What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[nznity]

Aw...the girl was okay. I felt bad for her. She went into it wanting to have a great time, she did not expect that.

Yeah, the pills that they had sounded either totally bunk to me or some kind of speed. Obviously, the fact that she took 1/2 of one of those pills kind of ruins the experiment. However, to me, it just further supports the idea that something is not right with the product, because good MDMA should have had that girl blowing up and loving life NOT fixated on past trauma. There was no love or bliss, as Psy997 commented on.

I mean, come on people. If that was what our first MDMA experience was like we would not have been back for more.

You're right I was being a prick and talking with a lot of prejudice, idk what she's been thru and actual MDMA might even be beneficial for her. It pisses me off how alcohol is in every single store all over the world but good mdma is so hard to come by. I swear if mdma was legal people in general would be different, there would be so much less hate in the world and ppl would have such a blast every time they went out. Hopefully one day we'll see ecstasy stores, where they sold magic to people and everyone would be so happy ahhhh.... Utopia. mmm

 

[Phobos]

However, to me, it just further supports the idea that something is not right with the product, because good MDMA should have had that girl blowing up and loving life NOT fixated on past trauma. There was no love or bliss, as Psy997 commented on.

I mean, come on people. If that was what our first MDMA experience was like we would not have been back for more.

I have taken amazing MDMA with a few friends and had 2 troubled people do the same as that girl, talk about how their life sucked because of all the problems,... While everybody else was going running around smiling, laughing hysterically and being loved up and silly with saucer pupils and tight jaw.
The MDMA was mine coming from the same bag for everybody.
The sad guys, seen them roll like that in other occasions as well.

 

[G_Chem]

Yea the confessional end of things sounds familiar, actually helped facilitate similar experiences this past weekend through the use of MDMA and 5-MAPB. The thing that sticks out though is the utter lack of euphoria/empathy and zero pupil dilation.

One couple I gave it too had zero iris visible and basically couldn’t stop telling me how grateful and appreciative they were.

Now this is the magic of MDMA, not only do you relive the past trauma, but you do so in a moment of complete love, relaxation and acceptance. The experience outlined by Indigo just sounded like a reliving without the rest which facilitates the healing... One girl was able to finally tell her bf about her past rape that she hadn’t told another soul, in the act of doing this she felt so liberated and free for the first time. She felt safe and loved, allowing her space to open up about these things in a positive way. (Key is the positive outlook upon the past trauma, or current trauma for that matter. Something I’ll touch on in the other thread.)

Not that what this girl you speak of experienced had not been healing. It very well could have... But I think you guys are on to something here. Meth sounds like a real possibility given the sketchy Rolex presses which haven’t been legit in like a decade.

Btw I’ll be sharing my experience with this past weekend in a separate thread. Shit was pure magic last weekend and I’d do a disservice by not talking about it..

Love ya’ll
-GC

 

[epic11]

Yea the confessional end of things sounds familiar, actually helped facilitate similar experiences this past weekend through the use of MDMA and 5-MAPB. The thing that sticks out though is the utter lack of euphoria/empathy and zero pupil dilation.

One couple I gave it too had zero iris visible and basically couldn’t stop telling me how grateful and appreciative they were.

Now this is the magic of MDMA, not only do you relive the past trauma, but you do so in a moment of complete love, relaxation and acceptance. The experience outlined by Indigo just sounded like a reliving without the rest which facilitates the healing... One girl was able to finally tell her bf about her past rape that she hadn’t told another soul, in the act of doing this she felt so liberated and free for the first time. She felt safe and loved, allowing her space to open up about these things in a positive way. (Key is the positive outlook upon the past trauma, or current trauma for that matter. Something I’ll touch on in the other thread.)

Not that what this girl you speak of experienced had not been healing. It very well could have... But I think you guys are on to something here. Meth sounds like a real possibility given the sketchy Rolex presses which haven’t been legit in like a decade.

Btw I’ll be sharing my experience with this past weekend in a separate thread. Shit was pure magic last weekend and I’d do a disservice by not talking about it..

Love ya’ll
-GC

Good observations, minus the meth part. Its not meth, ive eaten meth once in a strong rave pill and this "mehdma" response is nothing like that. Mehdma basically would fool anyone who never felt what mdma was really like. Its sneaky. Its so damn close to the whole experience, that a lot of people probably think thats it.

to add to @indigoaura 's thoughts..... I will add that ive personally witnessed new rollers who have never rolled before take some of the "best" pills and mdma on the planet. With the same effect. Everything but the love. Somethings up. Brand new rollers, never touched the stuff before, they werent showing the over the top "HOLY CRAP THIS IS AMAZING" type response. No massive eye dilation either. Tried tested and true pure mdma. No cuts.

 

[G_Chem]

Oh also guys another note....

Over the weekend I took a quarter tab of a popular SoCal press (G6 Crew) as a booster to my normal amazing shit. If I was to listen to people on Reddit, these are supposed to be some of the best presses on the market, comparable to CP Dutch Presses.

As soon as I ate the quarter (estimated around 50mg) I noticed that the bitterness seemed different than all the other MDMA products I take. It was like more sour and similar to APB substances. The reagent tests matched MDMA identically, and I’m familiar enough testing APB’s to see the difference in reagent puddles.

Not long after eating the quarter I noticed a mongy somewhat spaced out state somewhat overshadowing the good MDMA I took earlier. It felt identical to what everyone’s bitching about, similar but not what I’m looking for...

The quarter dulled the rest of the night. I now understand what MehDMA is..

Thankfully this is not the usual for me. But damn I spent a premium on these shitty fucks, cost x2 as much as my local product and not nearly as good.

I’ll hang onto the 1 and 3/4 I have left for future research purposes. The difference in taste though was weird and these presses also went straight to black on Marquis.

Presses were Yellow G6 Piggy Banks.

-GC

 

[AutoTripper]

to add to @indigoaura 's thoughts..... I will add that ive personally witnessed new rollers who have never rolled before take some of the "best" pills and mdma on the planet. With the same effect. Everything but the love. Somethings up. Brand new rollers, never touched the stuff before, they werent showing the over the top "HOLY CRAP THIS IS AMAZING" type response. No massive eye dilation either. Tried tested and true pure mdma. No cuts.

My immediate thoughts on this I relate to the phenomenon of cannabis use which on the very first occasion in an individual's life- the experience can actually go completely over the head of the user.

My mum was an old school hippie back in the day and I grew up in a pot home of hippies who shared many tales and adages from the the hippie scene.

One of the first things I remember her telling me about drugs was how the first time you get stoned you don't actually get stoned. My mum described having this experience herself the first time she used cannabis which was completely different the second time and I think she observed it as a pretty common thing.

The first time I used cannabis myself I think this happenned to me actually I was age 17 having already been taking ecstasy and LSD for roughly one year.

I chewed up about 1.5 g of clean hash and the experience went completely over my head I wasn't consciously aware of what I was feeling but I was clearly stoned from my friends perspective and looking back afterwards because all I did was eat two boxes of apple pies and fall asleep lol!

My friend he was with me at the time commented that I was acting weird although I was just kind of sedated mainly.

When I saw my older peers who had given me a bit of hash who were longtime experienced cannabis users and they asked me "how did you get on with the blow?"

And I replied "it didn't do anything all I did was eat 2 boxes of apple pies and fall asleep".
My exact words, to which Paul replied exactly "Sounds to me like you got wrecked". Followed by chuckles around the room.

So I definitely experienced this phenomena where I experienced the drug fully but not consciously observing or appreciating or accurately appraising the extent or nature of the effects.

I know with MDMA there is this widespread misconception and belief that your first time will be the best and you will never experience that again my first time certainly wasn't my best but it was only half of a weak pill, maybe 40-50 mg MDMA tops in a half.

But I do think it is possible with any substance to kind of miss the experience the first time for various psychological reasons to do with perception and maybe expectations and just catching up with our mind and making sense of things retrospectively which is unnecessary the next time when everything is automatically more familiar to be instantly engaged with.

 

[Hilopsilo]

Someone getting emotional in a negative way on MDMA is not unheard of, has happened to me many times. It can simply force you to think about some stuff that might be otherwise too hard to think about AT ALL. Just because the MDMA makes you think about it doesn't necessarily mean its going to be pleasant, but it eases it just enough to talk about it.

Perfect example is veterans with PTSD, because the memories are so painful the MDMA might just barely provide enough "lubrication" to reflect on it whereas sober it wouldnt even be up for discussion, period.

Most of my rolls the comeup starts with some difficult reflection. Its often felt like I will NOT roll until I do just face it. Its why i think i experience a TON of anxiety the days/weeks leading up to a planned-roll. I dont get this same feeling about getting drunk, thats PURELY recreational. With MDMA, taking that capsule for me is like "welp, here we go, deep breath... it'll be ok"

MDMA I think makes people very emotional, not necessarily HAPPY in any situation. I had a friend get really inside his head on MDMA; he was unemployed at the time, everyone else he was with including me had just finished university and that was sort of the celebration, he never went to school and had just sort of been hanging out those years. He was feeling very "stuck" in life. The MDMA made him face this, and maybe he did need to think about this, about his future and get a reality check. For the first half of the roll he was pretty sad, but when he FINALLY was able to talk about with everyone else, all the negative crap fell away and the proper roll ensued. Maybe that was more beneficial/useful/dynamic of an experience that way?

On a side note, and i know this isnt my thread so maybe its not my place, but this has all drifted so far from any scientific discussion and to any onlooker it really just does look like burnt out ravers rambling about the good ol days... Does that deserve its own thread? I feel we need to keep the two separate if we want to be taken seriously

 

[PlayHard]

nice to see this topic is still alive and active. not been on here in awhile.

 

[epic11]

My immediate thoughts on this I relate to the phenomenon of cannabis use which on the very first occasion in an individual's life- the experience can actually go completely over the head of the user.

My mum was an old school hippie back in the day and I grew up in a pot home of hippies who shared many tales and adages from the the hippie scene.

One of the first things I remember her telling me about drugs was how the first time you get stoned you don't actually get stoned. My mum described having this experience herself the first time she used cannabis which was completely different the second time and I think she observed it as a pretty common thing.

The first time I used cannabis myself I think this happenned to me actually I was age 17 having already been taking ecstasy and LSD for roughly one year.

I chewed up about 1.5 g of clean hash and the experience went completely over my head I wasn't consciously aware of what I was feeling but I was clearly stoned from my friends perspective and looking back afterwards because all I did was eat two boxes of apple pies and fall asleep lol!

My friend he was with me at the time commented that I was acting weird although I was just kind of sedated mainly.

When I saw my older peers who had given me a bit of hash who were longtime experienced cannabis users and they asked me "how did you get on with the blow?"

And I replied "it didn't do anything all I did was eat 2 boxes of apple pies and fall asleep".
My exact words, to which Paul replied exactly "Sounds to me like you got wrecked". Followed by chuckles around the room.

So I definitely experienced this phenomena where I experienced the drug fully but not consciously observing or appreciating or accurately appraising the extent or nature of the effects.

I know with MDMA there is this widespread misconception and belief that your first time will be the best and you will never experience that again my first time certainly wasn't my best but it was only half of a weak pill, maybe 40-50 mg MDMA tops in a half.

But I do think it is possible with any substance to kind of miss the experience the first time for various psychological reasons to do with perception and maybe expectations and just catching up with our mind and making sense of things retrospectively which is unnecessary the next time when everything is automatically more familiar to be instantly engaged with.

I agree wit the phenomena. It took me about 6 weed smokes to ever "feel it" and about 5/6 attempts at "rolling" to ever truly get it either.

Oh also guys another note....

Over the weekend I took a quarter tab of a popular SoCal press (G6 Crew) as a booster to my normal amazing shit. If I was to listen to people on Reddit, these are supposed to be some of the best presses on the market, comparable to CP Dutch Presses.

As soon as I ate the quarter (estimated around 50mg) I noticed that the bitterness seemed different than all the other MDMA products I take. It was like more sour and similar to APB substances. The reagent tests matched MDMA identically, and I’m familiar enough testing APB’s to see the difference in reagent puddles.

Not long after eating the quarter I noticed a mongy somewhat spaced out state somewhat overshadowing the good MDMA I took earlier. It felt identical to what everyone’s bitching about, similar but not what I’m looking for...

The quarter dulled the rest of the night. I now understand what MehDMA is..

Thankfully this is not the usual for me. But damn I spent a premium on these shitty fucks, cost x2 as much as my local product and not nearly as good.

I’ll hang onto the 1 and 3/4 I have left for future research purposes. The difference in taste though was weird and these presses also went straight to black on Marquis.

Presses were Yellow G6 Piggy Banks.

-GC

There ya have it. We arent making this shit up. Does it have a very FAINT licorice smell? I notice meh-dma has a faint licorice smell and its also a slight chemical/gas smell. While good mdma smacks you in the face with black licorice smell thats undeniable.

 

[G_Chem]

^^Lol I never said you guys were.. In fact I’ve probably been in this thread longer than any advocating that there IS a difference.

The thing with me is although I was a believer, I’d never encountered MehDMA myself. Only once before this potentially, where I bought a Dutch press with a supposed 160+mg that didn’t do much when I gave it to someone else.

I find it interesting that it seems to be large scale pressers which the complaints are stemming from.

The one problem I still have with this whole argument, is just the wide differences in what people want to agree on as “good product.” I think this shows that this may also be down to opinion as well.

From day 1 I’ve been saying there’s differences batch to batch.. I’ve felt this myself. What I’m curious of is, to what extent is this MehDMA problem?.. I think it’s out there, but things like perma-tolerance/loss-of-magic, subjective opinion, set/setting, make getting the exact answer tricky.

I’ll concede once again though that I live in areas with supposedly good product, and that I may be a lucky one. I remember seeing one poster saying the only times he’s gotten good product since the 2010 drought has been in the areas I “hang out.” Even during the drought, my area still had good pills.

Im thinking an A/B purification on these presses may be in order to determine if this issue stems from impurities or not. Now that I finally got my hands on some MehDMA..

-GC

 

[AutoTripper]

Just one really quick point to make which I did mean to a while ago actually:

I did encounter a lot of "shit" pills. It was always like a completely different drug. It didn't matter how many you took you just never would come close to the same experience. Maybe it is related to the dilution and low dosage and possibly the way the binders and fillers affect the absorption etc.

And I was always very aware of distinct experiential differences between different batches of pills which I could never accept were down to dosage alone.

I mean this in regards to top quality MDMA pills not the rubbish ones I encountered.
I don't think we ever really thought about it deeply at all back then or questioned what made the rubbish pills so crap and effectively useless. Thousands on a desert island would be worthless.

But yes I have always been aware of a wide variation in quality from pill to pill, although very good pills were always around if you knew where to find them.

 

[Hilopsilo]

The one problem I still have with this whole argument, is just the wide differences in what people want to agree on as “good product.” I think this shows that this may also be down to opinion as well.

Exactly...

A good example is the comedown/after effects, MehDMA or not, I've never had even the slightest hangover from MDMA in the ~40 times i've rolled in the last 9 years. Just like how every time I take MDMA i swear im going to fucking actually die on the comeup, yet my girlfriend has no idea what im talking about and has never experienced that whatsoever. Or I have friends who don't have a fucked up comeup, but feel like death for 2 weeks afterward, or some unfortunately experience both. It varies too much and I don't think its a good metric to "appraising" the MDMA in question.

Its a powerful substance that effects people differently and language feels limited when trying to describe the experience.

There ya have it. We arent making this shit up. Does it have a very FAINT licorice smell? I notice meh-dma has a faint licorice smell and its also a slight chemical/gas smell. While good mdma smacks you in the face with black licorice smell thats undeniable.

I've got a bag of the same stuff in my desk drawer that made me realize some MDMA is really crappy, and that stuff absolutely reeeeeeeks of the black licorice/aniseed smell. It tested as perfectly good MDMA on reagent and spectrometers. But I have multiple friends who took 200-300mg of it and were disappointed, then 2 nights later had the same people had 100mg of the white/clear stuff that was 100% scentless and it was like their first time again. Both test so similarly a couple percentage points of MDMA couldn't make such a difference. Something is "missing" from the crappy stuff, its certainly MDMA (or has been discussed, something with the same molecular weight), but SOMETHING is wrong with it. I hold onto samples of both for future testing opportunities. The smelly crappy amber stuff without fail produces lackluster experiences in multiple settings and 30+ users

Before this happened, yeah, if I got MDMA that was brown/amber colored and smelled strongly of black licorice I'd think I hit the jackpot, and I have had MDMA like that was indeed good, but after encountering this stuff I don't think its the case. Afterall, the smell is coming from an impurity, a leftover from the production. I guarantee the stuff they're using for PTSD and clinical trials is nothing but a scentless white powder.

 

[indigoaura]

So, basically, we know very little at this point.

We do know that MDMA varies from batch to batch, despite being identified as MDMA by both reagent and spectrometer testing. We know that the variation is not tolerance, because it has been noted by new and experienced users across multiple experiments.

We also know that there are compounds which would share the same molecular weight and potentially be misidentified by GCMS testing.

We know that "magic" MDMA still exists and can be identified by users based on experience, and that these same users can experience the less than ideal effects of "MehDMA."

We know that there are no 100% rules in regards to color, smell, form etc.

We know that "MehDMA" does not appear to produce mydriasis, euphoria, or empathy even at high doses.

 

[sassyfrass]

mehdma is everywhwere, the only good molly ive had was from one source.
it came in both purple and brown chunks of crystal, and also in *brown sugar* form and Reaked (even lightly tasted) of rootbeer/sass.
it Produced immense euphoria, Closed eye colors, stoning intoxification and intensified all music at the 50-200mg range.

I only had marquis reagent at the time which quickly went black with no fizzing.

since then ive seen white, yellow, pink, black and grey crystal,
all of which passed every reagent test for MDMA.
They were much less potent and had less pupil dialation / visuals, felt less like a natural neurotransmitter and of a chemically feeling/taste.

Some made you puke, and your heart RACE. (probably from doing more to try and achieve the same effects.)


My theory, though not yet proven, is that what i first had was in fact MDA.
That could possibly be what everyone is missing comapred to the strong stimulant effects of MDMA.
Thoughts?

 

[TripSitterNZ]

mehdma is everywhwere, the only good molly ive had was from one source.
it came in both purple and brown chunks of crystal, and also in *brown sugar* form and Reaked (even lightly tasted) of rootbeer/sass.
it Produced immense euphoria, Closed eye colors, stoning intoxification and intensified all music at the 50-200mg range.

I only had marquis reagent at the time which quickly went black with no fizzing.

since then ive seen white, yellow, pink, black and grey crystal,
all of which passed every reagent test for MDMA.
They were much less potent and had less pupil dialation / visuals, felt less like a natural neurotransmitter and of a chemically feeling/taste.

Some made you puke, and your heart RACE. (probably from doing more to try and achieve the same effects.)


My theory, though not yet proven, is that what i first had was in fact MDA.
That could possibly be what everyone is missing comapred to the strong stimulant effects of MDMA.
Thoughts?

MDMA is acutally quite sedating MDA is more stimulating. Alot of ecasty pills had various stimulants added to them so you can acutally rave hard instead of just pure mdma where you might just wanna sit down and chill and vibe to the music

 

[indigoaura]

Hi Sassyfrass,

Welcome to the conversation. I think what you had first was probably what we are calling "magic" MDMA, and your other experiences are what we are referring to as "MehDMA." How long did your first experience last?

For me personally, I have sent magic MDMA to the lab and it was in fact MDMA and not MDA. I have also had pure MDA (sent that to a lab too), and it is not the same as a magic MDMA experience. It has less euphoria and more of a dopamine rush. Still very enjoyable. But, I don't think this is what everyone is experiencing.

 

[sassyfrass]

You're probably right. Dosing .1 at most at a time with 30-50mg redoses,
my experience would last all night long with subtle effects being felt the next morning,

and no hangover other than maybe a mild headache. Much easier going than say alcohol.

the recent experiences without the magic have really put me off rolling, even feeling lasting negative effects.
Perma tolerance seems unlikley as redosing the magic stuff would be amazing every time, even days in a row.

 

[indigoaura]

@sassyfrass Wish we had more concrete information for you. You are noticing the same things that we have been talking about here. There is a general consensus that something is wrong with some of the product that is currently circulating, but the product looks okay with testing. What we really need at this point is a more advanced lab we could send samples to, but we have not been able to find one yet. All the harm reduction labs just use standard GCMS testing, and we probably need more complex testing than that.

 

[sassyfrass]

Could it be chemists are strategically diluting and recrystallizing their rocks?
It sure makes sense from an economical standpoint.

Im also on the side of believing magic mdma is made with Safrole, being from a natural compound would make sense that it has a stronger affinity for our receptors.
it could be possible that new routes of syntheses procure an inferior product.

More research is needed, its sad that not many will experience the magic due to the current laws.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Could it be chemists are strategically diluting and recrystallizing their rocks?
It sure makes sense from an economical standpoint.

Im also on the side of believing magic mdma is made with Safrole, being from a natural compound would make sense that it has a stronger affinity for our receptors.
it could be possible that new routes of syntheses procure an inferior product.

More research is needed, its sad that not many will experience the magic due to the current laws.

This is not the case, the synthesis routes end up the same safrole hasen't been used for a long time. What is probably going on is more and more people setup shop and completely fuck up crucial steps heavily cut and put the product to the market. The actual amount of mdma in what people are using is probably very small just enough added to test for mdma on test kits.