture chambers all vying for control. Dutch police shut down 26 drug labs the other month after cracking those criminal encrypted phone network.

MDA is alot of fun i preferred pills that had mda and mdma together for the geometric visuals that are quite vivid later into the roll. But MDA is harder to find now.

I feel sad for the people who are getting 2-3 hour duration total at that point its not even worth the hangover.

Australian made mdma in early and mid 2000's was really fucking good and some insane pills coming out of labs in Sydney.

 

[Negi]

Any idea on the dosages used in the first picture of graphs?

The first set of graphs is 100mg.

Notice in your second how 75mg baselines at 4 hours, 110mg 5 hours and 145mg 6 hours. Very much in line with what I experience.

I personally always do the 120mg plus 40mg booster 60-90mins later deal, so now it makes sense why when looking at the graphs I could easily have a solid 5-6 hour experience plus a few hours residual.

How long is your peak during that experience? Like I said, the poll shows that most people on reddit at least are only counting the more impressive parts of the peak as the duration of the "roll". When they say they have had a 2-3 3-4 hour "roll", it matches up with the duration of the peak experience from the MAPS paper and the 2000's era research it cites.

 

[G_Chem]

The first set of graphs is 100mg.



How long is your peak during that experience? Like I said, the poll shows that most people on reddit at least are only counting the more impressive parts of the peak as the duration of the "roll". When they say they have had a 2-3 hour "roll", it matches up with the duration of the peak experience from the MAPS paper and the 2000's era research it cites.

About 4 hours, also I interpret that poll post differently. He simply asked when people thought they’re roll was finished and gave hour options, he then added the graph later for context. It’s a pretty vague question I’ll admit but then again no one I know considers the end of the peak to be the end of the roll and definitely not 2-3 hours after.

This graph on Erowid describes my experience perfectly at the 1.5mg/kg dose.

Erowid MDMA Vault : Effects

Information about the mental and physical effects of MDMA.

erowid.org

At 4 hours the effects are still the same as hour 1, and baseline comes around 8 hours. I’ve had really good batches where I dose at 7pm initial and still feeling good 3-4am. Maybe not “peaking” but still residuals that make the night fun.

-GC

 

[Negi]

I interpret that poll post differently. He simply asked when people thought they’re roll was finished and gave hour options, he then added the graph later for context.

No, the graph was the main part of the question. That's why the different options are labelled with the letter positions on the graph. Also looking at the graph again I misread it in my other posts (and also missed the giant numbers added onto it). Most people had the length of the roll as 3-4 hours (with more choosing 4) rather than 2-3 hours.

 

[indigoaura]

I was discussing "mehDMA" with someone over on reddit and they mentioned once taking what felt like "meh" to them with a sizable group of people (5-10) who nearly all claimed to have a very enjoyable time but to the person didn't display any of the signs of "magic" MDMA. As I was glancing back through this thread I found that this seemed to have happened to others as well.



Has anyone else had this experience, where someone else takes a known "meh" batch and verbally confirms it is great while visual appearing to lack the classic symptoms of "magic" MDMA? I'm especially interested in if this was observed while you were on "mehDMA", while sober, or while on "magic" MDMA.

I have had a lot of experiences like this. I have observed it while sober myself, and I have observed it while on MehDMA. I have seen it in people who never did MDMA before, and in people with experience.

 

[indigoaura]

Also wanted to answer the question about smell. I have had meh product that smelled like safrole, and I have had meh product that had no smell at all. As for magic, most of the pills I remember smelled pretty strong, but it is possible there were some that did not smell. At the time, if something did not smell, you did not buy it (because people believed that was an indication it was weak or fake).

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

a roll for me is the constant waves that keep coming back after the peak dying down each time they come back in intensity and length til im back to baseline.

And that is exactly what you DON'T get with MehDMA. It's just up and over. Hence the reported 2 hour durations. If I'm still awake after that time I consider it a bonus...

 

[emkee_reinvented]

MDA is alot of fun i preferred pills that had mda and mdma together for the geometric visuals that are quite vivid later into the roll. But MDA is harder to find now.

They should, in a certain ratio, be in pills way more often. great synergie when these 2 combined. A tripple pill with MDEA seems perfect.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

And that is exactly what you DON'T get with MehDMA. It's just up and over. Hence the reported 2 hour durations. If I'm still awake after that time I consider it a bonus...

any notable difference in your (or anyone's?) comedown experience with meh and magic?